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Fighting Games Weekly | March 3-9 | Edition Edition

C

Cosmo Clock 21

Banned
Sixfortyfive said:
I've always felt that there's an inherent handicap when it comes to turning video games into a viable, big-time competitive affair, and it's something similar to that linked argument: Video games are disposable entertainment with a short shelf life. They're tied to technology that becomes outdated and undesirable. There's a lot of risk in building a career or league out of such a shaky foundation that other hobbies and sports just don't have to worry about.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say other pasttimes don't need to worry about it - look at the failure of professional leagues like the XFL and the struggles MLS has had trying to gain mindshare in the US. The NFL, FIFA, and PGA are just as much brands as Street Fighter and DOTA, but the difference is that their declines and rises in popularity and talent pool have histories on the order of decades rather than years.

Of course videogame-based competitive sports have unique problems that physical sports don't but there are also benefits to the digital medium. Unfortunately as far as fighting games go Capcom USA is the only entity that seems to have a hint of an idea to grow the FGC in terms of competitive branding, but at the current juncture if they succeed it'll only be through luck rather than know-how.
 
K

Kimosabae

Banned
Sixfortyfive said:
I've always felt that there's an inherent handicap when it comes to turning video games into a viable, big-time competitive affair, and it's something similar to that linked argument: Video games are disposable entertainment with a short shelf life. They're tied to technology that becomes outdated and undesirable. There's a lot of risk in building a career or league out of such a shaky foundation that other hobbies and sports just don't have to worry about.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a point Kirblar would look to address. Me? I'm more concerned with the socio-cultural and intellectual aspects the competitiveness facilitates. While I have little desire to make a career out of playing FGs, the potential economic gains keep me invested in its growth. Not because I personally look to make gains, but through a desire to be part of something larger than myself with a potential for cultural impact. I believe in competitive games as a valid medium for expression and the spiritual/productive growth of a person. Self-actualization through Street Fighter is definitely a thing, and could be more of a thing. I believe that trumps the traditionally disposable nature of playing games without that mindset that you previously mentioned. I believe playing games with a self-actualizing focus as opposed to without one to be a moral precept, even.

Truth be told: were it not for the potential of competitive fighting games, it's very unlikely that I'd be interested in video games at all. I'd get involved in a more "productive" hobby, something less "disposable". But I believe the potential is definitely there for fighting games to be productive which is why they hold my interest (for now at least).
 
B

Beckx

Member
Infinite said:
thanks im reading that wiki too. trying to get into this game. . . ready to import lol
Click to expand...

Okay - so here are some basics. Keep in mind I'm awful compared to donkey show, shouta, and others on GundamGAF.

Basically footsies/movement in Full Boost is about:

  • trying to stay in your effective range
  • managing your altitude (elevation = advantage)
  • while keeping your team role in mind (front/back)
  • and managing a finite resource (boost)

Range is simplest to talk about using red lock. You'll see your targeting reticle can have three states: green, red, and yellow. Yellow means the opponent is in the downed state and will not take more damage from hits until they rise, so isn't relevant here. Green and red are what we're concerned with. If you're in green lock, then your shoots will travel straight in the direction you fire. If your opponent stands completely still, they'll get hit, but generally in green lock all they have to do is walk normally and they'll avoid the shot. Meanwhile, red lock (which occurs when you get closer - the range varies by suit) gives your shots guidance. Guidance will cause the shot to bend toward the opponent and probably hit them unless they are doing something that has the cut guidance property. Two big moves that do that are boost dashes and side steps, both of which consume boost gauge.

Boost gauge is expended when you boost (jump), boost dash, or sidestep. You have a limited boost gauge that will recover fully if you (1) are on the ground, and (2) aren't doing anything that requires boost for a second or so. If you fully expend the gauge you'll be in "overheat" which is bad, because you can't react until you recover. One more important recovery mechanic comes into play, too: there's a recovery period when you land if your boost gauge is depleted. I think it begins when you have 40% or less boost gauge left when landing from flight but would need to look it up. The period for recovery on landing varies depending on how much of your boost gauge is left, and if you land when it's completely out, landing recover is very long.

So what's happening is that you're using your boost to move about the stage to stay in range, and also to go vertical so that you have an advantage over your opponent. All the while also using your boost trying to avoid your opponents' shots.

The game then becomes about watching your opponents' movement and trying to punish their landings - in other words, firing at them during that brief pause when they've landed and are recovering their boost. So you're doing this AND trying to make safe landings and not overheat. I tend to screw this up a lot. (._.)

Does that make sense? Brett's guide is probably better at getting at the core concepts.
 
S

Slamtastic

Member
Conceited said:
Seems like the players are interested in Edition Edition tournaments.
Click to expand...

People who play the game want strong characters so they actually have fun playing the game, people who don't play the game want the game to be "balanced" because they love to say "more balanced" as ammo in my game is better than yours arguments.
 
S

Skilotonn

xbot xbot xbot xbot xbot
To be fair, some, or at least half of them only said they wanted Ultra to be standard in the beginning, which makes sense. Ultra is the newest, and would never reach its potential if everyone just went back to whenever their character was strongest.

Even though I personally want edition select as standard, I can agree with that point of view.
 
C

Coda

Member
Kimosabae said:
Yeah, it's a point Kirblar would look to address. Me? I'm more concerned with the socio-cultural and intellectual aspects the competitiveness facilitates. While I have little desire to make a career out of playing FGs, the potential economic gains keep me invested in its growth. Not because I personally look to make gains, but through a desire to be part of something larger than myself with a potential for cultural impact. I believe in competitive games as a valid medium for expression and the spiritual/productive growth of a person. Self-actualization through Street Fighter is definitely a thing, and could be more of a thing. I believe that trumps the traditionally disposable nature of playing games without that mindset that you previously mentioned. I believe playing games with a self-actualizing focus as opposed to without one to be a moral precept, even.

Truth be told: were it not for the potential of competitive fighting games, it's very unlikely that I'd be interested in video games at all. I'd get involved in a more "productive" hobby, something less "disposable". But I believe the potential is definitely there for fighting games to be productive which is why they hold my interest (for now at least).
Click to expand...

I have to agree with this, I still play fighting games because even though sometimes I wish for a newer game/experience I know once I beat an adventure/action game it basically ends. It sucks that games are disposable, especially for developers who put so much work and effort into something that either just dies or never becomes popular (even if it's a critically acclaimed game). Fighting games have that lasting appeal of always being able to level up and get better. I think the online aspect helps fighting games stay competitive in terms of outside of the pro/tournament world. It always allows you to play against somebody that isn't just a CPU and that gives a game (if it's good) lasting appeal. I think it's why we all take the FGC seriously because we were given the opportunity to shine this gen. I'm happy that we were, I seriously don't care about almost any next gen game coming out. It's all stupid generic shooters and fantasy games now. I like the fighting game side because it's different and our games display a level of complexity and dexterity that I just don't see in other games.
 
I

irfaanator

Banned
Kimosabae said:
Yeah, it's a point Kirblar would look to address. Me? I'm more concerned with the socio-cultural and intellectual aspects the competitiveness facilitates. While I have little desire to make a career out of playing FGs, the potential economic gains keep me invested in its growth. Not because I personally look to make gains, but through a desire to be part of something larger than myself with a potential for cultural impact. I believe in competitive games as a valid medium for expression and the spiritual/productive growth of a person. Self-actualization through Street Fighter is definitely a thing, and could be more of a thing. I believe that trumps the traditionally disposable nature of playing games without that mindset that you previously mentioned. I believe playing games with a self-actualizing focus as opposed to without one to be a moral precept, even.

Truth be told: were it not for the potential of competitive fighting games, it's very unlikely that I'd be interested in video games at all. I'd get involved in a more "productive" hobby, something less "disposable". But I believe the potential is definitely there for fighting games to be productive which is why they hold my interest (for now at least).
Click to expand...

If I understand what you're saying, I also agree. I like to look at the competitive side of games to understand how well I can handle situations like that and what I can take from them. They also scratch my itch of understanding the nuances of games. As other people have said, competitive gaming (mainly street fighter) allow me to express a certain side of myself that I wouldn't be able to do in my normal setting
 
K

Kimosabae

Banned
kirblar said:
I don't think you can address it. You have to embrace it.
Click to expand...

Maybe. I don't think that follows necessarily though. Markets change and if FGs/competitive gaming is to be ultimately productive they have to have some relevance in some market.

Will we ever get a Chess from video games? Probably not. Video games are not only more disposable but they're less accessible, ephemeral, digital softwares. 100 years from now there probably won't even be a medium available to our species to play SF4.

Could we get another Super Turbo or Counter Strike? I think so. It would just require a different market that would support making a game with more long-term strategies in tow. A market that wouldn't put a company under if one franchise isn't constantly revised despite shrinking margins and markets on those revisions.

Really wish bigger publishers would support the indy/digital space with fighters.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Slamtastic said:
People who play the game want strong characters so they actually have fun playing the game, people who don't play the game want the game to be "balanced" because they love to say "more balanced" as ammo in my game is better than yours arguments.
Click to expand...
Or top players want their character to be the strongest so they have the best chance of winning tournaments.

I mean fuck, if I was Sanford I would WANT there to be an Edition Edition tournament.


Personally I am neutral on the issue. I want people to play around with it before deciding.
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Cosmo Clock 21 said:
I wouldn't say other pasttimes don't need to worry about it - look at the failure of professional leagues like the XFL and the struggles MLS has had trying to gain mindshare in the US. The NFL, FIFA, and PGA are just as much brands as Street Fighter and DOTA, but the difference is that their declines and rises in popularity and talent pool have histories on the order of decades rather than years.

Of course videogame-based competitive sports have unique problems that physical sports don't but there are also benefits to the digital medium. Unfortunately as far as fighting games go Capcom USA is the only entity that seems to have a hint of an idea to grow the FGC in terms of competitive branding, but at the current juncture if they succeed it'll only be through luck rather than know-how.
Click to expand...
All you need to play basketball, for example, are a ball and the nets. The game's required equipment isn't tied to increasingly aging and undesirable technology. It's not dependent on a "new version" coming out so that it can maintain a playerbase. The sport itself is not a commercial product whose success depends on a number of development and market factors.

To play SF4, you need last-gen consoles and peripherals, things that are going to be increasingly out of style and increasingly unobtainable as time goes by. In order for Street Fighter to remain a viable competitive thing, then SF5 has to come along at some point, and it has to be a solid and attractive enough game to maintain and draw enough new talent. These are extra challenges and risks that are unique to video games.

In any case, I'm just grateful for the FGC tournament scene's focus on sustainability when it comes to how they plan and run events, by and large.
 
O

Omega

Banned
i think at this point, its pointless to talk about Edition Select. It's useless, and 90% of the players will never even play it outside of maybe trying to do Akuma loops for fun against the computer.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Omega Rex said:
i think at this point, its pointless to talk about Edition Select. It's useless, and 90% of the players will never even play it outside of maybe trying to do Akuma loops for fun against the computer.
Click to expand...
Once the Arcade/No-online stuff came out it pretty much quieted things down.

Hoping they make KOF mode available offline though.
 
I

Infinite

Member
Beckx said:
Okay - so here are some basics. Keep in mind I'm awful compared to donkey show, shouta, and others on GundamGAF.

Basically footsies/movement in Full Boost is about:

  • trying to stay in your effective range
  • managing your altitude (elevation = advantage)
  • while keeping your team role in mind (front/back)
  • and managing a finite resource (boost)

Range is simplest to talk about using red lock. You'll see your targeting reticle can have three states: green, red, and yellow. Yellow means the opponent is in the downed state and will not take more damage from hits until they rise, so isn't relevant here. Green and red are what we're concerned with. If you're in green lock, then your shoots will travel straight in the direction you fire. If your opponent stands completely still, they'll get hit, but generally in green lock all they have to do is walk normally and they'll avoid the shot. Meanwhile, red lock (which occurs when you get closer - the range varies by suit) gives your shots guidance. Guidance will cause the shot to bend toward the opponent and probably hit them unless they are doing something that has the cut guidance property. Two big moves that do that are boost dashes and side steps, both of which consume boost gauge.

Boost gauge is expended when you boost (jump), boost dash, or sidestep. You have a limited boost gauge that will recover fully if you (1) are on the ground, and (2) aren't doing anything that requires boost for a second or so. If you fully expend the gauge you'll be in "overheat" which is bad, because you can't react until you recover. One more important recovery mechanic comes into play, too: there's a recovery period when you land if your boost gauge is depleted. I think it begins when you have 40% or less boost gauge left when landing from flight but would need to look it up. The period for recovery on landing varies depending on how much of your boost gauge is left, and if you land when it's completely out, landing recover is very long.

So what's happening is that you're using your boost to move about the stage to stay in range, and also to go vertical so that you have an advantage over your opponent. All the while also using your boost trying to avoid your opponents' shots.

The game then becomes about watching your opponents' movement and trying to punish their landings - in other words, firing at them during that brief pause when they've landed and are recovering their boost. So you're doing this AND trying to make safe landings and not overheat. I tend to screw this up a lot. (._.)

Does that make sense? Brett's guide is probably better at getting at the core concepts.
Click to expand...

I have to read this a couple of times and watch some matches but It's very concise. I think I get it. Thanks!
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Kadey said:
Well according to another thread, XB1 streaming is superior to PS4. Step it up Sorny.
Click to expand...
Twitch streaming looks godlike on X1.

Not only that, but the real killer app is snap. Enough to make it the preferable platform I imagine for some. Snap is a big deal.
 
S

soakrates

Member
Finished the long drive from Irvine a couple of hours ago. SCR was really neat and I had a lot of fun. Thanks for the support all.

FYI, I also got top 8 in SC2HD, so you can chalk up three NeoGAF top 8s if you want. :p

Playing casuals in SC2 against the Japanese player Pad Shen was one of the highlights of the weekend, to be honest. The guy is so on-point with punishes and plays extremely smart overall. Every time I was done playing a set with him, I felt like I was better at the game because of it. I hope SC2HD sticks around for a little while longer. I can't say I love the game, but I do love playing it. *shrug*
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
soakrates said:
Finished the long drive from Irvine a couple of hours ago. SCR was really neat and I had a lot of fun. Thanks for the support all.

FYI, I also got top 8 in SC2HD, so you can chalk up three NeoGAF top 8s if you want. :p

Playing casuals in SC2 against the Japanese player Pad Shen was one of the highlights of the weekend, to be honest. The guy is so on-point with punishes and plays extremely smart overall. Every time I was done playing a set with him, I felt like I was better at the game because of it. I hope SC2HD sticks around for a little while longer. I can't say I love the game, but I do love playing it. *shrug*
Click to expand...

gg on top 8's man, we were all cheering for ya
 
C

CPS2

Member
Edition select is going to be awesome for combo videos. Vanilla characters with character specific combos from newer versions e.g. Hugo. Probably hitbox tweaks between versions so some new shit will definitely be possible. Looking forward to it. Ah and the ultra interrupt with newer versions?
 
C

Cosmo Clock 21

Banned
Sixfortyfive said:
All you need to play basketball, for example, are a ball and the nets. The game's required equipment isn't tied to increasingly aging and undesirable technology. It's not dependent on a "new version" coming out so that it can maintain a playerbase. The sport itself is not a commercial product whose success depends on a number of development and market factors.

To play SF4, you need last-gen consoles and peripherals, things that are going to be increasingly out of style and increasingly unobtainable as time goes by. In order for Street Fighter to remain a viable competitive thing, then SF5 has to come along at some point, and it has to be a solid and attractive enough game to maintain and draw enough new talent. These are extra challenges and risks that are unique to video games.

In any case, I'm just grateful for the FGC tournament scene's focus on sustainability when it comes to how they plan and run events, by and large.
Click to expand...
To be fair the ST community is still going strong despite many of those hurdles already in place for that game. Thanks to emulation as well as preservation efforts the same game can still be played years after Capcom sunsetted development on SF Gen 2. It's not like the NFL makes money by coming out with a new football every year (although they do tweak the rules every so often) - they make money from advertising, ticket sales, and merchandising. But the NFL brand of football (which is an important distinction to make and is something the NFL would rather you don't realize) has a much deeper competitive space to mine compared to ST.
 
M

MikeBreezy92

Member
soakrates said:
I've mained Maxi in every SoulCalibur except 4, where he was utter garbage. It's fun using him in SC2HD because he has one of the cheapest lows in the game. :3
Click to expand...

Just curious, what is your opinion about SC4? I started being competitive with that game and I've never been able to go back and jut really think about the game in relation to all the other stuff I've played as I've grown as a player.
 
J

jbug617

Banned
Some preliminary numbers for pre-regs at Final Round (Facebook post)

AE 2012- 256+
Marvel- 200+
TTT2- 160
BBCP- 100+
Injustice- 100+

They are also taking entrants at the door Thursday (5pm-9pm) and Friday (8am-12pm)
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
jbug617 said:
Some preliminary numbers for pre-regs at Final Round (Facebook post)

AE 2012- 256+
Marvel- 200+
TTT2- 160
BBCP- 100+
Injustice- 100+

They are also taking entrants at the door Thursday (5pm-9pm) and Friday (8am-12pm)
Click to expand...

*RUSTLING INTENSIFIES*
 
K

kirblar

Member
My weekend major's current pre-reg count: 2800.

Welp.

(Not intended as a slight against Final Round, which is an awesome event.)
 
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