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[EDMIX]

Instead of asking a better use of the world...


...you're asking for another shitty linear game.

lol agreed.


I feel FFXV did a great job with that open world with what they were doing.

You met new friends on the way, go to shops and different towns, do side quest along the way, hunts, camping, fishing, find different weapons and dungeons etc. It did what I expected and even if I wanted more or for it to be much deeper or something, I don't fault it for being open world, I simply hope for a better use of it.

But it had absolutely nothing to do with the story. This is what makes FF XV incredibly uneven

I disagree greatly, it has to do with the narrative of the journey and the overall adventure that they are on to allow for that free play to build that narrative naturally.

So this whole "nothing to do with the story' is a YOU thing, if thats what you want, MOST games are not for you then as what fucking game is coming where where the camping 100% has to with the story, the fishing, going to a bar etc?

So in Red Dead 2 when he goes camping do you think the character NEEDS to say some shit like "damn I can't wait to fucking kill the O'Driscolls as to why I'm camping"? lol Goes to bar and like "give me a drink, I need the courage to fucking kill the O'Driscolls" going hunting later "I need the funds to buy items to kill those fucking O'Driscolls and the shooting practice to KILL the O'Driscolls" lol

Just stop.

None of that shit needs to be hammered away at the fucking player and to my memory, MOST of the FF titles don't even try to force this thing were all things are based on the story directly. I'd argue what you are saying...with this logic can be applied to most games and most of the FF titles. So FFXV is not uneven, you are merely demanding something odd as if by default all things needed to lead directly to that story vs the overall narrative.

Yes please! Make a separate Skyrim wannabe game instead of shoe-horning it into a game where it served no purpose.

??? FF has been open world before Elder Scrolls even existed as a series.....fuck are you talking about?

Who watches the Versus XIII trailers and thinks I can't wait to run around green fields for hours?

? I don't know man, maybe the people that ran around green fields for hours in the original Final Fantasy games?

You pass the time listening to classic FF music on the car radio, which is kind of sad when you think about it.

Not really, one passes the time while playing the older FF titles leveling up literally listening to those classics...... So you just sound really, really...reallly new to the FF series, like FFXIII was your first one or something if you think FFXV being open world is copying Skyrim.

Doom85 I would never waste any energy with those videos talking about that subject. They are in love with a trailer and just made up fan fiction. The writer of the game confirmed the story is pretty much the same even minus a character replacement.

Its easy to say 1 game would be this or that with zero fucking information on that, lets say FFXV NEVER comes out, imagine looking at those trailers and saying "damn that game would have been GOTY" its easy to say this shit when you don't know the context of what you are even looking at. So I caution people to jump on this "what could have been" bandwagon as I feel FFXV is a great game, its story sucks, but its story was likely always going to suck regardless of those scenes we see in Versus XIII.



So we show you this cutscene ^

Then the game gets scrapped.

You don't see that you don't actually go in that first area, the dad isn't some main cast that is talked to a bunch, in fact you don't know what you don't know and have no clue that for the next 70...most of what you saw isn't the focus of the game. Really think about it.

So when I see shit like this.



So how does one not know that this was just the opening and the rest was going to be complete shit after? lol

Showing him with the girl in that dinner place doesn't really mean MORE was going on with that concept, for all you know that is as much as was ever going to go on with that scene. So I think people have imagined waaaay more of what they wanted it to be vs what it was likely going to be and from what the writer is saying, it doesn't sound like we went from GOTG to UTTER SHIT, it sounds like the story could have been shit from the jump. I don't buy that showing 1 fucking dinner party and a mech scene in the opening and having it be 99% the same suddenly equals master piece. I simply believe people are allowing their imaginations run wild with fan fiction and what they didn't see, they are not exaggerating as if THAT was suppose to be the best.




So if we say this game is canned and this was its reveal trailer or something ^

I don't know much that really tells you about the final game. The girl character sucks we know, yet how the fuck would you know that looking this trailer exactly? Thus...how was one going to know it was going to be better based on Versus XIII? You guys didn't know shit was going to suck based on a trailer, but wait...ya'll knew it was going to be greatness based on another trailer?

Doubt.

The FFXV writer's comment is more then enough for me to disregard those scenes. People are just living a glass half empty mind set with those trailers, as they'd just do the same with FFXV if it never came out, talking about dogs, mechs and shit lol The chocobo running in the field scene and they'd be like "da real FF was cancelled" lol

 

[Notabueno]

Bravo!

That's actually a great observation, and anyone would has played FFXV AND previous FFs can only agree: the open-world was the most boring, annoying, redundant and "campy" aspect of it, for me it even sort of ruined it.

Maybe had the open-world aspect been way better it would have been okay, but the problem is that FFXV was release in a time when OW where already conceptually redundant and limited.

 

[Kumomeme]

Final Fantasy VII Remake is exactly the same, or even worse and everybody loved it!
The linear excuse for not liking XIII is unfounded. There is nothing wrong if a game is linear, it was some else that people hated but somehow attributed it to the linearity.

VII Remake's linearity is way different than XIII. FFXIII linearity is more like on tube rail where player just hopped on in with no way around else other than foward according to the track. like a nonstop marathon instead of journey. lack of player agency. walk>cutscene>walk>cutscene thats all. no town, no npc while VII Remake not like this. you even move back foward between area, end up stay at one location long and can even roam some of the area despite being small. the game linearity remind me of sony first party game. far cry from what FFXIII been doing.

 

[Honey Bunny]

lol agreed.


I feel FFXV did a great job with that open world with what they were doing.

You met new friends on the way, go to shops and different towns, do side quest along the way, hunts, camping, fishing, find different weapons and dungeons etc. It did what I expected and even if I wanted more or for it to be much deeper or something, I don't fault it for being open world, I simply hope for a better use of it.



I disagree greatly, it has to do with the narrative of the journey and the overall adventure that they are on to allow for that free play to build that narrative naturally.

So this whole "nothing to do with the story' is a YOU thing, if thats what you want, MOST games are not for you then as what fucking game is coming where where the camping 100% has to with the story, the fishing, going to a bar etc?

So in Red Dead 2 when he goes camping do you think the character NEEDS to say some shit like "damn I can't wait to fucking kill the O'Driscolls as to why I'm camping"? lol Goes to bar and like "give me a drink, I need the courage to fucking kill the O'Driscolls" going hunting later "I need the funds to buy items to kill those fucking O'Driscolls and the shooting practice to KILL the O'Driscolls" lol

Just stop.

None of that shit needs to be hammered away at the fucking player and to my memory, MOST of the FF titles don't even try to force this thing were all things are based on the story directly. I'd argue what you are saying...with this logic can be applied to most games and most of the FF titles. So FFXV is not uneven, you are merely demanding something odd as if by default all things needed to lead directly to that story vs the overall narrative.



??? FF has been open world before Elder Scrolls even existed as a series.....fuck are you talking about?



? I don't know man, maybe the people that ran around green fields for hours in the original Final Fantasy games?





Not really, one passes the time while playing the older FF titles leveling up literally listening to those classics...... So you just sound really, really...reallly new to the FF series, like FFXIII was your first one or something if you think FFXV being open world is copying Skyrim.

Doom85 I would never waste any energy with those videos talking about that subject. They are in love with a trailer and just made up fan fiction. The writer of the game confirmed the story is pretty much the same even minus a character replacement.

Its easy to say 1 game would be this or that with zero fucking information on that, lets say FFXV NEVER comes out, imagine looking at those trailers and saying "damn that game would have been GOTY" its easy to say this shit when you don't know the context of what you are even looking at. So I caution people to jump on this "what could have been" bandwagon as I feel FFXV is a great game, its story sucks, but its story was likely always going to suck regardless of those scenes we see in Versus XIII.



So we show you this cutscene ^

Then the game gets scrapped.

You don't see that you don't actually go in that first area, the dad isn't some main cast that is talked to a bunch, in fact you don't know what you don't know and have no clue that for the next 70...most of what you saw isn't the focus of the game. Really think about it.

So when I see shit like this.



So how does one not know that this was just the opening and the rest was going to be complete shit after? lol

Showing him with the girl in that dinner place doesn't really mean MORE was going on with that concept, for all you know that is as much as was ever going to go on with that scene. So I think people have imagined waaaay more of what they wanted it to be vs what it was likely going to be and from what the writer is saying, it doesn't sound like we went from GOTG to UTTER SHIT, it sounds like the story could have been shit from the jump. I don't buy that showing 1 fucking dinner party and a mech scene in the opening and having it be 99% the same suddenly equals master piece. I simply believe people are allowing their imaginations run wild with fan fiction and what they didn't see, they are not exaggerating as if THAT was suppose to be the best.




So if we say this game is canned and this was its reveal trailer or something ^

I don't know much that really tells you about the final game. The girl character sucks we know, yet how the fuck would you know that looking this trailer exactly? Thus...how was one going to know it was going to be better based on Versus XIII? You guys didn't know shit was going to suck based on a trailer, but wait...ya'll knew it was going to be greatness based on another trailer?

Doubt.

The FFXV writer's comment is more then enough for me to disregard those scenes. People are just living a glass half empty mind set with those trailers, as they'd just do the same with FFXV if it never came out, talking about dogs, mechs and shit lol The chocobo running in the field scene and they'd be like "da real FF was cancelled" lol

I'll be honest brother I'm not reading all that

 

[UltimaKilo]

OP's philosophy: the shittier, the better!

 

[Batiman]

The two games that pretty much killed my interest in the franchise. It’s nothing like it’s former self. It started with 10 IMO. I gave up on FF7 remastered after like 5 hours and the original is one of my goats. The open world in 15 is the least of its problems. They can’t even make a single likeable character anymore and that was always the best part of the franchise.

 

[EDMIX]

I'll be honest brother I'm not reading all that

lol its best to go that route for you, I don't really think you can prove most of the past FF titles had that open world stuff always tied to the story directly or something. A lot of your comments seem to expose you don't even know the originals root concepts with open world, especially if you are citing Skyrim.


You made the thread about this, but you thought someone wasn't going to discuss it and question your odd points?

 

[TheInfamousKira]

"If you can literally just spam 1 button and be as successful if not *more* so than using basic strategy for more than half the game, you done fucked up your game." Re-read the bolded part. Yes, you can "spam" the attack button in earlier Final Fantasy titles, but very quickly you will find that you are wasting a *lot* of time. Using even the most basic of strategies can allow you to finish fights in a far faster, more efficient manner.

This isn't the case in FFXIII. Spamming the Auto Battle Button is just as successful, if not more so, for more than half the game. Even past that half way point, you can still freely spam Auto Battle with the rare paradigm shift

This has literally never happened to me. There is no strategy or skill involved aside from 2-3 fights in the end game/hunts section.

Except it isn't. There is no timing needed. Spend a few seconds in one paradigm, buff/debuff, heal in another paradigm, attack in another. Its the most simplistic and brain dead of the combat systems.

Auto Battle literally defeats the vast majority of the game as fast, if not faster, than trying to manually choose abilities. It takes seconds to set up paradigms and there is literally almost no thought to them aside from a few end-game optional bosses/enemies. We literally have a decade of data on this already that can easily be found with a quick google search and going into GameFAQs. The only time the battle system actually requires thought is near the tail end of the game. That is over 30-40 hours into the adventure and it is *fucking abyssmal*.

There is no point in "engaging with its systems" when it offers a way that is as good if not better for the majority of its run time to avoid them. That is the fault of shitty game design.

It definitely isn't "more successful," that's just legitimate incorrect information, reflected in battle results, how far you undercut target time, points for second, etc. Completing a fight doesn't mean you did it as effectively as possible. It reminds me a lot of FFVIII, in that regard. The battle system is free to break, abuse, be brain dead, or play straight.

Setting up Paradigms and switching them often grants so many bonuses in mid to late game. I can understand why you think the battle system is boring if all you do is hit auto battle, haha. There's several things at play here. The full ATB charge that happens if you wait ten seconds before switching Paradigms. Choosing an action like Army of One as a Ravager and then switching to a Commando for the increase in physical damage on the attack. Manipulating the hidden stat that determines whether you tank an attack like Aeroga or are sucked into it. Using Repeat and Cancel commands to manipulate the speed and sequence of your party member's attacks to do things like effectively juggle a launched, staggered enemy. Using abilities instead of Auto Battle so you can alternate different abilities to raise the chain gauge quicker instead of the AI's tendency to prioritize damage over stagger. Even things like switching a Paradigm to one with a Sentinel to gather your party together and then switching to a Commando so the AI is tricked into staying back and avoiding an AoE attack, to spare weaker members damage. There is *SO* much here that is being ignored to make a bad faith point.

If you don't vibe with it, then more power to you, man. Not everything is for every person. But there's a lot more under the hood than you give it credit for.

 

[Umbasaborne]

The entire game takes place in an area that’s like the size of a state park. Dotted with little “towns” with diners and hotels and stuff that are like a few minutes’ jog from each other.

despite being “open world” it feels so small and limited in scope compared to the other FF games.

The open world was originally much, much bigger, but they ran out of time and made the rest of the world a boring train ride. People have managed to get out of the train and most of the world its going through is detailed and playable

 

[RafterXL]

The open world would have been fine had they actually taken advantage of it. As it is FFXIV being an absolutely terrible game made FFXIII look like a decent game, which might make linearity seem the way to go.

Either way Final Fantasy has been a garbage franchise for two decades, the only real option for a decent experience is the MMO and even that takes a good 40 hours to stop being shit.

 

[Graciaus]

??? FF has been open world before Elder Scrolls even existed as a series.....fuck are you talking about?

Having a world map doesn't make it open world. The games are linear and you are gated almost always.

 

[Thief1987]

OP, then pocket edition is your choice

 

[Amiga]

The whole game would turn into those lame DLC episodes. No thanks.
The open world was the only playable part for me. My issue is moving around in it was cumbersome.

 

[cireza]

FF XV had an open-world I actually wanted to explore, which is one the few games that succeeded in this aspect. Because it was unpredictable, you never new what you were going to find. It had a great variety of enemies and many dungeons. Its geography was quite surprising as well. It did not feel forcefully filled with repetitive stuff.

I think it was fine as it was. And ending on a linear, more theatrical set-piece, was the best way to build intensity for the end-game.

 

[KiteGr]

Both games where unfinished. The later much MUCH more than the former.

 

[Interfectum]

The camping? It was great fun. The open world? it was beautiful.

But it had absolutely nothing to do with the story. This is what makes FF XV feel incredibly uneven - the linear act where *things actually happen* is half-assed while the open world act with zero relevance to the story feels like the focus of the game.

All that effort should have been spent fleshing out Insomnia, Altissia and Tenebrae instead of leaving them as pretty husks to gaze at. But they were probably too scared of another FF XIII backlash, so we got to *imagine* what was happening in these cities - and to Luna - while we dicked around in a field that took 3 minutes to autodrive to.

They made XIII and XV in the wrong order - XIII should have had the lush open world and XV/Versus XIII should have been the story driven, urban, corridor JRPG.

Agreed. The open world is at odds with the main theme of the story (4 dudes on a road trip).

It's hard to believe the road trip angle when you are continuously double backing to the initial gas station.

A linear experience that takes the guys on a roller coaster ride would have played much better with the theme they were going for.

 

[EDMIX]

Having a world map doesn't make it open world. The games are linear and you are gated almost always.

yea bud none of that semantic shit matters, you are still doing many of the same things in those older titles that you'd do in FFXV and I'd argue you might do more in FFXV then in some of those older titles.

So to say some shit like "world map" and pretend you didn't have a fucking vehicle, optional dungeons and bosses, optional weapons, able to go to towns and inns etc is a load of horseshit sir... You are doing many of the same things, simply in 3D.

Make your point instead of just saying "doesn't make it" xyz, actually fucking REALLY detail what you are talking about and define those differences. I think you actually know that when you start listing them off, they are more alike, then different. So you can't get in a vehicle and go right to the last boss in the older FF's anymore then you can in FFXV, so I'd argue FFXV is the closest to that older concept as you have more open world FF titles then linear like FFX bud.

Interfectum Maybe. I agree that the theme many times doesn't fit the tone of some of the things going on, but I can't blame the open world design for that, I blame the writing, narrative, lore etc

As in, this man is a fucking Prince, he should be mobbed by fans as soon as he goes to any gas station lol Paparazzi should be out here harrassing him asking him how he feels about the war and the take over lol That has more to do with narrative and story, then I'd say the world design itself. The older FF titles, we just had to imagine a lot of that stuff like going from one inn to the next in FF4, you could imagine some tone or something, but put that game in 4K with fully 3D models and that shit starts to look weird when Cid killing himself and then he out here with some nurses 5 minutes later lol So a lot of that stuff was easy to imply and you sorta needed to imagine a lot of it, where with how advance games are today, one needs to really work hard to drive that narrative home and i feel the game doesn't do that great of a job reminding you this person is the next in line for some massive kingdom, even with the few times a NPC notices you are the prince.

I also greatly disagree with the whole "It's hard to believe the road trip angle when you are continuously double backing to the initial gas station" that if anything makes more sense then this person is a prince and folks want to kill him lol Going to gas stations, staying at motels, buying shit, camping etc all go hand in hand, its when you factor the whole......war, assassination's, royalty it all goes to shit lol So i didn't have an issue with what you did in the game, I had an issue with the overall narrative that many elements, didn't drive home what was going on in the story. Its almost as if they didn't want it to be too dark or depressing and wanted it like a buddy theme type thing where I feel it does well, but it story then trying to make it some deep dark thing while the thing you do day to day doesn't reflect a lot of that is odd.

It wasn't a deal breaker for me as I don't really care for most of the FF titles story anyway, but I did feel that the world should reflect more of what the story is actually trying to say about those characters, but not the point of arguing it to be linear, open world is not the fault of what went wrong with FFXV tone, its writing and narrative was.

The open world aspect imho is the best thing they pulled off in that title, the story being shit is not the fault of those designers, as the open world is not to blame on why they choose to not have NPCs react to you more often, have people run to take pictures of you, a lot of that sounds like a choice they made for the narrative and shouldn't be blamed on an open world existing as if the default of open world means oblivious to reality or something lol You can have a open world game that sees them travel and have NPCs know he is the prince and have them not know that the kingdom is under attack until after the fact changing the tone or something.

 

[Amiga]

Agreed. The open world is at odds with the main theme of the story (4 dudes on a road trip).

It's hard to believe the road trip angle when you are continuously double backing to the initial gas station.

A linear experience that takes the guys on a roller coaster ride would have played much better with the theme they were going for.

Death Stranding pulled off a liner story in an open world . the difference is in the director obviously. FF needs a Yuji Horii, or just bring Sakaguchi back.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[EDMIX]

Final Fantasy X was linear, but it was so good I was never bothered by it.
Final Fantasy 13 on the other hand...

But at the end of the day all Final Fantasies are linear.
In some games you have more freedom to explore a very specific region or backtrack a little bit, but sooner or later you're forced to follow along where the game wants you to and you're locked again in another region without being able to backtrack to the previous one.
Then at the end it gives you all the freedom to backtrack to all those regions you had previously been locked in little by little, and sometimes even some new secret locations.

So at the end of the day, Final Fantasy got worse not because of the linear/open design, but because the people that made it good for all those years left the company.
It used to be amazing in all aspects (gameplay, story, characters, music, content, progression), and now it only manages to be good in a couple of those.

Lost Odyssey and The Last Story are proof that Sakaguchi and Uematsu were the people that kept the series alive.

I'd say this might be the best answer to this.

Linear in story, open in world ,map etc. If you mean linear as in one can't really go to the last boss, that is very much at I mean as you can have a open world that still has that limitation as FFXV actually does.

I agree with the aspects differing from game to game more then back in the day, but even then I feel i personally didn't like a lot of those stories to even judge harshly lol I also just can't say Sakaguchi and a composer kept the series alive as right now they are moving more units of that IP, not less. If they were the true ones even factoring into most of this, Sakaguchi's titles post FF should be doing gangbusters. I have nothing against a difference of view, but I don't see a lot that tells me FF as an IP is dead based on them leaving, I'd argue they moved the most units when someone else was directing..., but I digress, convo for another day.

I do wonder how much any of this will factor into FFXVI. FFXV having almost 10 years development and shifting directors, platforms etc must have really fucked with a lot of what was going on, so FFXVI might give us more answers to that if such a fuck up (in terms of story, narrative and some features vs sales) was because the wild development or just the team in general. Maybe with less fuck ups like changing platforms, 1 director staying from beginning to end etc FFXVI does better and it wasn't just based on lack of Sakaguchi or something. Who knows.

 

[kalecsan]

It doesn't matter if it's linear or open world. If it's an rpg, the main attractive is the writing. And all AAA modern writing sucks (Except u know)

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

FFXIII story and characters sucked

 

[Ebidramon]

Think there will be a world map in FFVIIR part 2?

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Think there will be a world map in FFVIIR part 2?

I hope so

 

[Graciaus]

yea bud none of that semantic shit matters, you are still doing many of the same things in those older titles that you'd do in FFXV and I'd argue you might do more in FFXV then in some of those older titles.

So to say some shit like "world map" and pretend you didn't have a fucking vehicle, optional dungeons and bosses, optional weapons, able to go to towns and inns etc is a load of horseshit sir... You are doing many of the same things, simply in 3D.

Make your point instead of just saying "doesn't make it" xyz, actually fucking REALLY detail what you are talking about and define those differences. I think you actually know that when you start listing them off, they are more alike, then different. So you can't get in a vehicle and go right to the last boss in the older FF's anymore then you can in FFXV, so I'd argue FFXV is the closest to that older concept as you have more open world FF titles then linear like FFX bud.

Interfectum Maybe. I agree that the theme many times doesn't fit the tone of some of the things going on, but I can't blame the open world design for that, I blame the writing, narrative, lore etc

As in, this man is a fucking Prince, he should be mobbed by fans as soon as he goes to any gas station lol Paparazzi should be out here harrassing him asking him how he feels about the war and the take over lol That has more to do with narrative and story, then I'd say the world design itself. The older FF titles, we just had to imagine a lot of that stuff like going from one inn to the next in FF4, you could imagine some tone or something, but put that game in 4K with fully 3D models and that shit starts to look weird when Cid killing himself and then he out here with some nurses 5 minutes later lol So a lot of that stuff was easy to imply and you sorta needed to imagine a lot of it, where with how advance games are today, one needs to really work hard to drive that narrative home and i feel the game doesn't do that great of a job reminding you this person is the next in line for some massive kingdom, even with the few times a NPC notices you are the prince.

I also greatly disagree with the whole "It's hard to believe the road trip angle when you are continuously double backing to the initial gas station" that if anything makes more sense then this person is a prince and folks want to kill him lol Going to gas stations, staying at motels, buying shit, camping etc all go hand in hand, its when you factor the whole......war, assassination's, royalty it all goes to shit lol So i didn't have an issue with what you did in the game, I had an issue with the overall narrative that many elements, didn't drive home what was going on in the story. Its almost as if they didn't want it to be too dark or depressing and wanted it like a buddy theme type thing where I feel it does well, but it story then trying to make it some deep dark thing while the thing you do day to day doesn't reflect a lot of that is odd.

It wasn't a deal breaker for me as I don't really care for most of the FF titles story anyway, but I did feel that the world should reflect more of what the story is actually trying to say about those characters, but not the point of arguing it to be linear, open world is not the fault of what went wrong with FFXV tone, its writing and narrative was.

The open world aspect imho is the best thing they pulled off in that title, the story being shit is not the fault of those designers, as the open world is not to blame on why they choose to not have NPCs react to you more often, have people run to take pictures of you, a lot of that sounds like a choice they made for the narrative and shouldn't be blamed on an open world existing as if the default of open world means oblivious to reality or something lol You can have a open world game that sees them travel and have NPCs know he is the prince and have them not know that the kingdom is under attack until after the fact changing the tone or something.

The games are a linear experience. You go from a to b with little choice in the matter. Even if you can go to a c option it will be blocked off or not do anything until you do b. Just because you eventually get an airship and can explore a little doesn't make it an open world game.

Now compair that to something like Romancing Saga 3 which is actually open world. The game can be completed in any order you wish.

 

[EDMIX]

The games are a linear experience. You go from a to b with little choice in the matter. Even if you can go to a c option it will be blocked off or not do anything until you do b. Just because you eventually get an airship and can explore a little doesn't make it an open world game.

Now compair that to something like Romancing Saga 3 which is actually open world. The game can be completed in any order you wish.

Like I said....semantics, the thing you just fucking said applies to FFXV, you can't just go to the fucking final boss or just skip whole segments or something. So if anyone is saying open world in this regard, we mean you are physically in a fucking big world with towns, inns, vehicles to travel, optional dungeons etc

If anyone is arguing some open format type story where you can cut to the last boss or skip the whole game or anything like that, they'll tell you that directly, so I don't believe anyone here is really arguing that is what FFXV is.

Dear god, even using the term in this weird way, GTA doesn't even fit that as you are blocked off, must complete A to get to B lol In the new AC titles, you are blocked off by level or until you get a ship etc those are not open world? So.......I think the term just means an open world to play in man, this whole "any order you wish" by default doesn't fucking mean open world. Many games cited as open world do not have such a format, it can be in open world games....

It is not by default the term of open world games....that is simply some narrative that you are forcing btw. Something being linear or open in terms of the story order can be done in a small world or larger world or even in a level by level format, as in Mega Man you can fucking complete the game in many orders, is that open world too? =)

So that term isn't some default exclusive thing based on order like you trying to make it sound like...

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Graciaus]

Like I said....semantics, the thing you just fucking said applies to FFXV, you can't just go to the fucking final boss or just skip whole segments or something. So if anyone is saying open world in this regard, we mean you are physically in a fucking big world with towns, inns, vehicles to travel, optional dungeons etc

If anyone is arguing some open format type story where you can cut to the last boss or skip the whole game or anything like that, they'll tell you that directly, so I don't believe anyone here is really arguing that is what FFXV is.

Dear god, even using the term in this weird way, GTA doesn't even fit that as you are blocked off, must complete A to get to B lol In the new AC titles, you are blocked off by level or until you get a ship etc those are not open world? So.......I think the term just means an open world to play in man, this whole "any order you wish" by default doesn't fucking mean open world. Many games cited as open world do not have such a format, it can be in open world games....

It is not by default the term of open world games....that is simply some narrative that you are forcing btw. Something being linear or open in terms of the story order can be done in a small world or larger world or even in a level by level format, as in Mega Man you can fucking complete the game in many orders, is that open world too? =)

So that term isn't some default exclusive thing based on order like you trying to make it sound like...

Your GTA example you can complete the missions in any order until the defined ones. Or you can completely ignore them and just explore the sandbox doing whatever. Try doing that in Final Fantasy. All you can do is go from the town you were in to the next town with a dungeon in the middle. Just because there is a slight "open world" mechanic which is like 5% of the game near the end isn't really the same thing as being open world. Are you the type of person who thinks any game that has RPG elements is an RPG? Mega Man is an open world structure. The levels themself are linear but the order you chose to beat them in is open.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Cute

Best WAIFU in Cold Steel

 

[TheInfamousKira]

yea bud none of that semantic shit matters, you are still doing many of the same things in those older titles that you'd do in FFXV and I'd argue you might do more in FFXV then in some of those older titles.

So to say some shit like "world map" and pretend you didn't have a fucking vehicle, optional dungeons and bosses, optional weapons, able to go to towns and inns etc is a load of horseshit sir... You are doing many of the same things, simply in 3D.

Make your point instead of just saying "doesn't make it" xyz, actually fucking REALLY detail what you are talking about and define those differences. I think you actually know that when you start listing them off, they are more alike, then different. So you can't get in a vehicle and go right to the last boss in the older FF's anymore then you can in FFXV, so I'd argue FFXV is the closest to that older concept as you have more open world FF titles then linear like FFX bud.

Interfectum Maybe. I agree that the theme many times doesn't fit the tone of some of the things going on, but I can't blame the open world design for that, I blame the writing, narrative, lore etc

As in, this man is a fucking Prince, he should be mobbed by fans as soon as he goes to any gas station lol Paparazzi should be out here harrassing him asking him how he feels about the war and the take over lol That has more to do with narrative and story, then I'd say the world design itself. The older FF titles, we just had to imagine a lot of that stuff like going from one inn to the next in FF4, you could imagine some tone or something, but put that game in 4K with fully 3D models and that shit starts to look weird when Cid killing himself and then he out here with some nurses 5 minutes later lol So a lot of that stuff was easy to imply and you sorta needed to imagine a lot of it, where with how advance games are today, one needs to really work hard to drive that narrative home and i feel the game doesn't do that great of a job reminding you this person is the next in line for some massive kingdom, even with the few times a NPC notices you are the prince.

I also greatly disagree with the whole "It's hard to believe the road trip angle when you are continuously double backing to the initial gas station" that if anything makes more sense then this person is a prince and folks want to kill him lol Going to gas stations, staying at motels, buying shit, camping etc all go hand in hand, its when you factor the whole......war, assassination's, royalty it all goes to shit lol So i didn't have an issue with what you did in the game, I had an issue with the overall narrative that many elements, didn't drive home what was going on in the story. Its almost as if they didn't want it to be too dark or depressing and wanted it like a buddy theme type thing where I feel it does well, but it story then trying to make it some deep dark thing while the thing you do day to day doesn't reflect a lot of that is odd.

It wasn't a deal breaker for me as I don't really care for most of the FF titles story anyway, but I did feel that the world should reflect more of what the story is actually trying to say about those characters, but not the point of arguing it to be linear, open world is not the fault of what went wrong with FFXV tone, its writing and narrative was.

The open world aspect imho is the best thing they pulled off in that title, the story being shit is not the fault of those designers, as the open world is not to blame on why they choose to not have NPCs react to you more often, have people run to take pictures of you, a lot of that sounds like a choice they made for the narrative and shouldn't be blamed on an open world existing as if the default of open world means oblivious to reality or something lol You can have a open world game that sees them travel and have NPCs know he is the prince and have them not know that the kingdom is under attack until after the fact changing the tone or something.

I agree with a lot of stuff here. I figured I'd make one "correction," though, for the sake of being a canon-whore. According to the devs (and this could very well be a cork for the plot hole you mentioned) Noctis isn't well recognized in Lucis because his father made his presence very insular and protected. Noctis hardly was allowed to go anywhere outside of the palace and private schools.

 

[EDMIX]

I agree with a lot of stuff here. I figured I'd make one "correction," though, for the sake of being a canon-whore. According to the devs (and this could very well be a cork for the plot hole you mentioned) Noctis isn't well recognized in Lucis because his father made his presence very insular and protected. Noctis hardly was allowed to go anywhere outside of the palace and private schools.

True, that was the only thing i felt could save that entire thing in terms of the narrative. Like if the father simply never wanted him in the public eye.

Your GTA example you can complete the missions in any order until the defined ones.

You can complete many dungeons in Final Fantasy until the defined ones....

In GTA you are also locked out of areas until certain missions JUST like in Final Fantasy...you are not fucking talking about some radically different thing.

Or you can completely ignore them and just explore the sandbox doing whatever.

Same in FF....you can go to many towns and you are restricted to a certain point until you get a vehicle or pass a certain point.

GTA III you can't go across the bridge until a certain mission
GTA VC you can't go to the little Haiti area until a certain mission
GTA SA you can't go to the Vegas area until a certain mission, where the fuck did you get this "do whatever"? Cause you saw a few minutes of a Twitch stream or something and just assumed GTA was this go anywhere zero restrictions yolo type thing? lol

Try doing that in Final Fantasy

Try? You literally can do this in many Final Fantasy titles, as in you can literally ignore the main dungeon you need to go to and go to some optional one, or go to a different town and explore etc

lol you starting to fucking see how hard it is to make that argument huh?

Mega Man is an open world structure. The levels themself are linear but the order you chose to beat them in is open.

Yea bud, it was a joke, Mega Man isn't a fucking open world game, even trying to force this shit like "open world STUTURCTURESZ" lol stop man. No one is fucking saying that to define the older Mega Man titles, I've literally never heard anyone use that to talk about those titles and only recall Mega Man Legends used to describe that. When you google open world Mega Man, the first game you see is the legends games, you don't fucking see people forcing this fake ass narrative that OPEN WORLD now just means anything where you can beat them in different orders regardless of the level design and world, I've never seen the term used as some default that way and seeing how you are struggling even with the GTA one, it tells me you don't know what you are talking about and can't really find a way to make it sound different then FF titles.

So...I don't think you know what you are talking about it sounds like you haven't even played some of those games. With this weird logic, no game is even open world lol Be like "you MUST be able to kill the last boss 2 min into the game to be REALY open world" and or "you MUST be able to ignore all missions and skip right into the credits 5 seconds into the game (not 6 or 7 seconds, I must be clear) to be TRUE, REAL, PURE open world"

The fact that you are literally having a hard time even finding 1 game that fits your term for this and that you didn't even realize GTA had those limitations is hilarious.

 

[GymWolf]

Ffxv should have been cancelled.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

True, that was the only thing i felt could save that entire thing in terms of the narrative. Like if the father simply never wanted him in the public eye.



You can complete many dungeons in Final Fantasy until the defined ones....

In GTA you are also locked out of areas until certain missions JUST like in Final Fantasy...you are not fucking talking about some radically different thing.





Same in FF....you can go to many towns and you are restricted to a certain point until you get a vehicle or pass a certain point.

GTA III you can't go across the bridge until a certain mission
GTA VC you can't go to the little Haiti area until a certain mission
GTA SA you can't go to the Vegas area until a certain mission, where the fuck did you get this "do whatever"? Cause you saw a few minutes of a Twitch stream or something and just assumed GTA was this go anywhere zero restrictions yolo type thing? lol



Try? You literally can do this in many Final Fantasy titles, as in you can literally ignore the main dungeon you need to go to and go to some optional one, or go to a different town and explore etc

lol you starting to fucking see how hard it is to make that argument huh?




Yea bud, it was a joke, Mega Man isn't a fucking open world game, even trying to force this shit like "open world STUTURCTURESZ" lol stop man. No one is fucking saying that to define the older Mega Man titles, I've literally never heard anyone use that to talk about those titles and only recall Mega Man Legends used to describe that. When you google open world Mega Man, the first game you see is the legends games, you don't fucking see people forcing this fake ass narrative that OPEN WORLD now just means anything where you can beat them in different orders regardless of the level design and world, I've never seen the term used as some default that way and seeing how you are struggling even with the GTA one, it tells me you don't know what you are talking about and can't really find a way to make it sound different then FF titles.

So...I don't think you know what you are talking about it sounds like you haven't even played some of those games. With this weird logic, no game is even open world lol Be like "you MUST be able to kill the last boss 2 min into the game to be REALY open world" and or "you MUST be able to ignore all missions and skip right into the credits 5 seconds into the game (not 6 or 7 seconds, I must be clear) to be TRUE, REAL, PURE open world"

The fact that you are literally having a hard time even finding 1 game that fits your term for this and that you didn't even realize GTA had those limitations is hilarious.

Yeah, I think there are a couple of throwaway lines the first time you go to Hammerhead basically saying no one will recognize you outside of Insomnia because you were sheltered so much. Most of the evidence to that point comes from Brotherhood, and that's a whole other issue. I love supplemental material, but Brotherhood/Kingsglaive are basically the first act of the game. Really pertinent, important information relegated to side content that I'm sure some players aren't even aware exist.

As for your other point, I kind of adopt Naughty Dog's terminology of "wide linear," for most of the first half of the Final Fantasy series. When you reach the overworld (and in some games, you actually START there) you do have relative freedom in where you want to go. Grinding on trash mobs, exploring towns, buying equipment, etc. The limitation comes in the fact that you're landlocked in the beginning of the game, so that freedom of choice only extends to the continent you start on. The only way to open up travel by sea or air is through narrative events, and those narrative events are tightly structured and sequenced. So it's open until it forces linear sections on you.

It's a lot different from FFXIII or FFXV if you ask me. There were times in FFXV (this is a pro AND a con) where I'd be on my way to a main quest, and get distracted on side content for literally dozens of hours. The recommended level for the final storyline quest is 45, I think, and I was approaching the final dungeon in the mid-90's. I know you can do the same thing in older games, but I think the key difference is you essentially start the game with the capability to reach most of the game world. Barring roadblocks, you can explore all of Lucis, and outside of Cartanica, Niflheim, and Altissia, that's literally the entire game world.

But on the other hand, FFXV DOES force linearity on you at certain points before the second half. Things like having your car stolen or broken down effectively prevents you from free exploration until you pass by that section of story. I guess it's all up to perspective. I'm not a fair person to talk to, because I've enjoyed all of the mainline games. I appreciate the anthology nature of the games, so I embrace the fact that they're all different and excel (and fail at) different elements.

 

[base]

For me FFXV was a great game but I miss the old Noctis. The one promoted in FF XIII Versus. A badass guy.

 

[Andrew Evenstar]

i really wanted XV to be great. now that i look back, ff13 is the better game and i hated on 13 for a long time. i even sold the japanese game before even finishing it because i was not happy with it.

ff15's battle system is clunky and awkward. the music and world is beautiful but the game is a mess. one of these days i'll play through it again. i'm happy they finally improved that style battle system with 7,

 

[Majukun]

have not played FXV , but nothing should be like FF XIII

FFXIII shouldn't have been like FF XIII