Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
There's a modern deck that plays burning tree emissaries and reckless bushwacker. It's awful but when it works it's quite funny.
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Magic: the Gathering |OT8| Eldritch Moon - It's only a paper (and digital) moon
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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There's a modern deck that plays burning tree emissaries and reckless bushwacker. It's awful but when it works it's quite funny.
Would straight up Miscalculation with no cycling or scrying be too good for standard?
Maybe. I'm not sure they want 8 Mana Leaks in Modern is the larger issue.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
This is all the good parts of Dissolve and Mana Leak put together lol
I don't think there's a printable card any more that has "Counter target spell" on it for 1U unless its straight-up 2CMC Force Spike (e.g. unrevealed Silumgar's Scorn). Almost everything we've seen at 2 CMC is a conditional counter not just in whether you can pay something to avoid it but what types of spells it will counter.
Scry 1 is like drawing half a card. So yes.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That's just functionally Counterspell and its Mana Leak 5-8 in Modern. The average CMC of a Standard deck is considerably higher than Modern, so you're far less likely to be able to pay it even later in the game.
SigmasonicX
Member
The most direct comparisons are Runeboggle and Mana Leak.
The former is considered weak while the latter is considered too strong for Standard. I'm thinking the (2) spell tax puts it too close in power to Mana Leak. Perhaps if the tax got changed to (1) and the cost was changed to UU, they would have printed that.
I had those in mind. UU seems a bit too restrictive in my opinion, given that you would pay 2UU to draw a card and tax a spell by 2 (or 1). I think it would have been fine to push the design space there a bit.
I also thought of Rune Snag, which is a fine counterspell (and better in some cases), whereas this one provides some card draw.
I also thought of Rune Snag, which is a fine counterspell (and better in some cases), whereas this one provides some card draw.
cooltrainer
Member
Rune Snag already exists in Modern and no one plays it as "Mana Leak 5-8"
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Dismiss has been deemed to good as well and taxing, even just 2, means just that early game.
Just in case
and this is what is acceptable now.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's true that Mana Leak isn't that good even in Modern, but adding Scry 1 onto it makes it probably better than Mana Leak.
The problem with Dismiss is that it is also playable in late game and that you cannot play around it, whereas a spell that taxes at 2 is already avoidable for many spells as soon as you reach four mana.
I think they could have gotten away with the card, but who knows? I'm sure they did plenty of testing.
I'm assuming you are talking about the bushwhacker zoo variant that also uses one drops like Experiment One, Vexing Devil, Goblin Guide etc? It's not awful in the least.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Maybe if it was
UU
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 2.
If that spell gets countered this way Investigate.
Otherwise at the worst you'll just be able to replace it in the late game.
was referring to the combo, it's good when you get out a couple of them in a turn plus the bushwacker but it doesn't happen particularly consistently. Awful was the wrong word, the combo is cute.
The problem with "tax" counterspells is that they punish big spell decks, which they don't want to do.
Sure, but it's significantly weaker in other cases. Again, it was just a random thought for a good enough counterspell. I don't think this card would have ruined Standard, but it could have been a helpful tool for something resembling more traditional control decks. You need *some* flexibility for counterspells to be playable.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Even Remand is considered way over the line in Standard and its the least feelbad counterspell this side of Unsubstantiate.
I don't think they're going to print a 2 mana spell that counters any spell any time soon unless it looks a lot like Silumgar's Scorn.
I don't think they're going to print a 2 mana spell that counters any spell any time soon unless it looks a lot like Silumgar's Scorn.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It would basically just be a U/W version of Faeries with a bunch of cards that do adequate impressions of Fae cards in Standard right now.
Joe Molotov
Member
Better go ahead and reprint Vendilion Clique too.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
If you already assembled it then go
Or if they don't want to ruin Standard they could just unban SFM, JTMS and Jitte in Modern. They can unban BBE, Eye of Ugin and Deathrite Shaman too to make it more fair. Part of me just wants to see how broken Modern Caw-Blade would be with all the extra control additions.
Plz stop polluting the thread with designs of cards that are strictly worse than Counterspell or Mana Leak in every way.If you must get your card design on, at least try to make them interesting in some fashion. Unsubstantiate is worse than Remand but its not just strictly worse which makes it an interesting design.
The problem with Remand is that it is a very efficient tempo card with immediate cantrip, no? Remand would probably be fine in the current Standard though.
Fuck Blue. Give me Red!
charlequin
Banned
The issue here, I think, is that if a 4-mana wrath environment is diverse it's gonna be primarily between control decks, disruption decks, and then ultra-consistent high-speed aggro as the only kind of creature deck that can really compete against them. They want creature decks to run multiple colors and CMCs up to at least 4, and that isn't gonna happen in 4-mana wrath land.
lol that would be the all-time best 1U counterspell
This is also why we've gotten more counters that hit bands of CMC like Disdainful Stroke and Horribly Awry, I'd think.
I think this has more to do with what kind of decks Remand enables than anything else.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
They should just not print any more counter spells. Easy solution.
But according to Saffron Olive that would be the end of control in standard :O /s
A Serious Man
Member
UU
As an additional cost, discard a card.
Counter target spell.
As an additional cost, discard a card.
Counter target spell.
Grumpy and venting, apologies
I drafted a sickkkkk w/u EMN deck. Bombs and synergy man. amazing
So hyped.
Fucking pc decides to do a mandatory update.
Now my deck is fucked. I have to concede each game to sideboard a real deck out of the 80 lands etc it put in mine.
So I lose against the first guy even tho I could have beaten him BC concede and I have no time on my clock.
Second round I get a bye.
I kind of want to drop and start again but. Just going to play hearthstone for an hour and than concede and try to win the next two games so I can at least get a couple packs out of this disaster.
Destroyed my Friday night. My fault for not noticing some stupid update was going to happen.
I drafted a sickkkkk w/u EMN deck. Bombs and synergy man. amazing
So hyped.
Fucking pc decides to do a mandatory update.
Now my deck is fucked. I have to concede each game to sideboard a real deck out of the 80 lands etc it put in mine.
So I lose against the first guy even tho I could have beaten him BC concede and I have no time on my clock.
Second round I get a bye.
I kind of want to drop and start again but. Just going to play hearthstone for an hour and than concede and try to win the next two games so I can at least get a couple packs out of this disaster.
Destroyed my Friday night. My fault for not noticing some stupid update was going to happen.
cooltrainer
Member
Man I am pumped for Kaladesh. I feel like this is gonna be a set where red gets some really interesting stuff, unlike most recent sets. A lot of things from Origins hinted at artifact crafting and things like that. Red is one of my favorite colors but it always seems to get safe designs and it's range of abilities seems so limited nowadays.
What I really want from Kaladesh besides a broken artifact creature is a UR artifact card, legend or sorcery or whatever, that's super pushed. UR/Grixis artifacts is a super fun cube archetype but none of the good Izzet cards are dedicated to it. Dack Fayden and Izzet Charm are good because they loot Myr Battlespheres/Sundering Titans to Welder but I want a Daretti-level support card, but a good one cause I'd have to cut Fire/Ice and I love that card.
Not building too high expectations though since I'm sure WotC will play it safe this time around after the Mirrodin blocks. :/
Not building too high expectations though since I'm sure WotC will play it safe this time around after the Mirrodin blocks. :/
charlequin
Banned
I'm greedy, I want a legend and something else too.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Mishra though
Mishra isn't very good in cube, since most cubes are singleton. He's also 3-color.
I'm hoping for a glut of UR artifact-matters cards between Kaladesh and Aether Revolt. The pickings right now are super slim, especially in the multicolor department.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Need Nether Void, Blood Funnel or Possibility Storm in the cube then and that creature destroy thing that can be destroyed by skipping a turn.
You go! Playing Tron?
Good luck, may you be paired with all the Junds!
blindrocket
Member
Mana leak isn't always "perfect" but I think that it's still pretty strong in Modern.
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