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Doctor Who |OT| Pre-Series 8 Discussion - He's A-Coming

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RichardAM

Kwanzaagator
Sorry if this has been brought up or answered already but what time slot are they going with this season?

I know it's on the 23rd but is there an actual air time yet?
 
S

Slowdive

Banned
RichardAM said:
Sorry if this has been brought up or answered already but what time slot are they going with this season?

I know it's on the 23rd but is there an actual air time yet?
Click to expand...

Not yet, but I'm pretty sure a German channel who is apparently simulcasting it is listing it as 8pm UK time so it's probably that.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
APZonerunner said:
Doctors always have a degree more control than most people realize, I think. Matt just didn't exercise it very often, perhaps because he wasn't as much of a fan and so had less preconceptions about what the character should be. Tennant fairly often would ring Davies from the set and ask to change lines or stage directions because he didn't think they fit, and things. One that comes to mind is Gridlock, where when they all sing the hymn the Doctor was scripted as being moved by it, and offered sympathy to the pair whose car he was in at the time. It was Tennant who put his foot down and said "he wouldn't be sympathetic, he would be horrified and borderline angry," and so the script - and, IMO, a lot of the tone of the episode - shifted as a result.
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Tennant confirmed for greatest genius to ever grace Doctor Who.
 
A

acheron_xl

Member
That's the stuff I've been hoping for from Capaldi's involvement. He's too big a fan, has too much clout, and too much experience to not be something of a shadow showrunner. I'm way fucking hyped now.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Slowdive said:
Full interview here.
Click to expand...

There's some... interesting editorializing going on with this writer. He calls Capaldi translucent like, 4 times. And then there's these paragraphs.

Capaldi comes at a good time for the programme. Since its recommissioning after a 16-year hiatus, the Doctors have been regenerating into ever-younger lunchbox candy. Christopher Eccleston (41), David Tennant (34), then Matt Smith (28). With it, the plot lines, much to the chagrin of die-hard Whovians, have become more Twilight. There has been flirting and smooching. There has been a will-they, won’t-they dynamic between the Doctor and his sidekick, Clara. We were one nibble short of a hickey.

Following the age trajectory, the next Doctor would have been 23, and all would have been lost. Or, to be terribly 21st century, he could have been a she. Or Idris Elba — a favourite, although he may have been the unnamed black actor who turned down the role last time. Instead, the BBC went for a TV geriatric.

“There’ll be no flirting, that’s for sure,” he says. “It’s not what this Doctor’s concerned with. It’s quite a fun relationship, but no, I did call and say, ‘I want no Papa-Nicole moments.’ I think there was a bit of tension with that at first, but I was absolutely adamant.”

What will there be, then? Is the 12th Doctor an old codger like Hartnell? Will he be a more modern fiftysomething, a time lord who can work an iPad? Executive producer Steven Moffat has said he’ll be older, trickier, fiercer. Mark Gatiss, the best writer on the show, says the new doctor “has a madness in his eyes”.
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Uh-huh.
 
C

CloudyTuba

Member
JoeM86 said:
It is now in the UK from the BBC Shop: http://www.bbcshop.com/doctor-who/d...ary-collectors-edition-blu-ray/invt/bbcbd0271
50th_collectors_bd_h_600.jpg
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Wishing they would release this in the US. Even if it ends up being region free, the 1080i/50hz might not jive well with my electronics.

His skin is translucent with wonderment. He’s hugging his ribs nostalgically.
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Youre right, this article is really weird.

the plot lines, much to the chagrin of die-hard Whovians, have become more Twilight.
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...

Mark Gatiss, the best writer on the show
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Oh fuck no. Come on, Matt Rudd.
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
BrokenFiction said:
Capaldi confirmed as actual secret showrunner, since he's been a fan since a wee lad.
Click to expand...

Moffatt: "So er... Peter. I was thinking this series the Doctor's mother keeps popping up everywhere, and The Doctor has to find her, and he keeps referring to it as "THE IMPOSSIBLE QUEST"... and we'd build it up in episodes and..."

Peter: *twirling cane* "No.. no, Steven. I don't think we're doing that at all."
 
K

Kurdel

Banned
MasterBalls said:
Moffatt: "So er... Peter. I was thinking this series the Doctor's mother keeps popping up everywhere, and The Doctor has to find her, and he keeps referring to it as "THE IMPOSSIBLE QUEST"... and we'd build it up in episodes and..."

Peter: *twirling cane* "No.. no, Steven. I don't think we're doing that at all."
Click to expand...

Holy shit, that is so Moffat lol
 
F

Fireblend

Banned
Yeah WTF @ that interview. The writer drifts and drifts aimlessly and tries to make it about himself in the weirdest, most awkwardly self-aggrandizing way possible. Everything Capaldi said sounds awesome though. I wish the actual article was about the 2 paragraphs he contributed to it rather than everything else.
 
T

teiresias

Member
MasterBalls said:
Moffatt: "So er... Peter. I was thinking this series the Doctor's mother keeps popping up everywhere, and The Doctor has to find her, and he keeps referring to it as "THE IMPOSSIBLE QUEST"... and we'd build it up in episodes and..."

Peter: *twirling cane* "No.. no, Steven. I don't think we're doing that at all."
Click to expand...

I legit LOL'd while eating lunch!
 
P

paradox121

Member
A snippet from an Empire magazine interview that will come out on Thurs:

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=41676

Elaborating on the kind of man this new Doctor will be, Capaldi stressed his enigmatic qualities. "He's more alien than he's been for a while," he explained. "He doesn't quite understand human beings or really care very much about their approval." His co-star agreed. "With Matt's Doctor [Clara] felt quite safe, really," said Coleman. "She knew she'd be caught if she was in danger, but this guy is a lot less human-friendly and a lot less patient. He's more removed and accessible. You can't quite access him in the same way."
Click to expand...

Also some nifty pictures, including Jenna looking hideous as ever
Be still my beating heart.
 
F

Fine Ham Abounds

Member
For some reason it never occurred to me to look for a Doctor Who OT on GAF. Shame on me.

Exterminieren said:
Now, this is interesting, and I'm keen to read people's opinions on it.

From the same blog as the Julie Gardner appreciation post I linked a while back- An analysis of the Feminism and Sexism of Moffat's Who, and where it falls into the history of the series.
Click to expand...

Reading now, but I'm not a tremendous fan of JNT anyways. Early on in the article, I just want to be a pig and say Nicola Bryant is still hot as fuck. I will never forgive her for that American accent though.

What little we've seen of Capaldi is giving me weird vibes like a mish mash of Pertwee, Troughton, and Eccleston. I'm eager to see how this plays out.
 
P

paradox121

Member
Exterminieren said:
Now, this is interesting, and I'm keen to read people's opinions on it.

From the same blog as the Julie Gardner appreciation post I linked a while back- An analysis of the Feminism and Sexism of Moffat's Who, and where it falls into the history of the series.
Click to expand...

Super interesting read.

I never put much value in whether one specific era (or DW in general) is or isn't sexist, but I did think this one line was an eye-opener:

The Doctor isn't the life of any of his companions under Moffat.
Click to expand...

I've never really considered it like that before. For all the criticisms of River being a Mary Sue character, Amy being some horrible flirt and Clara being...well nothing, it is true that they all have their own lives and that the Doctor is the one intruding. None of the female characters particularly depend on the Doctor. They may in some way be influenced or even attached to him, but they're happy to go off and lead their own lives. Really great little piece.
 
F

Fine Ham Abounds

Member
Rose always seemed like a Mary Sue to me, or at least closer to the textbook definition. River falls into roughly the same category, but she seemed to spend more time correcting the Doctor than fawning over him. Felt more like someone's fanfic superhero injected into an existing superhero comic to upstage them.
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
Exterminieren said:
Now, this is interesting, and I'm keen to read people's opinions on it.

From the same blog as the Julie Gardner appreciation post I linked a while back- An analysis of the Feminism and Sexism of Moffat's Who, and where it falls into the history of the series.
Click to expand...

I am not going to lie, this one completely made me "oh shit, I should just shut up and not voice any opinions on sexism/feminism from now on", because I have to admit that I was criticizing Moffat somewhat unconsciously as well, and it might have been because that seemed to be the path of least resistance.

Well presented points, and although while reading this, I just wanted to say "Donna, Donna, Donna", I am not sure if that is a counterargument or not. Yeah, Donna is brainwashed but she remains an independent woman, one with a life and remains quite strong as well. When the Doctor had to say goodbye, it was the Doctor's tragedy, not Donna's. But that is really an exception, is it?*

*Same way I wanted to say "but Amy dies too", before thinking it through and realizing that Amy and Rory lived off their lives, just apart from the Doctor. That again was the Doctor's tragedy, not Amy's.
 
T

teiresias

Member
I think all of RTD's companions basically lived with the Doctor in the Tardis when they were regulars (and obviously not Donna until she became a regular). Amy and Rory were the same way for a while, but then after she and Rory are actually married they seemed to go off and it's implied that every episode is just one off adventures from their point of view (which is obvious given the Doctor's changing age between those episodes). Clara explicitly has her own life.

It'd be interesting for a couple of series's to have a standing "roster" of companions that each episode could cycle through - to emphasize that many times you're seeing the Doctor and companions after they haven't seen each other for a while each week, though it would make casting, scheduling, and scripting a series a pain I'm sure.
 
P

paradox121

Member
V_Arnold said:
I am not going to lie, this one completely made me "oh shit, I should just shut up and not voice any opinions on sexism/feminism from now on", because I have to admit that I was criticizing Moffat somewhat unconsciously as well, and it might have been because that seemed to be the path of least resistance.

Well presented points, and although while reading this, I just wanted to say "Donna, Donna, Donna", I am not sure if that is a counterargument or not. Yeah, Donna is brainwashed but she remains an independent woman, one with a life and remains quite strong as well. When the Doctor had to say goodbye, it was the Doctor's tragedy, not Donna's. But that is really an exception, is it?*

*Same way I wanted to say "but Amy dies too", before thinking it through and realizing that Amy and Rory lived off their lives, just apart from the Doctor. That again was the Doctor's tragedy, not Amy's.
Click to expand...

I think the common argument against Donna, as you say, is the brainwashing part. It's a man actively taking something away from a woman who entirely lacks agency in that situation. As dark as it is, maybe Donna would have been happy having her brain melt if only to retain the memories. And you can argue that that was a part of the Tenth Doctor's egotistic tendencies, or that it was a simple case of wanting Donna to live on while not with the Doctor but its still handled fairly poorly.

Also her 'second' ending, where it's basically implied all she needs to live happily is money (and a man) ain't great either.

I should say, though, that I love Donna, and outside of her ending she's a pretty fantastically written character.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
paradox121 said:
Super interesting read.

I never put much value in whether one specific era (or DW in general) is or isn't sexist, but I did think this one line was an eye-opener:

I've never really considered it like that before. For all the criticisms of River being a Mary Sue character, Amy being some horrible flirt and Clara being...well nothing, it is true that they all have their own lives and that the Doctor is the one intruding. None of the female characters particularly depend on the Doctor. They may in some way be influenced or even attached to him, but they're happy to go off and lead their own lives. Really great little piece.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing, though: I get that, but Moffat's episodes never give me a sense that Amy and Rory, or Clara, have their own lives, even if the way the episodes are sandwiched/set makes that argument. Rose, for instance, definitely has a life, and one she definitively chooses to leave behind. That makes the fact she goes off gallivanting and chooses to make the Doctor her life all the more effective to my eyes, really, because we see how her selfish actions utterly destroys Mickey and Jackie's lives.

Until Brian showed up there was really no element of seeing what their life actually was (beyond one-off vignette scenes such as "oh, Amy's a model now" or one-off lines where she says she's a travel writer) in any real sense.

The whole point behind Rose is that she's selfish and she chooses to leave her life behind, and the whole point of Martha is that she's ultimately smarter than that in the end. One of my great problems with Amy is that there's just this void as far as that stuff goes - Amy has more going on in her life than Rose, but because we're told and not shown, to me, at least, it all feels a lot less real.
 
L

Loke13

Member
APZonerunner said:
Here's the thing, though: I get that, but Moffat's episodes never give me a sense that Amy and Rory, or Clara, have their own lives,
Click to expand...
How so? That was pretty much the whole point of The Power of Three not to mention in the 50th we see Clara starting work as a school teacher which is a profession that also seems to continue into this season not to mention in the Christmas Special we see Clara inviting 11 to a family Christmas dinner.

Seems to me they very much had lives outside of the Doctor's.
 
B

Blader

Member
APZonerunner said:
The whole point behind Rose is that she's selfish and she chooses to leave her life behind, and the whole point of Martha is that she's ultimately smarter than that in the end. One of my great problems with Amy is that there's just this void as far as that stuff goes - Amy has more going on in her life than Rose, but because we're told and not shown, to me, at least, it all feels a lot less real.
Click to expand...

Wasn't that the point of Amy though? Her whole life was stolen away by the crack in her room -- there's supposed to be a void there.

I mean, it's a convenient cop-out to be sure, but I think she was intentionally written that way rather than some sexist-centric negligence on Moffat's part.
 
P

paradox121

Member
APZonerunner said:
Here's the thing, though: I get that, but Moffat's episodes never give me a sense that Amy and Rory, or Clara, have their own lives, even if the way the episodes are sandwiched/set makes that argument. Rose, for instance, definitely has a life, and one she definitively chooses to leave behind. That makes the fact she goes off gallivanting and chooses to make the Doctor her life all the more effective to my eyes, really, because we see how her selfish actions utterly destroys Mickey and Jackie's lives.

Until Brian showed up there was really no element of seeing what their life actually was (beyond one-off vignette scenes such as "oh, Amy's a model now" or one-off lines where she says she's a travel writer) in any real sense.

The whole point behind Rose is that she's selfish and she chooses to leave her life behind, and the whole point of Martha is that she's ultimately smarter than that in the end. One of my great problems with Amy is that there's just this void as far as that stuff goes - Amy has more going on in her life than Rose, but because we're told and not shown, to me, at least, it all feels a lot less real.
Click to expand...

But I think you're approaching from a characterisation rather than a sexism angle (I hate to use the word sexism, by the way, because it feels like I'm branding one era as being misogynistic when I'm really not).

Im not refuting the fact that as a character, Rose is significantly more fleshed out than any companion before or since. But when you place her against Donna and Martha, the primary representations of female characters in the RTD era, they all exist in this 'world of the Doctor'.

Rose is dependant on the Doctor to the extent that she needs to be shafted with a two-bit clone to satiate her.

Martha leaves the TARDIS because the Doctor doesn't notice her. Therefore implying that she didn't care about all that exploring the universe crap, all she wanted was his attention.

Donna is admittedly better but still depends on the Doctor to 'improve' her, and then has that ending.

Amy, Clara and River, in comparison, very much travel with the Doctor on their terms. As the writer says, they have their own lives and the Doctor basically just pops in and out. We may see more of Rose's home life than Clara's, for instance, but it's only presented under the pretext of telling the audience of how sucky it is and how much better the Doctor is.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
I imagine the complaints of Moffat being sexist will largely die out if the next season is really as devoid of flirting as it seems, and they'll be forced to find another avenue to develop Clara with.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
paradox121 said:
I think the common argument against Donna, as you say, is the brainwashing part. It's a man actively taking something away from a woman who entirely lacks agency in that situation. As dark as it is, maybe Donna would have been happy having her brain melt if only to retain the memories. And you can argue that that was a part of the Tenth Doctor's egotistic tendencies, or that it was a simple case of wanting Donna to live on while not with the Doctor but its still handled fairly poorly.

Also her 'second' ending, where it's basically implied all she needs to live happily is money (and a man) ain't great either.

I should say, though, that I love Donna, and outside of her ending she's a pretty fantastically written character.
Click to expand...

It has been pointed out that in the RTD era, the Doctor taking power away from women in pretty much direct and explicit ways is actually a pattern that's repeated. Usually "for their own good." The notable examples being Rose in Parting of the Ways (with a kiss no less), Harriet Jones (by pointing out she 'looks tired') in The Christmas Invasion, and obviously in the context of this discussion Donna. Possibly there are other examples in the specials I don't remember fondly or well.
 
W

whatsinaname

Member
Where might I find a list of theatres in the US showing the first episode? I see a listing in my local theatre (for 25th Aug) but the running time seems to be 1hr 40 mins.
 
D

Dryk

Member
APZonerunner said:
Doctors always have a degree more control than most people realize, I think. Matt just didn't exercise it very often, perhaps because he wasn't as much of a fan and so had less preconceptions about what the character should be. Tennant fairly often would ring Davies from the set and ask to change lines or stage directions because he didn't think they fit, and things. One that comes to mind is Gridlock, where when they all sing the hymn the Doctor was scripted as being moved by it, and offered sympathy to the pair whose car he was in at the time. It was Tennant who put his foot down and said "he wouldn't be sympathetic, he would be horrified and borderline angry," and so the script - and, IMO, a lot of the tone of the episode - shifted as a result.
Click to expand...
Tennant, where the hell were you during The End of Time...
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
paradox121 said:
But I think you're approaching from a characterisation rather than a sexism angle (I hate to use the word sexism, by the way, because it feels like I'm branding one era as being misogynistic when I'm really not).
Click to expand...

True enough - I am probably looking at it through the wrong lens, yeah.

Dryk said:
Tennant, where the hell were you during The End of Time...
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He wanted a lot of that stuff; he wanted his raging against the dying of the light scenes and whatnot, and wanted to go at it hard. Background-wise he's a Shakespearean stage actor at heart, so that's no surprise.
 
I

Ikabu

Neo Member
whatsinaname said:
Where might I find a list of theatres in the US showing the first episode? I see a listing in my local theatre (for 25th Aug) but the running time seems to be 1hr 40 mins.
Click to expand...

I can't help you with the US cinemas, but according to my local cinema the episode will also include "15 minutes of exclusive content not available through TV: 5 minutes of specially scripted content to play before the feature and 10 minutes of behind the scenes post the main feature." That might account for the longer running time: 75min episode + 15min extra + 10min ads?
 
I

iamalegionnaire

Member
The official Doctor Who Facebook page used a picture of my wife from Comic-Con last week in one of their posts today. Pretty awesome, I'm proud of her. Even if like 80% of the comments are "bigger on the inside" jokes.
goG5ApI.jpg
 
F

Future Foundation

Member
iamalegionnaire said:
The official Doctor Who Facebook page used a picture of my wife from Comic-Con last week in one of their posts today. Pretty awesome, I'm proud of her. Even if like 80% of the comments are "bigger on the inside" jokes.
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I saw that pic earlier today. Your wife did an awesome job.

EDIT: There's always been something about the use of "don't you think she looks tired" against Moffat that's rubbed me the wrong way.

That line's original use was the stripping away of a female character's power/agency, and it's being used as a cute "rallying cry".
 
A

Ambient80

Member
iamalegionnaire said:
The official Doctor Who Facebook page used a picture of my wife from Comic-Con last week in one of their posts today. Pretty awesome, I'm proud of her. Even if like 80% of the comments are "bigger on the inside" jokes.
goG5ApI.jpg
Click to expand...
Pretty lady in a pretty dress, I like it! The key on the necklace is a nice touch, and I like she used the light on a staff instead of a dorky hat like I usually see. Very cool outfit!
 
W

whatsinaname

Member
Ikabu said:
I can't help you with the US cinemas, but according to my local cinema the episode will also include "15 minutes of exclusive content not available through TV: 5 minutes of specially scripted content to play before the feature and 10 minutes of behind the scenes post the main feature." That might account for the longer running time: 75min episode + 15min extra + 10min ads?
Click to expand...

That might explain the running time, thanks.
 
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