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Jeff Grubb: Hermen Hulst is now the man running Bungie, dev will lose it's autonomy
Luipadre
Member
I never really cared about bungie. I never liked Halo that much and i'll always see destiny as a wasted potential
{insert code here}
Member
CEOs are hilarious. “Hey kid, come check out my new Maserati. Cool, right? Btw you’re fired”
It's okay b/c he's got the rainbow colors and said f- racism in his profile. Man gets pass.
It's also a gd outlier. That's like Satya pointing to Candy Crush userbase and saying Xbox now has 500M users
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wipeout364
Member
I am sure Sony had a hundred lawyers go through the Activision Bungie contract with a magnifying glass before writing their acquisition deal.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
It's okay b/c he's got the rainbow colors and said f- racism in his profile. Man gets pass.
It's also a gd outlier. That's like Satya pointing to Candy Crush userbase and saying Xbox now has 500M users
Be brave, be kind. Fuck racism and social injustice. You’re/fired.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
ChorizoPicozo
Member
money?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
I don't think this is it champ
Negotiator101
Member
Won't be long and Jones will leave with a big bag of cash and the Bungie of old will be a mere memory.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
It’s like a wet dream for you, isn’t it?Coming to Destiny soon.....
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Hulst too now?
Bernardougf
Member
Its not a playstation studios game though... since its not a first party sony owned developer... and the crazies is anybody that has input on their games and can make the decisions that sony studios have been making, not necessarily him.
Do you really think sony had imput on rise of the ronin or final fantasy remake ? Second/third party games dont work like that most of the time.
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Lumpyoatmeal
Member
I remember these guys having a fan base not only on console but PC as well especially with Combat Evolve back then. In my opinion they would of been better off stepping up to the plate by managing themselves and not compromising with a publisher when they had the opportunity like a lot of developers had back then to be independent and leverage the web. All that talent and time just absolutely wasted. All these developers we grew up with are getting crushed by publishers and platforms because none of them wanted to step up, y’all developers should of used the web.
Bernardougf
Member
Exactly... its very nice this game existis for us to play... it would never been done this way under western sony studios.. and everybody should know that.It's okay b/c he's got the rainbow colors and said f- racism in his profile. Man gets pass.
It's also a gd outlier. That's like Satya pointing to Candy Crush userbase and saying Xbox now has 500M users
FUBARx89
Member
So, will Pete Parsons be getting his golden parachute the board being dissolved?
Or can Sony fire him for whatever gone on at Bungie?
{insert code here}
Member
Not gonna be mad at Jones if he cashes out. Unlike Parsons, he was there day one. It was his company.
yurinka
Member
Bungie already did lose their autonomy completely over two years ago. They sold the 100% of the company to Sony, who did put it as a fully owned SIE subsidiary. Since then Bungie reports to its CEO, that now is Hermen Hulst after Jim Ryan retired.
It's a fully owned SIE subsidiary. Hermen can make a call tomorrow, fire Pete and to order them to cancel Marathon, Destiny 3 and shut down Destiny 2 because he decided that now Bungie will focus on making PSVR2 exclusive Knack 3 and Mister Mosquito 2.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
If Sony dissolved the board (implied by what Grubb said) then Parsons is just an employee of Bungie (subsidiary of Sony.)
It’s possible Grubb is wrong and Bungie did this and made a deal for the remaining employees to stay autonomous though.
Bernardougf
Member
Only if you dont believe in what is known about their contract acquisition conditions and what sony and bungie have been saying ... if you believe them and the details, no, they had autonomy.
ReBurn
Gold Member
why?
yurinka
Member
What is known is that Sony acquired 100% of Bungie, and since then is a fully owned SIE subsidiary that reports to the SIE CEO, now Hermen Hulst.
Same guy who is now the CEO of the SIE Studio Business Group, which includes Bungie, PS Studios and the business related with the non-gaming adaptations of the PS Studios and Bungie IPs.
Same guy that is one of the SIE people that Sony did put in the Bungie board of directors since the moment they were acquired.
They said that Sony was giving them creative freedom -as they do with all their dev studios- and that wanted them to continue publishing on all platforms day one. Some gaming wankers took as if Bungie continues independent and can do whatever they want even going against Sony's will and interests, maybe because some secret deal.
But this is just fantasies, SIE owns the 100% of Bungie so can do whatever they want with them. As an example, Bungie underperformed last year, so Kotoki got angry and Hermen decided to fire over 200 people including higher ups, move 155 people to other SIE offices and to move an incubated project they had to PS Studios.
Bungie is a 100% owned SIE subsidiary that reports to the SIE CEO. They are not autonomous or independent at all, they just have creative freedom and continue publishing with their own publishing label in all platforms., that's all.
SIE paid 3.6 Billion dollars for having full control of Bungie, they bought it. Hermen can do whatever he wants with Bungie.
Bungie hired several hundred people since the acquisition, Marathon and The Final Shape got delayed and Lightfall got delayed to the point they were in the red, so SIE/Hermen did cut the fat accordingly to put some order there: moved some people to other SIE teams, moved one of their new projects to PS Studios and fired over 200 people including higher ups.
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Rocco Schiavone
Member
Correct. Who gives a shit about them?? They are doing what? Coding another shitty Destiny or other Gaas games??
Barakov
Gold Member
Can't think of a bigger oof than this.
Yes, it is. 'PlayStation Studios' is the name of the global game development division of SIE led by Hermen Hulst, it doesn't mean 'studios owned by Sony'.
That's literally how it works as a whole, they have Internal Production and External Production groups, and the SIE producers working on all these games. But the thing is that they all report to Hulst.
Final Fantasy VII Remake? Of course not, since that's a Square Enix produced game. Rise of the Ronin? Yes, it's a Sony produced game, see pic above.
You just have no idea of what you're talking about. But even if second-party games were indeed a thing, they would still fall under PlayStation Studios.
ReBurn
Gold Member
What "is known" about the acquisition conditions was mostly what people convinced themselves must be true. The moment Sony closed the deal they completely owned Bungie. There was no contract condition that made that not true. Bungie remaining independent was always the call of Sony management.
The only thing contractual that could have possibly been a stumbling block would be if Sony had retention agreements with members of Bungie's leadership or its directors that would have resulted in Sony having to pay those individuals money if Sony didn't hold up their end of those agreements. But those wouldn't have prevented Sony from taking control, they would just be a cost Sony had to pay.
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Negotiator101
Member
I think it's a case of becoming too big and having less options because of that. You know coming off Halo 3 they were top 3 developers in the world, they then did Reach and ODST I believe in that order and that was their Halo swansong and they once again gained their independence.
Destiny was meant to be an even better game than Halo but I don't think it ever attained those highs set by Halo 3 (neither did Halo though). I think the Activision partnership was a bad move in the wrong direction and Sony was the final nail in the coffin of the Bungie that set the world on fire with Halo CE.
anthony2690
Member
This is genuinely tiresome at this point.
Grubb has proven himself time and time again, aslong as he doesn't say he speculates his info turns out to be very accurate.
It just feels like when he says something people don't like the sound off, they claim he knows nothing, it's really odd, especially when he probably has one of the best track records.
Bernardougf
Member
Second party is a thing.. if there is a first and a third.. must exist a second right genius ? And thats exactly what they are int his case a second party studio doing a first party/second party game whatever your bias choose.. they are not studios owned by sony and they are not part of the playstation first party studios. As the imput Sony can make I cant proove nothing and neither can you, so we will agree on disagree on this matter. I think sony has much less imput and influence on studios they dont own, you can think differently at your will.Yes, it is. 'PlayStation Studios' is the name of the global game development division of SIE led by Hermen Hulst, it doesn't mean 'studios owned by Sony'.
That's literally how it works as a whole, they have Internal Production and External Production groups, and the SIE producers working on all these games. But the thing is that they all report to Hulst.
Final Fantasy VII Remake? Of course not, since that's a Square Enix produced game. Rise of the Ronin? Yes, it's a Sony produced game, see pic above.
You just have no idea of what you're talking about. But even if second-party games were indeed a thing, they would still fall under PlayStation Studios.
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Starbuck2907
Member
The more Sony invests in live service games and studios, the more it seems like they don’t want to be in the live service business.
I’m surprised that bungie didn’t have a clause letting themselves break up like they did with Microsoft.
I’m surprised that bungie didn’t have a clause letting themselves break up like they did with Microsoft.
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Bernardougf
Member
So what you are saying is that Phil spencer could have made minecraft exclusive anytime he wanted... even though is known that their acquisition contract dosent permit that and there is even an email that he specifically says he "needed/wanted to find a way to make minecraft exclusive but couldn't" .... well.. since I dont have access to bungie contract.. is what they/sony said against what you and other gaf experts said ... right know ill believe in them.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Bungie and Destiny needs saving from themselves.
Herman knows how to run and grow a studio and having been a part of PS through its apocalyptic expansion, there's no doubt he knows how to refocus a studio to start making stuff that people want to play again.
Bungie's studio setup was very non-Playstation. It kinda worked for them for a while after the shitshow of their relationship with Activision, but Bungie being Bungie returned to their normal mess of being completely oblivious to what their customers want, and instead they insisted on pushing political propaganda while farting out aborted pieces of rehashed content that you paid for, they removed, and then brought back with a shiny new coat of paint asking you to cough up again for.
Herman knows how to run and grow a studio and having been a part of PS through its apocalyptic expansion, there's no doubt he knows how to refocus a studio to start making stuff that people want to play again.
Bungie's studio setup was very non-Playstation. It kinda worked for them for a while after the shitshow of their relationship with Activision, but Bungie being Bungie returned to their normal mess of being completely oblivious to what their customers want, and instead they insisted on pushing political propaganda while farting out aborted pieces of rehashed content that you paid for, they removed, and then brought back with a shiny new coat of paint asking you to cough up again for.
It's not that I don't like to hear what he's saying, it's just that nothing about it sounds convincing, or rather, like something that no one else can figure out with the info we already have.
Extremely sound logic right there.
I mean, there is absolutely nothing suggesting that Hulst had less input on Stellar Blade over something like Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart. The only thing we know for sure is that both are PlayStation Studios produced games.
I don't know why there's always some sort of coping regarding this situation, it's like people don't want to admit that the narrative of Hermen Hulst pushing for ugly women in Sony first-party games is completely wrong in every single aspect.
Wishmaster92
Member
Finally. Enough of destiny already Jfc!!!
ReBurn
Gold Member
I don't know what Phil Spencer, Minecraft, or exclusivity has to do with this.
Purchase contracts do not restrict the buyer from exercising ownership rights over the things that they purchase. A better analogy would be you buying a house and the previous owner suing you because you painted it a different color than they wanted it to be. They can't win because they no longer own the house.
The moment Bungie's board and leadership executed the contract to sell they no longer owned controlling interest in Bungie. Bungie as a legal entity fully belonged to Sony. They may have had some equity stake in merged company, such as Sony shares, or they may have had financial parachutes if Sony took over under certain conditions, but there was no longer a separate Bungie legal entity to enforce a contract dispute against Sony.
What are you proposing Bungie could have done based on these mythical contract stipulations?
ZehDon
Member
Reads like Bungie bet the farm on being able to make huge profits off of Destiny 2 after the acquisition and came up snake eyes. After their split from Microsoft, they were run like they couldn't fail - even after failing again, and again, and again. I guess nothing lasts forever.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
That would be soooo fucking sick.
digital_ghost
Gold Member
Destiny Lego game incoming.
Fake
Member
Shape of a ball.
ByWatterson
Member
Dawg that's crazy that the head of Playstation games is running Playstation games.
Gambit2483
Member
Bungie was short-sighted to think they could eat just off of Destiny 2 (comfortably) for this long.
They could have easily put out another project by now that wasn't Marathon. You don't need that many devs for that long just for One looter shooter game and it's DLC updates.
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
Negotiator101, I don’t feel Bungie becoming too big was the problem at all. You even got posters in here using COVID as an excuse for why Bungie is ass today. The truth is probably that Bungie isn’t pulling in no where near the numbers that they use too. That prestige mystique Bungie had is entirely nonexistent today, now these guys have to actually work and earn they keep.
Also, with that reduction in staff how are they even going to meet the needs to produce enough content moving forward if they needed that many people to work on the previous content? Are they abandoning Destiny and moving on to another project?
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
I’d like a Bungie game like Halo CE, 90% focus on the wide-linear single-player and co-op/splitscreen campaign part with a (10%) simple, traditional arena multiplayer reusing environment pieces from the main game. No open-world, no years of expansions and other GaaS bullshit. Remember how to complete a fully self-contained game.
Use classic or new Bungie IP, no Killzone or Horizon expansion. Decima’s the only thing they should be sharing with Guerrilla, if anything.
Use classic or new Bungie IP, no Killzone or Horizon expansion. Decima’s the only thing they should be sharing with Guerrilla, if anything.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Bungie execs ...probably the worst in history
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
They headcount wasn’t even that crazy though, in 2024 that seems expected honestly. Check out some other developers that have way more employees that I imagine is arguably needed to produce content today. I also imagine Bungie probably couldn’t figure out a way to timely transition their staff to their next project; It doesn’t help that Destiny probably wasn’t even generating those numbers man.
