I think it's predominantly a hero shooter in the line of TF2. There are modes that kinda fit into a gray area though.
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"Hero shooter"/ FPS MOBAs/MOBA shooters. Round-up and let's try and clear this up.
- Thread starter ashecitism
- Start date
Abinash117
Member
What's the criteria for a hero shooter?
I'd say it's a multiplayer class based first or third person shooter.
ashecitism
Member
I mean I tried to explain in the OP. The idea is to take a class-based shooter and expand its cast, name the characters, have classes have more characters etc. TF2 on roids I guess. That's why people are grouping these games together, only some also think since they have "heroes" they're also MOBAs.
Conkerkid11
Member
Nice explanation OP, hopefully it will clear up some confusion. Should mention Destiny in there somewhere, as I noticed Black Ops 3 was being identified as a hero shooter by a lot of people, and Destiny has the same exact ultimate-style system Black Ops 3 has.
Something like Battlefield's more of a hero shooter than either of those two games, where the individual classes each have actual unique weapons and whatnot to fill their loadouts, rather than a single unique ability that's only off cooldown once every like two minutes, and serves as more of a kill-streak bonus than anything.
Is this post supposed to be ironic?
Something like Battlefield's more of a hero shooter than either of those two games, where the individual classes each have actual unique weapons and whatnot to fill their loadouts, rather than a single unique ability that's only off cooldown once every like two minutes, and serves as more of a kill-streak bonus than anything.
Ugghhh
Is this post supposed to be ironic?
Tertullian
Member
I hate the term "hero shooter." It sounds so marketing-y. I hope the people pushing the term are getting a quarter from Blizzard or Gearbox every time they try to force it into common parlance. I'm just gonna call them class-based shooters or TF2-alikes.
I hate it even more when people say Paragon and Smite have a "3rd person camera" as though that distinguishes them from every other MOBA. Those people don't seem to know what "3rd person" means. Every MOBA is 3rd person. What Smite and Paragon have is an over-the-shoulder camera angle.
I hate it even more when people say Paragon and Smite have a "3rd person camera" as though that distinguishes them from every other MOBA. Those people don't seem to know what "3rd person" means. Every MOBA is 3rd person. What Smite and Paragon have is an over-the-shoulder camera angle.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
I'd say Evolve certainly fits the criteria for this, even if the objectives are vastly different from the rest. Each character feels distinctly different, even those in the same class.
ashecitism
Member
Not even sure Gearbox want to put BB in the same category as Overwatch. Not that it matters anymore. A lot of people do and they're launching close to each other.
Technically true, but I think people usually consider over-the-shoulder as third person ( probably based on TPS) and isometric, bird view as its own thing.
It's still its own thing, but yeah, I guess, if we look at the cast. I mean people are grouping these together based on that. Haven't played it. Didn't it also have some sort of jungling?
Turin Turambar
Member
Hey that's me in the OP!
I was surprised with Paragon. Given the Epic pedigree, I expected a pure shooter but with the hero philosophy, like Overwatch. But they came and said: nope, this is a MOBA.
In fact, it will be one of the few real 3rd person action game full MOBA, that I know of. I'm not counting Smite because it doesn't have "free aim" (the Y axis is locked) nor "free movement" (you are normally glued to the ground, leaps are specific abilities, you are invulnerable while doing them).
Paladins is very weak right now, it gives me the feeling it should have be presented and released the closed beta six months later than it did. Maybe they felt pressured by the competition. And I both liked Tribes and Smite, so it isn't like I don't like the company. The mode is super simple and right now the game consist in a lot of fire spam into a single conquest point and then run like crazy to the enemy base. And graphically is below previous titles, which a kind of ugly art style
.
Obviously it will improve in the coming months, but I expected something better.
Smite is pretty good, I played 700 hours.
Battleborn imo isn't as bad as some people say. The problem at the core is that is a FPS (or FP action game, as some characters are melee) but the movement and gunplay feel mediocre in comparison with real AAA FPS, slow, floaty and lacking punch. It kind of makes sense, as if you think about it, the combat in Borderlands games was never good, people played because the loot/levelling. But imo it's still playable. In part I think that lack of speed and damage comes from trying to be a half-MOBA, where people have to use abilities, teammates have to cover between themselves, etc etc, it wouldn't work if this would be Call of Duty.
The art style isn't as striking as in the concept videos, Overwatch has a better translation to the real game.
The good part is the game mode itself, it's pretty good. It isn't a full MOBA, but their own thing, taking just inspiration of them. Two lanes instead of three makes the game more focused and with more possibilities of flaking and jumping from one side to the other, while still ask for the player to be watchful of the big picture. No towers, you only have to escort your minions to certain points in the map, which are deeper into the enemy territory as the game progresses. No jungle, but there are some crystals around the map that you have to collect, and you can use them to spawn/upgrade a few structures around the map and your own gear, so the game can be pretty strategic, as you have to shuffle between
-killing/harassing enemy players
-pushing your lane
-helping the other lane
-recollecting crystals when possible, and upgrading stuff
Gigantic... has a lovely art style, with original and striking characters, lovely scenarios, lovely animations, all very lovely... but imo it has to improve a ton in the game itself.
I was surprised with Paragon. Given the Epic pedigree, I expected a pure shooter but with the hero philosophy, like Overwatch. But they came and said: nope, this is a MOBA.
In fact, it will be one of the few real 3rd person action game full MOBA, that I know of. I'm not counting Smite because it doesn't have "free aim" (the Y axis is locked) nor "free movement" (you are normally glued to the ground, leaps are specific abilities, you are invulnerable while doing them).
Paladins is very weak right now, it gives me the feeling it should have be presented and released the closed beta six months later than it did. Maybe they felt pressured by the competition. And I both liked Tribes and Smite, so it isn't like I don't like the company. The mode is super simple and right now the game consist in a lot of fire spam into a single conquest point and then run like crazy to the enemy base. And graphically is below previous titles, which a kind of ugly art style
.Obviously it will improve in the coming months, but I expected something better.
Smite is pretty good, I played 700 hours.
Battleborn imo isn't as bad as some people say. The problem at the core is that is a FPS (or FP action game, as some characters are melee) but the movement and gunplay feel mediocre in comparison with real AAA FPS, slow, floaty and lacking punch. It kind of makes sense, as if you think about it, the combat in Borderlands games was never good, people played because the loot/levelling. But imo it's still playable. In part I think that lack of speed and damage comes from trying to be a half-MOBA, where people have to use abilities, teammates have to cover between themselves, etc etc, it wouldn't work if this would be Call of Duty.
The art style isn't as striking as in the concept videos, Overwatch has a better translation to the real game.
The good part is the game mode itself, it's pretty good. It isn't a full MOBA, but their own thing, taking just inspiration of them. Two lanes instead of three makes the game more focused and with more possibilities of flaking and jumping from one side to the other, while still ask for the player to be watchful of the big picture. No towers, you only have to escort your minions to certain points in the map, which are deeper into the enemy territory as the game progresses. No jungle, but there are some crystals around the map that you have to collect, and you can use them to spawn/upgrade a few structures around the map and your own gear, so the game can be pretty strategic, as you have to shuffle between
-killing/harassing enemy players
-pushing your lane
-helping the other lane
-recollecting crystals when possible, and upgrading stuff
Gigantic... has a lovely art style, with original and striking characters, lovely scenarios, lovely animations, all very lovely... but imo it has to improve a ton in the game itself.
Conkerkid11
Member
Yeah, you never find people talking about games like League of Legends or Diablo using a third-person camera. Definitely usually called top-down, or isometric/bird view like you said. That's especially the case for most top-down MOBAs where a lot of the time your focus isn't even on the hero you're playing, as a lot of people tend not to play with a locked camera.
Paladins released their paid closed beta the same weekend Overwatch did its stress test beta weekend thing. They were definitely trying to directly compete with Blizzard.Paladins is very weak right now, it gives me the feeling it should have be presented and released the closed beta six months later than it did. Maybe they felt pressured by the competition. And I both liked Tribes and Smite, so it isn't like I don't like the company. The mode is super simple and right now the game consist in a lot of fire spam into a single conquest point and then run like crazy to the enemy base. And graphically is below previous titles, which a kind of ugly art style
Obviously it will improve in the coming months, but I expected something better.
Funny how many games in development right now are all prioritizing unique characters with colorful artstyles. Funnier still how many are going for a similar fantasy/sci-fi mashup style. The dwarf characters from Overwatch and Paladins look like they both go to the same family reunion.
ashecitism
Member
Paladins is very weak right now, it gives me the feeling it should have be presented and released the closed beta six months later than it did. Maybe they felt pressured by the competition. And I both liked Tribes and Smite, so it isn't like I don't like the company. The mode is super simple and right now the game consist in a lot of fire spam into a single conquest point and then run like crazy to the enemy base. And graphically is below previous titles, which a kind of ugly art style
Obviously it will improve in the coming months, but I expected something better.
Didn't Smite beta also start super early and in a rough state? At least regarding the graphics and art. Gameplay wise was it in a more polished state compared to Paladins at that point?
Tyreese Victoria
Banned
Didn't realise how many of these were in development. I'm interested in a FPS MOBA so ill let Paragon and Battleborn fight it out before I commit.
Turin Turambar
Member
This may be pretty subjective, but when I started Smite in Q2 2012, it felt better than Paladins right now, taking in account one was released in 2012 and the other in 2015, and Hirez now it's a bigger company with more veterans.
I think the problem apart from the obvious lack of polish, it's the cartoony art style. It isn't the first game that uses it, of course, but imo from Overwatch, Paladins, Battleborn and Gigantic, the blandest and more generic is Paladins.
I much prefer "class-based shooter" too.
Turin Turambar
Member
A hint for developers on this "genre". CC effects like stuns, slows, knockups etc, feel bad in first person, unfun. Include them in your game, but it has to be very short, like half second stun maximum instead of one second, or 20% slow instead of 40%.
ashecitism
Member
It came up in the previous thread together with BLOPS3, but Kalentan in the OP doesn't think it counts:
Haven't seen much from either of them to know. The inspiration is there, but it sounds a bit like Dirty Bomb, where there's more emphasis on weapons than abilities, thus the lines between chars can get blurred more. It's not that strict with the roles. You can be a medic, yet still go on killing sprees (in pubs at least). In something like TF2 that's less likely to happen. From the list I provided LawBreakers also seems to go that way from what they've shown. Every class is geared towards killing. It's more about shooting and movement.
ashecitism
Member
I've been thinking about this lately. I too was susprised it wasn't a shooter. Hell, the majority were I bet. And I wasn't sure a MOBA was a wise decision. But I think it can work out and may be a better decision than a shooter. Even if the MOBA market is hard to penetrate this is going to be a MOBA with, as you say, proper 3D action, it will have the most cutting edge graphics out of all, a more gritty style opposed to colorful, cartoon-y which might appeal to people, will be on console and have cross play. If it plays well, the card system isn't RNG and it has a business model that's deemed fair, I think it can have an appeal. Not saying it will capture a huge audience, but it can do decently.
Whereas in shooterland Overwatch just utterly dominates the mind share. Every other shooter gets compared to it and falls short. Both from art style and gameplay department. It just has a bigger mass appeal, better reception and had a good beta period. It is Blizzard, it is destined to be successful, it'll also be on consoles, and it has a business model deemed fair. Other new shooters launching in the same year, period will have a hard time competing.
Candescence
Member
I'd say Warframe semi-counts. While the warframes themselves don't have quite as much character as in games like TF2 and Overwatch, there's a large variety in frames, each with their own unique abilities. It's more like a class-based TPS, but it still borrows some things from MOBAs, though weapon loadouts are entirely divorced from warframe choices (every possible weapon can be equipped by any frame, and there's now about two-hundred of them), and warframe cosmetics are more heavily customizable than pretty much any other class/hero shooter.