Coolbgdog12
Member
I read the article and understood what they where saying but still, the bannings seemed very reactionary like I've seen worst things on this forum not get people banned.
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Eurogamer: Is Uncharted more 'walking simulator' than action game?
- Thread starter Raylan
- Start date
I read the article and understood what they where saying but still, the bannings seemed very reactionary like I've seen worst things on this forum not get people banned.
GamingOblivion
Banned
I actually feel the opposite. The hours of shooting in the first three games always wore me out. When a shooting sequence would start, I would groan and wish it over. Once it was, I was breathe a sigh of relief and continue with the game.
With Uncharted 4, I got the story bits in this game (which were acting and presented in a far more realistic way) but I also got some amazing combat moments. Not once did I have that typical response to the combat, and in fact would freak out with glee about how damn good it feels with the verticality of everything.
Dirtyshubb
Member
To me it seems to be the latest buzzword that people have picked up on because 6 months ago i never heard anyone use this term yet these days i hear it all the time.
LordOfChaos
Member
In a lot of shooting games, I've often found myself wishing for a more exploratory, contemplative pace, rather than waves of enemies. "Walking simulator" seems like a derogatory term, but if it means more exploring and pondering I'd bill it a positive.
To emphasize how the game is safe in some areas and takes risks in others?
meanspartan
Member
I've always liked Uncharted, all of them are basically 8/10 games for me, but I'll never love them I'm convinced.
They are sooo painfully linear. I always get aggravated when I can climb this wall but not that wall. A recent level in UC4 where you gotta get to the lowest level to escape is another example. I was only about ten or fifteen feet off the ground, and tried to jump off and run to the driveway (Drake has bigger falls all the time and survives), but I instantly died for not following the games predetermined linear path through rooftops.
The combat in previous games was also super floaty, though this is much improved in UC4.
I have no idea why, but for some reason even though Last of Us was just as linear, it never bothered me as much and that game is tied with RDR as my favorite Ps3 era game. Maybe I just liked the story and combat more so it made me more willing to overlook my usual Pet Peeves with modern Naughty Dog games.
I'm enjoying UC4 so far just like the previous games. But unless the ending is out of this world amazing, I think it will also be a fun game that I play for the spectacle but then forget mere weeks later.
I know many think it would be dumb because the studio is too "Good" for it now, but I really wish Naughty Dog would make Jak 4. A more pure game (maybe pure is the wrong word) would be good for them I think.
But hey, I'm clearly a minority, as most think this game is perfection, not just pretty good.
They are sooo painfully linear. I always get aggravated when I can climb this wall but not that wall. A recent level in UC4 where you gotta get to the lowest level to escape is another example. I was only about ten or fifteen feet off the ground, and tried to jump off and run to the driveway (Drake has bigger falls all the time and survives), but I instantly died for not following the games predetermined linear path through rooftops.
The combat in previous games was also super floaty, though this is much improved in UC4.
I have no idea why, but for some reason even though Last of Us was just as linear, it never bothered me as much and that game is tied with RDR as my favorite Ps3 era game. Maybe I just liked the story and combat more so it made me more willing to overlook my usual Pet Peeves with modern Naughty Dog games.
I'm enjoying UC4 so far just like the previous games. But unless the ending is out of this world amazing, I think it will also be a fun game that I play for the spectacle but then forget mere weeks later.
I know many think it would be dumb because the studio is too "Good" for it now, but I really wish Naughty Dog would make Jak 4. A more pure game (maybe pure is the wrong word) would be good for them I think.
But hey, I'm clearly a minority, as most think this game is perfection, not just pretty good.
potatohead
Member
I just don't get where the agency argument comes from either. I agree with this. It's always just with Uncharted. First it was narrative dissonance, now it is "no agency." Like... wat.
It's funny if you compare the more linear MGS3 with the open-world MGS5.... technically, which one provides more agency within the game framework? Looking closely at both, I think it's very apparent that despite MGS3's much longer cutscenes, much stronger narrative focus, and even overwhelming linear structure, the game actually offers more agency in what you can do within the mechanics of the game, but even within certain major game events.
I'll even give some examples:
You can kill The End by sniping him after a particular cutscene before you even are supposed to fight him
The End will "capture you" and literally put you in jail if you mess up during that fight
You can wait for The End to die based on the PS2 clock timer
You can poison The Fear with bad food when his stamina bar is low to lower it even further
You can make yourself immune to The Bees with Bug Juice
You can confuse Volgin with Raiden's mask
You can use Raiden's mask and play "the boss" and slap around your soldiers in the GRU base
You can subvert Volgin's electric powers using "electric glowing mushrooms" that even recharge your batteries... the game even hints at this opportunity several times if you pay attention
The End will "capture you" and literally put you in jail if you mess up during that fight
You can wait for The End to die based on the PS2 clock timer
You can poison The Fear with bad food when his stamina bar is low to lower it even further
You can make yourself immune to The Bees with Bug Juice
You can confuse Volgin with Raiden's mask
You can use Raiden's mask and play "the boss" and slap around your soldiers in the GRU base
You can subvert Volgin's electric powers using "electric glowing mushrooms" that even recharge your batteries... the game even hints at this opportunity several times if you pay attention
That is personally my interpretation of what agency means in game. Solving abstract ideas using concrete components within the games framework.
This is why I also think MGS3 offers more player agency than MGS5 (in particular ways, MGS5 also offers a great deal of player agency but in a different way in how to approach levels), even though the latter is more open world.
Which is why when I look at "there is no agency in Uncharted" I am confused, because most people seem to be asking "why aren't the levels more open? why can't I go to multiple places rather than just one place?"
But then I look at MGS3 and it is so, so, so linear, but it offers agency because it does completely other things with the gameplay mechanics than what is typically expected of the player.
Now this is not an argument than Uncharted 4 offers agency, because it does not. But it also doesn't even try to.
Which makes me not even understand why it is a conversation with Uncharted when so many similar games neither try to even do anything about agency either, but the discussion *only* happens with Uncharted. It's very incredulous and hard to understand for me. Gears of War, Binary Domain, Quantum Break, there's no player agency in these games either. You walk from level to level and area to area and shoot enemies all the same as in Uncharted, but only Uncharted gets flak for it...... lol.
I mean even Final Fantasy X gets complaints about being linear, but it doesn't go off the deep end with all this "the game lacks agency, and this is a flaw, but this is how they've made it at least bearable." And is Final Fantasy X-2 providing a better experience for "more agency" by letting you decide where to go first using the airship? I don't think so. It's just a bland choice of in what order do you want to do what things, but that's not really agency.
Like.. I dunno what people are asking for with this whole agency business. It seems people mix it very heavily with their interpretation of what open-world is, even when open-world games rarely provide agency either.
When I think of agency in a game I think of the mechanics in MGS3 and how they offer thoughtful solutions to interesting problems in the game, and let the player express that through the gameplay.
IMO agency is not simply about having a big wide open spacing and driving to it from different angles a la an open world game.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
So, like The Last of Us?
But seriously: so what if it's linear? Linearity isn't inherently a bad thing. And having a few different paths you can take, even if they lead to the same thing, isn't necessarily a bad thing either, especially in this kind of game. It just allows for different playstyles or pacing from the player, it's not meant to change where the story is going.
Uh? Castlevania were platform/action-games, not adventure games...?
I have played a bit of Gabriel Knight, and finished Secret of Monkey Island. For modern adventure games, I have played Valiant Hearts and Sherlock Holmes: Crimes and Punishment (and the slightly older The Awakened).
Sherlock Holmes C&P, now that is a modern take on classic adventure games. Telltale games and Dear Esther, not so much. They are a different genre completely IMO.
You don't know why they were banned (unless you asked a mod I guess). Relax.
Well, the tone of the article is generally positive, so it is weird to use pejorative, attention-seeking language in your headline, no?
edit:
Fair points. Player agency does seem to be a fairly often misunderstood concept. If we consider it in the way it's often intended, then arcade shooters have no agency. Okay. And then my question is: so what? Why is this a problem?
And you're right that it seems Uncharted gets more flak for its linearity than, say, Gears of War etc. Even Tomb Raider (2013) somehow gets a pass, even though its "open" structure is completely illusory and it's the hand-holdiest game ever. In a sense it's even more on rails and brain-dead than Uncharted, but it doesn't even have the good writing and charming characters to accompany it.
I agree with you, but I do think Eurogamer should show a little more tact in coming up with titles for these articles. If anything, simply to better reflect the actual content within and to give more credibility to it from the offset. Otherwise it sort of feels like the journalism equivalent of a "gotcha!" moment.
The title implies that the Author thinks Uncharted 4 is actually more of a walking simulator than an action game, even though conveniently the entire article ignores the fact that the actual genre of the game is and always has been an action adventure game, not just an action game. "Combat fatigues: How Uncharted is a walking simulator in action game's clothing", however the actual conclusion implies that Uncharted only sometimes borrows or feels similar to certain elements from walking simulators.
In that regard the title of the article is not even accurate and does the entire thing a disservice, and is in itself imo an example of poor journalism.
meanspartan
Member
Ya, I've caught one of those types of bans before for a shitty post I made. It's probably for the best as drive-by posting isn't good for the forum, but I do wish there was more consistent enforcement as I too wondered why I got in trouble but could point to ten far worse offenders within minutes who didn't get banned. I know it's impossible to have 100% fairness though, moderating isn't a day job.
Jimbob Smalls
Banned
Bloomin banfest that first page!
Fried Food
Banned
is UC4 more walking than action? I don't know, but I do know that it is definitely part walking simulator. Just last night I was thinking how the game felt like a movie with gameplay added. The narrative clearly came first with this game. Gameplay was added.
It's pointing out how safe a character design drake is. And that's not even a negative it just is what it is.
I don't think the article is entirely accurate but after 10 chapters I do find myself struggling to be engaged by the game. It's very boring (to me -- I know most of you love it, I'm talking about me).
The climbing sections are mostly pure tedium -- Just gruntwork of locating the next notch to push the button towards to play the game according to the designer's scheme. Platforming that magically guides your jump towards the target the designer wants you to land on/catch will never be fun to me.
Every time I'm presented with a new stage I find myself dreading the tedium of working throught the climbing and shooting as opposed to excited by the prospect of action. I actually prefer the walking sections so I don't have to do any mindless gruntwork.
This would be serviceable if I liked the characters or cared about the story, but I don't and I don't. The game kicks off by
The climbing sections are mostly pure tedium -- Just gruntwork of locating the next notch to push the button towards to play the game according to the designer's scheme. Platforming that magically guides your jump towards the target the designer wants you to land on/catch will never be fun to me.
Every time I'm presented with a new stage I find myself dreading the tedium of working throught the climbing and shooting as opposed to excited by the prospect of action. I actually prefer the walking sections so I don't have to do any mindless gruntwork.
This would be serviceable if I liked the characters or cared about the story, but I don't and I don't. The game kicks off by
Nate lying to his wife and his lies only become more enthusiastic. He's a douche.
It's more movie than a game.
I'm mixed about it so far. Already had feelings of oh cool, that looks nice or better get out or I'm toast.
But countered by feelings of well the button pressing seems like a formality. And this feels exactly like the part I've played of the first game.
I'm mixed about it so far. Already had feelings of oh cool, that looks nice or better get out or I'm toast.
But countered by feelings of well the button pressing seems like a formality. And this feels exactly like the part I've played of the first game.
meanspartan
Member
I wouldn't say I'm bored (8 chapters in), but I TOTALLY understand where you are coming from. See my post above.
Out of curiosity, did you feel the same about Last of Us?
I'm trying to figure out exactly why I've never loved Uncharted, though I do enjoy it the same way I enjoy a forgettable but fun summer blockbuster movie. My love for Last of Us proved it wasn't that I don't like modern Naughty Dog games. I also didn't care much for Indiana Jones as a kid, could be related given the similar stories.
I didn't like any UC game, but I loved TLOU.
I think the reason I loved TLOU is because it was more grounded. It didn't ask me to do any tedious "suck you to your jump goal" type platforming, and it didn't location hop all the time so I actually felt connected to the world. I also thought the banter in TLOU worked well as a counter balance to its darker world and themes. UC4 has a silly adventure story counterbalanced by nothing.
Combat in TLOU was more depthful, intense, and varied. Managing ingredients and crafting heals and bombs and so forth in real time added more tension. I also had an armament that I was upgrading. Everything about the game from its mechanics to its themes were more grounded.
I also found the characters more engaging and real. Both games feature a very high body count, but only one game acknowledges it. Something just feels constantly off about UC4.
I probably won't get my hands on a PS4 for some time, but as I understand it, the original selling point of the Uncharted games was to basically take Tomb Raider -- which was then an adventure game mostly based around exploration and spacial puzzle solving, and solve the combat problem in it by adding in Gears-ish third person cover shooting. It was always supposed to be an action adventure game, and they really meant action AND adventure, as in combining a shooter with a somewhat classic-style adventure game.
But somewhere along the line the shooter part took over and the adventure part became minimal. That's what I didn't like about Uncharted 1. Uncharted 2 and 3 were much heavier in the adventure department but were still primarily shooters. I don't know how Uncharted 4 is in comparison. Tomb Raider 2013 had the same problem though -- it used to be an adventure game and now it's just a shooter where you solve a few puzzles here and there.
Right now developers are trying to figure out how to make more story-driven games, but the biggest studios are locked within the bounds of making pure action games because that's what the suits have decided will sell, and anything beyond that has to have very little player agency or challenge. Uncharted and Last of Us get praised for stepping even a tow outside of the traditional shooter box, but I personally don't think they stepped outside it enough.
This post illustrates well what a lot of today's big action games that want to be story-driven are missing.
Basically, we need to try to bring adventure games and adventure gameplay elements back into the mainstream. Were they ever mainstream though? What if now is the time for that to happen because developers are trying to put more story-driven elements in their action games?
But somewhere along the line the shooter part took over and the adventure part became minimal. That's what I didn't like about Uncharted 1. Uncharted 2 and 3 were much heavier in the adventure department but were still primarily shooters. I don't know how Uncharted 4 is in comparison. Tomb Raider 2013 had the same problem though -- it used to be an adventure game and now it's just a shooter where you solve a few puzzles here and there.
Right now developers are trying to figure out how to make more story-driven games, but the biggest studios are locked within the bounds of making pure action games because that's what the suits have decided will sell, and anything beyond that has to have very little player agency or challenge. Uncharted and Last of Us get praised for stepping even a tow outside of the traditional shooter box, but I personally don't think they stepped outside it enough.
This post illustrates well what a lot of today's big action games that want to be story-driven are missing.
Basically, we need to try to bring adventure games and adventure gameplay elements back into the mainstream. Were they ever mainstream though? What if now is the time for that to happen because developers are trying to put more story-driven elements in their action games?
This is actually the most garbage post in this entire thread.
If anyone REALLY believes that this is what is happening rather than people very obviously just shitposting after not bothering to read the article (considering the article itself is a POSITIVE one), then there's no hope.
No one here is going to convince me that Uncharted fans aren't the worst of all the communities otherwise.
Storm Raider
Banned
If you honestly believe what I posted, lol.
Check the people that posted after you. Some really do. Hell just see the general sentiment before you posted.
You trying to be an ironic shitposter is still essentially being a shitposter.
Nah people read the thread title and are done with it.
Except if it's an opinion from a journalist website they don't agree with. If that, they call it clickbait and then are done with it.
Edit:
To avoid this being simply a reactionary post, I just wanna say I think it's a very interesting perspective. I don't know if it ever would cross my own mind but that is what I like about opinion pieces, since thinking about it now I can see where the connections are made.
Wow, what a graveyard thread.
Not sure I agree with "walking simulator". Naughty Dog want to Blockbuster movie games and Eurogamer is right that story is more important to ND than the game (or at least as important). I don't see having "interactive" cut scenes as a bad thing, the player is still engaged while watching the story. And the sales number prove ND right, there is a market for these type of games. Not every game needs to be the same, the lack of "game" elements can also be critized in VN for examples.
Not sure I agree with "walking simulator". Naughty Dog want to Blockbuster movie games and Eurogamer is right that story is more important to ND than the game (or at least as important). I don't see having "interactive" cut scenes as a bad thing, the player is still engaged while watching the story. And the sales number prove ND right, there is a market for these type of games. Not every game needs to be the same, the lack of "game" elements can also be critized in VN for examples.
meanspartan
Member
Ya, I think a lot of that applies to me as well. I share your feelings about the Uncharted platforming feeling tedious. Also, Last of Us for whatever reason managed to create the illusion of not being linear (even though it def was linear) a lot better. Either that or I liked it more so I was more willing to not notice the flaws.
Stealthing an area results in having to fight less enemies. I love the option, since I dislike too much shooting.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
The article actually makes some good points about downtime in an action game, but man, what a dog of a headline.
psynergylover
Member
damn those first page bans....
Anyway, the article is quite ridiculous with it breakdown of the uncharted series, by his logic almost everygame can be considered a walking simulator. But oddly enough he seems to praise it in his second half of the article
I think what the jounalist is trying to get at it that unchartd 2/3/4 have great pacing, it's not just over the top action, it lets you exhale for a brief moment before another action oriented set piece commences
Anyway, the article is quite ridiculous with it breakdown of the uncharted series, by his logic almost everygame can be considered a walking simulator. But oddly enough he seems to praise it in his second half of the article
I think what the jounalist is trying to get at it that unchartd 2/3/4 have great pacing, it's not just over the top action, it lets you exhale for a brief moment before another action oriented set piece commences
Agreed. I also don't think ND really ushered this whole balance of down time and exposition mixed with action. In fact I think the author is probably missing the point to what actually made Uncharted so popular. Whilst you could argue the exposition allowed for more fleshed out characters, I'd say the franchise was more so popular simply for having interesting and well acted characters, and perhaps more importantly, big, globe trotting, set piece filled bombastic thrill rides, where events that would have previously been cut scenes in games, were now interactive. That's what really set it apart.
Speaking to purely exposition in action games, I think it was Half Life that took such a risk much earlier, and massively succeeded, so the level of risk that ND themselves took on that front is questionable. We already had past examples that showed it could be very well received, implemented and rewarding, to both story, characters, pacing and the overall experience.
MiamiWesker
Member
oh the combat in U4 is much improved so yes the action is better overall, so why is there LESS. If you improve a mechanic you should explore that improvement more not less.
Also it's less directed than U2. A lot of the action sections are just guards on patrol, it's a small playground for you to create whatever situation you want, that's great but I still love heavily directed action where the designers dictate what the player needs to do. That allows for more situation variety. If you approach each area in U4 the same way the game is kind of a one note action game but if the game was constantly putting you in crazy designed setpieces where one moment you are chased by a car, then battling brutes, then running from a helicopter, then jumping across rooftops while fighting that helicopter... That kind of directed action creates a more memorable experience for me.
NullPointer
Member
I won't delve too deep into this as I'm still playing through the game and have avoided even light spoilers so far, but yeah, I could see how somebody could describe the game this way. Easily.
Am only 2/3rd of the way through, but where the previous games were thrill rides that took you from one set-piece to the next, punctuated by small breaks for puzzles and clamboring, UC4 feels like 85% clamboring, punctuated by combat and the occasional puzzle mechanism.
So far the gist of the game for me is that its the most well put together game I've ever experienced, and easily the best looking overall, but its not my favorite Uncharted, and I'm really not sure whether its got any real replay value for a player like me who comes to the series for the action.
Am only 2/3rd of the way through, but where the previous games were thrill rides that took you from one set-piece to the next, punctuated by small breaks for puzzles and clamboring, UC4 feels like 85% clamboring, punctuated by combat and the occasional puzzle mechanism.
So far the gist of the game for me is that its the most well put together game I've ever experienced, and easily the best looking overall, but its not my favorite Uncharted, and I'm really not sure whether its got any real replay value for a player like me who comes to the series for the action.
Storm Raider
Banned
Eh it was a really exaggerated satire of what some people think haha
Well, I guess that's a point, but jumping to conclusions is equally weird. On the whole I bet we can chalk this down to Editor fuckery. Wouldn't surprise me if the author wanted to go with "Exploration game" over "walking simulator". And if he didn't, he probably should've, more descriptive title anyway.
The shooting in COD feels great, then they ramp up the campaign to 11 and it all turns to shit. There is a reason why people praise the pacing of this game. This is because the developers realized good things are only "good" in moderation.
Jakartalado
Member
I played until chapter 21.
My father watched around 60% of the game. His last game was Star Fox 64 (and before that was maybe Pitfall and Pacman I guess).
I mean, my father is not a gamer and the whole time he complains that I just walk and watch people talking. I said it was like an Indiana Jones experience and he replied that I don't do anything, just walk.
So.... the article has a point.... but not for a gamer perspective.
You do walk a lot in every Uncharted game, but I'm always exploring everything, looking for clues (my favorite thing in Uncharted 4, treasures now have meaning) and enjoying every piece of render the game offers.
If you don't have the same excitement that I have playing a game and enjoying the experience, maybe you should reconsider calling youself a gamer.
Maybe could be Uncharted, but every game has something to experience, and if you can't find joy doing that.... it's time to stop playing games and saying shit about games.
My father watched around 60% of the game. His last game was Star Fox 64 (and before that was maybe Pitfall and Pacman I guess).
I mean, my father is not a gamer and the whole time he complains that I just walk and watch people talking. I said it was like an Indiana Jones experience and he replied that I don't do anything, just walk.
So.... the article has a point.... but not for a gamer perspective.
You do walk a lot in every Uncharted game, but I'm always exploring everything, looking for clues (my favorite thing in Uncharted 4, treasures now have meaning) and enjoying every piece of render the game offers.
If you don't have the same excitement that I have playing a game and enjoying the experience, maybe you should reconsider calling youself a gamer.
Maybe could be Uncharted, but every game has something to experience, and if you can't find joy doing that.... it's time to stop playing games and saying shit about games.
It's so eerie scrolling past that graveyard on the first page...
Just got to Snapping Turtle Mountain and found the place of my fortune. So far it's a lot more walking/looking than I expected, but things are really starting to pick up halfway through. The thing is, I did t really mind the slow start because it was just so damn beautiful and chalk full of story and characterization. Also the combat/gun fights are the best in the series. It's a treat when you enter an area and realize "this is an arena" and get excited because you're looking around at all the different possible approaches. Stealth around, go all action hero, or a bit of both. The mix of walk/sightseeing and action is nicely balanced. Although it is Uncharted. Action is the draw for the series. So yes, I would like more over the top, Drake vs an Army, train derailing, cargo plane exploding, cruise ship capsizing action. So far UC4 is different in this aspect. It's more grounded. Weirdly I'm enjoying the first half of Uncharted 4 in a similar way to TLOU.
Just got to Snapping Turtle Mountain and found the place of my fortune. So far it's a lot more walking/looking than I expected, but things are really starting to pick up halfway through. The thing is, I did t really mind the slow start because it was just so damn beautiful and chalk full of story and characterization. Also the combat/gun fights are the best in the series. It's a treat when you enter an area and realize "this is an arena" and get excited because you're looking around at all the different possible approaches. Stealth around, go all action hero, or a bit of both. The mix of walk/sightseeing and action is nicely balanced. Although it is Uncharted. Action is the draw for the series. So yes, I would like more over the top, Drake vs an Army, train derailing, cargo plane exploding, cruise ship capsizing action. So far UC4 is different in this aspect. It's more grounded. Weirdly I'm enjoying the first half of Uncharted 4 in a similar way to TLOU.
Some people can be pretty reactionary when it comes to Naughty Dog. I don't know how many of those posters were console warrior types, but not the most successful campaign for Sony-GAF if that was a driving force.
I haven't had a chance to play Uncharted 4, since I am not yet a PS4 owner. However, I have always enjoyed exploration in my games more than the actual combat/action. I wouldn't be completely adverse to a slower pace than Uncharted 3.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Post like yours do make me reconsider calling myself a gamer but not for the reasons you think.
Ricky Ricardo
Member
Show me the receipts.
MiamiWesker
Member
COD is shit for many many reasons, not cause it is constant action. RE4 is the greatest action game ever made and that game practically never stops. Old Doom has zero breaks, an absolute masterpiece. Mario games don't stop to tell a story, masterpieces. So no I cannot agree with you at all. The best game designers know how to take their gameplay to the maximum levels of diversity to keep the player engaged from start to finish.
That said I am not saying a game needs constant action, U2 had perfectly paced out downtime segments. U4 tries to do that after nearly every single gunfight.
Gold_Loot
Member
That's a fair point, and I understand where you're coming from, but. Why not just say "safe character design" ? Shouting " White Straight male" is becoming more cliché than the cliché itself.
This is only true if you consider Uncharted to be a third person shooter, whereby the medium of the game is shooting and variety is expressed through the medium of combat.
Uncharted is action/adventure and it uses more tools at its disposal to express that variety. Whether you like it or not is up to your tastes.
Granted, I'm only nine chapters in, but I actually like the increased focus on downtime, although I agree it could be much more engaging mechanically, especially where the "platforming" is concerned (still feels wrong to call it platforming).
Traversal is hyper-linear, and the only way you could fail it is jumping a second too early (which virtually never happens) or not tapping L1 fast enough to grapple when falling off a slope.
The exploration is at its best when it's not immediately clear which way to go. Sometimes you have to pan the camera a bit to find the next set of monkey bars, handholds, slope or grapple point. I like those moments where I have to mull over my surroundings a bit, as rare as they are.
Naughty Dog aren't the best game developers, but they still make an enjoyable experience with peerless production values. I think it's OK to enjoy the game like a walking simulator. If I want brilliant gameplay, I'll play a Nintendo, From Software or Platinum game. Naughty Dog is more about immersing yourself in a tale with seamless transitions from one bit to the next.
Traversal is hyper-linear, and the only way you could fail it is jumping a second too early (which virtually never happens) or not tapping L1 fast enough to grapple when falling off a slope.
The exploration is at its best when it's not immediately clear which way to go. Sometimes you have to pan the camera a bit to find the next set of monkey bars, handholds, slope or grapple point. I like those moments where I have to mull over my surroundings a bit, as rare as they are.
Naughty Dog aren't the best game developers, but they still make an enjoyable experience with peerless production values. I think it's OK to enjoy the game like a walking simulator. If I want brilliant gameplay, I'll play a Nintendo, From Software or Platinum game. Naughty Dog is more about immersing yourself in a tale with seamless transitions from one bit to the next.
MiamiWesker
Member
This is the most backward opinion I have ever read. If you are a gamer and love PLAYING games because of their mechanics and the joy you have of being engaged from a gameplay perspective then huge segments where all you do is walk around and press x on predetermined highlighted objects is not engaging.
You clearly enjoy boring gameplay, that's nice. Some of us want more than the illusion of exploration. Uncharted 4 does a great job of making the simple downtime sections be interesting through its unparalleled presentation, still I much rather be playing the parts with interesting gameplay, the combat.
Jawmuncher
Member
Can't say I agree with the case of UC4. The pacing for exploring and action is hugely unbalanced even compared to something like TLOU. The lack of more action didn't make me appreciate what I played, it made me wonder why it was so much less. There's good in moderation, and then there's bare minimum.
If I'm trying to have fun with a video game and there is something that is actively impeding my ability to have fun with said video game despite other fun elements being involved, I am sure as hell am going to continue saying shit about video games.
"Maybe this video game isn't for you" only goes so far as an answer, because the very idea of games evolving requires input from both people who are blind fans and those who aren't.
There could be a good idea for a change that no one in the "blind fan" category would've expected or come up with themselves, because they're so used to liking what they already have that they don't "need" that change, even if it ends up better for everyone.
No game is a literal 10/10. No game has literally perfected the medium. There is no "perfect video game". Because there is always something that could be improved. And sometimes fans of the series aren't the ones who are going to come up with that improvement, because from their perspective, there is nowhere else to go.
I think Uncharted could still be the magnificent cinematic production that it is, but with a hint more actual "gameplay" thrown in the mix. A bit more opportunity for the player to make a direct impact to the world around them, rather than being pushed down a hallway and expected to marvel at the sights around them. I don't think these two things are mutually exclusive, and I don't understand why some people (including in this very thread) are adamant that they couldn't be done in any other way.
It's very hard to explain.