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[Alexios]

Facts. Saturn has way more great games in a diverse range of genres, arcade or longform, than most folks ever played on systems with the best attach rates (even counting rentals). Trolls who harp on WipEout XL not being as good as on PS (despite a larger draw distance, so similar to the Tomb Raider differences between the two systems) somehow don't have a problem with games that perform similarly or worse on PS/N64 because then it's somehow worth it to play them, it's only when a game on Saturn isn't 60fps that it's so important it becomes unplayable and it doesn't count

Noone said it's as powerful as PlayStation/N64 (in 3D) but it wasn't a gen behind or bad either.

Oh wow, out of the 6 3D action heavy titles here half are actually 60 fps! No way, Saturn sucks!

Saturn can't do lighting, don't see games like PDS (and the other half above) & think different!

Oh noes, why don't all games use pure polygons like on PS to be so much better than on Saturn?!

Who cares if a game's moving skies, water, flat ground or whatever isn't true polygons but uses other parts of the hardware? How stupid would it be to render it with polygons just to appease that thinking when it looks so great in many games using it correctly/artistically? Just earlier someone posted wireframe shots of how Tekken 3's flat 2D backgrounds actually use polygons when doing a similar effect years earlier on Saturn with VF2 and DOA (in all cases because neither Saturn nor PS could have the arcade full 3D stages) or later with Fighters Megamix was done with VDP2, so what when results are similar? If anything it means the PS was less efficient in that, having to use all those polygons just to have a 2D background that won't distort to hell and back as the camera moves or whatever. Of course at the same time, somehow they're not actually able to also appreciate Duke Nukem 3D more on Saturn for not using the essentially 2D build engine but Lobotomy's Slavedriver 3D engine instead. Or hate on PlayStation's great 2D like SOTN for using polygons instead of real 2D or whatever. Or hating RE 1-3, FFVII-IX, etc., lol, only Saturn is lame for using 2D with 3D.
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PS: Quake II on PlayStation ranges between < 15 & > 40 fps and is never locked, it's uncapped as situations vary from looking at walls to encounters. It's hardly stable or consistent but to some (and DF) it's an incredible impossible port as the inconsistent/low fps yet great games on Saturn suck

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[nkarafo]

What's the deal with the red-ish colors in some Saturn games when you put them side by side with PS1 versions?

I see this in the Tomb Raider comparison. It's like the Saturn version has some red filter. It doesn't look good. Same thing happens with Powerslave. The PS1 version has more natural colors while in the Saturn version everything looks more... red.

 

[Dacvak]

Kinda wild how many people voted for Saturn. Don’t get me wrong, I think the Saturn is one of the most underrated consoles of all time. But I can name like 10 N64 games off the top of my head that are better than 99.9% of Saturn games.

 

[snapdragon]

Kinda wild how many people voted for Saturn. Don’t get me wrong, I think the Saturn is one of the most underrated consoles of all time. But I can name like 10 N64 games off the top of my head that are better than 99.9% of Saturn games.

I can name like 10 n64 games that are better than 99% of dreamcast, ps2, GameCube, wii, ps3, ps4, 360, Xbox one games etc

It's just that the library of the console wasn't diverse at all and out of the 10-15 excellent mainly first party games there isn't much else on the system, it had truly horrendous third party support, probably the worst on any major platform

350 games in 6 years is crazy

 

[HogIsland]

This is honestly a crazy comparison. Saturn was a flop out the gate and N64 had some of the best games of all time. I prefer it to PS1 even. Saturn is easily the worst Sega console and no Sega console is a classic.

 

[BlackTron]

This is honestly a crazy comparison. Saturn was a flop out the gate and N64 had some of the best games of all time. I prefer it to PS1 even. Saturn is easily the worst Sega console and no Sega console is a classic.

C'mon, not even Genesis?

 

[HogIsland]

C'mon, not even Genesis?

Genesis has the best case, but SNES was so much better it's hard for me to say Genesis is a classic.

 

[VeganElduderino]

Mario 64 and Resident evil and 2 were the best game of that era ! I loved my Saturn because I was on team Sega , but when I look back today, the N64 was the better system , Mario 64 , wave race 64 , Diddy Kong racing , Golden eye etc
Saturn had Virtua Fighter 2 , Daytona, Panzer dragoon

 

[snapdragon]

This is honestly a crazy comparison. Saturn was a flop out the gate and N64 had some of the best games of all time. I prefer it to PS1 even. Saturn is easily the worst Sega console and no Sega console is a classic.

1. The gamecube was a flop and its a phenomenal system. the saturn objectively had much better third party support than the n64 and the first party games from sega while not as high quality as Nintendos were still solid

The saturn has a much larger and diverse library than the n64 and many of the greatest games of that generation that are commonly regarded as Playstation classics were also on the saturn.

The Sega saturn had a monstrous attachment rate of 16-1 for a reason.

2. And as for no sega console being a classic, I agree with you completely for the saturn, it was obliterated in every region outside of Japan (the Saturn's success in Japan is also a bit overstated, from 94-96 the saturn outsold the ps1 2-1 however after FF7 and the premature unnecessary killing of the saturn despite the system still being profitable the saturn decline swiftly in late 97 and onwards) and held 1% of the US home console market in 98, it doesn't matter how many solid games were on the system, it's just impossible for any of them to find mass appeal on a dead console.

The dreamcast I also slightly agree with but the system has a large cult following, tons of presence in emulation and homebrew and anyone even remotely knowledgeable about the gaming industry knew what the dreamcast was and the story of the consoles failure. The dreamcast, unlike the saturn failed solely due to sega not being able to financially hold out until the system could turn a profit, the consoles attachment rates (8-1 by early 2001) and sale rates of dreamcast units were better than those of the gamecube and even xbox (9 million units in 2 years with one of those being in Japan where the dreamcast performed poorly while the Xbox/GC sold 20-25 million in 6 years)

As for the genesis I would love to have what you're smoking, the genesis wiped the floor with the snes in Europe and SA and wouldve beaten the snes in general if sega didnt drop support for a still semi relevant and profitable console in 95. It had legendary advertisement, and there is tons of 2000's/ late 90's media showing kids playing with the sega genesis or mentioning how they grew up with the genesis. Also it's games were ported onto every post dreamcast relavant game console you can think of and one of the most popular characters in fiction was the consoles/companies new mascot during that time period.

 

[HogIsland]

Lol GameCube is not a phenomenal system.

 

[VeganElduderino]

Lol GameCube is not a phenomenal system.

it sure is!

 

[Jinzo Prime]

One of these systems has the highest rated game of all time and the other one doesn't so....

 

[Come On Tars]

You CANT be cereal

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I’ve probably come across as hating Sega and the Saturn, far from it. It was my first 5th gen console and my introduction to 3D, and I absolutely loved the following…

NiGHTS: into Dreams
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Sega Rally
Virtua Fighter 2
Saturn Bomberman

…the problem was that outside of this there wasn’t much that I fancied on the console, all the big games were mainly arcade ports. What I really craved was more games like Tomb Raider and Resident Evil, as soon as I learned their sequels wouldn’t be coming to Saturn I (and my one Saturn owning friend) jumped ship.

Looking back there’s no games I’d regard as classics while the N64 had Mario 64, Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask.

If I compare the top 10 games from each then N64 wins, but the rest of the library is quite shallow for me even compared to the meagre UK Saturn lineup.

 

[snapdragon]

Lol GameCube is not a phenomenal system.

Ok

 

[BlackTron]

Genesis has the best case, but SNES was so much better it's hard for me to say Genesis is a classic.

It really depended on what type of games you were into. If you leaned arcadey, Sega. If you leaned RPG, Nintendo. (In which case you'd probably also like PS1 over N64). I don't think it made such stiff competition for SNES for no reason. Peak console wars.

 

[Alexios]

It really depended on what type of games you were into. If you leaned arcadey, Sega. If you leaned RPG, Nintendo. (In which case you'd probably also like PS1 over N64). I don't think it made such stiff competition for SNES for no reason. Peak console wars.

Eh, Saturn has more RPGs (and adjacent genres like SRPG, dungeon crawlers etc.) than N64. Even if you only count the measly western offerings like Shining the Holy Ark, Dragon Force, Shining Force 3, Dark Savior, Mystaria, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Albert Odyssey etc., of course way more with Japan.

 

[cireza]

I doubt Core would be able to hide Saturn’s pop in with darkness second time around

There are many games on Saturn that have proper, progressive fade-in of scenery in the distance. You don't need to hide it, you can simply implement such a solution. It would have only become more and more common as years pass. Remember : developers had to code every feature like this back then.

NiGHTS: into Dreams
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Sega Rally
Virtua Fighter 2
Saturn Bomberman

…the problem was that outside of this there wasn’t much that I fancied on the console

Tell me you don't know anything about the Saturn without telling me you don't know anything about the Saturn.

 

[BlackTron]

Eh, Saturn has more RPGs (and adjacent genres like SRPG, dungeon crawlers etc.) than N64. Even if you only count the measly western offerings like Shining the Holy Ark, Dragon Force, Shining Force 3, Dark Savior, Mystaria, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Albert Odyssey etc., of course way more with Japan.

We were talking about Genesis v SNES not Saturn v All. He likes N64 better than PS1 so I was just pointing out one reason a SNES fan might like PS1 better, despite that he thinks Genesis "isn't classic" next to SNES -it depends on the game preferences.

 

[cireza]

If you leaned arcadey, Sega. If you leaned RPG, Nintendo.

There were just as much RPGs released in the West on MegaDrive/Mega-CD than on SNES.

And in Europe, there were many more on MegaDrive than on SNES. Because Western support on SNES was utter shit, while SEGA were localizing the vast majority of their RPGs.

I always find it funny people citing SNES as the console for RPG while Nintendo didn't do shit for the genre, while SEGA were the only console manufacturer really active about it and developing a lot of games in this genre during the 16 bits era. Just shows the level of misinformation due to emulation and fan translated projects.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

There are many games on Saturn that have proper, progressive fade-in of scenery in the distance. You don't need to hide it, you can simply implement such a solution. It would have only become more and more common as years pass. Remember : developers had to code every feature like this back then.


Tell me you don't know anything about the Saturn without telling me you don't know anything about the Saturn.

I see no issue there, these are still regarded by most as the best games for the Saturn.

 

[HogIsland]

it sure is!

If gamecube is "phenomenal" then PS2 created the universe and Xbox Duke is Jesus Christ.

 

[lordrand11]

The Saturn was wonderful for the imports and single player games, just like the PSX. Moving to multiplayer N64 hands down had it beat.

 

[BlackTron]

There were just as much RPGs released in the West on MegaDrive/Mega-CD than on SNES.

And in Europe, there were many more on MegaDrive than on SNES. Because Western support on SNES was utter shit, while SEGA were localizing the vast majority of their RPGs.

I always find it funny people citing SNES as the console for RPG while Nintendo didn't do shit for the genre, while SEGA were the only console manufacturer really active about it and developing a lot of games in this genre during the 16 bits era. Just shows the level of misinformation due to emulation and fan translated projects.

Never said G/MD had no RPGs. Just that if you leaned RPG, SNES was more must-have. Thank Squaresoft. I think it's also true G/MD was more well known for arcadey and sports games, despite that my single favorite arcade game is on SNES (Turtles).

I had both and remember what kinds of games were popular and the general vibe around both consoles. As a kid in the US lol. I'm neither influenced by nor spreading any misinformation.

 

[Futaleufu]

Easily Saturn because it has great ports of arcade games.

 

[cireza]

Just that if you leaned RPG, SNES was more must-have.

Well this I totally disagree with. If you preferred adventure/RPG games, MegaDrive was just as interesting, and in my opinion, much more interesting that SNES.

MegaDrive was also perfectly well known for adventure games. These games were important releases, a bit expensive, with complete manuals/solutions/hint books, and also advertisement. In France, I can tell you that the MegaDrive was the way to go for adventure games.

We even got a guide like this covering many of the great games the MegaDrive got and many were translated into French too (all 4 games largely covered in the book were translated in French).
guide

 

[BlackTron]

Well this I totally disagree with.

We can make a case whether it was deserved or not, but in real life SNES had a huge reputation for its RPG games. It's just how I remember things. I didn't even play sports games and I could tell you Sega had a reputation for those. Possibly the number of "nerdy" dungeon crawlers may have been somewhat downplayed (in this market) to lean into the "cool" or (allegedly) more mature vibe of Sega compared to the toyish SNES which seemed done consciously...

 

[SpiceRacz]

This is honestly a crazy comparison. Saturn was a flop out the gate and N64 had some of the best games of all time. I prefer it to PS1 even. Saturn is easily the worst Sega console and no Sega console is a classic.

Mario 64 is my favorite game of all time, but that doesn’t make the console better than Saturn. If you said the best games on 64 are better than anything on Saturn, I would agree. Top to bottom though, Saturn has a better library.

I think some of the people in here forget how drip fed we were with good games on N64 back in the day. Seemed like I was constantly waiting for the next big N64 release while my friends & family with Saturn, and Playstation especially, had a steady flow of stuff coming out year round.

 

[Fat Frog]

Let's make together a VS in all game categories and some folks will understand why Saturn is superior...

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Let's make together a VS in all game categories and some folks will understand why Saturn is superior...

Platformer
Mario 64 or Banjo vs Er… Bug?

Adventure
Ocarina of Time vs Tomb Raider

First person shooter
Goldeneye vs Quake

Fighting
Smash Bros vs Virtua Fighter 2

Racing
Mario Kart 64 vs Sega Rally

Sport
International Superstar Soccer vs Worldwide Soccer

RPG
vs Panzer Dragoon Saga

Puzzle
Wetrix vs Bust a Move 2

Flight combat
Star fox 64 vs Panzer Dragoon Zwei

 

[HogIsland]

Mario 64 is my favorite game of all time, but that doesn’t make the console better than Saturn. If you said the best games on 64 are better than anything on Saturn, I would agree. Top to bottom though, Saturn has a better library.

I think some of the people in here forget how drip fed we were with good games on N64 back in the day. Seemed like I was constantly waiting for the next big N64 release while my friends & family with Saturn, and Playstation especially, had a steady flow of stuff coming out year round.

N64 still trounces Saturn just as a platform. 4 controller inputs was a great move, and it paid off with lots of generation-defining 4-player split screen games like Goldeneye, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, etc. When you say that people forget this or that bad thing about N64, I wonder what world you were living in where Saturn wasn't a complete joke and non-factor basically from day-1 on.

A pro-saturn person in this thread listed "good imports" as the best thing about the Saturn which tells you everything you need to know. I would place "easily hackable" above that as a feature.

 

[Diatribe1974]

I'd moved on from carts to cds when the N64 came out. To me, Nintendo did all of its games a horrible injustice by limiting things to carts. With my region cart, I could do imports and local releases with my Saturn., sure I'd not know squat for what was being said. Didn't care, shooters were awesome.

 

[Parazels]

N64 still trounces Saturn just as a platform. 4 controller inputs was a great move, and it paid off with lots of generation-defining 4-player split screen games...

Didn't those games run at 10 fps in the split screen mode?

 

[HogIsland]

Didn't those games run at 10 fps in the split screen mode?

nobody gave a fuck what framerate goldeneye ran at. it was worth the price of the n64 alone.

 

[Parazels]

nobody gave a fuck what framerate goldeneye ran at. it was worth the price of the n64 alone.

Nevertheless basic frame rates had existed at the time (25/30 and 50/60).
So Rare ignored these rules and released a game, that couldn't run well.

 

[cireza]

nobody gave a fuck what framerate goldeneye ran at. it was worth the price of the n64 alone.

True. It was all about making the best out of the frame you've got.