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[Bernkastel]

First off, anyone who says the 1X is "significantly better" instantly discredits themselves, and can no longer be taken seriously. Tflops isn't a meaningful metric or any kind of good measure for performance. 14% is negligible as it is. Diminishing returns cuts even more into that negligible 14%.

Its amazing how some keep trying to play up that 14% as some "huge difference," yet have the nerve to ignore or downplay a 129% advantage for the PS5 (ssds)

Apparently 14% is now greater then 129%.

Your post was a very bad disingenuous post in bad faith. That "Guerilla Games guy" hasn't worked at Guerilla in 20 years. Hes not even a game developer currently. And he literally has a partnership with Microsoft (and he follows Timdog on Twitter). So he is about as untrustworthy and unreliable of a source as you can ever get lol

But It's funny how that 1 account suddenly means more then the countless actual real developers all praising the PS5 more. Talk about desperately grapsing at straws.

You know, this guy is neither Sony 1st party nor ex-1st party

I've never seen anyone call the 1X that. That's just facts

Neither is this guy 1st party or ex-1st party

Youre trying to create your own false narratives. You are literally pushing FUD. The fact is, developers are far more excited for PS5, and theres a reason why.

And btw, speaking in regards to the other testimonials, If You want to discount the words of Sony 1st party developers, even though they are some of the greatest minds in gaming and among some of the greatest developers in gaming, then discard any and all opinions from xbox developers.

Sony 1st parties make GOTY games, so their opinions matter the most you could say

The fact that Xbox developers aren't even that excited about Xbox Hardward say something very profound in itself. Because 1x is just more of the same. All they do is tow the company line, the generic "more powerful then PS5" spiel. Meanwhile Sony developers are giddy with excitement over PS5 (and 3rd party developers as well). That says something.

Whats funnier is, people are saying "just accept reality about the tflop difference"

Yet its these people who have the most difficult time accepting the reality that the PS5 is the more talked about system, and the better designed more efficient system that has developers much more excited

Its those people who cant accept the reality that the PS5 has it's own advantages

They need to start with accepting those realities.

No one is denying a 14% difference. What most reasonable people are saying is that that difference doesnt matter and that tflops arent relevant

First off, anyone who says the 1X is "significantly better" instantly discredits themselves, and can no longer be taken seriously. Tflops isn't a meaningful metric or any kind of good measure for performance. 14% is negligible as it is. Diminishing returns cuts even more into that negligible 14%.

Its amazing how some keep trying to play up that 14% as some "huge difference," yet have the nerve to ignore or downplay a 129% advantage for the PS5 (ssds)

Apparently 14% is now greater then 129%.

Because a difference in GPU is more important than a difference in SSD speeds. SSD speeds are a worse metric than Teraflops. So, if he is saying that XSX is significantly better he cant be taken seriously ? And somehow SSD speed differences scale like GPU power ? This is a new low for Neogaf. When said significantly better he meant the overall box. And the fact he has never worked for Xbox makes him more credible than Ready at Dawn head, who is part of the Sony devs circlejerk. 14% vs 129% is probably the lowest this place will get.

Your post was a very bad disingenuous post in bad faith. That "Guerilla Games guy" hasn't worked at Guerilla in 20 years. Hes not even a game developer currently. And he literally has a partnership with Microsoft (and he follows Timdog on Twitter). So he is about as untrustworthy and unreliable of a source as you can ever get lol

But It's funny how that 1 account suddenly means more then the countless actual real developers all praising the PS5 more. Talk about desperately grapsing at straws.

You know, this guy is neither Sony 1st party nor ex-1st party

I've never seen anyone call the 1X that. That's just facts

Neither is this guy 1st party or ex-1st party

Youre trying to create your own false narratives. You are literally pushing FUD. The fact is, developers are far more excited for PS5, and theres a reason why.

And btw, speaking in regards to the other testimonials, If You want to discount the words of Sony 1st party developers, even though they are some of the greatest minds in gaming and among some of the greatest developers in gaming, then discard any and all opinions from xbox developers.

Sony 1st parties make GOTY games, so their opinions matter the most you could say

The fact that Xbox developers aren't even that excited about Xbox Hardward say something very profound in itself. Because 1x is just more of the same. All they do is tow the company line, the generic "more powerful then PS5" spiel. Meanwhile Sony developers are giddy with excitement over PS5 (and 3rd party developers as well). That says something.

Whats funnier is, people are saying "just accept reality about the tflop difference"

Yet its these people who have the most difficult time accepting the reality that the PS5 is the more talked about system, and the better designed more efficient system that has developers much more excited

Its those people who cant accept the reality that the PS5 has it's own advantages

They need to start with accepting those realities.

No one is denying a 14% difference. What most reasonable people are saying is that that difference doesnt matter and that tflops arent relevant

So, apparently he somehow has a connection to MS, but not Ready at Dawn which has always been a second party Sony dev formed of ex-Naughty Dog devs?
If you are gonna post a random indie dev then so will I(and people hate me for posting Louise Kirby's tweets)


I am not creating a narrative. There are people praising from both the sides. You cant deny one side questioning their credibility.

 

[ZywyPL]

and what rendering resolution do to texture details ?

At some point you need higher resolution to show those details. But PS5 being 4x stronger than PS4 will most likely nave no issues hitting 4K.

 

[Psykodad]

At some point you need higher resolution to show those details. But PS5 being 4x stronger than PS4 will most likely nave no issues hitting 4K.

Sony could always go for checkerboarding, because in practice the difference between CB and native 4K is neglectible.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Because a difference in GPU is more important than a difference in SSD speeds. SSD speeds are a worse metric than Teraflops. So, if he is saying that XSX is significantly better he cant be taken seriously ? And somehow SSD speed differences scale like GPU power ? This is a new low for Neogaf. When said significantly better he meant the overall box. And the fact he has never worked for Xbox makes him more credible than Ready at Dawn head, who is part of the Sony devs circlejerk. 14% vs 129% is probably the lowest this place will get.


So, apparently he somehow has a connection to MS, but not Ready at Dawn which has always been a second party Sony dev formed of ex-Naughty Dog devs?
If you are gonna post a random indie dev then so will I(and people hate me for posting Louise Kirby's tweets)


I am not creating a narrative. There are people praising from both the sides. You cant deny one side questioning their credibility.

You are trying to create a narrative (while posting MS Xbox PR in any thread you can and overhype anything announced as the first coming and only possible on glorious XSX),
nobody is saying you are creating one.

The Sony devs circlejerk comment is just the cherry on top.

 

[Neofire]

You are trying to create a narrative (and posts MS Xbox PR in any thread you can and overhype anything announced as the first coming and only possible on glorious XSX),
nobody is saying you are creating one.

The Sony devs circlejerk comment is just the cherry on top.

How can anyone say she is "trying to" when she already has. Look at the post history lol.

Hell looking at this dev history, they are trying desperately to be on team Xbox so even his tweet is bias. Only two games under their belt, yeah I think I'll trust actual reputable developers.

 

[Panajev2001a]

How can anyone say she is "trying to" when she already has. Look at the post history lol.

She is trying to create it, but not succeeding at it... actually, utterly failing at that in my opinion.
She is trying to create this (false console war dream) narrative and it is so overtly biased not to take hold luckily.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

First off, anyone who says the 1X is "significantly better" instantly discredits themselves, and can no longer be taken seriously. Tflops isn't a meaningful metric or any kind of good measure for performance. 14% is negligible as it is. Diminishing returns cuts even more into that negligible 14%.

Its amazing how some keep trying to play up that 14% as some "huge difference," yet have the nerve to ignore or downplay a 129% advantage for the PS5 (ssds)

Apparently 14% is now greater then 129%.

Your post was a very bad disingenuous post in bad faith. That "Guerilla Games guy" hasn't worked at Guerilla in 20 years. Hes not even a game developer currently. And he literally has a partnership with Microsoft (and he follows Timdog on Twitter). So he is about as untrustworthy and unreliable of a source as you can ever get lol

But It's funny how that 1 account suddenly means more then the countless actual real developers all praising the PS5 more. Talk about desperately grapsing at straws.

You know, this guy is neither Sony 1st party nor ex-1st party

I've never seen anyone call the 1X that. That's just facts

Neither is this guy 1st party or ex-1st party

Youre trying to create your own false narratives. You are literally pushing FUD. The fact is, developers are far more excited for PS5, and theres a reason why.

And btw, speaking in regards to the other testimonials, If You want to discount the words of Sony 1st party developers, even though they are some of the greatest minds in gaming and among some of the greatest developers in gaming, then discard any and all opinions from xbox developers.

Sony 1st parties make GOTY games, so their opinions matter the most you could say

The fact that Xbox developers aren't even that excited about Xbox Hardward say something very profound in itself. Because 1x is just more of the same. All they do is tow the company line, the generic "more powerful then PS5" spiel. Meanwhile Sony developers are giddy with excitement over PS5 (and 3rd party developers as well). That says something.

Whats funnier is, people are saying "just accept reality about the tflop difference"

Yet its these people who have the most difficult time accepting the reality that the PS5 is the more talked about system, and the better designed more efficient system that has developers much more excited

Its those people who cant accept the reality that the PS5 has it's own advantages

They need to start with accepting those realities.

No one is denying a 14% difference. What most reasonable people are saying is that that difference doesnt matter and that tflops arent relevant

You do you are arguing against a known Xbox fan who has entered thread after thread to spread FUD. Just check the post history my dude. That will tell you everything you need to know.
I commend you for the post. Very well said but at this stage I'm starting to add more and more to my ignore list.
Since the PS5 reveal we have had Xbox fans troll PS5 threada relentlessly to the point there can be no discussion had on the topic.
It's always devolved into a troll haven and this done by what I'm assuming are grown ups.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I literally posted Jason's ResetEra post after that. Tom Warren only said Microsoft will surprise Sony(I posted that on NeoGaf).

Nah, you enjoy trolling and spreading FUD. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[farmerboy]

Agreed. This is great to hear! Do you know if there is away to tell if I'm getting exactly 12 TeraFlops when playing a game like Crackdown 3? I'd love to know that I'm getting what I paid for.

This is a perfectly framed rebuttal of the flops arguement. Perfect.

 

[BigLee74]

Actually the PS5 GPU was underclocked and capped, it was running way higher, but we all know the actual facts is not what you're interested in here.....Cerny himself said that PS5 was way higher, but they capped it for stability and it could very well cause issues for some software including BC...…..

News for you buddy! Just because you overclock something to hell, past its breaking point, then bring it back a notch to stop it breaking...

That doesn't mean it's "underclocked, actually".

9.2TF was already majorly overclocked, pushed even further last minute to try and close gap with MS. It was that simple.

 

[Panajev2001a]

News for you buddy! Just because you overclock something to hell, past its breaking point, then bring it back a notch to stop it breaking...

That doesn't mean it's "underclocked, actually".

9.2TF was already majorly overclocked, pushed even further last minute to try and close gap with MS. It was that simple.

This is a nice fantasy .

 

[JägerSeNNA]

This is a nice fantasy .

No this is a fact.

 

[Panajev2001a]

No this is a fact.

Nope, it is a power fantasy rooted in getting hooked with a line starting with no power greater than X and victory meaning complete and utter annihilation of the enemy in any possible way without redemption or positives.

 

[BigLee74]

Nope, it is a power fantasy rooted in getting hooked with a line starting with no power greater than X and victory meaning complete and utter annihilation of the enemy in any possible way without redemption or positives.

Wrong.

TheLastWord (whom I may add is slowly reverting to type following his last ban... a leopard never changes its spots) states that the GPU in the PS5 is "underclocked, actually".

A completely laughable and bollocks statement, that I am calling out.

As simple as that I'm afraid.

 

[JägerSeNNA]

Nope, it is a power fantasy rooted in getting hooked with a line starting with no power greater than X and victory meaning complete and utter annihilation of the enemy in any possible way without redemption or positives.

Tell those fairy tales to someone else not to me. After GitHub leaks,Sony decided a hard O.C. It is a fact. It is not going to change anything just because you don’t want to accept.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Tell those fairy tales to someone else not to me. After GitHub leaks,Sony decided a hard O.C. It is a fact. It is not going to change anything just because you don’t want to accept.

Fact? Ok, show me the meeting notes and e-mails. Now if we want to discuss about what is probable and not... probable is that the design was always meant to be in the very high GHz range And always fixed power and unlocked / capped frequency, but the target is finalised late and maybe moving still.

 

[JägerSeNNA]

Fact? Ok, show me the meeting notes and e-mails. Now if we want to discuss about what is probable and not... probable is that the design was always meant to be in the very high GHz range And always fixed power and unlocked / capped frequency, but the target is finalised late and maybe moving still.

It is a fact that no one can dare if not have to,to make the GPU run at 2.20ghz. It is probably gonna be the biggest challenge for Sony in their console buisiness but who am I talking to? I am pretty sure that the Sony now thinking hard ,how they will be able to achieve this without harming the console ,on the other hand you are telling me some FAIRY TALES here. Keep going brother.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It is a fact that no one can dare if not have to,to make the GPU run at 2.20ghz. It is probably gonna be the biggest challenge for Sony in their console buisiness but who am I talking to? I am pretty sure that the Sony now thinking hard ,how they will be able to achieve this without harming the console ,on the other hand you are telling me some FAIRY TALES here. Keep going brother.

You are living in your own fantasy and casting stones at others. You are stating some facts, some speculations, some random F.U.D., and connecting the dots in your own way and calling everything as factual and attacking others if they dare to disagree:

The root around this is not just being happy about XSX being faster TFLOPS wise, which is important, and having cool tech, but seeing PS5 as some shitty, rushed, out-engineered machine.

 

[Moses85]

44 Minutes, even in Corona Times way to much. I am out
Or is it the time worth?

 

[truth411]

Listening to some Xbox fans.

The XSX 15% GPU advantage is really 150%.

The PS5 129% faster SSD, I/O throughput advantage is really 12.9% and is virtually meaningless.
Mark Cerny is an idiot, focusing so much on the SSD I/O throughput is a complete waste of time and will have virtually no impact on game development at all including PlayStation Exclusives.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I just watched the NXGamer vid and the Corteks guy's analysis and it lines up with what tech minded people are saying: PS5 looks more forward looking and game changing in terms of hardware.

MS' approach seems simplistic in comparison ('lets just stick a massive GPU in there').

 

[JägerSeNNA]

You are living in your own fantasy and casting stones at others. You are stating some facts, some speculations, some random F.U.D., and connect the dots in your own way and calling everything as factual and attacking others if they dare to disagree:

I have nothing more to say to you because you have no idea what you are talking about. You didn’t even understand what I meant.Keep dreaming my friend,keep dreaming.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I have nothing more to say to you because you have no idea what you are talking about. You didn’t even understand what I meant.Keep dreaming my friend,keep dreaming.

I understand what you are saying (thanks for keeping up on personal insults) and it is not the first time we have been talking about frequency scaling and system design on this board, including discussion between braniac vs speed demon designs.
If you were to try to explain what you meant a bit more clearly it would be easier to have a discussion than another battle in the console war. Not seeking the latter, but if you are fill your boots.

 

[KingT731]

Listening to some Xbox fans.

The XSX 15% GPU advantage is really 150%.

The PS5 129% faster SSD, I/O throughput advantage is really 12.9% and is virtually meaningless.
Mark Cerny is an idiot, focusing so much on the SSD I/O throughput is a complete waste of time and will have virtually no impact on game development at all including PlayStation Exclusives.

Yeah that mentality I don't understand. Cerny went into detail about all the customizations they made for the chip to both remove bottlenecks as well as taking the burden off of the CPU/GPU by offsetting specific tasks to make the power available for games. We will have to see the performance when the games come later this year but the general consensus seems to be that the performance between the 2 is fairly close. Hell even going by current gen a 40-ish% difference in numbers wasn't a big difference in performance.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I understand what you are saying (thanks for keeping up on personal insults) and it is not the first time we have been talking about frequency scaling and system design on this board, including discussion between braniac vs speed demon designs.
If you were to try to explain what you meant a bit more clearly it is easier to have a discussion than another battle in the console war. Not seeking the latter, but if you are fill your boots.

That guy signed up Monday and his post history is telling. He doesnt want to have a debate it's a troll account. Report him.

 

[JägerSeNNA]

That guy signed up Monday and his post history is telling. He doesnt want to have a debate it's a troll account. Report him.

Report who ever you want. I am not a troll. Just a guy who knows something. You think every new member is an alt troll account? Bravo.

 

[tryDEATH]

The need for confirmation bias in this thread and actually since the PS5 reveal has been insane.

So many people are trying to grasp at any straw that is offered from literally anyone that is willing to conjured that bias no matter the source. Its going to leave many people very disappointed and extremely foolish looking for backing some of these people that are trying to get a following and cash in the hype and bias pandering.

 

[prinz_valium]

Seems like the number for the Series X GPU power advantage gets lower every day.
From 15% to 14% now.

The raw TFLOP power advantage of Series X over Ps5 is ABOVE 18.2% or 30% more than 14%
How would anyone take peoples opinion on micro electronics design serious, if they can't even do basic math right?%
Because that shit is just exactly that. Higher mathematics.


And that is just the GPU compute power. There are other performance metrics, too.

 

[Guilhermegrg]

So the teraflop difference is 17% in favor of Xbox. But that's not all the story. It's importante the architecture to get there.

XBox has more CUs so probably performance in ray tracing will be significantly better than Sony. Maybe.

The question in whether ray tracing is going to be that important in this generation is still open. For the next one, sure, but this one to be launched.... Not so sure.

Some important titles that will show case it, that is to be expected. But most of them? Don't think so, at least not in the first few years.

More than that though is the amount of silicon being put in those auxiliary functions to mainting high bandwith.

Basically what microsoft invested in those extra CUs for xbox, sony spent in custom functions, maintaining high bandwidth, fast ssd, 3d audio and what not.

And the truth is that both approaches are totally valid and fundamented.

XBox seems a little more "simple" but with a bit more graphical power.

PS5 seems a bit more customized with good graphical power but focused on reducing bottlenecks.

Is the data shown by Cerny on that presentation about the communication bottlenecks and how they improved it is for real, it is a goddam revolution.

If you can actually access the data from ssd that quickly, you can change a LOT about the game engine. You can do some pretty crazy things that will impact the game much more than a 17% graphical difference.

The big bottleneck in games isgetting the data from the disk to the ram and then trying to work with that within the limits of the ram and minimizing loads.

If you remove or drastically improve these access times then you can be constantly throwing stuff out and loading stuff in on the fly.

This means a lot more variety and richness on what the player can what or hear on any given frame.

That, to me personally, is a lot more interesting progress technically than 2 more teraflops.

Most likely this will not be a favyor for multiplat games, but exclusives most assuredly will show some bery impressive tricks based on these capabilities.

And I also agree that the games designed around this speed will not port to PCs anytime soon if at all.

 

[lepermessiah]

Christ

You know what, I'm just going to wait for the empirical, real-world results/comparisons from DF and the like. Theoretical pissing contests get old.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

News for you buddy! Just because you overclock something to hell, past its breaking point, then bring it back a notch to stop it breaking...

That doesn't mean it's "underclocked, actually".

9.2TF was already majorly overclocked, pushed even further last minute to try and close gap with MS. It was that simple.

Who in the hell did you hear that from? Does Cerny call you, crying, when he's drunk and reveal these truths?

 

[Entroyp]

Because a difference in GPU is more important than a difference in SSD speeds. SSD speeds are a worse metric than Teraflops. So, if he is saying that XSX is significantly better he cant be taken seriously ? And somehow SSD speed differences scale like GPU power ? This is a new low for Neogaf. When said significantly better he meant the overall box. And the fact he has never worked for Xbox makes him more credible than Ready at Dawn head, who is part of the Sony devs circlejerk. 14% vs 129% is probably the lowest this place will get.


So, apparently he somehow has a connection to MS, but not Ready at Dawn which has always been a second party Sony dev formed of ex-Naughty Dog devs?
If you are gonna post a random indie dev then so will I(and people hate me for posting Louise Kirby's tweets)


I am not creating a narrative. There are people praising from both the sides. You cant deny one side questioning their credibility.

Interesting take from a developer not-developing PS5 games. It’s one thing to say the difference will be minimal but saying the XsX will load game faster because CPU bottlenecks? when the official presentation by the PS5 architect went to so much detail to explain he developed an entirely custom I/O subsystem that’s entirely independent from the CPU and eliminates all bottlenecks in the path between the memory banks and RAM (none of this exist currently in PC or other consoles).

I do understand posting this kind of comment is to derail positive discussion though.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Because a difference in GPU is more important than a difference in SSD speeds. SSD speeds are a worse metric than Teraflops. So, if he is saying that XSX is significantly better he cant be taken seriously ? And somehow SSD speed differences scale like GPU power ? This is a new low for Neogaf. When said significantly better he meant the overall box. And the fact he has never worked for Xbox makes him more credible than Ready at Dawn head, who is part of the Sony devs circlejerk. 14% vs 129% is probably the lowest this place will get.


So, apparently he somehow has a connection to MS, but not Ready at Dawn which has always been a second party Sony dev formed of ex-Naughty Dog devs?
If you are gonna post a random indie dev then so will I(and people hate me for posting Louise Kirby's tweets)


I am not creating a narrative. There are people praising from both the sides. You cant deny one side questioning their credibility.

The SSD will greatly enhance graphics too for those studios that use it, while eliminating some of the development time they would have spent

 

[Bernkastel]

Interesting take from a developer not-developing PS5 games. It’s one thing to say the difference will be minimal but saying the XsX will load game faster because CPU bottlenecks? when the official presentation by the PS5 architect went to so much detail to explain he developed an entirely custom I/O subsystem that’s entirely independent from the CPU and eliminates all bottlenecks in the path between the memory banks and RAM (none of this exist currently in PC or other consoles).

I don’t know.. doesn’t sound righty too me.

If you guys use some indie devs(in this case Breakfall Games) opinion to say PS5 is more powerful, then I will also post Dynamic Voltage Games and Louise Kirby tweets.
I am replying to a post who says that an ex-Guerilla Games dev and an ex-Valve/Space X/Ensemble dev have no credibility simply for saying XSX is more powerful and must be in a partnership with Microsoft and replies with a tweet from Ready at Dawn(sounds more like a Sony partnership to me)and a ResetEra post from Breakfall Games. And then says PS5 is more powerful because the SSD is 129% more powerful and XSX GPU is only 14% more powerful.

 

[Entroyp]

If you guys use some indie devs(in this case Breakfall Games) opinion to say PS5 is more powerful, then I will also post Dynamic Voltage Games and Louise Kirby tweets.
I am replying to a post who says that an ex-Guerilla Games dev and an ex-Valve/Space X/Ensemble dev have no credibility simply for saying XSX is more powerful and must be in a partnership with Microsoft and replies with a tweet from Ready at Dawn(sounds more like a Sony partnership to me)and a ResetEra post from Breakfall Games. And then says PS5 is more powerful because the SSD is 129% more powerful and XSX GPU is only 14% more powerful.

Who’s you guys? I don’t post anyone’s tweets in here. I’m here for a good tech discussion about what I think is the most interesting aspect of next gen consoles.

I guess my comment was unnecessary since it’s all about warring with someone else here. Carry on.

 

[KingT731]

If you guys use some indie devs(in this case Breakfall Games) opinion to say PS5 is more powerful, then I will also post Dynamic Voltage Games and Louise Kirby tweets.
I am replying to a post who says that an ex-Guerilla Games dev and an ex-Valve/Space X/Ensemble dev have no credibility simply for saying XSX is more powerful and must be in a partnership with Microsoft and replies with a tweet from Ready at Dawn(sounds more like a Sony partnership to me)and a ResetEra post from Breakfall Games. And then says PS5 is more powerful because the SSD is 129% more powerful and XSX GPU is only 14% more powerful.

Except nobody is saying that.

 

[pr0cs]

eliminating some of the development time they would have spent

I really wouldn't get your hopes up that SSD speed has ANY relationship with development time.... At all

 

[Bernkastel]

Except nobody is saying that.

You sure about that ?

First off, anyone who says the 1X is "significantly better" instantly discredits themselves, and can no longer be taken seriously. Tflops isn't a meaningful metric or any kind of good measure for performance. 14% is negligible as it is. Diminishing returns cuts even more into that negligible 14%.

Its amazing how some keep trying to play up that 14% as some "huge difference," yet have the nerve to ignore or downplay a 129% advantage for the PS5 (ssds)

Apparently 14% is now greater then 129%.

...

No one is denying a 14% difference. What most reasonable people are saying is that that difference doesnt matter and that tflops arent relevant

Then there is LastWord saying PS5 is actually underclocked.

 

[BadBurger]

Is that what the PS5 really looks like? That is sexy.

And as someone who has done extensive system sizing for all kinds of apps and database environments, storage I/O and overall memory speed has meant a hell of a lot more than compute for several years now. I doubt that can really be compared to consoles though, since the GPU seems so crucial. But I don't know.

 

[OliverKahn]

I don't think an animal even thinking of SSD > GPU

 

[LordKasual]

Sony could always go for checkerboarding, because in practice the difference between CB and native 4K is neglectible.

I almost hate saying this because i don't want to fuel the XSX fanboy morons, but this also counts as true for XSX.

It can technically abandon targeting native 4K for 1st party titles, opt for upscaling, and repurpose the majority of that power for pushing visuals.


But, again, this is only for 1st party titles, where both PS5 and XSX will excel in different areas.

So the argument between the two is still stupid

 

[BattleScar]

Because a difference in GPU is more important than a difference in SSD speeds. SSD speeds are a worse metric than Teraflops. So, if he is saying that XSX is significantly better he cant be taken seriously ? And somehow SSD speed differences scale like GPU power ? This is a new low for Neogaf. When said significantly better he meant the overall box. And the fact he has never worked for Xbox makes him more credible than Ready at Dawn head, who is part of the Sony devs circlejerk. 14% vs 129% is probably the lowest this place will get.


So, apparently he somehow has a connection to MS, but not Ready at Dawn which has always been a second party Sony dev formed of ex-Naughty Dog devs?
If you are gonna post a random indie dev then so will I(and people hate me for posting Louise Kirby's tweets)


I am not creating a narrative. There are people praising from both the sides. You cant deny one side questioning their credibility.

You don't sense the irony that the guy whose tweet you just posted, is working on an Xbox exclusive?
Dynamic Voltage games doesn't understand the PS5's setup and believes the CPU will bottleneck the SSD (???????????????), despite having never worked with a PS5 or used its development tools...?


Even that other guy who you keep mentioning who works for Space X or whatever, has previously worked directly for Microsoft as a game developer...
All the people with ties to Sony are to be under suspicion because of potential biases, but people who are either currently directly working with, or have previously held deep working relationships with Microsoft are perfectly reliable...?

 

[DaMonsta]

He is a PC guy.

Don't you guys find it strange that PS5 is exciting for Developers who create games and always praised by unbiased people? eg PC only YTers and other gaming channels.

There might be a reason for that which is the mighty impressive SSD and the I/O block that keeps bottlenecks to the minimum.

People being excited about PS5 does not mean they are not excited about the Xbox.

You guys just run to post/promote anything said positive about PS5, while also working to suppress and ridicule anyone saying positive things about Xbox.

You’ve created a bubble and are sitting happily within it. That bubble will surely burst when we start getting game comparisons proving what’s clearly there if you were honest with yourselves.

 

[Hobbygaming]

I really wouldn't get your hopes up that SSD speed has ANY relationship with development time.... At all

That's factually incorrect. Games often use things like crawlspaces, ladders, boosting characters up, to slow the character down because the slower harddrives needed time to load the game world. With SSDs they can reduce these instances

Also there's the less duplication of objects to form contiguous blocks of data. The duplicated objects are often the reason for bugs and game delays

Now whether the developers use the reduced time to implement other things inside the game is up to them

 

[Psykodad]

I almost hate saying this because i don't want to fuel the XSX fanboy morons, but this also counts as true for XSX.

It can technically abandon targeting native 4K for 1st party titles, opt for upscaling, and repurpose the majority of that power for pushing visuals.


But, again, this is only for 1st party titles, where both PS5 and XSX will excel in different areas.

So the argument between the two is still stupid

Not sure where you're going for this, but my comment wasn't a dig at XSX or anything.

I merely pointed out that checkerboarding can be used to safe on performance cost and that it's practically indistinguishable from native 4k.

And yes, MS could do that too if they want to, although I have a feeling they will use mostly native 4k for PR purposes.

 

[CJY]

People being excited about PS5 does not mean they are not excited about the Xbox.

I actually think you're wrong here. Sure, there are lots of people who will buy both consoles, but I think the majority don't have any interest in the XSX because it's just not interesting. It's a PC in a box and doesn't do anything to innovate on console design or philosophy.

You guys just run to post/promote anything said positive about PS5, while also working to suppress and ridicule anyone saying positive things about Xbox.

People are posting news about PS5 because again, they are interested in PS5. Nobody is working to suppress anything about XSX. It's got more flops, awesome. It's a PC in a box, cool. What else is there?

You’ve created a bubble and are sitting happily within it. That bubble will surely burst when we start getting game comparisons proving what’s clearly there if you were honest with yourselves.

Nobody is sitting in a bubble. If anything, it's pure XBox fanheads sitting in that bubble waiting for DF to produce head-to-heads when they are basically worthless next-gen. Any disparity between the consoles in framerate or resolution will come down to the devs and how well optimised the games are and smart usage of the tools and APIs available. Will anybody be surprised if an XSX game has better framerate than a PS5 game? or what if it was the other way around? What if one had slightly better resolution that the other? No, no and double no.

Fact is, we've been stuck in this race for more pixels for 2 generations now and nobody thinks or believes that either console won't be capable of 4K/60. This is why nobody cares about GPU performance. Beyond a certain level, the resolution doesn't matter like it once did, and even if it does matter to some, it's just not as important as the potential for new game experiences and mechanics brought about by exploiting the fast SSD.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I don't understand this take, because it's not just a fast SSD in isolation, the entire IO complex is built to remove the CPU as a bottleneck. There's a dedicated chip handling DMA, compression/decompression (equal to what 9 Ryzen 2 cores would be worth), coherency, these are all made to remove the CPU as a bottleneck.

 

[CJY]

D DaMonsta Imagine playing God of War 2 on PS5 and instead of having enemies come out of realm tears, there are enemies that pull you into them and instantly, you're in another dimension. Being able to flush the RAM cache and refill it practically instantaneously is a game changer. What we have today with slow IO, is "fast travel", realm between realms, the realm travel room to mask slow IO.

This simple gameplay example is something I'd be extremely interested in and would only be possible with fast IO. I don't care if it's done with a few less pixels.

 

[LordKasual]

Not sure where you're going for this, but my comment wasn't a dig at XSX or anything.

I merely pointed out that checkerboarding can be used to safe on performance cost and that it's practically indistinguishable from native 4k.

And yes, MS could do that too if they want to, although I have a feeling they will use mostly native 4k for PR purposes.

yes, we were talking about the same thing lol.

What i was pointing out is that people always mention this for PS5 in the context of bridging a gap, but never for XSX.

 

[JägerSeNNA]

I actually think you're wrong here. Sure, there are lots of people who will buy both consoles, but I think the majority don't have any interest in the XSX because it's just not interesting. It's a PC in a box and doesn't do anything to innovate on console design or philosophy.


People are posting news about PS5 because again, they are interested in PS5. Nobody is working to suppress anything about XSX. It's got more flops, awesome. It's a PC in a box, cool. What else is there?


Nobody is sitting in a bubble. If anything, it's pure XBox fanheads sitting in that bubble waiting for DF to produce head-to-heads when they are basically worthless next-gen. Any disparity between the consoles in framerate or resolution will come down to the devs and how well optimised the games are and smart usage of the tools and APIs available. Will anybody be surprised if an XSX game has better framerate than a PS5 game? or what if it was the other way around? What if one had slightly better resolution that the other? No, no and double no.

Fact is, we've been stuck in this race for more pixels for 2 generations now and nobody thinks or believes that either console won't be capable of 4K/60. This is why nobody cares about GPU performance. Beyond a certain level, the resolution doesn't matter like it once did, and even if it does matter to some, it's just not as important as the potential for new game experiences and mechanics brought about by exploiting the fast SSD.

Lol, what makes you sure that the vast majority of the people think that the Xbox is uninteresting? This is one of the most fanatical bullshit ever heard. I don’t even have an Xbox but XSX looking much more interesting to me and to most of my friends who have been using PS consoles for years.