Palmer Incorporated or whatever it's called.
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ARROW Season 3 |OT| Welcome to the New Age
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Palmer Incorporated or whatever it's called.
After that scene it showed the paper, it was a transfer of ownership of Palmer Technologies to her.
QuantumZebra
Member
Frank the Great
Banned
Ah, I see. Well, we might get Queen Consolidated back soon then.
So wait, Ray broke up with Felicity (after she'd mentally broken up with him) and gave her his company... and she's gonna give it back to Oliver?
I think we have a new beta ladies and gentlemen. Move aside, Tommy.
Frank the Great
Banned
She could just bring the old name back, and not necessarily give it back to Oliver to ruin.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Probably not all of Palmer Technologies. I'm guessing its just the former Queen Consolidated holdings. Which will probably be combined with Thea's Merlyn Global Group holdings.
SchrodingerC
Member
Woot! It took me forever to finish this season, but I finally made it to the finale.
Final verdict: Ehhh... it could have been better.
I mean, goddamn did Arrow get the shaft this season. Was it the writers, the network, the showrunners or did the creators want The Flash to run smoothly, but they ended up cannibalizing Arrow in the process? Or is it a combination of all the above? Whatever the reasons are I hope they sort their shit out for season 4, and for the love of everything they need to cut the relationship drama bullshit.
Final verdict: Ehhh... it could have been better.
I mean, goddamn did Arrow get the shaft this season. Was it the writers, the network, the showrunners or did the creators want The Flash to run smoothly, but they ended up cannibalizing Arrow in the process? Or is it a combination of all the above? Whatever the reasons are I hope they sort their shit out for season 4, and for the love of everything they need to cut the relationship drama bullshit.
BKatastrophe
Member
I'm assuming that Felicity and Oliver will come back to Starling after hearing about what happened to Ray. My guess is that's the cause.
Either that, or they get bored and realize they can't have a normal life.
When Felicity goes to give Ollie back his company, she looks up into his window and sees Oliver and Nyssa making out (though I'd prefer it if it was Oliver making out with Palmer for that added sting).
PhoncipleBone
Banned
me the entire time I was watching them hanging out:
And the problem is?
Yes because dealing with three shows will make it better when we saw a major decline with two shows. This is why I don't want a third show personally. It's not needed. They are over saturating the audience. They will learn.....hopefully.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Nah Flash had different writers. Arrow writers went to thick with the drama and plenty of good plot point but failed to execute properly.
Dealing with three shows? Berlanti Productions is already making three shows and a movie at the moment. Last year, while making Arrow Season 2 they were also making three. They aren't idiots, Berlanti isn't working with just enough staff to do one show. All the shows have a complete staff.
I was honestly wondering if Flash resulted in Arrow writers being pulled off the show. If that's not the case then it's even worse. At least in that scenario there is an excuse one can point to.
Wiktor
Member
I actually liked S3 quite a bit, but even I think it was sloppy. But if there's one biggest reason for that I would say Ray Palmer is the most likely culprist. Even without him the show is too densely packed with characters and what's worse almost all of them are in Team arrow now. Ray stole the time that could be used to deal with other characters and plots properly. He was the focus of most of bad romance drama and he also eat a lot of budget.
And all of that was done without any payoff. Ray didn't add anything positive to the show. So they wasted so much time and so much money on introducing a dude solely for the sake of spin-off.
If S3 of Arrow suffered because of other show then it was becuase of Legends of Tomorrow, not because of Flash.
MikeBreezy92
Member
The love triangle would've been fine if it wasn't dragged on for so long. Ray was actually the only piece of levity the show had. He was fun and interesting and contrasted with the rest of the cast.
If there is a culprit, it was too much focus on the romance, sloppy and contrived writing which even The Flash has a lot of, and character assassinations when it comes to Oliver and Malcolm. Romance could have work if they dialed it back a bit. Ra's could've been made tons more threatening. Malcolm's intentions should've been clearer to the audience. it just needed cleaning up.
Edit: And to add to that. Cap. Lance doing a man hunt on Oliver could've been done differently instead of stemming from Laruel and co not telling Lance. Maybe Lance finding out Oliver worked for Malcolm or idk. Just a lot of good plot points ruined by weird decisions.
Wiktor
Member
He's sympathetic, but he was completely and utterly useless. Just because he's funny doesn't change how much damage he dealth to the season. He contributed nothing worthwhile to the plot. And because he needed to be nice dude for the spin-off he couldn't even play a role of proper antagonis to Oliver, despite the fact that they set him up as rrival in business, romance and vigilantism. He didn't work well in any of those roles.
Compare him to Blood, which actually fulfilled exact same role in S2, as mid-tier obstacle before the big bad started to wreck havoc in the city. Blood actually was a believable threat and delivered good challenges to the team. Meanwhile with Ray they were too scared doing anything properly might people stop liking him and thus damage the spin-off
I don't think they assassinated either character and all of the other things would be fixed by removing Ray. No more heavy focus on romance and it would allow more screen time to actually develop Ra's plus deliver more kick-ass superheroic moments instead of wastefully seeing an Iron-Man knock-off being assambled for 18 episodes bit by bit .
To me Ray Palmer was the worst thing to ever happen to Arrow and I say that despite liking the character and being hyped what he will do on LoT. But putting him into Arrow was a terrible idea.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Ray's point was to show that he could be what Oliver felt like he couldn't be. He was charming, got the girl, actually could run a business, brilliant. He wasn't supposed to be a this huge rival to Oliver just a foil that ended in between them fighting for the first time and them working together for the first time. Ray was just a personification of the idea that Oliver could not be the Arrow and Oliver Queen, which is the theme of the entire season. Funnily enough Ray decides to fight crime because of his own reason and Oliver has to teach him the ropes of being a hero at one point aka someone he can trust to protect starling. Ray is pretty much Oliver who hasn't got through as much with the smarts and personality of Barry/Felicity. Ray was not useless by anymeans, his character arc just got cluttered with everyone Else's.
BKatastrophe
Member
Truth
I basically agree. I think Ray is a good character, but he did not fit within the show. I don't think he's nearly as damaging as you say, and I think he had purpose to some degree, but if anything is an example of the show's cast becoming overstuffed or bloated, Ray is that example.
Also, I miss Blood.
MikeBreezy92
Member
I do just love how as soon as Roy becomes like the best character in the show....poof he's gone...at least we got Thea :'(
BKatastrophe
Member
It's a super bummer.
And yes, we finally have Thea becoming the character she should be. Which is great, because I've always liked Thea (yes, even S1 Thea). Now if only the writers can stop having all the men in the show manipulate her, it would be perfect!
MikeBreezy92
Member
Honestly all the drama this season has been wrapped up so besides
Malcolm being Ra's
Gonna rewatch the season as soon as I can though.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Or they didn't use him much because they didn't want people to get invested in the character maybe?
Its hard not to get invested in S3 Roy though
FLIPSBKatastrophe
Member
I'm just talking about how rather...I don't want to say "misogynistic," but that's what's coming to mind...Thea's character arc has been throughout the show. Her entire character arc has been guided by men and has essentially been men telling her what to do. This either ends poorly for her, or ends up pushing her in the right direction, but it's almost always men telling her "go here" and she does, for better or worse. It's a complete mockery of an attempt to create a strong female character, which sucks because, in my opinion, she clearly has the presence of one. She has the capability to be one, especially now because of her becoming Speedy/Red Arrow. Her arc reeks of her journey to becoming that strong female character, but when you look at it, it's really weak. It's not really driven totally by her, and that's what makes it a shitty arc in reality.
It has the shell of a good arc, but what's inside the shell is clearly the opposite.
As soon as they completed his early character arc in this season (the murdering of the cop and the nightmares), he just existed for the rest of the show. It was really weird. He had a couple cool action and character moments, but otherwise he was just there. It bummed me out hard.
Or they didn't use him much because they didn't want people to get invested in the character maybe?
Its hard not to get invested in S3 Roy though
They could have done a lot of things different with Roy, including possibly getting an actor that would stay around longer. S3 Roy was a waste and a disappointment after so much build up.
MHWilliams
Member
Honestly, I'm looking forward to seeing what the Black Canary, Speedy, Diggle, Det. Chesthair team do while Oliver is off having island sex.
A good job by all accounts. They had the city protected when Oliver was "dead" and when Oliver joined the LOA. Say what you want about the show, but they have put across that things will be okay without Oliver effectively. Now it'd be better with him, but the city won't explode if he isn't there.
BKatastrophe
Member
Just wanted to fix that, to remind everyone who Diggle will be.
That's not the Martian Manhunter...
How'd you know?
BKatastrophe
Member
I know, in our heart of hearts, we'd all love for Diggle to be John Stewart or J'onn J'onzz.
But Guardian is his actual destiny. It's actually perfect.
And that's the sad part. I've never found Guardian to be particularly interesting, and the fact that they tried to make him a main character in Young Justice will never cease to amaze me.
MikeBreezy92
Member
Just give Diggle a nice ski mask and call it a day...
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Cops will gun him down then
Wiktor
Member
I think they should do it with more characters. Roy's arc was much more satysfing than Laurel and Thea this season. Precisely because they doubled down on him and got everything through in short burts. And then just let hin be cool.
There's really too many characters in this show. When you spread development of side characters into a big portion of the season it gets muddied and lacks the punch. Oliver might handle that because he's the lead, but the rest of characters need to have 1-2 episodes focused on their growth and then move into the background. Generally there shouldn't be more than one drama sub-story per one episode
SchrodingerC
Member
I still have a slim hope Diggle eventually might be John Stewart, but he'll probably forever be Black Driver(aka best hero).
Wiktor
Member
He would need to move to a new show then, though.
MikeBreezy92
Member
That too many characters thing is no excuse when you have 22/23 episodes.
Yes, why not. And actually this would give GL a interesting twist, because he would be a GL, a member of Argus and a friend to the other heroes and had to juggle those three, their ideals and his own all the time.
Well Colton outside of some guest appearances every once in a blue moon isn't on the show anymore so it shouldn't really play any kind of a factor. Where has it been said they're dating?
Wiktor
Member
22/23 episodes doesn't change there is only 42 minutes per week. If you try to cram everybody's piece into those nobod will be handled in satisfying way.
Long seasons however mean you can actually make episode that focus on specific side character, without worrying that you will run out of time for the rest of the cast in the season as a whole.of course, those episodes need to be good to make it work. Diggle was perfect example this season. His first ep (Colto Maltese) was bad. Sure, the focus was on him in much bigger way than before, but it didn't do anything to really advance his character, or move plot forward. Meanwhile Suicide Squad gave him a chance to shine and by contrasting him with Deadshot it showed how much better at being a good human being Diggle is.
Wiktor
Member
Can CW handle GL though? I mean..Flash proved they could do CG heavy show, but GL is on whole different level. In couple years the tech will probably advance enough to allow it, but for now? Maybe on CBS,but I just don't see it on CW.
SchrodingerC
Member
I doubt CW has the budget to do a GL show. They could possibly do it with limiting his ring use, but that wouldn't make a very interesting GL show, and he has to take a trip to space at least once to meet his friends and the council.
A separate channel would be the better choice. (Kinda ruining John 'Diggle' Stewart in the process...)
is that still the same rumour because they are so close, or has there been a more real announcement? It has to be a bit more concrete to offset the older rumour of him being gay.
He is Rip Hunter, he is the most important of all!
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Like Jar-Jar in TPM.
BKatastrophe
Member
Roy's arc was satisfying because it was closure for all the previous seasons. It was satisfying because it was the end and culmination to his character as a whole on the show.
Laurel and Thea are continually developing characters, and to that end I feel their arcs were just as satisfying. Laurel's arc sucked because they made her lie the whole time, which in reality was strictly because (at least this is my guess) they needed Lance to turn on Oliver in order to make the end of the season work (Ra's destroying Oliver's life). They didn't know how to do that, so they decided to have Laurel lie to him for 2/3 of the season, which is terrible writing honestly.
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