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[Topher]

I'd say 35K peak is pretty good for a smaller-budget game. GoW isn't a good example because it was a port and even 73K was a good number.

But we should look at other relatively low-performer new day-1 PC games, like Suicide Squad (13K), Indiana Jones (12K), Hellblade 2 (6K), Forspoken (13K) to gauge this. Frostpunk performed better than all those games and would have definitely cost less.

If anything, the devs need to create efficiencies and minimize dev costs / scope, to make their projects more successful. But, of course, they would rather draw an irrational conclusion, shift directions completely, make a game no one wants, and then lay off their teams.

There are plenty of games out there that have done extremely well that are dependent on the narrative. Hogwart's Legacy, Metaphor, Ghost of Tsushima, Cyberpunk 2077, etc. The assumption many make is that "narrative driven" means gameplay sucks and so the game won't sell. Just not necessarily true. For those games, the narrative and the gameplay are both crucial for the game's success.

 

[diffusionx]

I'd say 35K peak is pretty good for a smaller-budget game. GoW isn't a good example because it was a port and even 73K was a good number.

But we should look at other relatively low-performer new day-1 PC games, like Suicide Squad (13K), Indiana Jones (12K), Hellblade 2 (6K), Forspoken (13K) to gauge this. Frostpunk performed better than all those games and would have definitely cost less.

If anything, the devs need to create efficiencies and minimize dev costs / scope, to make their projects more successful. But, of course, they would rather draw an irrational conclusion, shift directions completely, make a game no one wants, and then lay off their teams.

Frostpunk 2 was the sequel to a massive hit that sold a lot of copies for a very long time. The consensus is also that the game isn't that good and not as good as the original so it's unlikely to have that long life. It's a flop.

 

[diffusionx]

There are plenty of games out there that have done extremely well that are dependent on the narrative. Hogwart's Legacy, Metaphor, Ghost of Tsushima, Cyberpunk 2077, etc. The assumption many make is that "narrative driven" means gameplay sucks and so the game won't sell. Just not necessarily true. For those games, the narrative and the gameplay are both crucial for the game's success.

Their statement needs to be placed in the context that they are a studio that just canceled a game and laid off people. It's a CYA thing. It gets people talking about the death of story driven games (which is ludicrous) instead of their own failings as a studio. They released a game that isn't that good and isn't bringing in the sort of revenue they thought it would.

 

[EN250]

The assumption many make is that "narrative driven" means gameplay sucks and so the game won't sell. Just not necessarily true. For those games, the narrative and the gameplay are both crucial for the game's success.

Yup, if gameplay was the only important thing for success people wouldn't keep buying new games because gameplay can be refined or improved, but there is nothing unique and groundbreaking gameplay wise coming up every month, look at TW3, some say it has average gameply but top tier world and story that you want to keep going, so idk where this "narrative = bad" it's coming from

Not every game is a walking sim or telltale game disguised as something else

 

[Heisenberg007]

Frostpunk 2 was the sequel to a massive hit that sold a lot of copies for a very long time. The consensus is also that the game isn't that good and not as good as the original so it's unlikely to have that long life. It's a flop.

For sure, FP 1 was great. FP2 isn't that good.

It most likely didn't meet their sales expectations, but I doubt the game actually "flopped" in terms of like ROI.

 

[Yoda]

Frostpunk 2 didn't live up to it's predecessor. Most likely that was reflected in the sales (I know I opted out of buying it once I saw the reviews). I'd guess this layoff was more related to that than "narrative driven games don't sell".

Anything where the story is selling point gets another round of inspection from me. Too many times I'm enjoying a game and I can see the writers trying to nudge <current day issue X> into the story. Ruins the experience for me so I avoid that type of shit like the plague.

 

[EN250]

Is this the new conspiracy why Concord failed?

You don't even need to choose the most DEI designed by committee game to prove he's wrong

Xdefiant, the most dudebro resembling shooter in the market besides papa COD, is shutting down exactly because the GAAS market can only sustain so much and the design of GAAS games make players unable to let go, move on and try other stuff because of the time invested in their preferred game (singular, just a single game sucking up all their time)

 

[Plague Doctor]

Yeah this quote is pretty wrong in light of what sold this year and the fact the biggest bombs included multiplayer, live service games.

I am thinking they are reading the room and then looked at what they had in development, figured it was too difficult or costly to change course and here we are.

Now what they had in development is the question.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Yeah this quote is pretty wrong in light of what sold this year and the fact the biggest bombs included multiplayer, live service games.

I am thinking they are reading the room and then looked at what they had in development, figured it was too difficult or costly to change course and here we are.

Now what they had in development is the question.

I don't think companies read the market like this (cherry picking).

They just look at player behavior. The titles that are attracting more and more of an audience and measure that trend against what they're making. Bad games flop everywhere.

 

[Calverz]

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Yeah this quote is pretty wrong in light of what sold this year and the fact the biggest bombs included multiplayer, live service games.

I am thinking they are reading the room and then looked at what they had in development, figured it was too difficult or costly to change course and here we are.

Now what they had in development is the question.

They were making a game for the Modern Audience and now they realize this audience is a lie the entertainment industry told itself.

I’d be shocked if that wasn’t it. I bet if they’d released a trailer it’d have a 10:1 dislike ratio on YouTube and we’d all be making fun of it right now (except for EDMIX)

 

[StreetsofBeige]

video games aren't a narrative first medium.

the story of a game is the frame, the game design, level design and moment to moment interactions are the painting.

any game that focuses on the story first is like a museum that cares more about how the frame of a painting is presented than the painting itself. in other words: it's shite innit?

this is also why a 10/10 game can have close to no narrative elements but genius gameplay, while the other way around it can never be a 10/10 game.
and the moment I hear a developer say that their game is a "narrative driven" one, I instantly assume they suck at game design and can only do shitty wannabe movies or walking sims

Story heavy games are typically shallow with no replayability too. That's why it's a struggle for these types of games to have huge sales and long legs with gamers playing it in top played lists. Once the first month passes, it drops like a rock. But then an old game like Minecraft can keep humming. A game made so long ago, I googled it and it first came out before Sony and MS even jumped on the motion fad with Move and Kinect. Those gadgets came out a year later.

The most played games which gamers play and sink money into are great games with lots of good gameplay (SP or MP), lots of content, and they get their moneys worth. The amount of story and plot people care about in these top played games is almost zero.

When I hear story driven narrative game, I immediately think a modern day version of a CD-rom game from 30 years ago which was 90% FMV pizzaz, limited gameplay, and zero replayability. And half the cut scenes cant be skipped either. Some people like these kinds of games. Most dont and see right through it.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

You don't even need to choose the most DEI designed by committee game to prove he's wrong

Xdefiant, the most dudebro resembling shooter in the market besides papa COD, is shutting down exactly because the GAAS market can only sustain so much and the design of GAAS games make players unable to let go, move on and try other stuff because of the time invested in their preferred game (singular, just a single game sucking up all their time)

Back in the day everyone wanted to make an MMO because of Warcraft.

Trend chasers instead of trend setters.

 

[kevboard]

Story heavy games are typically shallow with no replayability too. That's why it's a struggle for these types of games to have huge sales and long legs with gamers playing it in top played lists. Once the first month passes, it drops like a rock. But then an old game like Minecraft can keep humming. A game made so long ago, I googled it and it first came out before Sony and MS even jumped on the motion fad with Move and Kinect. Those gadgets came out a year later.

The most played games which gamers play and sink money into are great games with lots of good gameplay (SP or MP), lots of content, and they get their moneys worth. The amount of story and plot people care about in these top played games is almost zero.

When I hear story driven narrative game, I immediately think a modern day version of a CD-rom game from 30 years ago which was 90% FMV pizzaz, limited gameplay, and zero replayability. And half the cut scenes cant be skipped either. Some people like these kinds of games. Most dont and see right through it.

yup.
unskippable cutscenes, unskippable slow walking, unskippable "stand still and move camera"... the more of these a game has the more it destroys replayability.

sadly even non "cinematic" games can suffer from this. it's the biggest flaw with Titanfall 2 for example, that you can not skip cutscenes. although, on PC I think you can mod it so you can skip them.


meanwhile, many people often throw Kojima's games into that conversation, but Kojima's games let you skip basically anything, and are highly replayabe. there were days back in the early 2000s where I played through MGS1 or MGS2 multiple times a day (if you are good you can rush through the game real fast)... because the moment you skip all cutscenes in MGS2, what is left is just a fun stealth game with difficulty settings that meaningfully change the gameplay through different rules and enemy placements, which is highly replayable...
this is without even taking the VR Missions into account, which are of course a ridiculously replayable part of MGS2 Substance.