Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Well, LtWolf, maybe we should just call it Loopin the Thrid at this point. Everyone can agree on that, I hope.
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Lupin III - "The Woman Called Fujiko Mine" |OT| HARD & DANGEROUS
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Lupin the Third
Member
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
I'm sorry but, I really don't understand what you're saying here. In fact, I don't even know how to debate this point because it literally makes no sense to me. His name in Japanese is ルパン and that is pronounce rupan. There are no extended vowels otherwise it would be written ルパーン which would be pronounced rupaan. Any non-extended vowel is a short vowel. This is why something like アスカ (asuka) is pronounced aska instead of asooka, because a short u is almost silent. If it was pronounced pawn, they would have called him rupon in Japanese.
Lupin the Third
Member
Walk up to an average American and ask him to pronounce this:
"Pan."
Then ask how to pronounce this:
"Pawn."
That's the difference I was trying to convey.
"Pawn" more accurately conveysin Englishthe long "a" sound used in Japanese. If we're literally talking romaji-only, then "ru-pan" would do it. But people don't always read Japanese in romaji form and know exactly how the language works (see: everyone pronouncing "anime" with a short "a" sound up front). That's why I wrote it out the way I did. Apparently all I did was confuse people.
Dragoon: read my edit rationale.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Should I call Jigen you know, Jiggin'?
Really, though, we're just bored enough to talk about this until we get to talk about shadows again.
Really, though, we're just bored enough to talk about this until we get to talk about shadows again.
Walk up to an average American and ask him to pronounce this:
"Pan."
Then ask how to pronounce this:
"Pawn."
That's the difference I was trying to convey.
"Pawn" more accurately conveysin Englishthe long "a" sound used in Japanese. If we're literally talking romaji-only, then "ru-pan" would do it. But people don't always read Japanese in romaji form and know exactly how the language works (see: everyone pronouncing "anime" with a short "a" sound up front). That's why I wrote it out the way I did. Apparently all I did was confuse people.
Dragoon: read my edit rationale.
I still don't understand. If you're talking about English words, pan is pronounced like pen, and pawn is pronounce like pon. Neither conveys remotely how a Japanese "pan" is pronounced. You're only making it even more confusing.
Lupin the Third
Member
Why wait? Outside of like one overdone shot per episode, I think the shadows are a great effect.
(Sigh...you listened to that podcast, didn't you?)
jett:
Lupin is a French name and SHOULD be similar to "Loo-PAN," but
a) it sounds awful (that nasally French thing is obnoxious)
and b) Lupin the Third is a Japanese creation, not a French one. (Do we call Westernized futons 'foo-TONEs?" Do people with names of foreign heritages always call themselves by their native pronunciation?).
I'm not 100% against the idea of him being pronounced after the French model (the Toho "Mamo" dub used it a few times), but let's be honest with ourselves: "loo-PAWN" (rhymes with "lawn") just sounds better than "loo-PAN" (like in "frying pan").
This is the weirdest linguistic discussion ever. I don't understand why you keep using words which sound nothing like it to describe it. If anything, I would say the Japanese -pan is closest to how you would pronounce -parn in English. Not pan, not pawn, not poon, not panadanaran.
Sickboy007
Member
Lupin the Third
Member
So you're telling me the English word "pan" sounds like the English word "pen"? That the Japanese "a" sound resembles the "a" in "far" (or "-parn," in your example) more than the "a" in "father?" (EDIT: on listening to myself say "far," "parn" and "father" several times over, I can see a stronger similarity.) I do not follow your counter-argument at all.
I'm not saying my choice of examples was best, nor am I professing to be either a master of either English or Japanese, nor an expert in language and pronunciation as a whole. We must be missing each other's boat somewhere in this conversation because I do not understand where you're coming from either.
This pronunciation I would write as "loo-PEN." Am I crazy?
http://www.funimation.com/lupin-the-third-fujiko-mine
Funimaton are officially streaming the series now. New episodes appear every Friday on 12:30 PM EST.
Funimaton are officially streaming the series now. New episodes appear every Friday on 12:30 PM EST.
I shouldn't dig out old discussions but shadows were better? The shadows do bring personality but sometimes it doesn't fit at all and feels slapped on just for the sake of it.
Since I forgot all about the Lupin OT, I'll repost my impressions from the general anime thread:
Lupin the Third: Mine Fujiko to Iu Onna 2
The almost crayon-like shadowing of the characters and scenes certainly bring an interesting touch. It feels like a storybook or drawing at times. I noticed crosshatching was pretty common this episode for some reason. It does bring more depth to the visuals though so I'm ok with it. The crayon-like shadowing and the crosshatching makes the visuals a bit rough at times but it still looks refined at the same time.
I liked the shadowing when it was used as
Ciccolina stepped up to face Fujiko at the casino
Jigen
However, they do go overboard with the shadowing way too much. It just seems distracting and obscures some of the action going on. There's a problem when I can't see half the shit that's on the screen.
Half the screen is covered by the shadows for what exact reason? To clearly segregate the pair in the middle as the center of attention? You already partly achieved that with the positioning of th characters. I just can't accept this artistic decision. Use shadowing with moderation and self restraint, please.
Story-wise, it focused a bit more on
Jigen
Lupin the Third
Member
Obviously he is using words that sound vastly different depending on accents.
Don-Dawn, argument basically.
Your pen and pon thing confuses me even further as a non-native english speaker.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Only two instances in this new episode that felt out-of-place and nowhere near as bad as it was in parts of the first episode (both the example you posted and the scene between the Italian Hulk and Ciccolina over her affair had either unnecessary and oddly-obtrusive shadowing and/or bad blending). Elsewhere, it works really well and enhances the rough, comic-book feel of the whole show.
Dude, let me post my impressions before we argue. :|
Lupin the Third
Member
I think I mentioned earlier in the thread that the shadows are a great effect, but there's always one shot where it's blatant overkill or poorly executed (3/4 view of Fujiko on the bike in Ep 1). Episode 2 is no different.
Did anyone complaining about the shadows ever see the original manga? It is sketchy and messy as all heck for everything. It is consistent with that presentation. That being said, everyone will see things through their own goggles, so it's all subjective anyway.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
I guess it can't be helped. The whole production is going to feel inconsistent at times, if only due to the different staff leading each episode, and Takeshi's visual style is hard to make work with contemporary budgeting and technical vision. But this show's doing an amazing job of juggling different visual subtleties into one cohesive package, and I can forgive the staff for a gaffe or two. When your storyboarding is top-class, as is the music and script-writing, it's really easy to notice when things do go wrong, and they rarely did in this recent episode. Even the preceding episode rarely screwed up overall, aside form more obvious badly-executed shadowing.
Oh sorry. I'll let you post your impressions first.
True, I'm personally fine with the shadows if they're used correctly. It's just a find at least one or two moments that just break the immersion with either too much shadowing or it feels slapped on for the sake of it. They're utilising a great technique to augment the visuals but they have to moderate their use of it, instead of feeling obligated to put liberal amounts of it on each frame.
I agree that the inconsistency's pretty unavoidable, especially with Koike's elaborate visual direction. /XX/ mentioned in the main anime thread about someone working at the studio for incredibly long hours due to the long preproduction too. That could compromise the quality as well. here's the post
Eheh. Used to watch it constantly after school on Italia 1 when I was younger.
I'll always pronounce Lupin's name as Lupèn for that reason.
Watched the first 2 episodes,
I am quite liking the serious tone and the general mood conveyed by the art.
Let's hope it keeps this quality until the end...
Ghost_Protocol
Member
2nd episode was much better than the first. Hope it keeps up.
Lupin the Third
Member
Jex
Member
Haha, must be pretty tough going from Redline and having years to make your project into the realities of TV animation production.
Lupin the Third
Member
Something I've been considering is that maybe the series was supposed to look different than it ended up being.
Bouncing off of /XX/'s post linked earlier (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36764228&postcount=11164), whose source is the same French artist as the poster I linked to, said that "the pre-production for the series was very long, and now because of that they are trying to keep in-check for the coming deadlines until the end of June."
I wonder if the series was originally supposed to look different. Remember the series was originally announced to start in the Fall. Could the series preproduction work have been scrapped and started over from scratch at some point?
Case in point: in October, Heiwa commissioned a new Lupin slot machine with character designs by Takeshi Koike. (Trailer: http://youtu.be/uihbY1IiaJw) The designs are a fair bit different from the new series', particularly for Lupin and Fujiko. The reasons I think these two were intended to be connected are:
1) Koike character designs
2) Release dates were both supposed to be by year's end 2011
3) Unusually strong focus on Fujiko
Could the TV series have originally been meant to look like the slot machine, and then been changed to the more Monkey Punch-ish look before production began?
Bouncing off of /XX/'s post linked earlier (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36764228&postcount=11164), whose source is the same French artist as the poster I linked to, said that "the pre-production for the series was very long, and now because of that they are trying to keep in-check for the coming deadlines until the end of June."
I wonder if the series was originally supposed to look different. Remember the series was originally announced to start in the Fall. Could the series preproduction work have been scrapped and started over from scratch at some point?
Case in point: in October, Heiwa commissioned a new Lupin slot machine with character designs by Takeshi Koike. (Trailer: http://youtu.be/uihbY1IiaJw) The designs are a fair bit different from the new series', particularly for Lupin and Fujiko. The reasons I think these two were intended to be connected are:
1) Koike character designs
2) Release dates were both supposed to be by year's end 2011
3) Unusually strong focus on Fujiko
Could the TV series have originally been meant to look like the slot machine, and then been changed to the more Monkey Punch-ish look before production began?
PdotMichael
Banned
not overstyled enough?
It would be better if they would reduce some of the cheap shadow effects and add more animationsframes for the blu-ray release.
It would be better if they would reduce some of the cheap shadow effects and add more animationsframes for the blu-ray release.
Loo-PAN is how we would pronounced the name it in any latin language including French which is where the name came from.
Edit: Brain fart.
What? No? "Lupin" is not pronounced "Loo-PAWN" in French. It's "Loo-pan".
Have a trailer for an Arsene Lupin film in French (about 47 seconds in). Listen to them pronounce "Arsene Lupin". It's not "PAWN", in American or British English. It's like British "pan", or French "pain". It's almost exactly the same sound - crazily enough! (note sarcasm) - as the パン in ルパン, the katakana spelling of his name.
(edit: you've corrected it now, sorry for being rude, just amazed at how many people in the thread are arguing about the pronunciation when you can just check the spelling or listen to it on Youtube!)
My bad, meant Loo-pan. In spanish that's how we also pronounced it. Read Loo-Pawn as Loo-Pan in my head.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Even in French in would pretty much be loo-pan.. But with a less pronounced "n". Your toungue doesn't actually touch the roof of your mouth like in an English "n" sound (or for that matter, a Japanese "ん" sound).
Lupin the Third
Member
Okay, Okay, I get it. I get it.
Everyone's thinking by "pawn" I'm pronouncing it a more British-English way, like this: http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=pawn&submit=Submit
But that's now how I say or hear "pawn." I say "pawn" like both of these people do:
http://www.forvo.com/word/pawn/
In short, my example was not very universal. Hopefully this clears up a lot.
Edit: I've updated my original post to include the examples in context: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36922505&postcount=299
Everyone's thinking by "pawn" I'm pronouncing it a more British-English way, like this: http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=pawn&submit=Submit
But that's now how I say or hear "pawn." I say "pawn" like both of these people do:
http://www.forvo.com/word/pawn/
In short, my example was not very universal. Hopefully this clears up a lot.
Edit: I've updated my original post to include the examples in context: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36922505&postcount=299
checkeredknight
Member
Oh... I wasn't even aware this thread existed. :X
I pronounce the name as in the Geneon dub, "Loo-Pan." A friend of mine, despite knowing that LooPan is supposedly the "correct" pronunciation still says "Loo-Pin." I'd guess it's because it just feels more natural to say it that way.
Hmm. I wonder what their problem was with Episode 2? Personally, I thought it was fantastic. I can't imagine what it'd be like after them re-arranging it. It's great as it is IMO.
My second favourite anime. Have you ever seen the 1980's TV series? It's excellent, I preferred it much more than the movie.
I pronounce the name as in the Geneon dub, "Loo-Pan." A friend of mine, despite knowing that LooPan is supposedly the "correct" pronunciation still says "Loo-Pin." I'd guess it's because it just feels more natural to say it that way.
Hmm. I wonder what their problem was with Episode 2? Personally, I thought it was fantastic. I can't imagine what it'd be like after them re-arranging it. It's great as it is IMO.
My second favourite anime. Have you ever seen the 1980's TV series? It's excellent, I preferred it much more than the movie.
Loop-in, it's easiest and honestly, we know who're we talking about anyway.
Envelope's opinions closely match my own, as usual.
That's pretty interesting. I wonder what Koike's original vision would have been like. I may dislike the use of heavy shadows/shading sometimes but I do admit it brings a lot more style and depth to the visuals at certain parts.
Envelope's opinions closely match my own, as usual.
Unless it's Cowboy Bebop, our similarities end there
That's pretty interesting. I wonder what Koike's original vision would have been like. I may dislike the use of heavy shadows/shading sometimes but I do admit it brings a lot more style and depth to the visuals at certain parts.
Are you pumped for Goemon next week?
hellz yeah
Fuck; I meant to say 6. Anyway, I guess it's good that episode 6 is far away.
Gotta give Nakamura some time to finish it.
What if episode 5 is actually a episode storyboarded by Koike?
Or Hiramatsu!
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