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[Shaki12345]

I would argue 60 is basically minimum now and likely will be fully adopted for next gen. I cant recall at the moment any 30fps game i have on ps5 to be honest

Some PS4 games are stuck in 30fps modes like Detroit, Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls, Bloodborne, Walking Dead Definitive Edition, RDR2 and all the Batman games. There's more surely.

I don't understand why developers even put out a 30fps mode. It looks like shit on all modern TV's. It's 2025 for fuck sake.

By the way, the new Dontnod game Lost Records is 30fps on all consoles and still has issues. Absolutely unacceptable imo.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Anybody tried to see what they mean? They also added NXSR on PC, another upscaler which is seemingly more demanding than DLSS and looks worse, so I have no idea what it's for.

Sounds like a new in-house upscaler. I kind of understand why they would do this. Probably a big opportunity to expand in-house tech around upscaling and license it out across China and have it work on non-nvidia cards.

Kind of similar to Sony in having non nvidia solutions are probably going to be key in the future.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Some PS4 games are stuck in 30fps modes like Detroit, Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls, Bloodborne, Walking Dead Definitive Edition, RDR2 and all the Batman games. There's more surely.

I don't understand why developers even put out a 30fps mode. It looks like shit on all modern TV's. It's 2025 for fuck sake.

By the way, the new Dontnod game Lost Records is 30fps on all consoles and still has issues. Absolutely unacceptable imo.

Same reason why TVs at retail are set to vivid mode even though it's terribly oversaturated. It's eye catching and from a distance looks more dynamic.

Trailers look better at 30 fps with higher fidelity graphics. It helps sell the game. I can't remember the last game I played at 30 fps though. I really do wish Sony would go back and patch some of those games, but I get why in some cases that would be difficult and why from a financial aspect they'd rather put out remasters.

The Batman games though could bring Rocksteady some much needed financial boost if they at least patched them to 60.

 

[Gaiff]

Sounds like a new in-house upscaler. I kind of understand why they would do this. Probably a big opportunity to expand in-house tech around upscaling and license it out across China and have it work on non-nvidia cards.

Kind of similar to Sony in having non nvidia solutions are probably going to be key in the future.

Most likely. I'll play around with it later to get a better feel for it. I do wonder why they didn't replace FSR with it on the base PS5, but if my short assessment is correct, it's likely due to performance issues. It seems hardware agnostic at the very least.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Most likely. I'll play around with it later to get a better feel for it. I do wonder why they didn't replace FSR with it on the base PS5, but if my short assessment is correct, it's likely due to performance issues. It seems hardware agnostic at the very least.

If you can do a hardware agnostic upscaler that is 80% as good as DLSS, you can just focus on that and not have to do 5 different kinds of upscalers which probably all require some level of QA.

Yeah, I doubt this is a feasible option for PS5 at least at this point. You still see people using FSR1 instead of FSR3.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Nonsense.
Ff16 plays great as 30fps title as long as you keep motion blur.
Of course 40/120 is way better. But no gatekeeping

30fps is garbage especially on OLED. 40 is trash too.

 

[rofif]

30fps is garbage especially on OLED. 40 is trash too.

Ale nuance goes out of the window because this guy said it’s garbage. We are done here. Years of video games now to be enjoyed on even better tv? Nah. Garbage he said

 

[PicoLordens]

I guess you're not really sensitive to low framerate on OLED. I'm jealous. I played it at a friend's house and had a hard time. Motion blur just masks the issue. If you want motion clarity 60 is the bare minimum. Without motion blur 30 and 40 still don't work as a clean framerate.

For you.

 

[Shaki12345]

For you.

For most people with normal functioning eyes and brains.

 

[Seomel]

Edit:mistake

 

[yogaflame]

30fps is garbage especially on OLED. 40 is trash too.

The SH 2 remake at quality mode even at 30 fps , was fine for me. It was beautiful, stable, and playable. If the game has good IQ , no stutter, and stable 30 fps, I'm okay with that.

 

[Shaki12345]

The SH 2 remake at quality mode even at 30 fps , was fine for me. It was beautiful, stable, and playable. If the game has good IQ , no stutter, and stable 30 fps, I'm okay with that.

What kind of TV do you use? Because I can think of no modern TV that runs a 30fps game without the slideshow effect. These TVs don't exist.

Older LCD models hide the 30fps negatives because of how the frames are presented on the screen. Sample and hold etc.

There are no modern TV'S that run 30fps games without the slideshow effect.

 

[rofif]

What kind of TV do you use? Because I can think of no modern TV that runs a 30fps game without the slideshow effect. These TVs don't exist.

Older LCD models hide the 30fps negatives because of how the frames are presented on the screen. Sample and hold etc.

There are no modern TV'S that run 30fps games without the slideshow effect.

it's not a movie. 30 is kinda fine. it's not 24 fps.
I also finished SH2 on oled and it was great. MOTION BLUR.
Again and again - MOTION BLUR is good.

 

[Shaki12345]

it's not a movie. 30 is kinda fine. it's not 24 fps.
I also finished SH2 on oled and it was great. MOTION BLUR.
Again and again - MOTION BLUR is good.

So you're not sensitive to it. That's ok mate. 30 is kinda fine if you're not sensitive to it. Most people are.

I played Tears of the Kingdom on a OLED and because the game is so damn great I could live with it. I just looked right past it and was absorbed in it's world. That's just how fucking great Nintendo is. But, there is no other game or experience that could do that and I still noticed it a lot of the times.

The constant jittering and ghosting when moving the camera is just horribly distracting. There's no reason to prefer it over a higher framerate. Our eyes, naturally, have a better experience when the framerate is higher.

You cannot compare games to movies. Games are interactive and there is a lot of motion. Much more than in movies. During panning shots in 24p there's also judder. My LG C2 has a FANTASTIC option in the menu that keeps the integrity of 24p but makes the judder go away without a soap opera effect. This functionality is called Cinematic Movement and I use it for all 24p content. HDTVTEST even recommends this function over native 24p. If I turn it off, I can get used to it, but it will never ever be a better experience.

Don't forget, movies are only 24p because back in the old days that was the cheapest framerate to sell motion because film was and is expensive as F. Sure, we got used to it, but if we started at 30 all those years ago nobody would have ever said "let's go to 24p".

 

[rofif]

So you're not sensitive to it. That's ok mate. 30 is kinda fine if you're not sensitive to it. Most people are.

I played Tears of the Kingdom on a OLED and because the game is so damn great I could live with it. I just looked right past it and was absorbed in it's world. That's just how fucking great Nintendo is. But, there is no other game or experience that could do that and I still noticed it a lot of the times.

The constant jittering and ghosting when moving the camera is just horribly distracting. There's no reason to prefer it over a higher framerate. Our eyes, naturally, have a better experience when the framerate is higher.

You cannot compare games to movies. Games are interactive and there is a lot of motion. Much more than in movies. During panning shots in 24p there's also judder. My LG C2 has a FANTASTIC option in the menu that keeps the integrity of 24p but makes the judder go away without a soap opera effect. This functionality is called Cinematic Movement and I use it for all 24p content. HDTVTEST even recommends this function over native 24p. If I turn it off, I can get used to it, but it will never ever be a better experience.

Don't forget, movies are only 24p because back in the old days that was the cheapest framerate to sell motion because film was and is expensive as F. Sure, we got used to it, but if we started at 30 all those ago nobody would have ever said "let's go to 24p".

I know what are you talking about.
It's why I wish movies were 30fps and not 24. The slow panning shots suck if you watch movies on oled in windows withotu 120hz pulldown etc.
I KNOW. That's why the remedies.
But even ff7 rebirth, I finished the whole thing in quality 30fps mode and it does not have camera motion blur and I sit right in front of my pc/tv.
Not as good as ff16 to look at but still - got used to it.

I don't believe there is something as "being sensitive to it". I play games for 30 years man. On every device and display type. these oleds now are better than crt was. It's this good.
30 "can" be ok even if it's not ideal. 40 is already good. If only movies were 40fps

 

[Lagspike_exe]

BLOPS6 PSSR implementation has been drastically improved. No more white noise / very obvious specular flicker. Looking really top-notch now in terms of IQ.

 

[TGO]

What kind of TV do you use? Because I can think of no modern TV that runs a 30fps game without the slideshow effect. These TVs don't exist.

Older LCD models hide the 30fps negatives because of how the frames are presented on the screen. Sample and hold etc.

There are no modern TV'S that run 30fps games without the slideshow effect.

70% of the games I play are at 30fps by choice.
And my TV is 2020 model so not sure what you mean by modern.
And I'm very sensitive to framerates, even films I can sense when it's off by 5fps, sounds like you've conditioned yourself to only except high Frames.
Games & Films aren't the same but if you was really sensitive to it you wouldn't be able to watch a film or TV either.
It's not the Fps count, it is how it's implemented and the final result you see.
Some games can have an unnatural looking 60fps just like 30fps can look choppy.
On PC(when I actually used them) anything below 60fps looked choppy.
But that wasn't the framerate, just how it was being displayed
The problem is I think you're actually looking for the unnatural high framerate look as a benchmark of how it should look.
Just like those people uploading 60fps versions of films & Music Videos saying it looks real now, when it doesn't, it looks fake and unnatural and you've gain a preference for that.
The main difference and the only one that matters is response time.
And being 60fps doesn't always guarantee that either.

 

[omegasc]

What the hell does a terrain not performing correctly mean lol?

I guess the terrain is not... terraining

 

[owandeseis]

Idk how can someone say he's sensitive to FPS and play 30 FPS by choice, or say it's good.

In Rebirth which is mentioned here, when i saw how blurry it was i said to myself that this one would be the first game i choose 30 FPS on, well as soon as i got to the open world after NIbelheim i had to change back because the amount of clarity you lose from one mode to other in movement is huge, i found the Quality mode to be way worse even if it's image quality was much more clear.

And it's fine, just like some people don't notice almost any difference between Xbox Series S and PS5-XSX versions of the games, or i don't notice some graphic errors Digital Foundry finds sometimes.

But there's no good 30 FPS mode for any person that's sensible to framerate ( or wants a good motion clarity), not even 40 FPS, no matter the motion blur or anything used, if it's a game that requires you to move the camera with the right stick a lot, anything under 60FPS is tough, and maybe hot take but in several games, 60 FPS is not great either, it's good in most games, but not enough in many others, the motion clarity difference from 60 FPS to 90-120 FPS is very big.

 

[Shaki12345]

Idk how can someone say he's sensitive to FPS and play 30 FPS by choice, or say it's good.

In Rebirth which is mentioned here, when i saw how blurry it was i said to myself that this one would be the first game i choose 30 FPS on, well as soon as i got to the open world after NIbelheim i had to change back because the amount of clarity you lose from one mode to other in movement is huge, i found the Quality mode to be way worse even if it's image quality was much more clear.

And it's fine, just like some people don't notice almost any difference between Xbox Series S and PS5-XSX versions of the games, or i don't notice some graphic errors Digital Foundry finds sometimes.

But there's no good 30 FPS mode for any person that's sensible to framerate ( or wants a good motion clarity), not even 40 FPS, no matter the motion blur or anything used, if it's a game that requires you to move the camera with the right stick a lot, anything under 60FPS is tough, and maybe hot take but in several games, 60 FPS is not great either, it's good in most games, but not enough in many others, the motion clarity difference from 60 FPS to 90-120 FPS is very big.

Some people just like vaseline bro.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

30fps is just unbearable in this generation, if gta6 only offers 30fps mode I'll pass without any hesitation.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

and it's really dumb for game companies to optimize their games around 30fps mode since about 70% of the people would choose 60fps mode. they should build their games around 60fps, then add more effects etc for the 30fps.

 

[Shaki12345]

30fps is just unbearable in this generation, if gta6 only offers 30fps mode I'll pass without any hesitation.

I'll even pass at 40. Everything below 60 should be punishable by law.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

I'll even pass at 40. Everything below 60 should be punishable by law.

to me 40 is acceptable, but 30 hell no

 

[Shaki12345]

and it's really dumb for game companies to optimize their games around 30fps mode since about 70% of the people would choose 60fps mode. they should build their games around 60fps, then add more effects etc for the 30fps.

How about making everything 60 and 120 when possible.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

How about making everything 60 and 120 when possible.

doesn't seem plausible with consoles of this generation

 

[Shaki12345]

doesn't seem plausible with consoles of this generation

You mean the developers of this generation?

 

[MazingerDUDE]

You mean the developers of this generation?

imo, making a 120fps game with raw processing power is a waste, we need them fake frames for the 120, and hopefully ps6 will have the hardware for it

 

[Lagspike_exe]

BLOPS6 PSSR implementation has been drastically improved. No more white noise / very obvious specular flicker. Looking really top-notch now in terms of IQ.

EDIT: Still some white noise left, but it's quite a bit better.

 

[rofif]

How about making everything 60 and 120 when possible.

Good start would be 120hz container always. Even for 30fps games. Especially even

 

[Shaki12345]

imo, making a 120fps game with raw processing power is a waste, we need them fake frames for the 120, and hopefully ps6 will have the hardware for it

Every game this generation should and could run at at least 60fps. If developers can't make it run at 60 then it's on them, not on the power of the consoles. PS5 PRO shouldn't even be necessary for 60fps ffs.

 

[rofif]

Every game this generation should and could run at at least 60fps. If developers can't make it run at 60 then it's on them, not on the power of the consoles. PS5 PRO shouldn't even be necessary for 60fps ffs.

I mean. Games could always be 60fps. No reason uncharted 4 or tlou2 couldn’t be 60 on ps4 but they wouldn’t look this good.

But now we have better cpu and tons of scaling options. Should be easier

 

[Gaiff]

Every game this generation should and could run at at least 60fps. If developers can't make it run at 60 then it's on them, not on the power of the consoles. PS5 PRO shouldn't even be necessary for 60fps ffs.

Then you’re sacrificing visuals or IQ. Often, it’s both.

 

[TGO]

Good start would be 120hz container always. Even for 30fps games. Especially even

You know most don't know the difference between 120hz Vs 120fps and think it's the same thing.
A higher refresh rate will improve image clarity even on 30fps like you suggest.

 

[Shaki12345]

I mean. Games could always be 60fps. No reason uncharted 4 or tlou2 couldn’t be 60 on ps4 but they wouldn’t look this good.

But now we have better cpu and tons of scaling options. Should be easier

That was my original point. Who cares about fidelity if the game looks like shit or vaseline in motion.

 

[Shaki12345]

Then you’re sacrificing visuals or IQ. Often, it’s both.

Fine by me. If the game can't run at 60 then it isn't worth playing on modern TV's. Who cares about IQ if the game looks horrible in motion (all sub 60fps games).

 

[TGO]

That was my original point. Who cares about fidelity if the game looks like shit or vaseline in motion.

Which is funny because up until the PS5 Pro, most performance modes you 60fps purist play on do actually look like shit and vaseline due to the low resolution.
But it's smooth vaseline.
We want 60fps but not at that cost.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

Every game this generation should and could run at at least 60fps. If developers can't make it run at 60 then it's on them, not on the power of the consoles. PS5 PRO shouldn't even be necessary for 60fps ffs.

about 99% of the games do run at 60fps this generation, however in most cases their base version is the 30fps mode and they just cut corners until their game runs 60fps resulting games with severe iq problem and other visual glitches. they should make games to run 60fps ground up then make the 30fps version out of it, not the other way around.

 

[Shaki12345]

Which is funny because up until the PS5 Pro, most performance modes you 60fps purist play on do actually look like shit and vaseline due to the low resolution.
But it's smooth vaseline.
We want 60fps but not at that cost.

Obviously we all want a clear 60fps. But a muddier 60fps is always better than whatever at 30fps on a OLED.

 

[TGO]

Obviously we all want a clear 60fps. But a muddier 60fps is always better than whatever at 30fps on a OLED.

I'm sorry, due to the things I heard about OLED I went for a FALED TV, I don't see what you unfortunately see.
So it's something I don't personally experience.
Just like people complaining the new TR Remastered Trilogy is too dark
It's bright to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not accurate representation of the colours, but you get the idea

 

[TehGoomba7s]

Same reason why TVs at retail are set to vivid mode even though it's terribly oversaturated. It's eye catching and from a distance looks more dynamic.

Trailers look better at 30 fps with higher fidelity graphics. It helps sell the game. I can't remember the last game I played at 30 fps though. I really do wish Sony would go back and patch some of those games, but I get why in some cases that would be difficult and why from a financial aspect they'd rather put out remasters.

The Batman games though could bring Rocksteady some much needed financial boost if they at least patched them to 60.

The looks better at 30fps for trailers is one of the biggest myths going. You give someone a game in 30fps and then show them it in 60fps right after there's a very clear winner. 30fps is only good for screenshots.

 

[emivita]

I'm sorry, due to the things I heard about OLED I went for a FALED TV, I don't see what you unfortunately see.
So it's something I don't personally experience.
Just like people complaining the new TR Remastered Trilogy is too dark
It's bright to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not accurate representation of the colours, but you get the idea

I have a A-tier 2018 FALED TV and also I never had issues with TR remastered being too dark. So I've always wondered if OLED blacks were the culprits somehow.

I got the PS5 Pro at launch and don't have any intention to upgrade to an OLED TV because of this and other inherent issues.

 

[Shaki12345]

I have a A-tier 2018 FALED TV and also I never had issues with TR remastered being too dark. So I've always wondered if OLED blacks were the culprits somehow.

I got the PS5 Pro at launch and don't have any intention to upgrade to an OLED TV because of this and other inherent issues.

OLED + PS5 PRO is match made in heaven, but only when you play in 40fps+.

 

[TGO]

I have a A-tier 2018 FALED TV and also I never had issues with TR remastered being too dark. So I've always wondered if OLED blacks were the culprits somehow.

I got the PS5 Pro at launch and don't have any intention to upgrade to an OLED TV because of this and other inherent issues.

Nah the Blacks are fantastic on a OLED and you don't get blooming and colours are pin sharp.
But they can appear dim in comparison.
But I could put the batman symbol on my TV and use it as a Batsign.
When they released the Demo for Forspoken and fucked up the HDR the title screen was imprinted in my eyeballs for days..

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Nah the Blacks are fantastic on a OLED and you don't get blooming and colours are pin sharp.
But they can appear dim in comparison.
But I could put the batman symbol on my TV and use it as a Batsign.
When they released the Demo for Forspoken and fucked up the HDR the title screen was imprinted in my eyeballs for days..

I have S95C, 2nd gen QD-OLED. I can assure you, they are no longer dim. At full blast, they are uncomfortablly bright in dark. In light, they are more than bright enough.

 

[Gaiff]

I have S95C, 2nd gen QD-OLED. I can assure you, they are no longer dim. At full blast, they are uncomfortablly bright in dark. In light, they are more than bright enough.

Yeah, I have the S90D and it gets plenty bright. Unless you wanna go blind, going anywhere near the peak brightness is too much.

 

[Radical_3d]

Yeah, I have the S90D and it gets plenty bright. Unless you wanna go blind, going anywhere near the peak brightness is too much.

I have the S95C with the overhaul to 2.100 nits and it’s still not enough. You guys living in the rich dark northern countries don’t understand how bright is a living room in the south.

 

[NomenNescio]

You know most don't know the difference between 120hz Vs 120fps and think it's the same thing.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I have the S95C with the overhaul to 2.100 nits and it’s still not enough. You guys living in the rich dark northern countries don’t understand how bright is a living room in the south.

Why did they get an OLED? Tbh, if I had a very bright room, I'd just get a top of the line LCD with insane brightness instead.

 

[Radical_3d]

Why did they get an OLED? Tbh, if I had a very bright room, I'd just get a top of the line LCD with insane brightness instead.

For motion clarity. That one video from Vincent about how OLEDs did a better job on refreshing the image convinced me. LDCs are getting better at it every year and in terms of blacks Mini LED are already at something I can’t distinguish. I doubt my next TV will be an OLED.