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[AlteredForms]

There have been numerous video games with an emphasis on sword and shield combat, an amalgamation of cold steel slashing against warm flesh to the soundtrack of heavy metal. Battle systems with combos, multipliers button prompts and buckets of gore. But which one is the best and provides the most memorable attacks, combined with feel and satisfaction of delivering the killing blow? That's the puzzle behind this thread and one we will address in the upcoming posts. You can choose one video game and only one, plus a single favourite move that you enjoyed executing. Genres and camera perspectives are irrelevant, it's all about the sensation and pleasure of lowering the boom.

Mine:

Castlevania: Lords of Shadow

I'm currently playing through this and it could be seen as the brainchild of this thread. Gabriel Belmont can unleash some devastating attack with his chain, but combine this with light or shadow magic and you're cooking with gasoline. From slashing to swipe attacks, plus strong secondary weapons make this combat system crisp and easy to memorize, plus the sound and weight of the chain comes through.

Favourite Move:

Direct Heavy Attack Combo Final

Direct Heavy Combo

The Direct Heavy Combo is a sequence of heavy attacks in the Lords of Shadow games. To start this combo in Lords of Shadow or Lords of Shadow 2, hold down the [Direct Attack] button. The initial direct attack will be followed up with a direct heavy attack, which deals out more damage and may...

castlevania.fandom.com

Unfortunately I can't find a suitable video for this attack, but I'll leave the Castlevania wiki page for those interested. Essentially it involves Gabriel making multiple circular slashes in front of him that feel weighty and heavy, with the final slash involving him twisting his body and throwing the chain overhead onto the target. It feels raw and visceral, and I feel sympathy for the enemy on the delivering end of the final blow.

 

[GymWolf]

I thought the first one was a bit clunky combat wise, the second was an inferior game but the combat was more fluid imo.

 

[AlteredForms]

I thought the first one was a bit clunky combat wise, the second was an inferior game but the combat was more fluid imo.

That's all well and good, but what's your submission? I'm going to assume you're about to spam the thread with God of War amiright?

 

[Jennings]

Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor/War.

 

[Fbh]

If we are talking satisfying moves in slashers it doesn't get better than the Izuna drop

 

[NightmareFarm]

Bayonetta games. Bayonetta 2 personally. But either Bayonetta game is in a league of it's own.

 

[Punished Miku]

Great choice on Lords of Shadow. Direct Heavy is literally also my favorite combo in that game lol.

I gotta go with Ninja Gaiden 2. And my favorite move is the Flying Swallow.

 

[deriks]

Devil May Cry V, the Judgement Cut


Vergil doesn't just breaks the fourth wall, he fucking tears the whole thing

 

[Chukhopops]

Sekiro - Lightning Reversal:

- Requires a bit of execution without being impossible;
- Looks cool;
- Relevant to Japanese samurai lore;
- Doesn’t break the game since it’s a counter;
- Hugely satisfying to use.

Best move ever.

 

[Black_Stride]

Bayonetta is my number 1 pick for melee combat system, I poured over 200 hours into Bayonetta 1, its like a 15 hour game.
Favorite move in the game, so many to pick from, but ill settle on one.

Moon of MahaaKalaa counter.

Especially versus bosses or enemies who do multiple attacks in quick succession.
So satisfying.
You are basically performing Evo Moment 37 over and over.

 

[Danjin44]

Both Bayonetta and Sekiro already mentioned so I go with Astral Chain.

The synergy of pulling off combos with two characters is amazing.

 

[GymWolf]

That's all well and good, but what's your submission? I'm going to assume you're about to spam the thread with God of War amiright?

Nope, i love too many games to have a single favourite.

I love the melee in condemned 1 in the same way i love the melee in bloodborne or tlou2 or dying light 1 for different reasons.

Just put into account that i despise every game without good ragdoll\hit reactions or with precanned death animations so intrusive like when you are still hitting something but he is locked into a dead animation (coff tsushima), shit should be nuclearized in 2022.

To me it's all about visceral feeling, weighty animations and visual variety over gameplay mechanics when i hit\kill something, when i can have both is even better.

 

[Elog]

Sekiro - Mikiri counter.

It takes some time for Sekiro to click. One of the first moves you learn how to perform when the game clicks is the mikiro counter. Until the very end it remained one of my favorite moves despite being an early ability - probably reminded me of that early satisfaction of 'getting it' (Sekiro is really up there as one of the best games I have ever played).

 

[John Bilbo]

A horizontal slash with a sword cutting the opponent's head clean off in Chivalry: Medieval Warfare is satisfying as hell. Especially as the game is PVP.

 

[HYDE]

Both Bayonetta and Sekiro already mentioned so I go with Astral Chain.

The synergy of pulling off combos with two characters is amazing.

No jump button in astral chain and god hand killed them both for me. Feels too tanky and way less action oriented.

 

[Danjin44]

No jump button in astral chain and god hand killed them both for me. Feels too tanky and way less action oriented.

I personally LOVED both games, once the combat clicks it was super fun for me and I like how that are so different than other character action games out there.

 

[HYDE]

I personally LOVED both games, once the combat clicks it was super fun for me and I like how that are so different than other character action games out there.

I had fun with them both also, but if a jump button was included it would have encouraged a lot more vertical ideas.

Also my submission as my other favorites are taken/already mentioned…Metal Gear Rising Revengeance!

 

[Danjin44]

I had fun with them both also, but if a jump button was included it would have encouraged a lot more vertical ideas.

Technically Astral Chin can jump but you need to use your Legion to do it.

 

[Pejo]

Nioh 2 and it's not even close. If your hack 'n slash doesn't have a sheathe button, you're not doing it stylishly enough.


Visually it's kind of hard to tell what's going on if you're not the one controlling it, but god damn what a satisfying battle system.

Also, bonus:

 

[The artful mincer]

Of the modern games I think I like God of war is the best. Feels great and has just the right amount of depth I can get my head around. Deeper games like devil may cry I feel a bit overwhelmed with.

Although I do think God of war seamlessly blends ranged combat and close quarters combat better than any other game.

I gotta say Ninja gaiden 1 and 2 were my favourite back in the day. They felt so good the blood and gore in Ninja gaiden 2 especially was crazy

 

[synchronicity]

Bayonetta, but if we expand it to games without weapon based combat, God Hand is my all-time favorite in this genre.

 

[ShadowLag]

Bayonetta 1 has the best combat, by far - and I've played nearly all of them.



On the controller, it feels as good as it looks.

 

[01011001]

Ninja Gaiden 1/2
DMC4
Bayonetta

those are the kings of hack n slash combat

 

[Represent.]

The golden children:

SIFU
Ninja Gaiden 2
The Last of Us: Part II
God of War: Ragnarok will probably join the frey shortly.

 

[AlteredForms]

If we are talking satisfying moves in slashers it doesn't get better than the Izuna drop

I've seen this one before:

Bayonetta games. Bayonetta 2 personally. But either Bayonetta game is in a league of it's own.

Bayonetta is my number 1 pick for melee combat system, I poured over 200 hours into Bayonetta 1, its like a 15 hour game.
Favorite move in the game, so many to pick from, but ill settle on one.

Moon of MahaaKalaa counter.

Especially versus bosses or enemies who do multiple attacks in quick succession.
So satisfying.
You are basically performing Evo Moment 37 over and over.

Bayonetta has some votes.

Nope, i love too many games to have a single favourite.

I love the melee in condemned 1 in the same way i love the melee in bloodborne or tlou2 or dying light 1 for different reasons.

Just put into account that i despise every game without good ragdoll\hit reactions or with precanned death animations so intrusive like when you are still hitting something but he is locked into a dead animation (coff tsushima), shit should be nuclearized in 2022.

To me it's all about visceral feeling, weighty animations and visual variety over gameplay mechanics when i hit\kill something, when i can have both is even better.

Pick one you pussy!!!

 

[01011001]

The Last of Us: Part II

I mean, sure, context sensitive attack animations with zero depth xD great pick

 

[Hot5pur]

Best hack and slash...hmmm
Between Ninja Gaiden 2, DMC3/4 (weirdly 5 is great but somehow not as satisfying) and Bayonetta.
Will go with Ninja Gaiden 2.

 

[Represent.]

I mean, sure, context sensitive attack animations with zero depth xD great pick

Blah blah blah.

Theres more to great combat than "depth".

Not everything great is deep. Not everything deep is great. Expand your field of view.

The game deserves a spot on the list because its unrivalled when it comes to brutality, intensity, AI, how visceral it is, etc.

 

[dreamcastluvr]

The classic God of War series (couldn't get into the 2018 reboot), Ninja Gaiden series, Castlevania series, the 3D Guantlet games, the Rygar reboot, Afro Samurai, Bayonetta... man, it's tough for a hack n slash junkie like me to pick just one GOAT.

But for the purpose of this thread, I'll highlight a personal fave that I'm currently playing through for the 4th or 5th time which is barely mentioned in hack n slash discussions.

Heavenly Sword. Nariko is straight up brutal. She has several moves/ finishers where she goes straight for the crotch of her enemies.

Here's her version of the Izuna Drop; with her heel firmly implanted in her enemy's perineum.


Even Kratos didn't think to use his chains like this...


I get that the quick time events and motion-sensor parts of the game were a huge turn off for a lot of players, but I'll risk sounding cliché by saying that the combat is so fluid and satisfying, and the variety of enemies and bosses keeps it even more interesting. And although it was an earlier PS3 game, the visuals are still a treat to behold.

 

[AlteredForms]

Ninja Gaiden 1/2
DMC4
Bayonetta

those are the kings of hack n slash combat

The golden children:

SIFU
Ninja Gaiden 2
The Last of Us: Part II
God of War: Ragnarok will probably join the frey shortly.

People, people. I'm pleased that you're enthusiastic about the thread, but one game only. One game which in your opinion is the best at melee combat.

 

[Black_Stride]

Blah blah blah.

Theres more to great combat than "depth".

Not everything great is deep. Not everything deep is great. Expand your field of view.

The game deserves a spot on the list because its unrivalled when it comes to brutality, intensity, AI, how visceral it is, etc.

Can you even choose what move you do or do you just click a button and hope something cool happens.
And what does the AI do?
Can they block your attacks, or parry, or read what you are about to do mid combo and have a counter to that?
Whats so great about it.
How exaclt yis it a good melee combat system when its a glorified quick time event?

Atleast give us some reasoning behind your answer.

Cuz Ninja Gaiden is brutal, Ryu straight up taking limbs and heads, the intensity is some other level, when dem black spider clan dweebs surround you and you are sweating balls, you become one with the controller or die.

 

[Represent.]

Can you even choose what move you do or do you just click a button and hope something cool happens.
And what does the AI do?
Can they block your attacks, or parry, or read what you are about to do mid combo and have a counter to that?
Whats so great about it.
How exaclt yis it a good melee combat system when its a glorified quick time event?

Atleast give us some reasoning behind your answer.

Cuz Ninja Gaiden is brutal, Ryu straight up taking limbs and heads, the intensity is some other level, when dem black spider clan dweebs surround you and you are sweating balls, you become one with the controller or die.

Read my OP and watch the video in my thread

Straight up... The combat in The Last of Us Part II is completely and entirely unmatched.

Its extremely visceral and intense. The moment to moment combat is full of verticality which opens up attack options due to great level design. It has more brutality and realistic gore than any game ever. I love Ninja Gaiden, but that gore is cartoon shit in comparison. The hit reaction is fucking untouchable.

To me hit reaction is what takes combat from good to GREAT. You feel every blow you deal. If i feel like im hitting air, its AUTOmatically trash (its why I dont like super flashy games like Bayonetta, just feels so light and airy) The AI communicate to each other and to you in a more realistic manner than any other game I've seen, calling out names when you kill them is a beautiful touch. The way they work together as a team, flank you, attack when you have no ammo, etc. Enemies beg for their lives when they are the last one remaining. The animation is by far the best in the industry. I could go on. Its the sum of all its parts.

Best played on Survivor difficulty

 

[Represent.]

People, people. I'm pleased that you're enthusiastic about the thread, but one game only. One game which in your opinion is the best at melee combat.

If we're talking JUST melee than I gotta leave TLOU2 out of it right.

Then my answer is SIFU

Absolutely fantastic melee combat. Carried the entire game. Felt like I was playing The Raid.

I'll report back to you on November 9th though

 

[Black_Stride]

Read my OP and watch the video in my thread

Straight up... The combat in The Last of Us Part II is completely and entirely unmatched.

Its extremely visceral and intense. The moment to moment combat is full of verticality which opens up attack options due to great level design. It has more brutality and realistic gore than any game ever. I love Ninja Gaiden, but that gore is cartoon shit in comparison. The hit reaction is fucking untouchable. To me hit reaction is what takes good combat to GREAT. You feel every blow you deal. If i feel like im hitting air, its AUTOmatically trash (its why I dont like super flashy games like Bayonetta, just feels so light and airy) The AI communicate to each other and to you in a more realistic manner than any other game I've seen, calling out names when you kill them is a beautiful touch. The way they work together as a team, flank you, attack when you have no ammo, etc. Enemies beg for their lives when they are the last one remaining. The animation is by far the best in the industry. I could go on. Its the sum of all its parts.

So the melee system is shit, but it looks nice?

Gotcha.
Atleast we agree the actual melee combat system is shit.
I do agree it looks nice, but there is no melee combat system to even dissect, its not a system, its effectively a QTE.

 

[Represent.]

So the melee system is shit, but it looks nice?

Gotcha.
Atleast we agree the actual melee combat system is shit.
I do agree it looks nice, but there is no melee combat system to even dissect, its not a system, its effectively a QTE.

No other game is as hard hitting and visceral. Completely ignore that if you want to.

Theres more to great melee combat that perceived dEpTh. You press more buttons. Amazing. If you're hitting air, then who gives a fuck homie

 

[Black_Stride]

No other game is as hard hitting and visceral. Completely ignore that if you want to.

Theres more to great melee combat that perceived dEpTh. You press more buttons. Amazing. If you're hitting air, then who gives a fuck homie

You just showed me a bunch of mashing the attack button.
Might as well have made it one press and let me watch it happen, if I dont actually have any control of what im doing.

 

[Generic]

Can you even choose what move you do or do you just click a button and hope something cool happens.
And what does the AI do?
Can they block your attacks, or parry, or read what you are about to do mid combo and have a counter to that?
Whats so great about it.
How exaclt yis it a good melee combat system when its a glorified quick time event?

Atleast give us some reasoning behind your answer.

Cuz Ninja Gaiden is brutal, Ryu straight up taking limbs and heads, the intensity is some other level, when dem black spider clan dweebs surround you and you are sweating balls, you become one with the controller or die.

To be fair enemies in Ninja Gaiden have no counters to Izuna Drop.

 

[AlteredForms]

No other game is as hard hitting and visceral. Completely ignore that if you want to.

Theres more to great melee combat that perceived dEpTh. You press more buttons. Amazing. If you're hitting air, then who gives a fuck homie

Where's the melee system in the Last of Us II? That's just a bunch of button prompts, where's the combos and chain attacks?

 

[Represent.]

You just showed me a bunch of mashing the attack button.
Might as well have made it one press and let me watch it happen, if I dont actually have any control of what im doing.

Do you not "mash the attack button" in any game ever? In Ninja Gaiden when I press square Ryu swings his sword.

And you do have control. You can go prone, choose method of attack, melee, shoot, take hostage. Stop trying to act like environmental awareness in combat is somehow bad.

 

[Represent.]

Where's the melee system in the Last of Us II? That's just a bunch of button prompts, where's the combos and chain attacks?

That is melee combat. Not everything has to be DMC.

 

[Black_Stride]

To be fair enemies in Ninja Gaiden have no counters to Izuna Drop.

The counter to the Izuna Drop is the planning you need to do to actually execute it.
Last enemy - Go for it.
Got some distance - Go for it.
Surrounded - Aint nobody got time for that.

 

[AlteredForms]

That is melee combat. Not everything has to be DMC.

Well that's what I was kind of going for in this thread. If that's the game we're playing then we might as well throw GTA V into the mix.

 

[Danjin44]

That is melee combat. Not everything has to be DMC.

Then I would say Cyberpunk has much deeper melee combat than TLOU, you have more options, like parry, different melee weapons and using chrome abilities.

 

[Represent.]

Well that's what I was kind of going for in this thread. If that's the game we're playing then we might as well throw GTA V into the mix.

So if a game has no combos and chain attacks, its not melee combat?

You should change melee to "character action" aka GOW, DMC, Bayo and whatever Team Ninja makes lol

Then I would say Cyberpunk has much deeper melee combat than TLOU, you have more options, like parry, different melee weapons and using chrome abilities.

Sure. But it doesn't feel any good to me. As i've said before, how "deep" a game is has no impact on how much I enjoy the games combat. Sifu is not really deep, you can boil it down to doging and parrying. but that shit is still excellent

 

[Danjin44]

Sure. But it doesn't feel any good to me. As i've said before, how "deep" a game is has no impact on how much I enjoy the games combat. Sifu is not really deep, you can boil it down to doging and parrying. but that shit is still excellent

To me it’s seems you care less about actual mechanics of melee combat and more about the graphic side.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

How to derail a thread - The Thread

Fable 2 has some cool melee combat and a pretty deep skilltree to go with it. Still one of the most satisfying combat systems overall - especially compared to everything else released at that time.

 

[Black_Stride]

Do you not "mash the attack button" in any game ever? In Ninja Gaiden when I press square Ryu swings his sword.

And you do have control. You can go prone, choose method of attack, melee, shoot, take hostage. Stop trying to act like environmental awareness in combat is somehow bad.

You cant win a melee scrap in DMC, Nioh, Sekiro, Elden Ring, Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden by just mashing the attack button.
You will get fucked in two seconds.

TLOU you only have the attack button, once you and your opponent are in lock step, its a glorified QTE.
Im not saying its necessarily a bad one, the game isnt designed as a melee fighter, just like DMC might have guns but if someone asks what game has the best shooting feel, im not going to say floating in the air holding down the fire button in DMC is top tier shooting.

Its borderline stupid to assume a game design around stealth and shooting would have a better melee system than games designed around melee systems?
Worse still when said melee system is a one button affair....melee combat in TLOU is literally one button, what other game mentioned in this thread has a one button melee system?

 

[Represent.]

To me it’s seems you care less about actual mechanics of melee combat and more about the graphic side.

has more to do with hit reaction and feel than graphics. Sifu is my current GOTY based purely off the feel of the combat and boss fights. Felt every punch in that game. And combos were legit.

 

[Black_Stride]

has more to do with hit reaction and feel than graphics. Sifu is my current GOTY based purely off the feel of the combat and boss fights. Felt every punch in that game. And combos were legit.

What are the combos in TLOU?

 

[Represent.]

You cant win a melee scrap in DMC, Nioh, Sekiro, Elden Ring, Bayonetta or Ninja Gaiden by just mashing the attack button.
You will get fucked in two seconds.

TLOU you only have the attack button, once you and your opponent are in lock step, its a glorified QTE.
Im not saying its necessarily a bad one, the game isnt designed as a melee fighter, just like DMC might have guns but if someone asks what game has the best shooting feel, im not going to say floating in the air holding down the fire button in DMC is top tier shooting.

Its borderline stupid to assume a game design around stealth and shooting would have a better melee system than games designed around melee systems?
Worse still when said melee system is a one button affair....melee combat in TLOU is literally one button, what other game mentioned in this thread has a one button melee system?

Again. You're equating quality to depth and nothing else. Not everything deep is good. And not everything good is deep.

Im saying melee combat doesnt have to be deep to be good. What matters most is if it feels good to play.

You are saying even if it feels good to play, it cant be good, because theres no combos.

And theres 2 buttons. You can dodge.