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[mckmas8808]

The problem here is it's his last naughty dog game. So if Sony lose a few hundred million on this he's sailing off into the sun regardless. There will probably be 7/8 years between TLOUP2 and this launching. It can ruin a studio not having a hit over such a long time. Very big risk going full DEI.

The bigger risk was OBVIOUSLY spending 4 years to make a Live Service online game and it not releasing at all!!! There's nothing Intergalactic can do to be worse than that. Not sure why you guys aren't even mentioning that.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The bigger risk was OBVIOUSLY spending 4 years to make a Live Service online game and it not releasing at all!!! There's nothing Intergalactic can do to be worse than that. Not sure why you guys aren't even mentioning that.

Surprising they cancelled Factions 2.

They already had a huge hit with H2 (sci fi) and F2 could had been their more grounded shooter game. They'd have one game in each setting and neither is woke-ish, so it's be pretty hard for the masses to make fun of either of them like a Concord or Intergalactic. And going by what people said about LOU online in the first game it was pretty good.

Probably would had been better to work on LOU3 (which they surely are in some form) and F2. Then LOU3 and Intergalactic. But who knows, maybe Intergalactic will be a big hit.

 

[Kerotan]

The bigger risk was OBVIOUSLY spending 4 years to make a Live Service online game and it not releasing at all!!! There's nothing Intergalactic can do to be worse than that. Not sure why you guys aren't even mentioning that.

Yeah that's a good point. Obviously they had a remaster and a remake in that time to keep some revenue flowing but the reality is they fucked up. TLOUP2 should have expanded on part 1's online and maybe a co-op mode similar to the rogue like DLC the remaster got. A much safer option but at least it would have released and cost far less money and time.

Hopefully they do intergalactic, an uncharted 1 remake and then a new uncharted. 4 years between no wasting time with online.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

If ND manages to build a good lore, they could milk this franchise (given that the first game sells reasonably well) easier than TLOU. Actually, TLOU is a dead end, this is the problem of "grounded" stories, you can't extend them forever without lowering their level. By killing off Joel so soon, they closed his door and also Ellie's, whose journey is complete. Whatever comes next for TLOU should be with different characters and settings, maybe with the infection as the main theme. Anyway, Factions was the most viable option for the IP.

Intergalactic might tell the story of each of the five aces, one per game. For that the writing must be so much better than in TLOU 2 or it won't fly.

 

[Chronicle]

Why are people crying about this? Brutal. It's his artistic vision. The end.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

If ND manages to build a good lore, they could milk this franchise (given that the first game sells reasonably well) easier than TLOU. Actually, TLOU is a dead end, this is the problem of "grounded" stories, you can't extend them forever without lowering their level. By killing off Joel so soon, they closed his door and also Ellie's, whose journey is complete. Whatever comes next for TLOU should be with different characters and settings, maybe with the infection as the main theme. Anyway, Factions was the most viable option for the IP.

Intergalactic might tell the story of each of the five aces, one per game. For that the writing must be so much better than in TLOU 2 or it won't fly.

As long as the writing remains as good as the first two games, they could easily expand out with other characters.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Getting a thumbs up from James Sawyer Ford

 

[rkofan87]

colin the known fanboy defending woke trash? not surprised...

Nm

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

somone at ND/Sony ain't having a great time.

 

[Bernardougf]

somone at ND/Sony ain't having a great time.

 

[near]

somone at ND/Sony ain't having a great time.

Druckmann right now:

 

[WellSheet]

Why are people crying about this? Brutal. It's his artistic vision. The end.

If you put your art out there, you must be willing and accept that you’ve now said to the wider world, “I deem this worthy of being shared and I want it to be seen”.

You can argue that a lot of the discussions around this are not based in “good faith” - but nonetheless, if you someone presents you with something they created, and wish to make money and such off of it, part of the commerce of art is dealing with these things.

 

[Pedro Motta]

You're the one criticizing the writing of a whole game based on the fact that this is a videogame and you have to actually shoot and kill a lot of bad guys.

I actually think it's good writing to break the fourth wall and bring this matter to light, it adds to the already comedic tone of the series.

The writing in Uncharted 4 is better than 99.9% of the games that come out nowaways and it's great for what it is.

EDIT: Damn it, I was quoting Gaiff

 

[Gaiff]

You're the one criticizing the writing of a whole game based on the fact that this is a videogame and you have to actually shoot and kill a lot of bad guys.

No, read. I'm criticizing it because all of a sudden, Drake can't put a bullet in Nadine's skull because "he isn't like that" when the guy has killed hundreds of bloodthirsty mercenaries without thinking twice. That's some dumbshit that belongs in a Batman game where Bruce's no-kill rule makes for some silly plot lines.

I actually think it's good writing to break the fourth wall and bring this matter to light, it adds to the already comedic tone of the series.

Except this scene isn't meant to be comedic and I criticize Uncharted 4 for taking itself way too seriously. It's supposed to be a summer blockbuster action flick, but they turned it into a stupid family drama.

The writing in Uncharted 4 is better than 99.9% of the games that come out nowaways and it's great for what it is.

Most games don't care about writing, so it had better be. Also, no, the writing is shit.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

No, read. I'm criticizing it because all of a sudden, Drake can't put a bullet in Nadine's skull because "he isn't like that" when the guy has killed hundreds of bloodthirsty mercenaries without thinking twice. That's some dumbshit that belongs in a Batman game where Bruce's no-kill rule makes for some silly plot lines.

Except this scene isn't meant to be comedic and I criticize Uncharted 4 for taking itself way too seriously. It's supposed to be a summer blockbuster action flick, but they turned it into a stupid family drama.

Most games don't care about writing, so it had better be. Also, no, the writing is shit.

Didn't they retcon a brother and didn't the brother just keep fucking everything up by being a moron. Game isn't well written. Also a bad video game. Climbing easy walls for hours isn't engaging or fun.

 

[GymWolf]

Last few pages have been hilarious

ND defenders really are something else.

 

[Gaiff]

Didn't they retcon a brother and didn't the brother just keep fucking everything up by being a moron. Game isn't well written. Also a bad video game. Climbing easy walls for hours isn't engaging or fun.

As far as I’m aware, Sam was never brought up before Uncharted 4 and they shoehorned him in. Wouldn’t call it a retcon as I don’t think it overwrites established lore, but he came out of nowhere. Calling Uncharted 4 well written is laughable.

 

[Three]

No, read. I'm criticizing it because all of a sudden, Drake can't put a bullet in Nadine's skull because "he isn't like that" when the guy has killed hundreds of bloodthirsty mercenaries without thinking twice. That's some dumbshit that belongs in a Batman game where Bruce's no-kill rule makes for some silly plot lines.

Except this scene isn't meant to be comedic and I criticize Uncharted 4 for taking itself way too seriously. It's supposed to be a summer blockbuster action flick, but they turned it into a stupid family drama.

Most games don't care about writing, so it had better be. Also, no, the writing is shit.

I don't even understand what the issue is with that scene. If he shot her what would they have done or accomplished? Why would he shoot her? Besides that's not the scene you should be complaining about if you have a problem with Nathan Drake not killing women.

It should be the scene where he tries to save the main villian of Uncharted 3
Katherine "Kate" Marlowe having just gunned down her whole squad. Nathan didn't kill women because they knew it would ruin his charming goofy character with a lot of people. Hardly something to complain about.

 

[Rudius]

Misrepresenting sales data are not facts.

It's like how people on this forum continuously bring up Days Gone sales to prove Last of Us Part II underperformed at 10 million copies sold. We have seen the legs of Last of Us Part II. I posted how legs have improved ever since the 10 million sales announcement.

Spoiler: Sales Data

2020
November - US 8th - EU - 7th | Player tracker shows 7.2m million players

2021
April - EU - 12th
August - EU - 16th
October - EU - 11th
November - US - 16th - EU - 6th

2022
March - US - 15th - EU - 13th Last of Us Part II sold over 10 million copies | Leak data shows 9.93 million by the end of Feb
April - US - 14th - EU - 11th |
August - US - 10th - EU - 7th
September - US - 11th - EU - 15th | Last of Us Part I Release Date
November - US - 4th - EU - 4th | 12th GSD Europe
December - US - 7th - EU - 5th - JP - 15th

2023
January - US - 7th - EU - 7th | Last of Us Show TV Premiere
February - US - 1st - EU - 1st - JP - 9th | 18th NPD | 7th GSD Europe
March - US - 9th - EU - 10th | Season Finale
April - US - 1st - EU - 1st - JP - 15th | 5th GSD Europe
July - US - 12th - EU - 11th

February 2022

Spider-Man - 3 years, 4 months, 25 days
God of War - 3 years, 9 months, 12 days
Gran Turismo Sport - 4 years, 3 months, 16 days
Horizon Zero Dawn - 4 years, 11 months, 5 days
Uncharted 4 - 5 years, 8 months, 23 days
The Last of Us Remastered - 7 years, 6 months, 4 days

Data would suggest The Last of Us Part II reached 15 million sales as of June 2023

That's 2 years, 11 months, and 24 days.


The Last of Us Part II is doing this without bundles to extend sales legs, something you're not factoring in regarding sales data.

I don't think those stats are so relevant now, as it seems players just recently started voting with their wallets en masse against woke games. There are many examples this year.

 

[Bernardougf]

Last few pages have been hilarious

ND defenders really are something else.

Amazing right ? And I thought Phil"s ambassadors were bad ... I learned from TLOU2 discussions back in the day this people were passionate ... but holy shit.

 

[Gaiff]

I don't even understand what the issue is with that scene. If he shot her what would they have done or accomplished?

My problem with that scene is that Rafe acted like Nate was above killing someone "in cold blood" when Nate as acknowledged by Lazarevic killed many men and Nadine wasn't some sort of innocent bystander, so Nate being incapable of blowing her brains out was dumb.

Why would he shoot her?

It's the fact that Rafe and the narrative establishes Nate as being too morally upright to kill Nadine in this situation. That he didn't shoot her is immaterial. Rafe should have backed the fuck off and been, "these dudes can kill her too."

Besides that's not the scene you should be complaining about if you have a problem with Nathan Drake not killing women.

It should be the scene where he tries to save the main villian of Uncharted 3
Katherine "Kate" Marlowe having just gunned down her whole squad. Nathan didn't kill women because they knew it would ruin his charming goofy character with a lot of people. Hardly something to complain about.

Has nothing to do with Nadine's gender. Uncharted 1-3 didn't take themselves too seriously. 4 spent the entire game beating us over the head with family drama and was pretentious just enough to feel patronizing.

 

[Bernardougf]

I don't even understand what the issue is with that scene. If he shot her what would they have done or accomplished? Why would he shoot her? Besides that's not the scene you should be complaining about if you have a problem with Nathan Drake not killing women.

It should be the scene where he tries to save the main villian of Uncharted 3
Katherine "Kate" Marlowe having just gunned down her whole squad. Nathan didn't kill women because they knew it would ruin his charming goofy character with a lot of people. Hardly something to complain about.

I honestly dont even remember this shooting scene.. the ridiculous multiple ass kicking they got from fighting cyborg she-hulk Nadine though ... that I remember.

 

[Three]

My problem with that scene is that Rafe acted like Nate was above killing someone "in cold blood" when Nate as acknowledged by Lazarevic killed many men and Nadine wasn't some sort of innocent bystander, so Nate being incapable of blowing her brains out was dumb.
It's the fact that Rafe and the narrative establishes Nate as being too morally upright to kill Nadine in this situation. That he didn't shoot her is immaterial. Rafe should have backed the fuck off and been, "these dudes can kill her too."

But Nadine even makes fun of Rafes line and "their style" might be not killing women. He was wrong too because Sam pulled the trigger and Nathan knew he would but Nathan was the one who wasn't like that.

Has nothing to do with Nadine's gender. Uncharted 1-3 didn't take themselves too seriously. 4 spent the entire game beating us over the head with family drama and was pretentious just enough to feel patronizing.

Didn't feel that way to me. It was family drama (arguably so was the entire Drake trilogy) but all of the games didn't seem to take themselves too seriously either way.

 

[DForce]

I don't think those stats are so relevant now, as it seems players just recently started voting with their wallets en masse against woke games. There are many examples this year.

People said they refused to watch The Last of Us episode 3 because it was "too woke."

Not only did the viewership increase, but the game sales increased as well.

Now we have The Last of Us Part II Remastered, which performed well this year.

Best Selling NEW Games Europe 2024 (End of November)
1- FC 25
2- Call of Duty: Black Ops 6
3- Helldivers 2
4- Space Marine 2
5- DB sparking Zero
6- The Last of Us Part II Remastered
7- Super Mario Jamboree*
8- Astro Bot
9- Dragon's Dogma 2
12- Final Fantasy 7: Rebirth
14- Star Wars Outlaws
19- Dragon Age: The Veilguard

Best Selling Games Europe 2024 (End of November)
20 - The Last of Us Part II Remastered
43 - Final Fantasy 7: Rebirth
45 - Star Wars Outlaw

The truth is, most gamers don't go around crying woke.

 

[Woggleman]

Most people in general don't care about culture war crap from either side.

 

[mckmas8808]

Surprising they cancelled Factions 2.

They already had a huge hit with H2 (sci fi) and F2 could had been their more grounded shooter game. They'd have one game in each setting and neither is woke-ish, so it's be pretty hard for the masses to make fun of either of them like a Concord or Intergalactic. And going by what people said about LOU online in the first game it was pretty good.

Probably would had been better to work on LOU3 (which they surely are in some form) and F2. Then LOU3 and Intergalactic. But who knows, maybe Intergalactic will be a big hit.

Reportedly, they realized (I don't understand how it took so long for them to realize) that making and maintaining a live service game would cost too much and drain too many man-hours and resources to properly do it correctly. So they killed it. Why it took 4 years to figure this out......no one knows.

If ND manages to build a good lore, they could milk this franchise (given that the first game sells reasonably well) easier than TLOU. Actually, TLOU is a dead end, this is the problem of "grounded" stories, you can't extend them forever without lowering their level. By killing off Joel so soon, they closed his door and also Ellie's, whose journey is complete. Whatever comes next for TLOU should be with different characters and settings, maybe with the infection as the main theme. Anyway, Factions was the most viable option for the IP.

Intergalactic might tell the story of each of the five aces, one per game. For that the writing must be so much better than in TLOU 2 or it won't fly.

Well.........never forget what a good prequel can do. I'd love to play a TLOU game as Joel covering the 20 hours after the event started, but before we start TLOU1. People forget the Joel we know and play as is actually kinda the washed up\older version of Joel. He was a true killer in those 20 years prior.

 

[mckmas8808]

Didn't they retcon a brother and didn't the brother just keep fucking everything up by being a moron. Game isn't well written. Also a bad video game. Climbing easy walls for hours isn't engaging or fun.

You're WRONG! Sorry, but not sorry. The people have spoken! Most people love Uncharted 4. Deal with it.

 

[simpatico]

Crazy how the "don't worry, it will sell like every other ND game" crowd is just able to completely compartmentalize the unprecedented flopping we've seen this year. Giant billion-dollar first party shooters and once-a-decade RPG releases have never in the history of gaming flopped like they have this year. We're in Uncharted territory boys. Better start prognosticating like it.

You're WRONG! Sorry, but not sorry. The people have spoken! Most people love Uncharted 4. Deal with it.

I appreciate Uncharted 4 the same way I do Metal Gear Solid 5. The framework for an all-time classic is there. Only stopping short of that achievement due to bad-faith meddling. In MGSV case, that was Konami stopping development. In UC4 case, that was Druck trying to turn it into a TV show. Hennig and Kojima did nothing wrong.

 

[mckmas8808]

Crazy how the "don't worry, it will sell like every other ND game" crowd is just able to completely compartmentalize the unprecedented flopping we've seen this year. Giant billion-dollar first party shooters and once-a-decade RPG releases have never in the history of gaming flopped like they have this year. We're in Uncharted territory boys. Better start prognosticating like it.


I appreciate Uncharted 4 the same way I do Metal Gear Solid 5. The framework for an all-time classic is there. Only stopping short of that achievement due to bad-faith meddling. In MGSV case, that was Konami stopping development. In UC4 case, that was Druck trying to turn it into a TV show. Hennig and Kojima did nothing wrong.

And you have the right to your opinion, but many of us liked UC4 more do to what Druckmann did to it. Hennig's obsession with throwing super-natural beings at the end was getting stale and it was the worse parts of the Uncharted series. It wasn't needed at all. Her end "boss fights" were always talked about in a negative fashion.

Druckmann cleaned that up.

 

[tmlDan]

I appreciate Uncharted 4 the same way I do Metal Gear Solid 5. The framework for an all-time classic is there. Only stopping short of that achievement due to bad-faith meddling. In MGSV case, that was Konami stopping development. In UC4 case, that was Druck trying to turn it into a TV show. Hennig and Kojima did nothing wrong.

Your take on UC4 is absolute garbage, they also added evolution to the gameplay, better puzzles, rope swinging, better driving mechanics, it was an overall very very good game and the best UC game, objectively, from a gameplay perspective

 

[simpatico]

Your take on UC4 is absolute garbage, they also added evolution to the gameplay, better puzzles, rope swinging, better driving mechanics, it was an overall very very good game and the best UC game, objectively, from a gameplay perspective

Those are the qualities that make Uncharted 4 a near classic. It's the story and basically the first 1/3 of the game that pull it down. Flashback mission, stealth party mission etc. Nothing to do with the actual moment to moment gameplay.

And you have the right to your opinion, but many of us liked UC4 more do to what Druckmann did to it. Hennig's obsession with throwing super-natural beings at the end was getting stale and it was the worse parts of the Uncharted series. It wasn't needed at all. Her end "boss fights" were always talked about in a negative fashion.

Druckmann cleaned that up.

I can agree with the boss fights not being good in Uncharted. The first 1/3 of UC4 mentioned above just stinks to the high heavens of try-hard "look I grasp basic TV tropes too" sentiment. Ultimately, making the last 30 minutes of the game better at the cost of the first 1/3 and the lore continuity moving forward is not a trade I would make. We're completely stuck with Sam and his existence punches jeep sized holes through the first three games. My sense is Druck is deeply embarrassed by gaming as a medium and does whatever he can to show people in the TV biz that he lovingly sniffs their farts whenever possible. Druck also changed the tone. He's a person who cannot abide by Drake as an archtype. He reminds me a lot of original trilogy Luke Skywalker. Just infinite optimism and good vibes. In Druck's world everything had to be jaded, damaged and muddy.

 

[mckmas8808]

Those are the qualities that make Uncharted 4 a near classic. It's the story and basically the first 1/3 of the game that pull it down. Flashback mission, stealth party mission etc. Nothing to do with the actual moment to moment gameplay.


I can agree with the boss fights not being good in Uncharted. The first 1/3 of UC4 mentioned above just stinks to the high heavens of try-hard "look I grasp basic TV tropes too" sentiment. Ultimately, making the last 30 minutes of the game better at the cost of the first 1/3 and the lore continuity moving forward is not a trade I would make. We're completely stuck with Sam and his existence punches jeep sized holes through the first three games. My sense is Druck is deeply embarrassed by gaming as a medium and does whatever he can to show people in the TV biz that he lovingly sniffs their farts whenever possible. Druck also changed the tone. He's a person who cannot abide by Drake as an archtype. He reminds me a lot of original trilogy Luke Skywalker. Just infinite optimism and good vibes. In Druck's world everything had to be jaded, damaged and muddy.

Or.............he appreciates what people in the TV biz have done and wants to introduce it into mainstream AAA gaming. Kojima just gave an interview lately that said everybody told him doing stories in games wasn't needed and that he was a crazy person for wanting to do it. They were wrong and he was right!

Hideo Kojima was told "games don't need stories" early in his career, so he read 300 books while making a single game to prove them wrong

"Everyone was against it"

www.gamesradar.com

Having people like Druckmann and Kojima are 100% a pure net positive for the games industry

 

[Astray]

It should be the scene where he tries to save the main villian of Uncharted 3
Katherine "Kate" Marlowe having just gunned down her whole squad. Nathan didn't kill women because they knew it would ruin his charming goofy character with a lot of people. Hardly something to complain about.

The entire final act of Uncharted 3 was a complete mess imo. Remember feeling super disappointed by the time I encountered the "djinn".

Writing-wise, U4 is far superior in almost every way.

 

[Chuck Berry]

Need a new thread:

Who are the most embarrassing defenders? Naughty Dog or Phil/Xbox?

 

[poodaddy]

Need a new thread:

Who are the most embarrassing defenders? Naughty Dog or Phil/Xbox?

 

[VulcanRaven]

Need a new thread:

Who are the most embarrassing defenders? Naughty Dog or Phil/Xbox?

All the hate towards ND after the trailer has been pretty embarassing too.