Support NeoGAF

[Zaptruder]

As I said in the other thread - the lack of playable female characters has everything to do with a misprioritization of resources and nothing to do with a lack of resources.

They just didn't feel it was important enough to do female assassins over whatever other trivial graphical feature would've taken as much work but left less impact.

 

[Asbear]

As someone who's been a bit out of the loop regarding this topic, I can't really do anything but shake my head. I don't really get why it's suddently so important that the role-patterns are switched up. I've played plenty of games where the protagonist was female and I loved them -- that includes Drakan: The Ancient's Gates on PS2 and the Metroid Prime series on GC -- but I just don't like how as of late it seems like the whole "play as a female" is part of some big proactive movement :/

I think developers should relax. If a developer wants to be macho and have sexism in their game, they should be able to do so, while other devs might make it clear that their viewpoints towards the female sex is more respectfully handled if they so choose.

A lot of girls like bad-boys, who like hot chicks, so I kinda think the whole sexist thing you see in some games is just a reflection of that.

 

[Cyrano]

It's particularly ironic since the most famous assassin during the French Revolution was female.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Corday

 

[The Smoking Bun]

I love how the Ubi defenders always talk like Females are some weird different species of humanoids that would require overhauling the entire game to include. They did Aveline De Grandpere just fine, they can have a female Assassin and no it won't affect immersion because LOL! ESCAPISM!

It's particularly ironic since the most famous assassin during the French Revolution was female.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Corday

No way! How did she escape the kitchen? That could be a mission, amirite guys? [/Misogyny]

 

[Sandy Nipples]

You know the one reason my fiance played so much Rainbow Six Vegas 2? She could play as a female character! Wish evil developers would drop these harsh stereotypes and let the player choose which race / gender they want! Ubisoft is taking fascism to extreme levels I mean Jesus Christ, c'mon! C'mon!

 

[nynt9]

More likely answer..

They didn't think about it and are trying to cover their butts after the fact.

I can absolutely tell you that it is nice when you get to play as someone you can identify with in a game. Being ignored for stupid reasons is frustrating when you have a game with 4-player co-op that they can't even allow for a token woman model for the rest of us.

The interview I linked above has them saying they considered it but cut it due to cost/time factors.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

It definitely will take more time, but they hire like thousands of people if they need to. They can definitely make it happen.

 

[Galactic Fork]

More likely answer..

They didn't think about it and are trying to cover their butts after the fact.

Wouldn't that be B then?

 

[fijim]

More likely answer..

They didn't think about it and are trying to cover their butts after the fact.

I can absolutely tell you that it is nice when you get to play as someone you can identify with in a game. Being ignored for stupid reasons is frustrating when you have a game with 4-player co-op that they can't even allow for a token woman model for the rest of us.

This is what I think it is. Sort of a toned down version of B with a little bit of C in there.

 

[Wounded]

While I think it would be cool to have a female assassin (I like Aveline, I'd definitely like them to create another), I think a lot of the anger on the net is people thinking that they've actually created four seperate males and excluded women, where actually it's just Arno, everyone sees themselves as Arno and the other Assassin's in co-op is just people's customised Arno, with a face swap.

 

[stupei]

Well that's kinda useless then.

I don't see why story reasons are preventing them from inserting a female version of the main character that you see.

According to Ubisoft devs themselves, story reasons have nothing to do with it, at least going by their original statement. They claimed they were totally going to do it and just ran out of time! No mention there about story reasons getting in the way or how it would alter anything.

So either they're lying about how much a part of the original plan female characters always were to pay lip-service and avoid actually discussing the topic or people are so desperate to defend the game they want to buy from any criticism that they are contradicting statements from the developers themselves while arguing for developer vision and integrity being paramount.

Or possibly both.

 

[glimmerman]

The concept of complaining about things that developers have left out of their games is completely flawed. There are many many many things in the world. Not all of them can be in every game.

In this case , the developer left out a playable female character. If a playable female character was put in, then the next argument is that the character is not of a particular race or ethnicity. Next is nationality and stereotyping. And after that the complaint is that the character is not of a particular sexual orientation. Eventually thanks to reductio ad absurdum, you get down to hairstyles, particular colour clothes, accents and so on. Its an endless rabbithole that developers do not need follow.

If a developer chooses to put something in, or leave something out, is entirely up to them. You can choose to buy it or not.

 

[benny_a]

Isn't that still the same issue though? Whether they're completely unique animations or the same basic animations re-rigged for different sizes and shapes of character they're still character, or in this case gender, specific animations. It would still require additional work which means time and money. Is it that hard to believe Ubisoft would value streamlining the project wherever possible to keep costs down and ensure the game is done on time over being more inclusive? That seems pretty reasonable to me. They have a budget, the have a limited time frame, tons of things are likely scaled back to stay within both of them. People should be making Ubisoft feel like it's not something they can cut for any reason instead of arguing against the reality that any additional content, however small or easily included, takes more resources.

I agree with you that it takes additional resources. It just doesn't mean they have to mo-cap 8000 more animations.

You might think this is pedantry, I just wanted to point out that it's not the same.

I don't think anyone can deny the reality of the 480MB available memory on PS3 and how much everything has been pushed on that system while it's quite easy to deny the way Ubisoft argued their reasoning.

 

[BigDug13]

While I think it would be cool to have a female assassin (I like Aveline, I'd definitely like them to create another), I think a lot of the anger on the net is people thinking that they've actually created four seperate males and excluded women, where actually it's just Arno, everyone sees themselves as Arno and the other Assassin's in co-op is just people's customised Arno, with a face swap.

No, the anger comes from Ubisoft's excuse. If they had just instead said what your post said, that all the multiplayer characters they created are just the main character with a face swap, it would have been a more palatable excuse than "it was too hard".

 

[Brakke]

The Lord made Eve second because the animations were trickier and he needed more time.

the lack of [________] has everything to do with a misprioritization of resources and nothing to do with a lack of resources.

This is a working model for every human endeavor there ever was.

 

[Crossing Eden]

This is what I would like to know.

Is it:

A.) They hate women & minorities and are trying to keep them down.

B.) They have internal biases and prejudices that they are not considering, and it presents itself in the way they write and develop a game.

C.) They are trying to appeal to a certain male demographic and are doing it purely for business reasons.

A.One look at the AC series answers that question, the answer is no. When has Ubisoft ever implied that they hate women or minorities in a series with tons of minorities?

B.The producer of this game specifically is a woman. If they had internal bias, they wouldn't have let a woman be the producer. Each AC game has had a woman in an important position in someway shape or form.

C.They're trying to quite a polished game with polished mechanics. If this game had only female playable characters with no option to play as a male it would be the same situation as in they don't have time to re-rig and playtest a female model that the player doesn't even see, except no one would be up in arms.

 

[mreddie]

Calling it now, female PC as DLC.

 

[Winterfang]

As long as I don't get wonky as hell running animations like Mass Effect 3....yikes

 

[Sandy Nipples]

You know what would have happened if the Nazis won the war, Ubisoft? No choice in video game protagonist race / gender. You happy with that Ubi? You happy with being a pro neo-nazi organization?

If I want to roleplay a bisexual Indian cyclops in my favorite video game product it should be MY choice Ubi, NOT yours! Respect the fans!

 

[Crossing Eden]

Well that's kinda useless then.

I don't see why story reasons are preventing them from inserting a female version of the main character that you see.

This story has always been based on historical accuracy. There is absolutely no reason to change that. This is not an rpg series.

 

[besada]

If a developer chooses to put something in, or leave something out, is entirely up to them. You can choose to buy it or not.

You can also choose to complain about it. And given the function and habits of this forum, telling people their only option is to buy it or not, is disingenuous at best.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

While I think it would be cool to have a female assassin (I like Aveline, I'd definitely like them to create another), I think a lot of the anger on the net is people thinking that they've actually created four seperate males and excluded women, where actually it's just Arno, everyone sees themselves as Arno and the other Assassin's in co-op is just people's customised Arno, with a face swap.

Which is worse actually! Would have been cool to see a different Assassin group that has access to multiple animuses (animi?) or inception style multiple people attached to one animus.

You can also choose to complain about it. And given the function and habits of this forum, telling people their only option is to buy it or not, is disingenuous at best.

We are free to complain when developers lock the FPS in games but not this?

 

[Orayn]

If a playable female character was put in, then the next argument is that the character is not of a particular race or ethnicity. Next is nationality and stereotyping. And after that the complaint is that the character is not of a particular sexual orientation.

The dreaded slippery slope of depicting people other than straight white men. Truly some horrific stuff.

 

[Galactic Fork]

This story has always been based on historical accuracy. There is absolutely no reason to change that. This is not an rpg series.

Can you clarify please?

B.The producer of this game specifically is a woman. If they had internal bias, they wouldn't have let a woman be the producer. Each AC game has had a woman in an important position in someway shape or form.

Women can have internal biases too.

 

[Kinyou]

More likely answer..

They didn't think about it and are trying to cover their butts after the fact.

To me it seems pretty clear that it just doesn't fit their design vision of combining sp and coop into one experience. Changing the players character model would interfer with that. Everyone sees his character as Aron. The other 3 assassins you see are just stand ins, you don't get to play as them either.

 

[TheWatchGuard]

If they only had an animation library that was specifically for a female MC this all wouldn't have happened.

...whoops!

What is the point of those animations? They have stated repeatedly that everyone plays as the same character Arno in the game. You only look different to other players, so you will be Arno no matter what the story wouldn't make since....does anyone here read anything or do they just strive for controversy? Also now I'm offended I can't play as Larry Croft.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

It's particularly ironic since the most famous assassin during the French Revolution was female.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Corday

The way I see it is if you're a famous assassin you're doing it wrong.

 

[bishopp35]

I think that this is a Marketing screw up.

The co-op seems to involve variations of the same main character and Ubisoft thought that the best way to promote it was by it was by giving the impression that they were different. Because different characters are way more appealing than the same one with different colored costumes.They gave that bullshit answer because they didn't want to "reveal" that it was the same guy and that clearly backfired.

 

[Alucrid]

After how well Freedom Cry was received I found it pretty disappointing that they wouldn't try and explore minorities place within the French Revolution through a playable character.

 

[figadapaura]

This story has always been based on historical accuracy. There is absolutely no reason to change that. This is not an rpg series.

Not completely, let's be honest.

 

[stupei]

This story has always been based on historical accuracy. There is absolutely no reason to change that. This is not an rpg series.

The historical accuracy of vast conspiracies and aliens. Yep.

 

[Hunter S.]

What is the point of those animations? They have stated repeatedly that everyone plays as the same character Arno in the game. You only look different to other players, so you will be Arno no matter what the story wouldn't make since....does anyone here read anything or do they just strive for controversy? Also now I'm offended I can't play as Larry Croft.

Arno should have an optional sex change mission early in the game.

 

[sjay1994]

What is the point of those animations? They have stated repeatedly that everyone plays as the same character Arno in the game. You only look different to other players, so you will be Arno no matter what the story wouldn't make since....does anyone here read anything or do they just strive for controversy? Also now I'm offended I can't play as Larry Croft.

But how does that work? If everyone is Arno, it makes no sense with the animus. How is co-op happening then?

 

[Crossing Eden]

Can you clarify please?
As in they have a set narrative, not customizable characters with dialogue trees.

Women can have internal biases too.

And saying Ubisoft hates women/minorities is basing it off of nothing and blatant denial of their game history.

 

[sjay1994]

The way I see it is if you're a famous assassin you're doing it wrong.

No your not. She is probably your mentor in AC:U.

You never play as famous historical figures in AC.

 

[figadapaura]

But how does that work? If everyone is Arno, it makes no sense with the animus. How is co-op happening then?

The animus is magic.

 

[leatherhat]

Are people really wondering why the annual reheating of assassins creed doesn't seem to have much effort put into it?

 

[Sandy Nipples]

And saying Ubisoft hates women/minorities is basing it off of nothing and blatant denial of their game history.

They could obviously have turned evil through the years, though?

 

[fijim]

A.One look at the AC series answers that question, the answer is no. When has Ubisoft ever implied that they hate women or minorities in a series with tons of minorities?

B.The producer of this game specifically is a woman. If they had internal bias, they wouldn't have let a woman be the producer. Each AC game has had a woman in an important position in someway shape or form.

C.They're trying to quite a polished game with polished mechanics. If this game had only female playable characters with no option to play as a male it would be the same situation as in they don't have time to re-rig and playtest a female model that the player doesn't even see, except no one would be up in arms.

Option A was snarky, I will admit that. My point in including it was that some people seem so outraged that it seems to suggest they they really think it is option A.

I don't think having a female lead, or "hey we have females on our dev team" is an automatic get out of jail free card. That sounds like the "I have a black friend" defense. The internal biases means that they just express themselves in the way they make decisions and write the story. It is not an active choice of "we can't let a women be our boss" or "we don't want to include playable women" decision.

Again, these options were presented as an ALTERNATIVE to those who say this was a money issue related to rigging and animations. These options were not presented at you.

 

[The Librarian]

This story has always been based on historical accuracy. There is absolutely no reason to change that. This is not an rpg series.

There's a reason to change that, if it you feel you need to change it, if you want a female character in a co-op mode.

That's like saying you can never have female co-op partners ever because the story is some insurmountable obstacle that can't be overcome.

 

[TheWatchGuard]

But how does that work? If everyone is Arno, it makes no sense with the animus. How is co-op happening then?

It's the same as Watch Dogs everyone will be playing as Arno but you'll look different to other players and they'll look different to you. It's like with invasions in WD, your both Aiden Pearce. Now could they skin a female character? Sure but even if they did you wouldn't play as her.

 

[captainnapalm]

It's not that every player is Arno, I don't think, it's that they're just re-using the Arno skin for every player in co-op, but he can be customised to look different. Then you can feel free to imagine it's someone different.

 

[Doomburrito7]

I get that a lack of female characters in games is a sore point for a lot of people, but...it's not like this is a case of "multiple male characters, no female characters." There is ONE character. Everyone plays as him.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3...s-lack-of-playable-female-leads/1100-6420397/

I could understand that people would be annoyed if there were multiple characters to chose from, with no females, but that's not the situation. Why is this the example of "negligence" that everyone is rallying behind?

 

[Crossing Eden]

Not completely, let's be honest.

The historical accuracy of vast conspiracies and aliens. Yep.

Historical fiction and a set narrative is a more accurate description.

 

[Galactic Fork]

To me it seems pretty clear that it just doesn't fit their design vision of combining sp and coop into one experience. Changing the players character model would interfer with that. Everyone sees his character as Aron. The other 3 assassins you see are just stand ins, you don't get to play as them either.

Except they'd planned on having some of the stand ins be women. But then cut it. Unless the guy was lying about having planned on it. It fits the idea that random assassins are helping you. Just because you see Arno, doesn't mean other people have to. If another player sees some other random dude assassin, it makes 0 artistic difference if it's a woman. It's still a stand in.

They decided they didn't want to spend the resources on it.

Another question is that when you do co-op, do you always see the same 3 stand ins? Or are there lots of different random assassins?

And saying Ubisoft hates women/minorities is basing it off of nothing and blatant denial of their game history.

But B wasn't about hating women, it was about internal biases.

 

[ab.aeterno]

The concept of complaining about things that developers have left out of their games is completely flawed. There are many many many things in the world. Not all of them can be in every game.

In this case , the developer left out a playable female character. If a playable female character was put in, then the next argument is that the character is not of a particular race or ethnicity. Next is nationality and stereotyping. And after that the complaint is that the character is not of a particular sexual orientation. Eventually thanks to reductio ad absurdum, you get down to hairstyles, particular colour clothes, accents and so on. Its an endless rabbithole that developers do not need follow.

If a developer chooses to put something in, or leave something out, is entirely up to them. You can choose to buy it or not.

Your shouldn't argue the slippery slope fallacy because it's just that: a fallacy.

A developer is free to make what they want, and make whatever creative choices they desire. But that doesn't exempt them from criticism for their choices or the resulting work. If people can criticize games for being designed around business needs like DLC or microtransactions, they can criticize them for their other creative decisions too.

 

[glimmerman]

You can also choose to complain about it. And given the function and habits of this forum, telling people their only option is to buy it or not, is disingenuous at best.

I'm certainly not telling people that buying or not buying it is the only course of action. I'm just pointing out the absurdity of complaining about missing stuff.

 

[Maidenpool?]

All I'm going to say is the people at Ubisoft are not part of some evil cabal to keep women out of video games... they are very nice people like you and me, and had absolutely no intention of hurting anyone's feelings when they made this game.

Their schedule is ridiculous, and creating a female main character to play as would entail a lot more than just creating a model and a few animations... we're talking all new voice work, a few story changes, and probably a male love interest (serious or not) who would be created from scratch.

So many games are being pushed to 2015 and Ubisoft are sticking to the once a year schedule... so people... just take a breath and give these developers the benefit of the doubt. They aren't evil, and they certainly didn't want to cause problems.

 

[Kuldar]

But how does that work? If everyone is Arno, it makes no sense with the animus. How is co-op happening then?

We don't know how they explain it in the context of the AC lore. We'll have to wait for more informations.

 

[TheWatchGuard]

It's not that every player is Arno, I don't think, it's that they're just re-using the Arno skin for every player in co-op, but he can be customised to look different. Then you can feel free to imagine it's someone different.

Development team came out and said that's not true yesterday just gear and skills will be customized.

http://kotaku.com/ubisoft-responds-to-assassins-creed-female-character-co-1589413130