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Doctor Who |OT| Pre-Series 8 Discussion - He's A-Coming

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F

Fireblend

Banned
I think an opening inspired by that fan render could be really awesome, just don't make it all about the cogs. Actually, it'd be hard to do worse than 11's last OP, it's not like the bar is really high. That was just plain bad, except for the face bit.

Also they should bring back 10's opening's music. Way better than all we've got since.
 
P

paradox121

Member
I'm happy to be the only person sad to see the Series 7 Part 2 opening go. I would describe it as a 'hot mess' in the best possible terms.
 
V

Vincent Alexander

Member
Is there a place online that summarizes how time travel works, in relation to Doctor Who? My brain hurts because of so many contradictions within the show, or at least what I think are contradictions? I'm near the end of season 4, and I can't even remember what doesn't make sense anymore. Please help!
 
S

StopMakingSense

Member
Vincent Alexander said:
Is there a place online that summarizes how time travel works, in relation to Doctor Who? My brain hurts because of so many contradictions within the show, or at least what I think are contradictions? I'm near the end of season 4, and I can't even remember what doesn't make sense anymore. Please help!
Click to expand...

The rules are very mushy, but there are a couple general themes:

1. Any thing / any time period they affect in the course of their own continuity is fine, but they cannot go back and affect what they've already done (this is ignored every now and then).

2. There are fixed points in time that cannot be changed. Huge important events that set whole huge courses of causality. Like the events of Waters on Mars, for example.
 
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Vincent Alexander

Member
Gotcha. OKay, thank you. One last question...and maybe I'm thinking about this too hard.

Let's say a villain shows up "present day" in the show and wants to destroy the Earth. They won't win, because we've seen Earth in the future. Right? And destroying the Earth seems like a huge event that would certainly completely shift things, so I'd imagine the survival of the Earth itself in present day is set in stone. And if the Earth is set in stone, and the Doctor has a knowledge of history and time, shouldn't he already be aware of the villain that shows up to destroy everything? Shouldn't he be completely unsurprised by all of them? Like "Oh yeah...they showed up in 2009 and Bob defeated them" or whatever. Why doesn't he have this knowledge? Or would we say the villain showing up to destroy things is new in the time spectrum, therefore outside of a Time Lord's knowledge? Outside of expected history? But again, wouldn't that then mean they are on the path to change something set in stone? OR is it all right for a villain to show up and potentially attempt to change something set in stone, as the universe doesn't care if someone tries---its the fact that in the end they fail, and all is right with the world as these moments set in stone haven't altered. But again, if THIS were the case, shouldn't the Doctor already have knowledge of the event? Or is the Doctor himself the thing that is new, dropped into the mix?

My brain hurts...
 
T

tuffy

Member
Vincent Alexander said:
Gotcha. OKay, thank you. One last question...and maybe I'm thinking about this too hard.

Let's say a villain shows up "present day" in the show and wants to destroy the Earth. They won't win, because we've seen Earth in the future. Right?
Click to expand...
This comes up explicitly in "the Pyramids of Mars". Sarah suggests that the villains can't win since she knows the world didn't end in 1911, so the Doctor takes them forward to 1980 to show that everything in the "present day" has been wiped out by Sutekh. Thus, they have no choice but to go back and put a stop to his plan.
 
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SigmasonicX

Member
Time is in constant flux, so the Doctor has little idea of how any time period will be beyond the basics, and even those can be really screwed up (see "The Long Game").

There's a scene in the old series episode "The Pyramids of Mars" that takes place in the 1930's or some such. The Doctor and his companion at the time, Sarah Jane Smith (you may know her from the new series), safely get back to the TARDIS and Sarah suggests going back to the present. The Doctor takes her to the present, only it's now a wasteland due to what the villain of the episode did. If the Doctor doesn't stop the villains of the past, the present and future will be changed.

In "The Shakespeare Code", the Doctor explains this to Martha by comparing it to Back to the Future.

As for why the villain's plans didn't really matter until the Doctor became aware of them, the show words it as being because once you become involved in an event, you can only travel along the timeline of that event. So it's like the Doctor is going back to a branch in the path of time, and by becoming involved in an event, he is forced to continue down that branch in the path.
 
D

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Additionally, there is the idea that the TARDIS purposely takes the Doctor to where (and when) he is needed. So when the Doctor arrives in an era he doesn't quite know if he could theoretically just leave or if he "has" to take an active part in the events.
 
V

Vincent Alexander

Member
Gotcha. Okay. That helps a lot. I think I can go back to watching and feel satisfied in how it all works. Thank you much, everyone. Time to keep plowing along so I can be ready for season 8.
 
C

ClivePwned

Member
yep, don't get too attached to any 'rules' as they will change depending on the needs of a particular story. Or even within a story. Or within a scene.
 
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SigmasonicX

Member
Yeah, there's a famous example of extreme rule breaking in the season 5 Christmas special "A Christmas Carol", where the Doctor alters a man's past while he's watching his own home videos--like in that one Criss Angel parody video.
 
T

Trike

Member
SigmasonicX said:
Yeah, there's a famous example of extreme rule breaking in the season 5 Christmas special "A Christmas Carol", where the Doctor alters a man's past while he's watching his own home videos--like in that one Criss Angel parody video.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the original "fuck everything" episode from the 2005 series, "Father's Day". If they were consistent with that episode, much of the series would be dedicated to fending off Reapers. The Angels Take Manhattan would have been a vastly different episode.
 
D

Dryk

Member
It's very hard to reconcile things like fixed points with Pyramids of Mars and Father's Day. But overall its pretty consistently indicated that the entire timeline changes along a higher "time" dimension. For instance, the series 5 finale. The universe always existed, then it never existed, then it always existed again.

As for the Pyramids of Mars thing, the timeline is very far out of whack but it's possible that it manages to bring itself back by the time it needs to. Or it's not possible to reconcile.
 
T

Trike

Member
Dryk said:
It's very hard to reconcile things like fixed points with Pyramids of Mars and Father's Day. But overall its pretty consistently indicated that the entire timeline changes along a higher "time" dimension. For instance, the series 5 finale. The universe always existed, then it never existed, then it always existed again.

As for the Pyramids of Mars thing, the timeline is very far out of whack but it's possible that it manages to bring itself back by the time it needs to. Or it's not possible to reconcile.
Click to expand...

I believe most specialists on the matter refer to time as both wibbly and wobbly, yes? With some timey and/or whimey, if I recall correctly.
 
J

Joqu

Member
Did anyone in here pick up that War Doctor book? That's out now isn't it? Kinda curious if it's actually any good.
 
S

SpacePirate Ridley

Member
aHebrewMenagerie said:
Possible (non-story) spoilers follow:

According to the leaked scripts, the title sequence to series 8 is based on a title sequence created by this guy
Click to expand...

I prefer the effects NeonVisual did with the space ones,
they idea of the clogs
could be interesting if done better that in that video though.
I sure hope they dont do
the face thing on the reflection though
, or if it is, is done MUCH better.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Vincent Alexander said:
Gotcha. Okay. That helps a lot. I think I can go back to watching and feel satisfied in how it all works. Thank you much, everyone. Time to keep plowing along so I can be ready for season 8.
Click to expand...

A particular complaint I had about the last three seasons is that the already-fuzzy rules make even less sense. Don't expect a lot of story cohesion, just enjoy the fun bits.
 
Q

Quick Mustard

Member
Anyone know the broadcast time of this yet?

Empire has it at 19:35 and Cineworld has it at 19:00

I have tickets to Empire, so I know i'll see it, just weird theres such a big difference in time.
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
Went to the Doctor Who Experience today as part of the Cardiff Premiere Pilgrimage. Do the Matt stuff before it goes, of course.

Sort of weird to go through new (to me) Matt stuff, and him on his funny form etc. Really enjoyed the Experience, but they haven't half lit it in a way making it impossible to take a decent picture without an expensive camera. But very cool with how current it is. Glad they keep it up to date, but at cost and that much of it is based on the interactive thing, you're not really going to go back too often to see new additions...

Which made me think. There's a thing you can pay to have your photo on the TARDIS, but it's greenscreened. And thus terrible. There's three TARDIS sets there. Charge to take a properly lit, stupidly good photo on those, surely?!

Who else is there on Thurs? Who-GAF assemble!
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
JonathanEx said:
Went to the Doctor Who Experience today as part of the Cardiff Premiere Pilgrimage. Do the Matt stuff before it goes, of course.

Sort of weird to go through new (to me) Matt stuff, and him on his funny form etc. Really enjoyed the Experience, but they haven't half lit it in a way making it impossible to take a decent picture without an expensive camera. But very cool with how current it is. Glad they keep it up to date, but at cost and that much of it is based on the interactive thing, you're not really going to go back too often to see new additions...

Which made me think. There's a thing you can pay to have your photo on the TARDIS, but it's greenscreened. And thus terrible. There's three TARDIS sets there. Charge to take a properly lit, stupidly good photo on those, surely?!

Who else is there on Thurs? Who-GAF assemble!
Click to expand...
Funny you say this, actually- Capaldi was at the Experience yesterday to film scenes for the revamp they're doing to it later this year.

I'll be there on Thursday, little sister in tow. Currently trying to convince her not to wear her fez- so last Doctor.
 
C

Carn82

Member
Fireblend said:
Just got done watching An Adventure in Space and Time (the documentary). That was... extremely sugar coated, wasn't it? Fan-service and cameos everywhere, tons of winking and nudging for Tennant and Smith fans (not to mention
Smith's cameo
right at the very end), and the story made it seem like three people ran the whole thing.

Still, I can't say I'm totally disappointed since I still was entertained, though it was definitely not the faithful historical document I was expecting. Any other good documentary on old who I might want to watch?
Click to expand...

II really liked it. Then again, it's not a documentary but a dramatized account of the early years, that's a big difference ;)
 
Q

Quick

Banned
F

funkystudent

Member
paradox121 said:
I'm happy to be the only person sad to see the Series 7 Part 2 opening go. I would describe it as a 'hot mess' in the best possible terms.
Click to expand...

Just got to 7.2 now and yeah... the Intro is ok but it sort of reminds me of the cover art for Metallica's Load and Reload albums that some artist made by mixing his blood and sperm.
 
J

Joqu

Member
googleplex said:
What's the name of the book?
Click to expand...

Engines of War, yeah

doctor-who-engines-of-war-hq-300x465.jpg
 
S

Slowdive

Banned
Nice interview with Capaldi.

615x330_b5.jpg


Also Moffat talks about online episodes.

“We’ll certainly do some more. We’ll do more prequels and stuff. I’ve been in to talk to the channel controller of iPlayer and say ‘We need proper money for it’, and they’re very keen. And we don’t call them prequels, we don’t call them minisodes, we just call them Doctor Who. That’s all they are. As I say, why not do an episode that’s ten minutes? Or an episode that’s half an hour? It depends what it suits.”
Click to expand...
 
M

M.Bluth

Member
Quick said:
Tomorrow appears to be the worldwide premiere. I think it's safe to get the Series 8 OT posted very soon.
Click to expand...

Apparently, there's also a Q&A, so that's gonna be nice.
I just hope the fans that get to see it tomorrow will be sympathetic with the rest of us regarding spoilers
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
V

Vincent Alexander

Member
So I just watched Season 4 Episode 15 "The Next Doctor". Wow. I was not expecting to like this episode, as it felt kinda crammed into the middle of a large arcing story. It was damn good! There were a few scenes in here that were really well shot, especially compared to how the rest of the show has been. The plot was solid. The dialogue fantastic. But most of all, the guy playing Blake Johnson (the "Doctor") was a damn good actor. Every scene between him and Tenant were good. I love when the show gets a little dark and somber. There were so many good lines, and they were only better with Blake's delivery. My favorite had to be when Rosita asked the doctor if she could help with Blake's bad dreams, and Blake replied with something along the line of "For all the terrible things a time lord has seen, all he has lost, he must surely have bad dreams".

I'm a bit confused that Netflix showed this as episode 15, and the next episode is 17 "Water on Mars". Where is 16?!
 
I

infiniteloop

Member
Vincent Alexander said:
But most of all, the guy playing Blake Johnson (the "Doctor") was a damn good actor.!
Click to expand...

walking-dead-governor-shooting-gif.gif


*Jackson Lake


I'm a bit confused that Netflix showed this as episode 15, and the next episode is 17 "Water on Mars". Where is 16?!
Click to expand...

The next Episode is called Planet of the Dead, and it's not on Netflix for some reason.

After Series 4, there was a 2008 Christmas special (the episode you just watched) and then a number of one off episodes in 2009:

- Planet of the Dead (Easter)
- Waters of Mars (November)
- End of Time Part 1 (Christmas 2009)
- End of Time Part 2 (New Years Day 2010)

Then series 5.
 
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