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Deleted member 775630
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But you are not waiting... You are already claiming that it's not enough
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[Digital Foundry] Xbox Series X Complete Specs + Ray Tracing/Gears 5/Back-Compat/Quick Resume Demo Showcase!
- Thread starter Mista
- Start date
pawel86ck
Banned
SDD durability isnt affected during reading. Also memory speed will be not a problem because still the same 16 GB memory will be used, just 2-3 more efficiently than before. According to MS engineers without velocity architecture only about 1/3 allocated memory is used to render what's on the screen, and now finally all available RAM will be used fully. So technically speaking there wont be 32-48GB RAM on XSX, but on PC developers would need 2-3x more physical memory compared to XSX just to accomplish the same thing.
VFXVeteran
Banned
That statement is vague and doesn't reveal any metrics. You are coming to conclusions without knowing ALL the facts. You are implying that the XSX is somehow going to be "faster" than the 2080 just by mentioning this.
Again, no that is not fine. See my previous comments as to why. Yes, I gave an example of a scenario that I tested. Yet, you ignore my tests. It seems that you want to discredit my own experience just so your argument is made to look true. Yet you have no experience yourself with how memory models work in realtime scenario.
And this is the crux of your argument which is why the comparisons of the PC GPUs come up. You are mentioning Nvidia by your own argument, but I can't mention - "High end PCs will have access to more power to run ALL the effects available at 4k@60FPS or very near it with Ampere's release." - so that you can come down off of your pedestal concerning the next-gen consoles? You take a jab at my experience without understanding the scope of what a graphics programmer mean. That's why I made it personal.
Here you go again spouting off YOUR supposed facts as if you programmed a graphics pipeline before. It's in your tone that is the offense, not what you are saying.
This is what brings up topic of ray-tracing. Do you know how a path-tracer works? Have you ever cast rays into a scene to test for polygon intersection? Can you metric an application to see what bottlenecks using Nvidia's Nsight tool debugger give you under certain memory-transfer scenarios?
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VFXVeteran
Banned
It's not that the next-gen consoles can't implement the specific ray-tracing features, it's that the resolution has to be lower than usual to run at interactive framerates.
Mista
Banned
I believe Sony will take this route too like MicrosoftVFXVeteran, any last predictions before PS5 reveal? I hope you were right about 2 SKU, because otherwise it will be not a good day for you.
VFXVeteran
Banned
VFXVeteran, any last predictions before PS5 reveal? I hope you were right about 2 SKU, because otherwise it will be not a good day for you
I don't care. And no, I never had predictions. I only produced numbers based on my sources. If it comes out to be wrong, so be it.
If there are 2 Skus, it might not be shown today. MS still hasn't mentioned their 2nd SKU and we all know that's going to happen.
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Shin
Banned
Given the Anaconda print on the PCB of Series X, I expect Lockhart to become a reality also.
If it's a casual vs. hardcore situation, they could have added Wi-Fi AX to Series X, more memory (20GB which would also widen the bus to 384-bit).
But I guess they really don't want to burn the house to the ground with a $599 price tag as that didn't end up well for Sony back in 2006.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Erm... Xbox One X (scorpio) has... a scorpion. It doesn’t mean anything, it’s just what they put on their boards as an Easter egg.
xool
Member
Damn - there was one on the prototype .. Bluetooth not activated either.. and not even a 3.5mm audio. That's all a lot of soundbars have.
What happened MS ?
Mendou
Banned
That Gears 5 demo running at 100fps native 4k with ultra settings sets the deal that the console might be reaching 2080ti levels of rasterisation performance. As for Ray Tracing, we should probably expect something between 2060-2070 levels of performance.
Use HDMI Audio out. I think modern high quality formats are HDMI-only anyway.
But maybe I remember incorrectly.
Mista
Banned
I think 2080ti might be a bit hard to achieve but still between 2060-2070 isn’t bad at all
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
The raytracing performance is incredible. I was scared after I watched the video and it stuttered, glad to find out it was because of video encoding and actually runs at 30 to 60 fps with four weeks and one programmer. That's crazy. And even full path tracing, that means raytracing with less demanding effects in 60 fps should absolutely be possible. At 1080p of course, and then DirectML does its thing.
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xool
Member
My amp has optical, coaxial, audio, usb audio .. my monitor doesn't have an audio out
nikolino840
Member
Mistershine.
Banned
I can only use stereo as its all my dac accepts, and the added delay of running through the TV makes rocksmith unplayable.
Mista
Banned
Yeah this needs to he known too
KlickKlack
Banned
its for normal people easier to see the difference. you see directly what it does without 300% zoom
I think I had Yamaha AV in 2015 that had HDMI audio with passthrough.
Dunno. Maybe they think yours are too old to support?
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Ascend
Member
Rarely any modern game uses more than 6GB of VRAM at 4k. This has been tested multiple times by multiple websites. Allocated amount of VRAM on a graphics card is generally not the required amount of VRAM.
"A recent example of this was seen on our Resident Evil 2 benchmark. We often saw VRAM allocation go as high as 8.5 GB when testing with the RTX 2080 Ti at 4K, but there was no performance penalty when using a graphics card with only 6GB of VRAM. There was however a big performance penalty for cards with less than 6 GB.
That is to say, while the game will allocate 8GB of VRAM at 4K when available, it appears to be using somewhere between 4 and 6 GB of memory, probably closer to the upper end of that range."
Bottom Line
It's clear that right now, even for 4K gaming, 6GB of VRAM really is enough.
Is 6GB VRAM Enough for 1440p Gaming? Testing Usage with Nvidia's RTX 2060
Today we're investigating claims that the new GeForce RTX 2060 is not a good buy because it only features 6GB VRAM capacity. The RTX 2060 offers performance...
www.techspot.com
Article is a bit old, but not much has changed since then.
Ascend
Member
I don't know. According to a user on resetera, it will be faster than a 2080Ti;
"We know the RDNA2 design has one RT core in each of its TMUs, we know that amd designs have 4 TMUs per compute unit. So for an xbox series X with 52 CUs, at 1825mhz you've got 52 * 4 * 1825mhz = intersections/second, with a 10 deep bvh you divide that 379.6 billion figure by 10 to get 37.96 gigrays/second.
Do that same math for a 2060, or a 2080Ti, or any other turing gpu, turing has one RT core per SM, so for a 2060 you have 30 SMs, and its official turbo clock is 1680mhz, for 50.4 billion intersections, or 5.04 gigrays/sec, nvidia quotes 5 gigrays.
For a 2080Ti you have 68 RT units, at 1545mhz, for 10.56 gigrays, which nvidia also quotes. "
Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation
TSMC 7nm Enhanced So is this the 7nm+ that we saw in previous AMD slides? Curious to know myself how it compares to regular 7nm. I will say this, I was shocked to see this much power crammed I to a die smaller than the One X.
www.resetera.com
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ZywyPL
Banned
Nah. Haters gonna hate, bitches gonna bitch, crybabies gonna cry. Kids who are not interested at all in XBX will always find something to complain about to justify their bias and seek attention by doing so. It's been said clearly enough that all existing XB1 external drives will work on XBX, leaving the internal 1TB SSD solely for next-gen titles. But retards still prefer to force the narrative as if the XBX doesn't have any build-in drive at all and they are forced to buy the external one on day one.
mrBarrelNut
Member
EtherMagic
Member
It's also possible we can get a optical to HDMI adapter, a lot like they did with the Kinect & XOX adapter, as XOX has no plug-in for the Kinect like One S & OG Xbox One had. I received mine free, just had to call MS & it was at my door within the week. People just need to be loud enough & MS will listen.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
It wasn't rendered at 4k.
pawel86ck
Banned
You made a bold claim, so you will either win big or lose big.
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RE2 is a remake of a PS2 game.
They by the nature of game architecture have an easy target.
Next gen games will use much more assets.
But.
We have another extreme, when using virtual texture atlases the memory requirements for one 4K frame are 256Mb (mega bytes) (that's for PC with average ram uncached read ~16Gb/sec)
From here we can calculate actual VRAM requirements based on target frame time/latency.
For example we have SSD with actual uncached read of 2Gb/sec (let's remove the compression figures, and use a lower target than max)
Which is 1/8 of typical PC RAM bw, i.e. it means we need 2GB of VRAM for the same buffer on next-gen console, to read assets from SSD directly(!)
But it's unrealistic, because latency of SSD is higher (although these are resource reads, not too dependent on latency)
Anyway, add high latency and you get to 8-16Gb in a console.
Pretty tight, but doable.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Yes.
is there any info on the rtx 3000 series? they might be about 30 GigaraysI don't know. According to a user on resetera, it will be faster than a 2080Ti;
"We know the RDNA2 design has one RT core in each of its TMUs, we know that amd designs have 4 TMUs per compute unit. So for an xbox series X with 52 CUs, at 1825mhz you've got 52 * 4 * 1825mhz = intersections/second, with a 10 deep bvh you divide that 379.6 billion figure by 10 to get 37.96 gigrays/second.
Do that same math for a 2060, or a 2080Ti, or any other turing gpu, turing has one RT core per SM, so for a 2060 you have 30 SMs, and its official turbo clock is 1680mhz, for 50.4 billion intersections, or 5.04 gigrays/sec, nvidia quotes 5 gigrays.
For a 2080Ti you have 68 RT units, at 1545mhz, for 10.56 gigrays, which nvidia also quotes. "
Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation
TSMC 7nm Enhanced So is this the 7nm+ that we saw in previous AMD slides? Curious to know myself how it compares to regular 7nm. I will say this, I was shocked to see this much power crammed I to a die smaller than the One X.
Ascend
Member
They tested more games at 4K. Maybe now we've reached 8GB-ish for VRAM. Next gen games will indeed use more, but the console really is up to standards. It is in fact more powerful than the majority of gaming PCs out there. How many people have a Zen 2 class CPU with at least 8C/16T, combined with at least an RTX 2080? Most people are rocking RTX 2060 - RTX 2070S performance cards with an R5 3600 CPU.
The
There is misunderstanding here. The demo shown was 4K, but there was no mention of frame rate. They did state that it was around 2080 performance though in the internal benchmark. The 100 fps comment didn’t specify the res or settings. Just that they already have it running at around 100fps and will be considering a 120 fps mode.
If it was using PC approach of load+run - it's not up to standards (for the next 5-7 years?)
But if it relies on data streaming everywhere - it is.
I just hope that typical multiplat developers won't cry and whine again...they will, whom I kidding.
They stated that initial cutscene was running on 4k@60 locked vs @30 locked in the original. IIRC.
cutscene........................ NOT GAMEPLAY
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Mattyp
Not the YouTuber
You still haven't told me a system or tech capable that exists today of plugging nvme speed drives into a exterior port on any kind of hardware. I'll continue to wait don't worry.
Once they don't allow any other hdd manufactures to do this then bitch. But until then name me the other solution.
ZywyPL
Banned
I mentioned this is some other thread as well, it is exactly that, probably even better.
Nero_PR
Banned
I stopped doing that. I had 20+ games (obvious not all of them are triple A games with 60+ gigs) and I wasn't playing all of them or even playing half of them. Thinking back it was more a hoarding issue than anything else, but that is because I can download them quickly with my internet. It would all be different if I had a slow ass internet.
These days I am using just 4 to 5 games at a time. With this approach, I started to play a lot of my backlog.
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alabtrosMyster
Member
We had replaceable HDDs in the Playstation systems since they have had them... and this is not like a disk the size the series x has transferring 2 500MB/sec is unheard of, so they should have put a small "door" on the side where you could place a standard mid-range nvme drive... if the drive had much faster speeds they could argue that it is something "special".
Also, the USB drive is now limited in use.
MisterXDTV
Member
Just buy a cheap HDMI Audio Extractor
Nero_PR
Banned
Cleaning and repair, in general, will so much more user friendly. I hope PS5 goes with the same mentality. (I hate to open it up for cleaning the heatsink)
Kenpachii
Member
I have a different look on it.
The idea about xbox360 was to bring PC gaming towards console space with a easy platform to develop on for developers. PS3 was a clusterfuck of garbage that sony kept alive but honestly nobody wanted to bother with it at the end it was very much a meme under developers. which resulted in a PS4 which was more designed like the xbox360 before it and massively succesful with developers because its easy to develop for.
The big selling point about that console was that it was a PC architecture and had lots of ram to work with so there were no constraints anymore what holded there last box down, with xbox one actually falling behind on this front made the PS4 shine for everybody for all kinds of reasons.
Sadly we see a repeat now of last generation PS3, where most likely lots of GPU activity is going to be slammed on the CPU because the GPU simple can't render it. Now 12tflops of RDNA2 which i honestly think is going to perform like a 2080ti at the end of the generation or pretty soon even because of other reasons however the jump to 4k 60 fps and raytracing, ssd traffic and cpu > gpu data transfers is going to slam the memory and gpu core hard and with that a generation leap forwards. Memory is the indeed the weak spot of this box that could make the box overly complex to develop for at the end.
Now obviously devs could stay in this generation with ram usage but honestly is it a next generation console at that point? And this makes microsoft reasoning about there line up of consoles that support all there games even more valid. They probably don't even see it as a next generation console but just a 4k 60 fps raytracing with faster loading current gen box. Which explains the naming after all its a series X.
This also means in my view that comparing the 8 core which will have core or cores locked for security probably additional tasks done on the CPU that PC doesn't have to worry about and a resolution on the GPU they push which again pc gamers don't have to worry about not really comparable.
While the stats do look nice and high end and they sure aren't bad even remotely, a 3600 ryzen guy with a 8gb of v-ram card and about 1080 performance will probably stay relevant for a very very long time as result.
Also
I do think microsoft didn't had much a choice on this front tho, however spending just a bit more and taking a hit on 24gb of ram would probably be preferable and i honestly aspect sony to do just that and be praised by everybody for it once again.
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Mistershine.
Banned
This is mine:
This is mine:
Audiophiles should suffer.
But really, that's not a MSFT problem.
Anyway, they may have SPDIF in the final version.
GaviotaGrande
Banned
mrBarrelNut
Member
I don't think so. Sampler Feedback is kinda recording the usage of texture data for better undestanding which mip levels of textures are actually needed. Use cases are 1) Streaming 2) Texture space shading.
With this system in place, memory and memory bandwidth savings can be substantial.
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