wipeout364
Member
No debt; check Microsoft’s balance sheet and assets.
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How would you grade Phil Spencer’s tenure as head of Xbox?
PatientGamer
Member
I literally didn't think we'd end up in a place where Phil Spencer would be considered worse than Don Fucking Mattrick.. but here we are 
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i saw it coming. im sure you can go back to 2016 and find my posts pointing out how don matrick had lined up a fairly decent first 2-3 year lineup for X1X including making relationships with studios like Respawn, insomniac and Platinum Games. Had Phil continued those relationships, he couldve acquired respawn for 300 million, insomniac for $220 million and platinum for far cheaper. But he blew $2.5 million on minecraft instead. and cancelled scalebound.I literally didn't think we'd end up in a place where Phil Spencer would be considered worse than Don Fucking Mattrick.. but here we are
PatientGamer
Member
Damn, that's embarrassingly bad! Xbox would've been in a better place if they managed to buy Insomniac etc.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Xbox's division
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
He did well early on but the Series X generation has been an absolute blunder. Brilliant hardware ruined by piss poor software execution.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
The argument for Xbox was always a simple one: They did not invest in first party games. They never hired proper people to oversee their studios. They just spent money and never once tried accountability. The Coalition was proof that Xbox could have been much better and more competitive.
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avin
Member
Xbox under Spencer is the weirdest division of MS, some sort of doppelgänger almost. First, he did save it from the axe. And unlike the rest of MS, the hardware is great, the software sucks. How weird is that. The XSX is the sweetest bit of kit I've owned, though it's getting long in the tooth, and the S is creaking like we were told it would mid-gen. But the games just aren't there. Redfall was a disgrace, Halo Infinite and Starfield could have been so much better. Overall, a C, although if the games do end up coming it'll almost certainly be on PC for me.
Gamepass is the toughest one for me to assess honestly. It clearly hasn't worked the way Spencer hoped. Maybe it never could, but really, how could one know, although plenty of people claimed to have known, like God talks to them or something. But I suspect one had to try it to learn that, and I like when people try things. I left it out of my assessment. But if you include Gamepass the grade changes, and it sure as hell doesn't get better.
avin
Gamepass is the toughest one for me to assess honestly. It clearly hasn't worked the way Spencer hoped. Maybe it never could, but really, how could one know, although plenty of people claimed to have known, like God talks to them or something. But I suspect one had to try it to learn that, and I like when people try things. I left it out of my assessment. But if you include Gamepass the grade changes, and it sure as hell doesn't get better.
avin
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DrFigs
Member
Okay yeah that's more straightforward. And probably more important than the stuff I mentioned.
wipeout364
Member
Xbox is a part of the windows ecosystem so when you create your live account you are entering the Microsoft ecosystem. Not sure why this is not clear to people. Every movie I buy on Xbox is available on my laptop, a lot of games I buy are available on my PC. I can stream many Xbox games through my PC.
Does Google maps or docs generate profits? Probably not but it leads you to the google ecosystem. Same deal with xbox.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
when the president of gaming which parent company is the riches company in the world compliants about capitalism, you know he fucked up.
Xbox is bleeding red like crazy.
ZoukGalaxy
Member
He just destroyed the brand, that's all folks.
ZehDon
Member
Microsoft paid cash for ABK. They'll be expecting a ROI, sure, but it's not "debt" anymore than Sony buying Bungie is PlayStation "debt".
ChorizoPicozo
Member
of course is not. but you know what I am saying.
ZehDon
Member
This is what you said:
You didn't leave a lot of room for interpretation?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
.....figure of speech.i used "debt" to drive home the point that MS spending 100B is not charity for Xbox...they need to make that money back. and current xbox ain't making profits. they are fucked.
so this list:
and this statement
Are hilarious.
Klayzer
Member
Microsoft is doing well, Xbox platform is not. Xbox is selling less consoles and games than ever before, those are facts.
Can they turn it around, possibly. I think with new leadership for the platform, they could.
ZehDon
Member
Ok, so not debt at all then. What you're trying to say is that Microsoft want a return on their investments in Xbox. When you spend USD$90b on investments, no one is expecting that to be paid back the next week. Given we already know Xbox is working on their next generation of hardware, I'm not sure I see how "they are fucked".
i used "debt" to drive home the point that MS spending 100B is not charity for Xbox...they need to make that money back. and current xbox ain't making profits. they are fucked...
ChorizoPicozo
Member
it would take them like 30+ years. but it gets worse.
Funny answer:
They Lost Tim Dog.
Real answer:
Xbox Console/brand/Ecosystem are a complete failure:
No one wants the console, the brand is in the gutter and their ecosystem has destroyed the "economy of gaming": discourages people from buying games; their 30% cut is even worse thanks to Game Pass
2/3 of Xbox as a division is third-party (thrives outside the Xbox ecosystem).
=
Xbox as a console is done.
As a division, Xbox faces immense pressure to maximize revenue, this negates being exclusive to the console with the smaller install base. So they NEED to put their games everywhere. MS is not an entertainment company and they are incompetent at game development. Their output of quality and quantity is a big factor for their current state; on top of that, they are going to face hell in the next 2-4 years regarding Studio Management, Power vacuums, internal turmoil, talent retention, and all kindz of shitz like A.I. integration/Unionization.....They are fuuucked.
Klayzer
Member
Disagree somewhat on Xbox being totally fucked. A better leader can offset some of these problems. A string of highly rated/quality games, can also get momentum going. A new voice is surrely needed, for Xbox to reclaim some of it's lost market share.it would take them like 30+ years. but it gets worse.
Funny answer:
They Lost Tim Dog.
Real answer:
Xbox Console/brand/Ecosystem are a complete failure:
No one wants the console, the brand is in the gutter and their ecosystem has destroyed the "economy of gaming": discourages people from buying games; their 30% cut is even worse thanks to Game Pass
2/3 of Xbox as a division is third-party (thrives outside the Xbox ecosystem).
=
Xbox as a console is done.
As a division, Xbox faces immense pressure to maximize revenue, this negates being exclusive to the console with the smaller install base. So they NEED to put their games everywhere. MS is not an entertainment company and they are incompetent at game development. Their output of quality and quantity is a big factor for their current state; on top of that, they are going to face hell in the next 2-4 years regarding Studio Management, Power vacuums, internal turmoil, talent retention, and all kindz of shitz like A.I. integration/Unionization.....They are fuuucked.
MayauMiao
Member
Of Don Mattrick?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
is not a leadership problem. Is a "culture" problem. And that culture comes from MS.
Klayzer
Member
A good "focused" leader can change a culture though. It won't be overnight, but he/she can definitely stem the tide with shrewd moves.
ZehDon
Member
I'm betting maths isn't your strongest suite.
Your rant boils down to the same thing: they're not making games people want. If people wanted the games Xbox was making, their consoles would move better numbers, more Game Pass subscribers, etc. As you've highlighted, they recently acquired some new studios - meaning they now have a lot of people on staff who know how to make games people want. I'm still not seeing how "They are fuuucked", all I'm seeing is wishful thinking.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
To be fair is not my math. Is colin's
if they don't make "games people want" they can't grow their market share, which impacts the amount of money they can make inside their ecosystem. is a snowball effect.
if this, if that. it doesn't matter. MS/Xbox has failed to do so.
yeah, like Redfall, Pentiment, Grounded, Bleeding Edge, Hi-Fi, Starfield, Forza....Their recent output has failed to increase Xbox console sales and GP subscribers...They are fuucked.
of course:
is it? I'm just making an analysis based in previous examples and MS/xbox's own track record.
I just read a couple of my posts in the ABK acquisition thread....damn, I have a massive dick.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
it would take them like 30+ years. but it gets worse.
Funny answer:
They Lost Tim Dog.
Real answer:
Xbox Console/brand/Ecosystem are a complete failure:
No one wants the console, the brand is in the gutter and their ecosystem has destroyed the "economy of gaming": discourages people from buying games; their 30% cut is even worse thanks to Game Pass
2/3 of Xbox as a division is third-party (thrives outside the Xbox ecosystem).
=
Xbox as a console is done.
As a division, Xbox faces immense pressure to maximize revenue, this negates being exclusive to the console with the smaller install base. So they NEED to put their games everywhere. MS is not an entertainment company and they are incompetent at game development. Their output of quality and quantity is a big factor for their current state; on top of that, they are going to face hell in the next 2-4 years regarding Studio Management, Power vacuums, internal turmoil, talent retention, and all kindz of shitz like A.I. integration/Unionization.....They are fuuucked.
Chorizo eating too much sausage to write of a company of this size and resources, they have the abity to pivot and likely are still going to release more console hardware. (Most likely a portable hybrid)
ChorizoPicozo
Member
mine. thats how big it is. especially after reading some of my posts in the ABK acquisition thread. damn, I was so right.
ZehDon
Member
Correct.
Pentiment, Grounded, and Hi-Fi Rush are legitimately good games that have been well received. What point do you think you're making, exactly? Anyway, I thought you were focused on the "100b debt"... which comes from acquiring companies not responsible for any the games you've listed? As I said, Microsoft literally just bought the services of thousands of people who can help get their shit together.
Maybe a few more "u"s in there next time you repeat your little mantra, that'll be sure to make you right
ChorizoPicozo
Member
their console demand in the market has been decreasing. GP subscribers are not growing. Those games are not doing what they are supposed to be doing.
that 100B is not coming from ABK alone. is from their entire acquisition spree since 2018 or so.
what did I said? the next 2-4 years are going to be hell. because they need to get their shit together. Their track record is not good.
is not a mantra when is happening in 4K and real time at 120hz baby.Maybe a few more "u"s in there next time you repeat your little mantra, that'll be sure to make you right
ZehDon
Member
Correct.
The games I highlighted are AA passion projects, not console-selling megatons. Why did you include them if you're only referring to the AAA killer apps? Did your list look too small without them? If so, you didn't even include Halo Infinite, arguably their biggest ever failure?
... you mean the studios who've made games like Hellblade, a successful and incredibly well received title? What?
No idea, you didn't post that when talking to me. You might be getting confused to whom your posting with?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
opportunity cost
I just wrote the games that were recently released.
the latest forza is up there. maybe is even bigger...for that fanbase.
and all the rest.
are you ZehDon? cuz i said that to that person:
ZehDon
Member
... what? I'm sorry, but none of that really makes sense.
Er, that's not the large, multi-paragraph post of yours that you quoted that I asked who you were talking to? Did you misquote?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
maybe i dunno.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
Based on how long since I’ve felt compelled to turn on my Xbox… Average. Very very average.
Probably change my grade to a D. Had higher hopes but they dashed then pretty thoroughly.
Probably change my grade to a D. Had higher hopes but they dashed then pretty thoroughly.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
S-Tier: He’s done an incredible job selling Playstation consoles
Bumblebeetuna
Member
B
BC, One X and GamePass would make him S tier but they’ve had too many software problems
BC, One X and GamePass would make him S tier but they’ve had too many software problems
Even I would have done a better job than him.
The strong points of his tenure are :
-Series X is a well-made console
-Series S as a cheaper option was a good idea
-GamePass is an excellent concept (I wouldn't have bet on that, but he was right to).
For the rest, his inability to capitalize on the enormous catalogue of dormant IPs Microsoft owns, and his lack of questioning on why Xbox Studios output has been so bad brought the brand down to the gutter. At some points, heads have to roll when for one decade the studios barely produced good games.
The strong points of his tenure are :
-Series X is a well-made console
-Series S as a cheaper option was a good idea
-GamePass is an excellent concept (I wouldn't have bet on that, but he was right to).
For the rest, his inability to capitalize on the enormous catalogue of dormant IPs Microsoft owns, and his lack of questioning on why Xbox Studios output has been so bad brought the brand down to the gutter. At some points, heads have to roll when for one decade the studios barely produced good games.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
There have been bigger turnaround stories in tech, for companies that have been in far worse situations than Microsoft’s Xbox (see Apple). To say definitively that it “can’t” is ridiculous console warring.
Secondly, I never mentioned a strategy of a console for turning the brand around, although they could do that as well.
Because you now make all the money they made from other platforms
.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
The difference is that those companies had far more competent people in charge. Xbox does not have a single competent person running it.
BattleScar
Member
Phil Spencer is a PR Genius. He gets all of the credit for Xbox's successes, but none of the blame for Xbox's failures. When they do something right, its all thanks to Phil. When they do something wrong, "Muh Don Mattrick".
All of which proves that as long as you say all the right things in interviews, everyone who is terminally online, will eat it up and hail you as the king.
But the market doth spoken, and the general consumer doesn't give a shit about PR, because most people aren't loser degenerates like us, spending more time on NeoGAF talking about interviews and games, more than we spend actually playing them. And so here we are.
Phil's greatest successes (if you can call it that) are the devaluation of games via the GaaS modus operandi in the form of GamePass, and convincing Microsoft to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on gaming IP, so they can coast of IP ownership, rather than have to do something difficult and complicated like, managing a brand or hardware product portfolio.
Every decision made has been for PR, more than it has been for the Xbox Brand. How Bonnie Ross was allowed to sit around and obliterate any good will with the Halo franchise for the better part of 15 years. The other bums in charge of Xbox Games Studios were allowed to collect massive paychecks without fear of consequence of failure. The only people who deserve anything really are the Forza team. The rest of them should have been canned 10 years ago. Mismanagement from top to bottom. A fundamental lack of ruthlessness in building and supporting the brand. Spending money on existing IP, instead of spending way less making your own IP.
If you're more a fan of Microsoft than Xbox though, I'm sure you've loved his tenure. He's all but killed the Xbox brand, and made Microsoft one of the largest publishers in the industry. Great job.
All of which proves that as long as you say all the right things in interviews, everyone who is terminally online, will eat it up and hail you as the king.
But the market doth spoken, and the general consumer doesn't give a shit about PR, because most people aren't loser degenerates like us, spending more time on NeoGAF talking about interviews and games, more than we spend actually playing them. And so here we are.
Phil's greatest successes (if you can call it that) are the devaluation of games via the GaaS modus operandi in the form of GamePass, and convincing Microsoft to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on gaming IP, so they can coast of IP ownership, rather than have to do something difficult and complicated like, managing a brand or hardware product portfolio.
Every decision made has been for PR, more than it has been for the Xbox Brand. How Bonnie Ross was allowed to sit around and obliterate any good will with the Halo franchise for the better part of 15 years. The other bums in charge of Xbox Games Studios were allowed to collect massive paychecks without fear of consequence of failure. The only people who deserve anything really are the Forza team. The rest of them should have been canned 10 years ago. Mismanagement from top to bottom. A fundamental lack of ruthlessness in building and supporting the brand. Spending money on existing IP, instead of spending way less making your own IP.
If you're more a fan of Microsoft than Xbox though, I'm sure you've loved his tenure. He's all but killed the Xbox brand, and made Microsoft one of the largest publishers in the industry. Great job.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Yep, he will never be forgiven for how poorly he managed his first party studios. That's on him. His best decision was allowing Rodd Fergusson to run The Coalition. He's available and if Xbox was smart (LOL...who are we kidding) they would have him run Xbox studios and oversee all software. I guarantee titles like Perfect Dark would have been out years ago.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
The one truly competent person they had during his tenure, Rodd Fergusson, was allowed to walk and joined....Blizzard...which I means he is back with Xbox.....C'mon Microsoft, he will at least make sure you get games out.
I voted F, but after some reflection I think a D or C- is more fair. As much as I think Phil drove Xbox into the ground, the BC initiative was really great. I also don't hate the acquisitions as much as some. On paper that should have led to great 1st party output. It just hasn't materialized and has been tied to gamepass. Gamepass is trash though.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
and that’s why Microsoft needs to clean house at XBOX and completely restructure. I’m not against their new direction of merging console and Windows, but I have zero confidence in leadership to implement.
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