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[JordanN]

Video games have always taken real life events and tried to make them entertaining. Like shooters that are obviously inspired by WW2 or other historical events, or games that even try and offer up business simulation.

But what if a developer went into a completely radical direction and made a game whose central theme is maths, and gave it an actual AAA budget on par with Hollywood movies? Could such a game still succeed, or would most normies be put off by it because they literally can't put two and two together?

 

[DESTROYA]

People are generally too dumb to figure out complex math.
Plus no one wants to be fooled into learning.

 

[Rbk_3]

There already was. Number Munchers and Math Circus.

 

[JordanN]

There already was. Number Munchers and Math Circus.

They were AAA?
I'm talking high production values that match God of War or Grand Theft Auto.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

that is like teaching people a new language and a new way to think, I am fascinated by math but I doubt I would understand half of what went on in a game of that math level

no this would sell about 200 copies

 

[DESTROYA]

I did find Brain Age type of games pretty engaging.

 

[Codes 208]

Brain age is pretty much the closest you’ll ever get

 

[Smiles and Cries]

They were AAA?
I'm talking high production values that match God of War or Grand Theft Auto.

why set your goals at a AAA level.

No one is going to spend time and money on that

get a small indie team to do something like that. It could be at a NO MANS SKY level. Math at GTA come on man who is asking for that? This is about profits not blind hope. If you have a high knowledge of math and can't add that up what is the point of learning Math?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

World of Warcraft had people crunching numbers like woah.

You have to hide the math behind a gameplay loop or else people will reject it.

 

[JordanN]

why set your goals at a AAA level.

No one is going to spend time and money on that

get a small indie team to do something like that. It could be at a NO MANS SKY level. Math at GTA come on man who is asking for that? This is about profits not blind hope. If you have a high knowledge of math and can't add that up what is the point of learning Math?

A higher budget could play into the scope of the storytelling and gameplay.

For example, imagine if in the story, you are tasked with stopping hijacked trains. There would still be your typical action based gameplay of moving around and shooting. But say you had a time limit that could only be found by calculating the train's ongoing speed.

So now you're tasked with both stopping bad guys and finding out when will you arrive at your next destination.

It's almost like how there are puzzles you still need to solve in Tomb Raider, but instead of rotating statues to find the secret entrance, you have to use different formulas instead.

 

[diffusionx]

I have a degree in math, the only part I would consider "fun" is proof writing, but even then, I'd rather just play Halo or something.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

It cost EA hundreds of millions of dollars to find out that Anthem just didn't add up.

 

[Belmonte]

My mind would blew if the industry made a proper tactical CRPG with AAA budget. But a math game with AAA resources is an entire another level of wishful thinking.

Don't misunderstood me, it would be very interesting but the AAA industry, specially the western part, has a very narrow choice of mechanics/themes and I expect this trend to continue.

Even games like Front Mission and FFVII have too abstract mechanics for the mainstream in this generation so they changed it to action. Math is pure abstraction. The only way this can happen is if they made an "Action Math Genre"

 

[lyan]

for abstract math unlikely consider it takes a whole bachelor degree to really just introduce the foundations to dive into any of the real stuff, very challenging to lead to anything meaningful in one game.
for applied math maybe something similar to kerbal space program could be feasible.

 

[JordanN]

for abstract math unlikely consider it takes a whole bachelor degree to really just introduce the foundations to dive into any of the real stuff, very challenging to lead to anything meaningful in one game.
for applied math maybe something similar to kerbal space program could be feasible.

Wait, then what did I learn in Grade 1 ~ 12, that taught me algebra, trigonometry, geometry, differential equations etc?

I think there can be abstract math that doesn't require a post secondary degree.

In fact, I think of many real world job settings where math is still used everyday. Like finding the area of a triangle, or calculating the length and width of a room.

 

[glimmerman]

OP, the answer is, yes. There could. If quantum froth can make Jesus walk on water, and Trump can be elected president, then literally anything is possible. Is it likely? Hell no.

 

[devilNprada]

Diablo (blizzard) games have a lot of Math in calculating the DPS. That's the fun of it. Does that count?

 

[RedVIper]

Wait, then what did I learn in Grade 1 ~ 12, that taught me algebra, trigonometry, geometry, differential equations etc?

I think there can be abstract math that doesn't require a post secondary degree.

In fact, I think of many real world job settings where math is still used everyday. Like finding the area of a triangle, or calculating the length and width of a room.

Yeah and thats pretty basic math.

Go play factorio with some mods, plenty of math for you there. Actually if you want there's some pretty interesting stuff you can do in this game, from creating lane balancers (requires math), to circuit logic (stuff you learn in introduction to computer architecture), and just general algebra to optimize your factory.

 

[zeorhymer]

EVE Online needed spreadsheets to play.

 

[Vawn]

AAA? No chance in hell.

Why would such a game need such a budget anyway?

 

[Trogdor1123]

Isn't any game that includes min maxing a math game at the end of the day?

 

[JordanN]

EVE Online needed spreadsheets to play.

Ok, that sounds epic.

That's the type of gameplay that screams rewarding. The only way to win is to literally beat your opponent with numbers.

 

[JordanN]

Isn't any game that includes min maxing a math game at the end of the day?

Yeah, I think a genre like RPG's or Strategy games would work well with this concept.

Basically, every time you leveled up, you were given points to put into your character's attack, defense, magic, speed etc. The only difference is a lot of games does it automatically.

 

[Elektro Demon]

The closest thing you're gonna get to this on a AAA level is a puzzle game like Portal or Talos Principle. But even that is not all math, it's more towards logic.

 

[Sussoloc]

Donkey Kong Jr. Math was harder than Battletoads!

 

[lyan]

Wait, then what did I learn in Grade 1 ~ 12, that taught me algebra, trigonometry, geometry, differential equations etc?

I think there can be abstract math that doesn't require a post secondary degree.

In fact, I think of many real world job settings where math is still used everyday. Like finding the area of a triangle, or calculating the length and width of a room.

When I say abstract math I mean things like logic, sets, groups, graphs (not plotting equations in a cartesian grid). The aspects of trig, geometry, algebra and calculus taught in grade school are all just foundations for doing applied maths.

 

[MrCunningham]

Number Munchers reboot
Made by: Rockstar Games.
Development Budget: $150 million

Do it!

 

[Fbh]

You telling me Math Blaster wasn't AAA?!?!?!

 

[Ballthyrm]

AAA game with Math.
I'm pretty sure you need a PHD in math and in excel spreadsheet to be any good at Eve Online.

The whole game is about numbers. and sometimes spaceships (sometimes)

 

[diffusionx]

Wait, then what did I learn in Grade 1 ~ 12, that taught me algebra, trigonometry, geometry, differential equations etc?

I think there can be abstract math that doesn't require a post secondary degree.

In fact, I think of many real world job settings where math is still used everyday. Like finding the area of a triangle, or calculating the length and width of a room.

You learned the rules of the road, basically.

Higher level math gets more and more abstract and ends up looking less and less like what you think of as math the more you go up.

And it is of limited utility for most... I work in a math oriented field and don't use any of that stuff.

 

[Shifty1897]

Number Munchers was the Uncharted of 1990.

 

[stranno]

1983.
Dear Santa, i have been good this year.
I would like Donkey Kong Jr for NES this Christmas.

 

[Halo is Back]

This question is so weird, Im like trying to wrap my brain around a to someone spending 200 million on a damn math game. The only way that kind of money would be going into is research and development into new engineering software, or statistical analysis program only used by professionals in the field.

 

[JordanN]

This question is so weird, Im like trying to wrap my brain around a to someone spending 200 million on a damn math game. The only way that kind of money would be going into is research and development into new engineering software, or statistical analysis program only used by professionals in the field.

It's not that far fetched of an idea.

I don't mean a game where you're forced to stare at a blackboard and write down answers like you're in school.

Again, it could be a game that takes on role playing.

Like you're an Engineer working for this top secret military company and you have to solve complex puzzles involving math so the story can advance.

Or you're a detective who has to use math to try and solve clues in order to save lives (Batman vs The Riddler?).

Or maybe it's even a strategy game and it's your job to calculate what is the most efficient means of producing soldiers and then send them to battle.

 

[TheUsual]

Final Fantasy Tactics I believe had players using calculators during matches and tournaments.

EDIT: Or am I thinking of the class?

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

A higher budget could play into the scope of the storytelling and gameplay.

For example, imagine if in the story, you are tasked with stopping hijacked trains. There would still be your typical action based gameplay of moving around and shooting. But say you had a time limit that could only be found by calculating the train's ongoing speed.

So now you're tasked with both stopping bad guys and finding out when will you arrive at your next destination.

It's almost like how there are puzzles you still need to solve in Tomb Raider, but instead of rotating statues to find the secret entrance, you have to use different formulas instead.

That sounds like a genuinely interesting game!

I'd love that, tbh. Reminds me of a puzzle towards the final act of Silent Hill 1 which made me use math to solve it.

 

[Cato]

Wait, then what did I learn in Grade 1 ~ 12, that taught me algebra, trigonometry, geometry, differential equations etc?

You probably learnt how to USE, but not prove or understand, some basic methods and got a cursory overview. There is so much more before you even get to anything resembling high level math. Everything up to and including a Bachelors degree is just learning the basic foundations.

So what did you learn?
For example, Pythagoras theorem. May I guess you learnt how to use it but you did not learn how to prove it?

 

[JordanN]

You probably learnt how to USE, but not prove or understand, some basic methods and got a cursory overview. There is so much more before you even get to anything resembling high level math. Everything up to and including a Bachelors degree is just learning the basic foundations.

So what did you learn?
For example, Pythagoras theorem. May I guess you learnt how to use it but you did not learn how to prove it?

I had to look up what proving means.
Unfortunately, I do not remember in school about being taught about axioms,definitions, and theorems.

It sounds very interesting though. Ironically, I feel like it overlaps with other topics that involved logic and deduction, in which case, I am aware of linguistic fallacies and problems like reductio ad absurdum or post hoc propter hoc.

Proof by Contradiction: Knights and Liars

I am currently reading a local book about mathematical problem solving and I came across with a cute proof demonstrating proof by contradiction. Actually, I heard a very similar problem ages ago, …

mathandmultimedia.com

Proof

For the sake of contradiction, assume on the contrary that the person is an Idea island native. Then we have two possibilities: the person is either a knight or a liar. If the person is a knight, he is not a liar, and because he always tells the truth, he cannot say “I am a liar.” If the person is a liar, then he always lies and because his phrase “I am a liar” is true, he could not say it. Therefore, both cases are impossible, and we arrive at a contradiction, proving that the person is not an Idea island native.

Proof by contradiction (read more examples) is one of the methods of proof in higher mathematics. Some of the popular methods are direct proof and mathematical induction.

 

[Tesseract]

in the way most people would want, i don't know

trying

 

[Potato Chip PRO]

That Rayman game with math

 

[magnumpy]

 

[baphomet]

Possibly the dumbest game idea I've ever heard

 

[mango drank]

Uh, hello?

 

[Ailynn]

Nah...not for me, thanks!


All you math folks have your fun, though!

 

[Rodolink]

A higher budget could play into the scope of the storytelling and gameplay.

For example, imagine if in the story, you are tasked with stopping hijacked trains. There would still be your typical action based gameplay of moving around and shooting. But say you had a time limit that could only be found by calculating the train's ongoing speed.

So now you're tasked with both stopping bad guys and finding out when will you arrive at your next destination.

It's almost like how there are puzzles you still need to solve in Tomb Raider, but instead of rotating statues to find the secret entrance, you have to use different formulas instead.

That's edutainment in your example, would be interesting to people that are actually good in math which are minority and are not interested that much in games (just my take), thus not worthy to invest in AAA Budget.

 

[eot]

Simply presenting math problems on screen wouldn't make for a good game. That's just like any other mini-game that doesn't make sense, like having you solve a crossword puzzle to unlock a door or something. The problem is that if you want to include organic math puzzles, that requires the player to identify the problem, formulate it properly, and then solve it. For many people the problem formulation is very hard, and it's very important to formulate it well if you want to solve it. I think the ability for the game to teach you the skills to do that would be limited, as it's something you acquire over a long period of time.

Math is better suited to free form games, like some of the examples mentioned, where you can use math to do something cool in the game, but it's not required for progression.

EVE Online needed spreadsheets to play.

Dude, to this day my google docs is just filled with EVE spreadsheets. I learned more about economics and trading in that game than I ever did in real life lol.

 

[RedVIper]

It's not that far fetched of an idea.

I don't mean a game where you're forced to stare at a blackboard and write down answers like you're in school.

Again, it could be a game that takes on role playing.

Like you're an Engineer working for this top secret military company and you have to solve complex puzzles involving math so the story can advance.

Or you're a detective who has to use math to try and solve clues in order to save lives (Batman vs The Riddler?).

Or maybe it's even a strategy game and it's your job to calculate what is the most efficient means of producing soldiers and then send them to battle.

You don't need an AAA budget for any of this though.

 

[Hypereides]

On a meta level, they already exist. If you study the game code you'll learn plenty about advanced math and/or utilize your logical thinking to analyse it to understand it.

On an accessible and visual level I wouldn't mind seeing something that could make math "look" like a spectacle with some effective VFX to enhance that. Its probably best reserved for some sci-fi setting tackling/discussing advanced mathematical theories and mysteries and applies them in some fantastical way.

 

[SweetShark]

Yes

 

[Birdo]

Maths make me sweat.

I'm not joking. I literaly perspire when I try to do mathamatical calculations.