alabtrosMyster
Member
Come on, the series X can't even run God of War as well as the PS4 Pro! let alone the PS5.
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Dusk Golem reiterates that the Xbox will be more powerful than the PS5 (Admitted to starting console wars, demodded)
PS5 is better at rendering it's strange that you didn't know this from the specs we have. Xbox SX is ahead when it come to compute
Some games will be better on Xbox SX & some will be better on PS5 the problem for Xbox Series X is that most games will be made using the fixed function hardware & not being made around compute.
With PS4 we got Dreams & The Tomorrow Children that devs went out of their way to use compute rendering.
Aguero9320
Member
The one with more power.
The odd frame here or there in some third party cross gen games? Most of which seems to be being patched out anyway. Ooooh. Burn. And let’s not mention Cyberpunk because that’s ‘not fair lol.
I’m not playing semantics, Series X is undeniably the more powerful console. It may not have demonstrated it yet, and maybe it never will, but Jesus, talk about shooting your load prematurely Sony fanboys
Have a little patience and self restraint and let’s see where we are in a few months. Declaring victory now is a) pointless and b) ridiculous.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
So to you, the most powerful console is the one with more power...which console consumes the largest amount of Watts?
Clarissa
Banned
We won't miss you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
Seriously, guys, there's not enough crow to go around.
ethomaz
Banned
Just for curiosity (I did not make fun of you)... do you still believe the gap in Xbox favor will be bigger than most thought?
Riky
$MSFT
The higher settings are a consistent advantage on Xbox, Devs obviously feel it can do more, that's why traffic density, NPC density etc are increased as well as graphical settings on Xbox as well as resolution. Xbox is doing a lot more.
Then as we move to next gen engines as well as the wider GPU, higher peak memory bandwidth and faster CPU we will see the use of the full suite of RDNA2 features that only Xbox has full hardware support for, as said by AMD themselves.
That's when the gulf between the machines really starts to become apparent.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
No.
And you have no credibility after saying the XsS is going to push the PlayStation 5. lol
Vick
Member
That's because you should seek mental help bud.
Some of your posts are blatant red flags at this point. Acting all the time like a Sony exec raped your mother while slapping your father in front of you during childhood is not only super weird, it's just not healthy.
Not worth it in the slightest choosing to live a bitter and miserable life because of things beyond our control, especially when they have no real impact whatsoever on our lives in the first place.
Only saying this for your good considering how the long generation ahead has been established.
anothertech
Member
Just keep digging that hole. Eat more crow warrior
Riky
$MSFT
You missed the bit where DF just said the Series S version of Cyberpunk is ranked better than PS5 then. It runs at a peak higher resolution and has higher NPC levels and graphical settings
Aguero9320
Member
More like ‘What?’ than watt.
There’s no ‘to me’ or ‘to you’ in this - it’s a fact which has more power, not an opinion. Sheer volume of posts from those who want it to be different won’t change it.
There is no PS5 version.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
So which console has more Watts consumed on average so we can settle the power debate?
ShadowWolf712
Member
I do love your anger at having to swallow your own FUD. Truly.
That's very clearly not where the PS5's performance is now, nor at the time you made the assertion. One would think your alleged "insider" friend would be privy to that much.
That being said, he clearly does NOT have insider status or anything that is not company-wise info, or pertaining to his studio in particular. Ergo, calling him an insider on issues he has no real inside knowledge of, only hearsay, is a bit disingenuous.
But FWIW, I've actually argued WITH the Sony guys on GAF almost as much as the Xbox and PCMR folks. I've told all sides when they were being silly. I just find your very blatant ax to grind with this company to be hilarious, and wonder what the real cause for it is deep down, is all.
Who hurt you, friendo?
onnextflix5
Member
Man ur one delusional guy, instead of asking why a 12tf console cant run cyberpunk at locked 60fps, u go on a rant about how many npcs there are, it dont matter what settings the xsx is running at, if it cant run locked 60fps, settings need to be lowered lol, where is 12tf here, ms has miss sold u a console, why are u not upset, are u a ms worker or something, why defend their incompetence. Xbox is not a religion dude, get ur head out of the gutter.
Ps, im still wating for u to name a one pc game running on xsx that has a performance(fps) advantage over ps5 lol
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Riky
$MSFT
PS5 doesn't run a locked 60fps at much lower settings, less NPC count, less traffic and at a lower resolution. That's why DF not me ranked it below both Xbox versions.
StrongGuy
Member
I don't think you know what that word means.
ShadowWolf712
Member
Wait I coulda swore you said that a port of TLOU II would be revealed about six months from launch? That they were gonna start coming harder and faster? What changed?
Clarissa
Banned
He's trying to be my friend who is an Xbox Fanboy who hates Sony.
44alltheway
Member
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Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Nothing wrong with some BBW action. They try harder.
cause he’s desperate to cling onto anything he can?
onnextflix5
Member
im still wating for u to name a one pc game running on xsx that has a performance(fps) advantage over ps5 lol
this is when they proceed to stick fingers in their ears and go lalalalala.
ShadowWolf712
Member
He said his friend workS at a Sony studio though, not worked. Chris is former.
Shoot, I used to wonder if Chris is VFXVeteran. lol
VFXVeteran
Banned
I'm not here to feed people with insider info. I'm here to educate on graphics tech and point it out in games. Look for general graphics knowledge and you won't go wrong. I've got several threads on the topic.
VFXVeteran
Banned
You wouldn't. So there you go. Why am I still being indulged in this thread even now? I don't get it.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I don't know man. It's too early to tell what the XSX can do with busted API and drivers.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I guess you missed the part where it says it's running PS4 Pro BC version with just hither frame-rate and there's no next gen version yet.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Where is the proof that the drivers and API are busted, and that if so, PS5 isn't in a similar situation?
Seems like wishful thinking more than anything else.
But yes, I agree re: "you don't know", just like your Sony source didn't know anything about PS5 vs. XSX.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Dude, stop trying to figure out my "fake" contacts and let it go. This really is a fruitless conversation.
So I understand looking into this why some people are roasting a couple posters here. There was some clear... either misreporting or misrepresentation.
But I need to come in and be a voice of reason? Maybe?
Technically, there is not a single, AAA, multiplatform game on the market that is exclusive to next-gen. This is wildly important, because that means none of the current cross platform "next-gen" games are even truly next-gen. They are just patched PS4/Xbox One games. This is even true with Cyberpunk, which is why when DF came out and noted that for some reason the Xbox Series S "version" of the game runs better than the PS5 "version", people raged because "there isn't a PS5 version" - which sort of skirted around the point that Cyberpunk runs better on the Series S than it does the PS5, PS4, and PS4 pro. Consistently.
What does this mean? Piss all. Because the game favors the platform it was focused for. There is an official Cyberpunk Xbox One X. That means Microsoft partnered with CD Projekt Red. This likely means the lead platforms for the game were PC (obviously, given what we know today), followed by Xbox Series S/X (which explains why series S plays better than the PS5). Technically, we can argue the games were never made for those platforms, but we now know in post release interviews the games were being tested and ran on this hardware first, with patches and other fixes coming to PS4/Xbox One later. So clearly, they were focusing on next-gen, even if the "next-gen" update doesn't exist yet.
More over, any performance differences one way or the other that favor a specific console mean absolutely nothing right now. Remember when for years, Xbox 360 games ran and looked better than PS3 multiplatform games, even though PS3 was more powerful? That changed and flipped by the end of the generation. Right now, PS5 seems easier to convert older games to. That's really all we can determine right now. The way it boosts clocks and this and that is showing a present advantage to PS5 in general.
But again, how do we measure this? With last gen updated game performance. Which like Cyberpunk.... means piss all. We have yet to see 1, just 1, AAA multiplatform game that was made from the ground up for next-gen only. Hasn't happened. May not happen next year either. Until it does, we honestly do not know how it plays out.
On paper raw GPU output favors Xbox. We know this as a fact. We also know certain metrics on paper favor PS5. We also know that if we want to REALLY get down to brass tax... both systems are at their core... using the exact same technology beyond a controller change in the SSD on PS5. They are choosing to use this technology in slightly different ways - like PS5 choosing higher boost clocks but lower cuda cores, but the boost clocks are unsustainable over long periods of time. Meanwhile, Xbox chose a consistent clock with a higher overall output when utilized correctly.
Set aside which console you prefer. Which company you prefer. Every single comment on this thread can seemingly be boiled down to... are you a sony fan or a microsoft fan?
Very little fact based discussion. Fact remains, we don't know which console will consistently come out on top with next-gen (or shall we say current-gen) multiplatform AAA games because frankly... we don't have any. Both systems are, fundamentally, using the same core technology just in slightly different ways. To laugh and say "xbox sucks" is ironic when PS5 is using the same base tech. To say "sony sucks" is ironic too, when Xbox is using the same base tech. This is basically a giant dick measuring contest, except they both came from the same mother and one is slight longer, while the other is slightly girthier. There is no actual "winner" right now, and I am betting it will vary wildly game to game which system performs better based on which system was the primary focus of the console version. Because that's how game development works. It's made for ONE system, then ported to the rest. The primary system it's made for typically has the better performance.
So can we stop trying to measure ego's and actually look at the facts? On paper, xbox has better GPU performance. Cool. But we don't even know how this is going to translate. We have no information other than last gen crap.
But I need to come in and be a voice of reason? Maybe?
Technically, there is not a single, AAA, multiplatform game on the market that is exclusive to next-gen. This is wildly important, because that means none of the current cross platform "next-gen" games are even truly next-gen. They are just patched PS4/Xbox One games. This is even true with Cyberpunk, which is why when DF came out and noted that for some reason the Xbox Series S "version" of the game runs better than the PS5 "version", people raged because "there isn't a PS5 version" - which sort of skirted around the point that Cyberpunk runs better on the Series S than it does the PS5, PS4, and PS4 pro. Consistently.
What does this mean? Piss all. Because the game favors the platform it was focused for. There is an official Cyberpunk Xbox One X. That means Microsoft partnered with CD Projekt Red. This likely means the lead platforms for the game were PC (obviously, given what we know today), followed by Xbox Series S/X (which explains why series S plays better than the PS5). Technically, we can argue the games were never made for those platforms, but we now know in post release interviews the games were being tested and ran on this hardware first, with patches and other fixes coming to PS4/Xbox One later. So clearly, they were focusing on next-gen, even if the "next-gen" update doesn't exist yet.
More over, any performance differences one way or the other that favor a specific console mean absolutely nothing right now. Remember when for years, Xbox 360 games ran and looked better than PS3 multiplatform games, even though PS3 was more powerful? That changed and flipped by the end of the generation. Right now, PS5 seems easier to convert older games to. That's really all we can determine right now. The way it boosts clocks and this and that is showing a present advantage to PS5 in general.
But again, how do we measure this? With last gen updated game performance. Which like Cyberpunk.... means piss all. We have yet to see 1, just 1, AAA multiplatform game that was made from the ground up for next-gen only. Hasn't happened. May not happen next year either. Until it does, we honestly do not know how it plays out.
On paper raw GPU output favors Xbox. We know this as a fact. We also know certain metrics on paper favor PS5. We also know that if we want to REALLY get down to brass tax... both systems are at their core... using the exact same technology beyond a controller change in the SSD on PS5. They are choosing to use this technology in slightly different ways - like PS5 choosing higher boost clocks but lower cuda cores, but the boost clocks are unsustainable over long periods of time. Meanwhile, Xbox chose a consistent clock with a higher overall output when utilized correctly.
Set aside which console you prefer. Which company you prefer. Every single comment on this thread can seemingly be boiled down to... are you a sony fan or a microsoft fan?
Very little fact based discussion. Fact remains, we don't know which console will consistently come out on top with next-gen (or shall we say current-gen) multiplatform AAA games because frankly... we don't have any. Both systems are, fundamentally, using the same core technology just in slightly different ways. To laugh and say "xbox sucks" is ironic when PS5 is using the same base tech. To say "sony sucks" is ironic too, when Xbox is using the same base tech. This is basically a giant dick measuring contest, except they both came from the same mother and one is slight longer, while the other is slightly girthier. There is no actual "winner" right now, and I am betting it will vary wildly game to game which system performs better based on which system was the primary focus of the console version. Because that's how game development works. It's made for ONE system, then ported to the rest. The primary system it's made for typically has the better performance.
So can we stop trying to measure ego's and actually look at the facts? On paper, xbox has better GPU performance. Cool. But we don't even know how this is going to translate. We have no information other than last gen crap.
VFXVeteran
Banned
OK. Moving on....
onnextflix5
Member
Keep digging that grave, remember when u said that the difference in power was huge, now ur singing the tools tune like a xbox fanboy lol, what happened to the huge diffrence in power lol
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
If there was a huge difference in power then we would have seen it on Day 1, even with busted drivers/API/whatever the excuse (devs have come out and openly stated that the dev environment is absolutely fine)
It just so happens that there's not some large gulf in power, and even if these mythical tools end up making XSX about 18% more powerful in frames or pixels or whatever, IT'S STILL not a large gulf in power....but so far, they have a large hill to climb to try and even get back to what theoretical specs should state that there's a difference.
Problem is, Teraflops isn't the end all be all as we have seen, and yes, things like clocks and custom hardware matter a great deal in all of this. So the theoretical 18% gap will always be the upper bound scenario that will never materialize in practical terms.
VFXVeteran
Banned
I don't have an XSX nor did I ever state I wanted one. But do keep touting the "Sony big dick" though.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
This is...not correct.
Yes, there are games that are "cross-gen", but there's a big difference between an uncapped BC mode game (Cyberpunk) and a cross-platform title that has a version optimized for next-gen (Assassin's Creed: Valhalla).
And Assassin's Creed HAS a marketing deal with Microsoft, and runs better on PS5, so there goes that argument...
Not to defend him directly because it sounds like he is lying or got bad info, indirectly I will state we can't possibly know what, if any, power difference exists because we don't even have a next-gen only made AAA multiplatform game to even draw comparisons from. Using PS4/Xbox One ported games with next-gen updates is not a great measure of performance and isn't specifically designed for the given hardware.
Comparing exclusives is obviously a lost cause typically too for what should be obvious reasons. We can't definitively say there is, or isn't, a decent gap one way or the other yet. We likely won't know for a couple years, or whenever companies stop supporting last gen.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
See post above.
A next-gen only game isn't really required for this sort of comparison. All that's required is a next-gen optimized game, of which there are plenty, and generally favor the PS5.
Xbox fanboys: A never ending story
How it started: “It eats monsters for breakfast! 12 TF’s!!! Best 3rd party games! 12>9!!!! RDNA2! Most Powerful....
How it’s going:
Console launch: It’s a little more powerful!!
Last month: wait for the tools!!!!
December: But but last gen version of Cyberpunk!
....
Xbox fanboys:
——————> 
How it started: “It eats monsters for breakfast! 12 TF’s!!! Best 3rd party games! 12>9!!!! RDNA2! Most Powerful....
How it’s going:
Console launch: It’s a little more powerful!!
Last month: wait for the tools!!!!
December: But but last gen version of Cyberpunk!
....
Xbox fanboys:
——————>
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What argument are you even talking about? As a software developer, let me tell you something: If a game is "cross-platform" with a "optimized version for new hardware" - it's literally the worst comparison of hardware you could ever do. They are basically taking a code base and engine built for entirely different hardware and then hotfixing it to run "better" on the new hardware. That's not an accurate measure of performance and any decent software developer will tell you this. You can't really understand the capabilities of the hardware until the software is built from the ground up specifically for that hardware. It can't be ones still keeping older tech in mind. As an example: Do you REALLY want to know what a 5950x combined with a RTX 3090 is capable of?
You won't ever find out, because games being made for PC hardware have to consider to wide of a variance in PC hardware tech. This means they are basically just brute forcing better performance rather than designing a game around the specific given technology. On home console, this is different because the hardware is set and doesn't change.
There is literally nothing on the market that gives a remotely close to accurate comparison. Because there isn't any publicly available software built specifically for the given technologies that goes cross gen. People are massively overstating what a "next-gen" optimized game actually means. Congrats they added in higher quality assets (making the games bigger) and released a bunch of hot fixes to brute force in performance increases.
Cool.
Get back to me when games are actually made FOR the tech, instead of adapted from old tech.
ShadowWolf712
Member
I'm not trying to figure anything out, I'm responding to someone else claiming an unrelated person had to be your contact. Chill.
ethomaz
Banned
That is fine.
I believe with one year it will be enough to see if these API & drivers will change the situation or not... so next holiday releases.
If PS5 keep with on pair or better performance then the issue was not API & drivers.
Allnamestakenlol
Member
I'm amazed this thread is still going.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Just because it's not the "best" comparison, doesn't mean it's not a VALID comparison.
The problem is that multiplatform games by their very nature are never targeting ANY platform. Even when they move to "next-gen only" they will have to target tons of PC configurations. Many third parties have even moved on to supporting higher end PCs as their target and then just ensure that the last-gen consoles are sufficiently playable. I would surmise that next-gen versions of multiplats are based more on the PC versions than their last-gen predecessors.
So the best we have to go by is the results that speak for themselves, and so far the PS5 has shown to have better performance. That could change of course IF there are some dev or driver issues...or it may not. But that doesn't make this early assessment any less valid. In fact, it's all we have to go by at the moment and thus far Sony looks to have created a very competitive and compelling piece of hardware in spite of the whole drama surrounding teraflops.
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Keep in mind I am not disputing any claims the PS5 is faster. I am merely saying that as a software developer, I don't see enough evidence to determine this.
It's like saying oh look we have NBA 2K21 with next-gen update and it favors PS5! WOO! Okay, so are we saying a true next-gen 2K game not made for old gen can't be better? That we have reached the pinnacle of these systems cross gen performance already? What happens if say, NBA 2K23 runs better on series x?
Better yet? Why does it better. Who cares...
Everyone should be pretty pleased with whatever platforms they own.
It's like saying oh look we have NBA 2K21 with next-gen update and it favors PS5! WOO! Okay, so are we saying a true next-gen 2K game not made for old gen can't be better? That we have reached the pinnacle of these systems cross gen performance already? What happens if say, NBA 2K23 runs better on series x?
Better yet? Why does it better. Who cares...
Everyone should be pretty pleased with whatever platforms they own.