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[Buggy Loop]

KCD 1 looked good on PC and this seems to be a step above. Haven't played it yet but clearly a step up for the same engine. They cooked.

Gives me hope that Crytek's next iteration of the engine will be amazing for Crysis 4. I hope they go balls to the walls "can it run" but at the same time feel optimized, unlike UE5.

 

[Gonzito]

I just wished that cry engine had better shadows in general, they flicker quite a bit on characters faces, even on experimental settings. The first game had the same issue

Its the only thing I dislike so far about the graphics presentation in KCD2

 

[Myuni]

Dammit. I've been roaming around the countryside for about 7h now, and can't take it anymore.
Trees and bushes just look like flat, undefined shit:

I need convincing shrubbery to hide and lurk in to be immersed in a game like that!
It certainly doesn't help that you can get so close to this mess, a 3rd person view would have been a better choice in this regard.
Guess I've been expecting far too much for this gen.

Let's hope KCD3 will come close to this UE5 vegetation on PS6 some day:

 

[light2x]

Game looks good but character models look like they're from 10 years ago

 

[SlimySnake]

Dammit. I've been roaming around the countryside for about 7h now, and can't take it anymore.
Trees and bushes just look like flat, undefined shit:

I need convincing shrubbery to hide and lurk in to be immersed in a game like that!
It certainly doesn't help that you can get so close to this mess, a 3rd person view would have been a better choice in this regard.
Guess I've been expecting far too much for this gen.

Let's hope KCD3 will come close to this UE5 vegetation on PS6 some day:

It will be interesting to see where AC shadows lands. it has a very similar cross gen-ish lighting system, but the foliage does look better.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I'm not sure what the consensus is amongst folks here on Star Wars Jedi Survivor, it's on discount on the PlaystationStore so I thought I'd give it a shot even though I haven't played a Star Wars game since The Phantom Menace on PS1.

I'm currently playing it on the PS5 Pro, with the latest patch - I know this game has received several visual tweaks since launch but I don't know anything other than that. I was actually taken back by the visual quality of this game, it's pretty stunning and the lightings looks gorgeous, especially the way it interacts with rocks and foliage, some of the draw distance is also breathtaking. I'm pleasantly surprised by this, one of the best looking games I have played so far on the PS5 Pro.

 

[DanielG165]

It will be interesting to see where AC shadows lands. it has a very similar cross gen-ish lighting system, but the foliage does look better.

I think it’ll be pretty comparable with KDC2, honestly. Though, Shadows loses A TON of its fidelity in YouTube videos and gifs, so I’m really interested in seeing how it truly looks on my PC in-person. I’m thinking the shadows and lighting of AC will both be superior to KDV.

 

[dgrdsv]

This is disappointing. RTX mega geometry does fucking nothing.



Just a 300 mb difference in vram consumption. 11.1 gb to 10.8. Maybe 10% improvement in CPU performance though no one is playing at those low resolutions. And only 5-10% improvement on the gpu side. But only on the rtx 20 and 30 series cards. No improvement on 40 or 50 series cards.

It will be interesting to see how Nanite gets enhanced from this. Avowed is out soon. Then Expedition 33, mgs3 and maybe marvel's 1943 if it ever releases. Somehow i doubt that the difference in performance will be major.

This isn't a good test case for RTXMG.
Consider this: you take the original Quake and you port it to run in the exact same way but on Vulkan. You still get some 1000 fps and nothing's changed. Does that make Vulkan disappointing?
RTXMG solves the problem of ray tracing against essentially unlimited geometric complexity. For that to show itself you need a game with such geometry and RT - and there are none as no one would make one right now as it wouldn't run on current gen APIs+HW.
Patching RTXMG into older games wouldn't be of much help because these games are specifically crafted and optimized for the limitations of DXR 1.1. The fact that there are some improvements is already good enough for them.

 

[Trilobit]

I'm not sure what the consensus is amongst folks here on Star Wars Jedi Survivor, it's on discount on the PlaystationStore so I thought I'd give it a shot even though I haven't played a Star Wars game since The Phantom Menace on PS1.

I'm currently playing it on the PS5 Pro, with the latest patch - I know this game has received several visual tweaks since launch but I don't know anything other than that. I was actually taken back by the visual quality of this game, it's pretty stunning and the lightings looks gorgeous, especially the way it interacts with rocks and foliage, some of the draw distance is also breathtaking. I'm pleasantly surprised by this, one of the best looking games I have played so far on the PS5 Pro.

I love the level of detail in facial animations in-game. I'm really excited to see what they're able to do in the third game.

 

[SlimySnake]

This isn't a good test case for RTXMG.
Consider this: you take the original Quake and you port it to run in the exact same way but on Vulkan. You still get some 1000 fps and nothing's changed. Does that make Vulkan disappointing?
RTXMG solves the problem of ray tracing against essentially unlimited geometric complexity. For that to show itself you need a game with such geometry and RT - and there are none as no one would make one right now as it wouldn't run on current gen APIs+HW.
Patching RTXMG into older games wouldn't be of much help because these games are specifically crafted and optimized for the limitations of DXR 1.1. The fact that there are some improvements is already good enough for them.

Yh its use case is mostly going to be the future but most devs still don’t utilize mesh shaders despite them being supported on 2016 gpus so we shall see just how widely adopted this is.

 

[dgrdsv]

Yh its use case is mostly going to be the future but most devs still don’t utilize mesh shaders despite them being supported on 2016 gpus so we shall see just how widely adopted this is.

Dunno about "most devs". If we consider that the majority of games are using UE5 then this one does utilize mesh shaders to a degree I believe.
But yes for RTXMG to be widely used it must become a part of DXR and must be supported in some form on console h/w.
It's the same for all new rendering tech really. There are exceptions (DLSS) but they are rare.

 

[SlimySnake]

I'm not sure what the consensus is amongst folks here on Star Wars Jedi Survivor, it's on discount on the PlaystationStore so I thought I'd give it a shot even though I haven't played a Star Wars game since The Phantom Menace on PS1.

I'm currently playing it on the PS5 Pro, with the latest patch - I know this game has received several visual tweaks since launch but I don't know anything other than that. I was actually taken back by the visual quality of this game, it's pretty stunning and the lightings looks gorgeous, especially the way it interacts with rocks and foliage, some of the draw distance is also breathtaking. I'm pleasantly surprised by this, one of the best looking games I have played so far on the PS5 Pro.

Dude I’ve been singing this game’s praises for years. You aint seen nothing yet. The indoor bases look so much more detailed with high quality assets that you don’t get in the open world because ue4 has issues with open world streaming. But they used ray traced lighting to get around some of those issues so the indirectly lit areas don’t look like complete shit like they do in ff7.

I do hope they switch to ue5 Next time around. They can cram in more detail and realistic lighting with better performance.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Seems too good to be true. Wait for actual previews

 

[Buggy Loop]

Dammit. I've been roaming around the countryside for about 7h now, and can't take it anymore.
Trees and bushes just look like flat, undefined shit:

I need convincing shrubbery to hide and lurk in to be immersed in a game like that!
It certainly doesn't help that you can get so close to this mess, a 3rd person view would have been a better choice in this regard.
Guess I've been expecting far too much for this gen.

Let's hope KCD3 will come close to this UE5 vegetation on PS6 some day:

Yup this is like KCD 1

Tech really hasn't changed for them

Its "optimized" as in the tech will run on a 1060 if not even under. There's nothing new in the engine compared to 2018's KCD 1 on Crytek, except they made it run better with CPU parallelism which is crytek engine's biggest bottleneck always.

But seriously I can't imagine the day we see a full fledged open world UE5 game with 3D vegetation... there's a load of optimization to happen before then. Demos I don't care. I want to see games.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yup this is like KCD 1

Tech really hasn't changed for them

Its "optimized" as in the tech will run on a 1060 if not even under. There's nothing new in the engine compared to 2018's KCD 1 on Crytek, except they made it run better with CPU parallelism which is crytek engine's biggest bottleneck always.

But seriously I can't imagine the day we see a full fledged open world UE5 game with 3D vegetation... there's a load of optimization to happen before then. Demos I don't care. I want to see games.

Avowed has some foliage.

Or you know there is always avatar. The king of the jungle.

 

[Rayjin]

I love this game. Some of the indoor stadiums look so realistic.

holy damn, the animations look crazy detailed

 

[GymWolf]

Avowed looks good in stills. Good lighting and a lot of geometry.

I was thinking the same when i saw the latest pics.

Rocks still look pretty meh in the close ups, if that is nanite, it's a shitty use of it.

 

[GymWolf]

Look super fake tbh.

 

[SlimySnake]

Look super fake tbh.

Here is another fake game.



I think UE5 is letting devs do some amazing things. Black Myth came out. SH2 came out and it was made by fucking Bloober.

I wouldnt be surprised if this a real game and chinese and south korean devs are simply utilizing UE5 better than these modern developers stuck on archaic engines.

Meanwhile, Japanese devs taking a stab at their own streaming tech in an engine that already has one.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Here is another fake game.

Project TH has to be one of the fakest looking trailers ive ever seen.

But if you also mean SPINE then i dont think its fake at all, its from long going studio that has made some really popular mobile games. Animations look by far the best in business, but i dont doubt it one bit since their previous stuff also has animations that would put 99% of AAA studios to shame and they did that for mobile hardware.

 

[GymWolf]

Here is another fake game.



I think UE5 is letting devs do some amazing things. Black Myth came out. SH2 came out and it was made by fucking Bloober.

I wouldnt be surprised if this a real game and chinese and south korean devs are simply utilizing UE5 better than these modern developers stuck on archaic engines.

Meanwhile, Japanese devs taking a stab at their own streaming tech in an engine that already has one.

I was not talking about the graphic being too good to be real, the whole trailer just feel fake, it's hard to pinpoint why, maybe the animations...

 

[bender]

It will be interesting to see where AC shadows lands. it has a very similar cross gen-ish lighting system, but the foliage does look better.

That bamboo breaking animation looks so bad.

 

[Lethal01]

I was not talking about the graphic being too good to be real, the whole trailer just feel fake, it's hard to pinpoint why, maybe the animations...

It got all the markings of, "We just animated some stuff and then rendered it in unreal, we have not actually deceloped anything but a concept and some graphics"
totally unrelated to whether its visually impressive, it looks fine, generic.

 

[Piggoro]

Avowed looks good in stills. Good lighting and a lot of geometry.

The screenshots they post look amazing! But every time I see a gameplay video - it's night and day difference. That's why I call bullshots.

 

[SlimySnake]

Holy fucking shit. This black Hawk down ue5 game looks insane. Coming out in 10 days too.

The black hawk crash looks so similar to the movie. We are almost there folks.

 

[March Climber]

I want project TH to be real because I want another Splinter Cell Conviction sequel.

 

[SlimySnake]

Project TH has to be one of the fakest looking trailers ive ever seen.

But if you also mean SPINE then i dont think its fake at all, its from long going studio that has made some really popular mobile games. Animations look by far the best in business, but i dont doubt it one bit since their previous stuff also has animations that would put 99% of AAA studios to shame and they did that for mobile hardware.

I think neither is fake. Project th YouTube channel has a lot of videos showing gameplay. Same goes for Spine. These asian studios don’t hide their games like western studios are forced to do. There are nearly 20 mins of footage of project th on YouTube. Spine has a lot of shorts and clips on Twitter.

Let’s wait and see but after black myth embarrassed western studios im beginning to believe in these fake South Korean and Chinese studios. Maybe they are not all fake.

 

[Gonzito]

Holy fucking shit. This black Hawk down ue5 game looks insane. Coming out in 10 days too.

The black hawk crash looks so similar to the movie. We are almost there folks.

The campaign comes out in 10 days?

 

[SlimySnake]

The campaign comes out in 10 days?

Yes

 

[analog_future]

I've been playing through some older games as I continue to wait for my 5090, and damn, Control still looks absolutely stunning.

Can't believe this is a 6 year old game:

 

[Radical_3d]

I've been playing through some older games as I continue to wait for my 5090, and damn, Control still looks absolutely stunning.

Can't believe this is a 6 year old game:

In six years we went from Super Nintendo graphics to second generation of polygons with Dreamcast. Nowadays graphic quality is more a matter of talent than the hardware of the time.

 

[SlimySnake]

In six years we went from Super Nintendo graphics to second generation of polygons with Dreamcast.

This was the first game with full ray tracing though. So in a way it was designed for the future. IIRC, not only did they have RT reflections and shadows, but also an early form of RTXDI, and even debris shadows.

On consoles, without RT, it ran at around 15 fps during combat. On my $700 RTX 2080, the second most powerful GPU at the time, it ran at 864p internally using DLSS 1.0 if i wanted to hit 60 fps.

Nowadays graphic quality is more a matter of talent than the hardware of the time.

Is it? Look at all these AAA studios in hollywood and how they are being outshined by a bunch of korean and chinese devs using UE5. Just look at CoD and Battlefield and compare it to the Black Hawk Down footage. Literally a generational difference. CoD costs $700 million.

 

[SlimySnake]

So this is blowing up on reddit. Kingdom Come 2 developer's comments on why he chose Cry Engine over UE5 from last year. he mentions how he knows developers from CD Project working on Witcher 4 and how they still dont have the open world ready.

Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 developer claims Witcher 4 development is slow, blasts open-world games on Unreal Engine 5

Co-founder of Warhorse Studios, Daniel Vávra, says using Unreal Engine for open-world games is a bad idea.

www.windowscentral.com

He continued, "I talked with guys who are making The Witcher or from studios that are just trying to make some open-world games on Unreal because there aren't really any open-world games on Unreal. Assassin's Creed, everything like that, is on their own engine."

"CD Projekt just switched to Unreal. Even though, in my opinion, they had a good proprietary engine. I talked to someone whose name I obviously can't say, and I said to him, 'So how about Unreal?' 'Great, we already have pieces done, like some landscapes.' And I said, well, what about the open world? 'Not yet.' When did they announce it? A year or two ago, and it still doesn't work?"

He does make a good point. Why does it take so long to make a game? 4 years of dev time, hundreds of developers and they had nothing but a pre-rendered trailer to show at VGA.

Then again, the plants and leaves look like 2d trash in kingdom come so he probably shouldve chose a different engine himself.

 

[Schmendrick]

He does make a good point. Why does it take so long to make a game? 4 years of dev time, hundreds of developers and they had nothing but a pre-rendered trailer to show at VGA.

I´m a software architect and project manager who regularly does business projects with the likes of big car manufacturers etc.
I´d kill for some insight here. I simply don`t get where all the manhours go and I´m dying of professional curiosity.
What happened in the last years that made development time and budgets explode like this? I always thought it was just more and more complex asset creation and scope, but with recent releases that conviction is seriously flattening as I don`t see that reflected in the end products.

 

[SlimySnake]

What are we expecting from the Sony state of play tomorrow?

I am personally hoping for a big upgrade to Death Stranding 2. I like the lighting, i like the cutscenes, but I want to see better rocks and geometry.
For Ghosts, I am not expecting much. It looks like Kingdom Come 2+ AC Shadows which i suppose is good enough.
There is a UE5 game by People Can Fly (Bulletstorm, Gears Judgement) thats been in development over at Sony for a while. It might be getting revealed there.
RE9 might be there, and man the RE Engine better deliver this time.

 

[GymWolf]

What are we expecting from the Sony state of play tomorrow?

I am personally hoping for a big upgrade to Death Stranding 2. I like the lighting, i like the cutscenes, but I want to see better rocks and geometry.
For Ghosts, I am not expecting much. It looks like Kingdom Come 2+ AC Shadows which i suppose is good enough.
There is a UE5 game by People Can Fly (Bulletstorm, Gears Judgement) thats been in development over at Sony for a while. It might be getting revealed there.
RE9 might be there, and man the RE Engine better deliver this time.

Better keep expectations super low.

It's really the saddest timeline when i can't even fake enthusiasm for a sony event...

 

[SlimySnake]

I´m a software architect and project manager who regularly does business projects with the likes of big car manufacturers etc.
I´d kill for some insight here. I simply don`t get where all the manhours go and I´m dying of professional curiosity.
What happened in the last years that made development time and budgets explode like this? I always thought it was just more and more complex asset creation and scope, but with recent releases that conviction is seriously flattening as I don`t see that reflected in the end products.

Ha, Im also a Software Architect and yeah, there is no way you can go 4 years without showing your work. There are milestones and contracts that have to be met or you get straight up sued. There are companies that are hired to evaluate whether things were delivered according to spec, and if not, they recommend a lawsuit.

I have no idea how game devs can go 4 years without showing anything or something like the Intergallatic teaser which is basically one room in a tiny spacecraft.

Schrier wrote an article on bloomberg about this recently. he said it's not graphics, but simply poor management from the top. Lots of game cancellations and stuff made by devs that simply thrown away by directors who are not able to relay their vision to artists and designers. Or simply change their mind. Ken Levine would routinely throw away 6 months of work on Bioshock Infinite. The Ready At Dawn Co-Founder also hinted at the Publisher meddling in his latest interview where he said how Sony would withhold payments if he simply delivered a milestone footage with incomplete graphics. They demanded launch visuals for every single milestone which left them no time to work on the gameplay systems.

 

[GymWolf]

Ha, Im also a Software Architect and yeah, there is no way you can go 4 years without showing your work. There are milestones and contracts that have to be met or you get straight up sued. There are companies that are hired to evaluate whether things were delivered according to spec, and if not, they recommend a lawsuit.

I have no idea how game devs can go 4 years without showing anything or something like the Intergallatic teaser which is basically one room in a tiny spacecraft.

Schrier wrote an article on bloomberg about this recently. he said it's not graphics, but simply poor management from the top. Lots of game cancellations and stuff made by devs that simply thrown away by directors who are not able to relay their vision to artists and designers. Or simply change their mind. Ken Levine would routinely throw away 6 months of work on Bioshock Infinite. The Ready At Dawn Co-Founder also hinted at the Publisher meddling in his latest interview where he said how Sony would withhold payments if he simply delivered a milestone footage with incomplete graphics. They demanded launch visuals for every single milestone which left them no time to work on the gameplay systems.

Maybe they have a lot of gameplay ready but it is too rough to show?

We know that the polish part comes last and devs in the past years refuse to make vertical slices to show their games because apparently it's super time consuming or some shit

Maybe they already have the map ready, the combat ready etc. But everything lacks polish and you can't show a game that is still in alpha state if you wanna make a good impression.

 

[SlimySnake]

Maybe they have a lot of gameplay ready but it is too rough to show?

We know that the polish part comes last and devs in the past years refuse to make vertical slices to show their games because apparently it's super time consuming or some shit

Maybe they already have the map ready, the combat ready etc. But everything lacks polish and you can't show a game that is still in alpha state if you wanna make a good impression.

that could be it, but 4 years and you arent even ready to show gameplay?

These are studios that used to release games in 2-3 years max. Now i get that games are bigger and more complex but surely some gameplay footage can be cooked up in 4 years.

 

[GymWolf]

The hate for ue5 on gaf is never gonna be not funny

 

[GymWolf]

that could be it, but 4 years and you arent even ready to show gameplay?

These are studios that used to release games in 2-3 years max. Now i get that games are bigger and more complex but surely some gameplay footage can be cooked up in 4 years.

Like i said, maybe the gameplay they have is in rough state, to make a vertical slice you basically have to polish a 10-20 min section like it is the final game.

They probably have a lot to show but nothing is in optimal state.

 

[Radical_3d]

Is it? Look at all these AAA studios in hollywood and how they are being outshined by a bunch of korean and chinese devs using UE5. Just look at CoD and Battlefield and compare it to the Black Hawk Down footage. Literally a generational difference. CoD costs $700 million.

I don’t want to break it for you, mate, but I’m pretty sure nobody on GAF is as happy with UE5 as you are.

 

[GymWolf]

I don’t want to break it for you, mate, but I’m pretty sure nobody on GAF is as happy with UE5 as you are.

I don't wanna break it for you bubula, but this is the graphical fidelity topic, most people in here love ue5 because it's the engine with...well the highest graphical fidelity

 

[Radical_3d]

I don't wanna break it for you bubula, but this is the graphical fidelity topic, most people in here love ue5 because it's the engine with...well the highest graphical fidelity

it does as long as you have the machine for it. I appreciate more what you can do with an optimise engine. Crisis had also the most powerful engine of its time but nobody had the card to move it. Requiring a 4090 to run properly is not what I consider and engineering achievement.

 

[Schmendrick]

it does as long as you have the machine for it. I appreciate more what you can do with an optimise engine. Crisis had also the most powerful engine of its time but nobody had the card to move it. Requiring a 4090 to run properly is not what I consider and engineering achievement.

Between forward looking high end hardware targeting tech and doing nearly nothing but upping the resolution and details sliders a bit as most other engines have been doing this gen i'll gladly pick the first one....

The hate for ue5 on gaf is never gonna be not funny

If I was stuck with a low powered budget pc, be it one in a little plastic box with a logo or otherwise I'd probably not like it very much either. It delivers but it also demands.

 

[GymWolf]

it does as long as you have the machine for it. I appreciate more what you can do with an optimise engine. Crisis had also the most powerful engine of its time but nobody had the card to move it. Requiring a 4090 to run properly is not what I consider and engineering achievement.

I see it in another way, it is the engine that produce the best graphic so it is kinda normal that is heavier than other engines.

Other engines produce worse graphic so they are lighter.


I have the machine for it so why should i say bad things about the engine? Because people with inferior hardwares can't run the engine as good as me? Sorry, i'm not THAT empathic

 

[GymWolf]

Between forward looking high end hardware targeting tech and doing nearly nothing but upping the resolution and details sliders a bit as most other engines have been doing this gen i'll gladly pick the first one....


If I was stuck with a low powered budget pc, be it one in a little plastic box with a logo or otherwise I'd probably not like it very much either. It delivers but it also demands.

So a case of fox with the grape.

 

[Kaiserstark]

There is a UE5 game by People Can Fly (Bulletstorm, Gears Judgement) thats been in development over at Sony for a while. It might be getting revealed there.
RE9 might be there, and man the RE Engine better deliver this time.

If you're talking about the SciFi RPG made on UE5 for Sony that was leaked in 2023, it's not People Can Fly who are making it and i don't think they are working with Sony on anything.

Right now they are helping on the next Gears and working on a game for Square Enix.

 

[SlimySnake]

I don’t want to break it for you, mate, but I’m pretty sure nobody on GAF is as happy with UE5 as you are.

I dont really care what gaf thinks. They just gave their GOTY to astrobot so I dont really have much in common with them. They also cry on a weekly basis about how graphics have stagnated but then dismiss the one engine that is actually trying to push the visuals on next gen consoles. yes, it has issues with stuttering but good developers are able to mitigate them. They have also improved performance by 50-80% but devs continue to release games on older builds of the engine going back 3 years now. Maybe Epic needs to send their engineers to these studios to help port game engines to the latest build kinda like how Nvidia sends their guys to help imlpement path tracing in the biggest titles. But Epic is too busy adding skins to Fortnite instead.

Regardless of the performance issues, I simply disagree with the notion that you need talent and manpower to get next gen visuals. if that was the case, bloober, game science and an 80 person hellblade team would not have made three of the best looking games of the gen last year while much bigger and more experienced/talented studios delivered garbage.

And if you think Black hawk Down looks the same as $700 million CoD games then god bless your soul.