Topher
Identifies as young
I got the plat in SM2 and I left the game thinking this might be the last time I play Spider-man if it is left to Insomniac.
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I got the plat in SM2 and I left the game thinking this might be the last time I play Spider-man if it is left to Insomniac.
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
Thirty7ven
Banned
You're looking at like one or two games like they are the fall of society. You really need to pump those brakes and get some perspective. Which games are you even talking about?
Spiderman 2? Yes. What else? Aloy coming out as gay in a DLC?
Fake
Member
And then you see the time and effort spent on this shite in the OP while stories like this come out later. Everything has a cost.
Marvel’s Spider-Man 2: Developers had a "heated" meeting with Sony; thought they wouldn't meet expectations | LevelUp
Bryan Intihar talks about one of the most challenging moments in developmentwww.levelup.com
Is beyond everything that a game that literaly reuse New York from previous game cost that much. Sony really should step foward and see what is going on.
This is a disastrous bad management. And more funny yet, if wasn't the hacker/leak, Sony would tried to avoid this information at all cost.
Karma is a bitch. I'm super glad this kinda of informations get leak. Besides the personal information with I disagree leaking, the rest is pure gold and tell us the other side that companies try to hide from consumers.
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Hypereides
Member
I hope this is a "hole in the dam" moment. This is absolutely a misguided approach in every way that's being lead by manipulative activists to push extremism. I have a distaste for how this nonsense has manifested in gaming.
Whitecrow
Banned
What a bunch of retards seriously.
Just asking how many white cis kids hated all the Disney and Hollywood female protagonists for not being alpha chads can dismantle all this inclusivity bullshit.
And just realizing something so simple that great characters are defined for what they do and what they overcome, instead of who they are can also dismantle it.
This is the average Insomniac employee (woke infected person for that matter) for you:
Just asking how many white cis kids hated all the Disney and Hollywood female protagonists for not being alpha chads can dismantle all this inclusivity bullshit.
And just realizing something so simple that great characters are defined for what they do and what they overcome, instead of who they are can also dismantle it.
This is the average Insomniac employee (woke infected person for that matter) for you:
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tommib
Banned
As someone who studied film history that drives me particularly insane. Gloria Swanson was fucking running Hollywood in the 20s and starring in everything she could put her hands on (including writing her characters):
Sadie Thompson (film) - Wikipedia
Gloria Swanson - Wikipedia
NekoFever
Member
Congratulations gay men on being so accepted that they’ve been pushed out of the inclusivity tent.
U n i o n 0015
Member
Garbage, that's about all I can add.
Intellectual and cultural garbage.
Intellectual and cultural garbage.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Agreed.
It's much better for a studio like Insomniac to focus on diverse characters, in terms of outward appearance, that are culturally neutral, or whose culture is not a big part of the story. Doing anything more than that ends up killing the suspension of disbelief.
Being of African origin myself and growing up within the culture, it became jarring as fuck when movies and TV shows tried to portray African accents, language, and culture when it was clear they'd done the absolute bare minimum of research. It was much less jarring if those elements were not focused on too much and could be overlooked within the wider flow of the plot. You were able to hold onto your suspension of disbelief more easily.
And for me, I care more about holding onto my suspension of disbelief when I consume entertainment content, than I care about seeing authentic characters and stories from my culture that I can identify with. I've lived that shit every day for decades of my life. I don't want it to be in every piece of entertainment I consume, because entertainment is about seeing and being exposed to other worlds. settings, cultures etc for escapism; not constantly being reminded about how shit my own world, setting, or culture is.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Revisionism and destroying history in all facets, from statues to works of art, to even rewriting it in books is how you usher in and repeat it. You just need people along for the ride by emotionally manipulating their investment in immutable characteristics being such a focal point of their identity.
Banjo64
cumsessed
Spider-Man, TLoU, GoW are the 3 major franchises that have been corrupted by this rot - however it is not the games, it’s the studios. So I’m also talking about Wolverine and whatever slop comes next from ND and SM.
I’m only repeating what’s gone before, people have never had an issue with representation in video games. Lara Croft, Dom (Gears), Samus Aran, Elena (Uncharted), Ellie (TLoU 2013) etc.
What people have an issue with is companies like Insomniac and their terrible writing and tick box approach to ‘diversity and inclusion’ which results in bland (sometimes laughably bad) games.
tommib
Banned
Oh, I know we’ve been kicked out years ago. Anyone working for multinational corps never sees the word gay anywhere anymore. It’s all about queer and the alphabet.
Gay men and women have actually done a lot for themselves in the fucking 80s and 90s to integrate and make society be cool with us. They can also vote for right-wing politics sometimes so they’re problematic and discardable at this point.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
To people clamoring that ND/tlou2 is woke. It's not that. These are the staples I would consider for woke game:
-Characters exist JUST TO BE lgbtq+. No other traits are more important
-Old characters are replaced by those characters
-No traditional male/female roles allowed. At least not purely or if anything straight Man = bad
-Forced diversity
-usually game/character is woke where it absolutely doesn't matter and we don't need to know sexuality or political stances.
-Sweet baby inc - leading in woke writing. Slowly but surely manipulating the population to the point crap like Angrboda or playable atreus is acceptable. Nobody want to spend 2 hours with angrboda or play as atreus.... in gow game.
Some examples
-Saga is mild woke character. She would exist in the story no matter if she is white or black. Although we al know why she is black
-Female Ratchet only exists to have female in there. She has no purpose.
-Pregnant woman on battlefield in TLOU2? not woke. It's an apocalypse and their leader is an idiot. Could be bad writing
-Abby with huge gains in tlou2? not woke. there is a whole reason behind it. There are normal women too
-Trans kid in tlou2? Sure maybe but he serves purpose to show how religious that gang is which cast him away. Could be in any story. Seems believable.
-Characters exist JUST TO BE lgbtq+. No other traits are more important
-Old characters are replaced by those characters
-No traditional male/female roles allowed. At least not purely or if anything straight Man = bad
-Forced diversity
-usually game/character is woke where it absolutely doesn't matter and we don't need to know sexuality or political stances.
-Sweet baby inc - leading in woke writing. Slowly but surely manipulating the population to the point crap like Angrboda or playable atreus is acceptable. Nobody want to spend 2 hours with angrboda or play as atreus.... in gow game.
Some examples
-Saga is mild woke character. She would exist in the story no matter if she is white or black. Although we al know why she is black
-Female Ratchet only exists to have female in there. She has no purpose.
-Pregnant woman on battlefield in TLOU2? not woke. It's an apocalypse and their leader is an idiot. Could be bad writing
-Abby with huge gains in tlou2? not woke. there is a whole reason behind it. There are normal women too
-Trans kid in tlou2? Sure maybe but he serves purpose to show how religious that gang is which cast him away. Could be in any story. Seems believable.
shoplifter
Member
I don't know how much the rest of you know about LGBTQ culture (I'm an expert)
Gambit2483
Member
They have extremely high salaries for the developers. I think I read it was something like an average of $100k+ for the developers. These companies need serious budget management or they risk their own livelihoods. Instead of insanely high salaries maybe high incentive performance bonus programs based on how well it sells?
Banjo64
cumsessed
Please can we all take a moment to laugh at Nadine beating the shit out of Nate and his brother at the same time? That sure made me feel warm and tingly.
TLOU2 might appear woke on the surface but you get the feeling that it's creators were making the game they want to make rather than rattling off a checklist to appease people. There is a difference. Cyberpunk 2077 and Rockstar games are also very diverse but they never appear as if it is being made from some woke checklist.
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Gotta pick and choose which marginalised group matters more
Gay men, trans men, the Jews? Soz fend for yourselves
00_Zer0
Member
Good news on the Manga and Anime front at least, is that Japan is wising up and have stopped using woke western translators from cucking up the translations. The bad news is that they may have to use AI to do it. Is there so many woke people in art and entertainment that Japan can't recruit normal translators that won't cuck up the true meaning?This is why we cannot afford to lose Japan or Japanese games (although they might fall eventually).
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
LOL. That's western gaming for ya. Politics first.
No wonder Insomniac game budgets are rocketing upwards. They cant even make a game without interviewing a ton of non-white people. If you think about it, why not go the extra mile and just hire a ton of non-whites to actually make the game instead of a studio that is probably like 90%+ whities. Which is like almost every western game studio. Every time you see their giant office lobby company photo, it'll be 90%+ whites. Some pics are so one dimensional, you got to get out a magnifying glass and look for the minorities. As for Japanese studios, I'll assume it's probably 99% Japanese people but hard to tell because they dont typically PR a company photo to the the world trying to make their studio look like the friendliest moshpit of people on Earth.
As for diversity in media (not just games, but movies, TV ads, local news at 6 pm etc...), it's a totally calculated hiring process in the US/Canada. I cant speak for other western countries as I dont get exposed to let's say what happens in Austria for example. Funny how you dont get this kind of stuff in books, boardgames, music videos etc...
Isn't it funny how so much media is always pie sliced out like it's 20%, 20%, 20%, 20%, 20% in terms of demographics when in reality most western countries are skewed white. The places with big minority splits are big cities and even then it's probably still 50% white. Toronto is among the most multicultural places on Earth and the demographic split is still about 50% white.
At the end of the day, it's a revenue focus. The reason why game companies do this is because they are hoping to maximize revenue if they can make a product that can get attention from every demographics. And the easiest way is racial/gender background. I dont see forced stuff like ensuring there's enough teenager and senior citizen characters. Nor, spreading out the love where every character is a different religion. And in gaming, you dont see representation between skinny dudes and fatties. Most characters are avg build or hunked up. The US is one of the fattest people on Earth. Where's all the characters and NPCs in open world games where there's tons of fat people? These things are too tough to implement into a game without messing up plot or people's heads. But re-skin some characters (no pun intended) based on race and gender and it's easier to blend in.
Every marketing class will say to focus on target audiences for your product. It's pretty darn hard to make an all-in-one product that everyone loves. You cant be everything to everyone. What you do in that case is make another product. Some gaming companies are trying hard to be that product that caters to every gamer, in which race and gender and sexuality are key drivers for mass acceptance.
No wonder Insomniac game budgets are rocketing upwards. They cant even make a game without interviewing a ton of non-white people. If you think about it, why not go the extra mile and just hire a ton of non-whites to actually make the game instead of a studio that is probably like 90%+ whities. Which is like almost every western game studio. Every time you see their giant office lobby company photo, it'll be 90%+ whites. Some pics are so one dimensional, you got to get out a magnifying glass and look for the minorities. As for Japanese studios, I'll assume it's probably 99% Japanese people but hard to tell because they dont typically PR a company photo to the the world trying to make their studio look like the friendliest moshpit of people on Earth.
As for diversity in media (not just games, but movies, TV ads, local news at 6 pm etc...), it's a totally calculated hiring process in the US/Canada. I cant speak for other western countries as I dont get exposed to let's say what happens in Austria for example. Funny how you dont get this kind of stuff in books, boardgames, music videos etc...
Isn't it funny how so much media is always pie sliced out like it's 20%, 20%, 20%, 20%, 20% in terms of demographics when in reality most western countries are skewed white. The places with big minority splits are big cities and even then it's probably still 50% white. Toronto is among the most multicultural places on Earth and the demographic split is still about 50% white.
At the end of the day, it's a revenue focus. The reason why game companies do this is because they are hoping to maximize revenue if they can make a product that can get attention from every demographics. And the easiest way is racial/gender background. I dont see forced stuff like ensuring there's enough teenager and senior citizen characters. Nor, spreading out the love where every character is a different religion. And in gaming, you dont see representation between skinny dudes and fatties. Most characters are avg build or hunked up. The US is one of the fattest people on Earth. Where's all the characters and NPCs in open world games where there's tons of fat people? These things are too tough to implement into a game without messing up plot or people's heads. But re-skin some characters (no pun intended) based on race and gender and it's easier to blend in.
Every marketing class will say to focus on target audiences for your product. It's pretty darn hard to make an all-in-one product that everyone loves. You cant be everything to everyone. What you do in that case is make another product. Some gaming companies are trying hard to be that product that caters to every gamer, in which race and gender and sexuality are key drivers for mass acceptance.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
I don't agree with TLOU and GOW at all. Honestly people who have a problem with TLOU2 are more than likely bigots, full stop.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
What Xbox games reach the level of woke of TLOU2, Spiderman 2 or Volcano high?
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
She is trained professional.
They are thugs and treasure hunters.
She doesn't even straight up beat them and win the fight lol. it doesn't matter.
But ok she is annoying af
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Banjo64
cumsessed
Oh come on
Banjo64
cumsessed
Nate has a body count of about 2k people and most of them are defeated in hand to hand combat. He’s not some fat arm chair general.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
FTFY
Thirty7ven
Banned
What's the problem? She's in shape, she's trained, she's like a special ops merc. You have a problem with this?
But you don't have a problem with small dudes beating the shit of bigger dudes I bet, or Nathan Drake killing hundreds of trained ex military mercs.
You're just showing your ass now.
tommib
Banned
I agree with this.
I avoided playing it at launch because of the hysteria around it and I thought it was going to be a DEI circus. It’s nowhere near that and it doesn’t come through as insufferable pandering at all. I believe in those characters 100%. It’s just an utterly depressing and hopeless game and story. I understand people having issues with that.
zenspider
Member
The worst part: it seems nobody wants this but the people who are imposing it. Reading the Little Mermaid slide, all the quoted people think the race-swap stuff is nonsense, unnecessary, and harmful. They say "do something new", which has been the NeoGAF consensus solution for "representation" for over a decade now. Insomniac reads it as, "oh, so change it more". NO! Stop deconstructing, stop fixing what ain't broke and MAKE SOMETHING NEW. Christ!
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Thirty7ven
Banned
Oh come on
All the characters feel genuine. It's the only thing you can ask for. It seems like you are more bothered by their existence than how they are presented, which speaks more about you than it does about the characters. You're not really painting yourself in a good light here.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Nate kills 1k people in every game and it's a fourth one so it's at least 4k bodies lol.
It doesn't matter. He is just a lucky dude canonically. You kill thousands not because you are super strong but because it's a video game.
For the same reason, she can kick his ass.
And to be honest - I wouldn't be able to kick her ass
would you ?veterangamerUK
Member
When I watch shit like that
Banjo64
cumsessed
I repeat, she beat BOTH men up at the same time, 2 on 1.
Some of you have been watching too much Marvel content and haven’t got a clue what a relatively fit man could do to the strongest of women with one blow.
Topher
Identifies as young
Yeah.......it is actually very subtle. The subject matter is there, but it isn't in your face and it isn't some contrived bullshit scheme to get it in your head like several instances with Spider-man 2. Had no problem with how it was done.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Fuck me, Asmond went in and totally destroyed those people and insomniac. He is absolutely right. It's all bollix to make money.
If not, prove it and make a stand. If you are including these topics because you want your art to represent that then stand by it.
Flutta
Banned
And we still have people asking
”What do you mean by woke”
”Can you explain what’s woke about this game”
You don’t need this leak to understand what’s going on, but sadly we have people in denial that needs a slap on the face to wake up. Hopefully this leak will do that.
Yeah i’m done with anything Insomniac or any of the western AAA studios that cares more about rhe message than actually wanting to make a good game.
”What do you mean by woke”
”Can you explain what’s woke about this game”
You don’t need this leak to understand what’s going on, but sadly we have people in denial that needs a slap on the face to wake up. Hopefully this leak will do that.
Yeah i’m done with anything Insomniac or any of the western AAA studios that cares more about rhe message than actually wanting to make a good game.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Wonder what else they might fuck up
Mortisfacio
Member
This explains a lot about the Spiderman side quests and changes to some characters.
Also lol @ latinx. My wife is Hispanic and got told by a white lady she's white-washed for saying latinx isn't a thing. I'm just happy my company hasn't forced pronouns in our email sigs.
Also lol @ latinx. My wife is Hispanic and got told by a white lady she's white-washed for saying latinx isn't a thing. I'm just happy my company hasn't forced pronouns in our email sigs.
Bartski
Gold Member
maybe his grandpa was aWonder what else they might fuck up
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Thirty7ven
Banned
Do you have a problem when John Wick beats up ten guys at the same time?
The fact that you are not willing to suspend your disbelief because "women" but are willing to suspend your disbelief when it's a male character isn't a good look.
Banjo64
cumsessed
Just add a ‘yikes read the room’ and you will have achieved the full effect.
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
There's a bit of cringe shit like bigot sandwich but that's about it. Even Lev I thought was a well done implementation, just a bland character.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Read the room? You seem woefully out of touch.
Gambit2483
Member
Wonder what else they might fuck up
Wolverine will explain to Jean how she is such a strong independent woman who he actually needs and can't function/win without.
You then take over as Jean and save the city/world from impending doom. Wolverine then questions his own importance and that maybe Jean is the real hero of the Xmen.
tommib
Banned
I didn’t even notice Lev until I read about it here. It’s a couple of lines that completely pass you by when you’re busy picking up supplies and scissors.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yes. They, going by their fisticuffs history of fighting tons of male mercs and even Brock Lesnar sized merc brutes all around the world, would have grabbed her by her big hair and tossed her around like a ragdoll if not choked her out in seconds. No matter "how trained" she was. In the real world. Since they too have trained experience.And to be honest - I wouldn't be able to kick her ass
But, the game was movie magic/action flic, and we did have Cynthia Rothrock in the 80s. So I have no issue with the girl boss scene, since it's not the real world.
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