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[Pennywise83]

It's not exactly a market I'd want to ignore. "Let's ignore this rapidly expanding, highly profitable market in favor of our slowly contracting, less profitable one."

The fact is, home consoles are not showing a sign of contraction, if we consider worldwide sales. PS4 is the fastest-selling home console ever, and Xbox One is not doing badly in the US and UK. The traditional market is also a lot less predictable than the mobile one. Nintendo might succeed with some IPs, but a. it's not automatic (we have seen traditional companies struggling on mobile, such as Capcom), b. it might not a good long-term investment (mobile market is less stable and people are ready to jump on the next big thing quite often), c. fidelization is something that on mobile is hard to achieve, unlike dedicated devices.

If Nintendo has this variety of IPs and characters it's because it was able to fidelize consumers. Mobile market has yet to see a success story in this sense. Angry Birds is the most important mobile IP and it's fading quite quickly.

 

[Eolz]

The fact is, home consoles are not showing a sign of contraction, if we consider worldwide sales. PS4 is the fastest-selling home console ever, and Xbox One is not doing badly in the US and UK. The traditional market is also a lot less predictable than the mobile one. Nintendo might succeed with some IPs, but a. it's not automatic (we have seen traditional companies struggling on mobile, such as Capcom), b. it might not a good long-term investment (mobile market is less stable and people are ready to jump on the next big thing quite often), c. fidelization is something that on mobile is hard to achieve, unlike dedicated devices.

If Nintendo has this variety of IPs and characters it's because it was able to fidelize consumers. Mobile market has yet to see a success story in this sense. Angry Birds is the most important mobile IP and it's fading quite quickly.

Isn't that the Wii?
But yeah, sort of agree for the rest, even if they are doing efforts to save what they mismanaged with Angry Birds.

edit:

A generous reading of the current ecosystem would be 200M units sold by the end of this generation; last generation was 260M.

That's pretty generous yeah. 160M is my (high end) personal prediction when everyone will have released a successor to those consoles (of course they'll keep selling a bit afterwards).

 

[Opiate]

The fact is, home consoles are not showing a sign of contraction, if we consider worldwide sales.

First, we're talking about Japan, since this is media create. Second, consoles are clearly contracting worldwide, too.

PS4 is the fastest-selling home console ever, and Xbox One is not doing badly in the US and UK.

PS4 is doing well for a first place console, but it isn't hugely outpacing the PS2 or Wii worldwide (it's actually behind the Wii at this point). Xbox One and Wii U are doing outright poorly relative to the second and third place consoles last generation. A generous reading of the current ecosystem would be 200M units sold by the end of this generation; last generation was 260M.

 

[Nirolak]

Hmmm..... i don't know here. I just don't see it lol. I feel that free game especially when it achieved maybe 2 or 3 titles can be the pushing button for those people. Especially parents when they heard from their children that they got free games. Parents would be less resistant into buying those dedicated consoles as this time, the already a number of free games on the system there and they don't need to buy new game for quite some time.

But maybe what u said is better or not i am really not sure lol.

It's not impossible, but I think what's most likely to win parents over is simply their kids asking for the system.

Like we are already talking about parents who can afford smartphones and/or tablets and let their kids sit playing with them.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

The only thing that I can't wrap my head around is that Nintendo owns 10% of DeNA, this is huge own its own merits

 

[Sandfox]

It's not impossible, but I think what's most likely to win parents over is simply their kids asking for the system.

Like we are already talking about parents who can afford smartphones and/or tablets and let their kids sit playing with them.

Pretty much. They basically just need to get kids interested in their franchises through mobile and other forms of media and then hope those kids will ask for the new Nintendo platform as their first dedicated device when they see an ad through one of these services.

 

[Opiate]

I just don't think people realize how lopsided the market is becoming, particularly in Japan. I get that we tend to focus on consoles here -- and console like games, even if they happen to be on handhelds -- but in Japan, the market has spoken. Mobile/handheld dominates the market, and that dominance is only increasing over time, not decreasing.

It's not the sort of thing I think Sony can just handwave away. We're not talking about some small segment of the market here -- it's the dominant force in the market that's growing over time, not just in Japan but worldwide. An enormous international conglomerate the size of Sony which focuses considerable resources on games can't afford to simply shrug and say "Oh well, guess we lost out on that mobile/handheld thing."

 

[MilesTeg]

You can't say a market is contracting simply because 2/3 players introduced products that the market didn't like. The consumer doesn't buy something simply because it's available. It has to be desirable. Xbox One is changing it's negative perception, Wii U is done.

Anyway, Xbone+PS4 are doing better than PS3+360 in the same time span. Nintendo released a dud (Wii U) and that skews the numbers big time. The place where AAA products are released is pretty healthy; the Wii wasn't part of that space last generation, thus it's dubious to claim contraction when most spending by third parties was outside of Nintendo platforms.

PC is gaining users as well and is now a place where AAA games are favourable to release.

Of course, there is the possibility of contraction. Japan it's especially obvious that the products they like are increasingly released outside of set top boxes.

I want to see Nintendo's next round of devices. The 3DS and Wii U are their weakest hardware platforms to date, and justifiably are seeing the lowest sales of any Nintendo hardware to date. I think it's fair to say that if Nintendo releases products the market wants that they will be successful.

 

[Opiate]

You can't say a market is contracting simply because 2/3 players introduced products that the market didn't like.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's contracting because fewer consoles will be sold this generation than there were last generation (and likely by quite a margin, but we'll wait and see on that). That's literally what contraction is.

 

[Sandfox]

I just don't think people realize how lopsided the market is becoming, particularly in Japan. I get that we tend to focus on consoles here -- and console like games, even if they happen to be on handhelds -- but in Japan, the market has spoken. Mobile/handheld dominates the market, and that dominance is only increasing over time, not decreasing.

It's not the sort of thing I think Sony can just handwave away. We're not talking about some small segment of the market here -- it's the dominant force in the market that's growing over time, not just in Japan but worldwide. An enormous international conglomerate the size of Sony which focuses considerable resources on games like Sony does can afford to simply shrug and say "Oh well, guess we lost out on that one."

They seem to be doing above internal expectations right now with the PS4 and given their other recent announcements on the gaming side they will probably just be sticking with that for the time being whether its the right decision or not.

You can't say a market is contracting simply because 2/3 players introduced products that the market didn't like. The consumer doesn't buy something simply because it's available. It has to be desirable. Xbox One is changing it's negative perception, Wii U is done.

Anyway, Xbone+PS4 are doing better than PS3+360 in the same time span. Nintendo released a dud (Wii U) and that skews the numbers big time. The place where AAA products are released is pretty healthy; the Wii wasn't part of that space last generation, thus it's dubious to claim contraction when most spending by third parties was outside of Nintendo platforms.

PC is gaining users as well and is now a place where AAA games are favourable to release.

Of course, there is the possibility of contraction. Japan it's especially obvious that the products they like are increasingly released outside of set top boxes.

I want to see Nintendo's next round of devices. The 3DS and Wii U are their weakest hardware platforms to date, and justifiably are seeing the lowest sales of any Nintendo hardware to date. I think it's fair to say that if Nintendo releases products the market wants that they will be successful.

If anything you could say that early PS3 numbers are skewing current comparisons as well.

 

[test_account]

It looks like the only Digimon game on Gameboy platforms to see a release in Japan was Digimon Racing. Japanltdrank doesn't have any sales data for that. Most Digimon handheld games were on Bandai's Wonderswan platforms:

*list*

I see. I wonder why they didnt release those games in Japan.

The only thing that I can't wrap my head around is that Nintendo owns 10% of DeNA, this is huge own its own merits

It seems that they just "traded" shares with eachother. DeNA owns 1.24% of Nintendo's shares, which is also pretty big.

 

[Aki-at]

PS4 is doing well for a first place console, but it isn't hugely outpacing the PS2 or Wii worldwide (it's actually behind the Wii at this point). Xbox One and Wii U are doing outright poorly relative to the second and third place consoles last generation. A generous reading of the current ecosystem would be 200M units sold by the end of this generation; last generation was 260M.

And if this generation does 200 million that would still put it about 10 million odd units behind the sixth generation! Market contraction is real and the success of the Playstation 4 is blinding the overall health of consoles

That being said if Sonic can do 500,000 users in the space of what, 3 weeks? In Japan, a franchise that is practically dead over there, I'm not sure why Sony don't attempt to push their own smartphone titles.

 

[heidern]

They didn't really have a successful console IP either when they took that market by storm with the PS1. I'm not saying it would be easy, but it's just not a market I would give up casually.

When you refer to the mobile market, are you speaking in terms of software or hardware? They already have their smartphones and aren't doing so well. They could ditch Android and create their own OS and app store I guess but I don't see that as having a strong chance of succeeding. They could make mobile games, but Sony rely more on third parties. Mobile is also a long way away from the AAA games market. Nintendo games are much closer to the offerings suitable for mobile.

 

[theprodigy]

wait, why would Sony care if their competitors fall? if anything that's a direct benefit to them, we're not exactly talking about third parties here

also Sony's strong point isn't exactly its first party games, so I don't see how a transition to mobile makes sense, and we all know how bad their venture into smartphones (as in the hardware) has gone so far

 

[MilesTeg]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's contracting because fewer consoles will be sold this generation than there were last generation (and likely by quite a margin, but we'll wait and see on that). That's literally what contraction is.

True enough, but in my opinion Wii U isn't failing simply because it's a console. It's failing because it has incredibly poor software support, a high price, bad idea and bad marketing. It's a bad product and bad products don't sell well. It's the opposite of the Wii in every sense.

Sure you can go ahead and subtract the 100 million Wii consoles from the equation and claim contraction. However there is no evidence that Nintendo can't release a better product and be more successful next time. And as I said most spending was done outside the Wii with third party. Xbone and PS4 are doing well in comparison to their predecessors and that's what big publishers like to see.

Of course, when you take handhelds into the equation as well, there is obviously contraction for gaming based devices on the whole. That is largely because they no longer have the full support of the Japanese gaming industry, which in turn means less games for everyone on these devices. That isn't as much of an issue on home consoles. At least outside of Japan of course.

 

[Oregano]

I'll cross-post my opinion from the other thread on the DeNA/Nintendo deal since it's basically a business opinion:

I actually think a key point for Nintendo is the ability to keep it at arms length somewhat. Iwata said in the Q&A session that they've left the option open for DeNA and Nintendo to go their separate ways if it doesn't work out.

I'm interesting to see what shape NX is taking now. I would still bet on it being both handheld and consoles but I would be interested in seeing how it interacts with their mobile offerings. Iwata repeatedly stressed that they won't put console games on mobile but as far as I saw there was no talk of whether their mobile offerings will be available on their platforms.

I've only seen it second hand but apparently the possibility of cross-save and cross-play were mentioned and I think that could go further than what you suggest. Being able to load Pokémon Amie/Super Trainer, Meownster Hunters or Norende Village on your smartphone using your save from the full game.

Honestly though I didn't think it made sense to try mobile before dedicated hardware was untenable and I thought it was a ways off. Exciting times though.

 

[Opiate]

When you refer to the mobile market, are you speaking in terms of software or hardware? They already have their smartphones and aren't doing so well. They could ditch Android and create their own OS and app store I guess but I don't see that as having a strong chance of succeeding. They could make mobile games, but Sony rely more on third parties. Mobile is also a long way away from the AAA games market. Nintendo games are much closer to the offerings suitable for mobile.

I mean a mobile gaming ecosystem. That may include hardware, but doesn't have to.

Again, I'm not saying it would be easy, but then, I don't think it's going to be easy for Nintendo, either. They're having to do a (what is for them unprecedented) joint partnership thing to just get off the ground.

And if this were just, I don't know, the rhythm game market, I'd understand simply giving it up and focusing on your strengths. If you can't easily figure out how to fit that in to your strategy, no big deal. But this isn't some small submarket; it's the most profitable, fastest growing segment of the market which is already dominant in Japan and is looking to pass console revenue in the west within the next few years. It's something I would be extremely hesitant to simply concede to competitors because it's hard.

 

[FoneBone]

I'm not sure where this leaves Sony. If Nintendo maintains its dominance of handheld systems while moving in to mobile, it leaves very little room for Sony to squeeze in to. I had thought they might transition in to mobile more aggressively/successfully than Nintendo, but perhaps that won't happen.

Well, Sony still could be a successful mobile developer, in theory. They just don't have a strong existing IP stable to leverage.

(I have to wonder if the sheer strength of their third-party support in the PS2 era bit them on the ass in that regard. Easier said than done, but if they'd done a better job of launching their own franchises, I think their hardware now - especially the Vita - would be in a much better position.)

 

[heidern]

I mean a mobile gaming ecosystem. That may include hardware, but doesn't have to.

Sony have two options to make money from gaming. They either make their own games for profit or they get other game developers to pay them a fee. As a developer Sony are a pretty small player in the traditional gaming market. Transitioning to mobile success would be even more difficult than making new monster AAA console IPs.

So the alternative is convincing mobile developers to pay them a fee. To do this they'd need to provide them some kind of service. Hardware platform, app store/storefront, development tools, back end services, marketing, IPs. I'm not sure I see any sizeable low hanging fruit there. Maybe a Playstation gaming store I guess, although they'd have to distribute this outside of the Android Store.

 

[ZSaberLink]

"We aim to construct a bridge between smart devices and dedicated video game hardware that connects consumers to our dedicated video game systems."

And that's where it'll all fall apart imo. Apart from JP, people don't spend money on mobile. There are some whales, but the vast majority of people just move from free thing to free thing while having their time cashed in as money by advertisers. On Android, nobody pays for anything at all and people pirate the paid apps. It's just incredibly naive that they'll get these folks to "upgrade" and I think it's going to kill them even faster while keeping them "relevant" in the stock market's eyes. Folks will have even less incentive to buy into dedicated devices, but Nintendo won't recoup the costs from the eyeballs they get from mobile gaming. I still am convinced that the current mobile pricing strategy is just an unsustainable bubble waiting to break. Before, Nintendo would have profited heavily from mobile gaming bursting. Now, I feel like it's going to hurt them quite a bit.

 

[Mpl90]

So, since Nintendo finally made the logical business decision and have done the responsible thing for their shareholders, I have a feeling that a lot of people here who were previously completely uninterested in discussing mobile sales and trends will have to start paying more attention very soon to stay relevant!

Well, maybe now people will care more about all the mobile analysis I usually make! So far, all the analytical posts I made about some mobile games / apps didn't start legitimate discussions as much as I hoped. Now that Nintendo's in the mix, maybe there will be interest after all! ;_;

 

[Scum]

So, since Nintendo finally made the logical business decision and have done the responsible thing for their shareholders, I have a feeling that a lot of people here who were previously completely uninterested in discussing mobile sales and trends will have to start paying more attention very soon to stay relevant!

I'm just catching up. Diversify?? Nintendo?? Holy shit! What a time!

 

[Oregano]

Well, maybe now people will care more about all the mobile analysis I usually make! So far, all the analytical posts I made about some mobile games / apps didn't start legitimate discussions as much as I hoped. Now that Nintendo's in the mix, maybe there will be interest after all! ;_;

But the problem is that all those analysis usually tell us absolutely nothing. It's not your fault, there's just no transparency for mobile markets. That's going to limit discussion a lot.

 

[Takao]

It says a lot that everyone is ignoring Sony's Android/iOS games. It sounds like Nintendo is taking the same strategy they already have: companion experiences rather than replacements for dedicated devices.

I see. I wonder why they didnt release those games in Japan.

Because Bandai wanted to support their own handheld.

 

[Eolz]

It says a lot that everyone is ignoring Sony's Android/iOS games. It sounds like Nintendo is taking the same strategy they already have: companion experiences rather than replacements for dedicated devices.

Nintendo doesn't want companion apps, nor replacements. They want new apps tailored for the platform.
There's a huge difference in IP appeal too.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

I thought they said that PC is only going to be like accompanied system? Like to buy some games or send message?



Well, Sony can simply ignore that market right? Especially when their smartphone product is not doing well last time i know. Tx to their idea of making tons and tons of product(Is it doing better now?)

It is not like Sony is doing much with Vita right now. And entering smartphone market is not easy at all.

Sony Xperia is a quality product that came to the market too late. Their mobile communication division (which is the division that was created basically to separate the smartphone business back in 2013 IIRC) was forecasted to have a performance of 1320BY in revenue and a operating loss of 215BY most of which came from Q2 after Sony did an adjustment in their assets in which basically cut short over 176BY on the perceived value of the division. I think its not long until Sony sell it as they did with Vaio, which is sad because the phone itself is incredible but I guess the momentum of Samsung, Apple and even HTC can't be stopped by a product that while great isn't ground breaking.

 

[Pennywise83]

First, we're talking about Japan, since this is media create. Second, consoles are clearly contracting worldwide, too.



PS4 is doing well for a first place console, but it isn't hugely outpacing the PS2 or Wii worldwide (it's actually behind the Wii at this point). Xbox One and Wii U are doing outright poorly relative to the second and third place consoles last generation. A generous reading of the current ecosystem would be 200M units sold by the end of this generation; last generation was 260M.

Of course, it's a Japanese sales thread, but business decisions are not made in a vacuum and if Sony is focusing on dedicated devices it's because worldwide they still have appeal. Also, the whole market might be contracting, but Sony's share is actually increasing with respect to the previous generation, both worldwide and in Japan. Worldwide its sales are also better than the previous generation, so it makes sense to keep investing in a highly lucrative market.

Finally, every generation is different from each other. In particular, this generation will see additional source of revenues, on top of mere hw & sw sales (digital games & DLC increasing YOY), therefore a comparison made on installed base doesn't depict the full situation in my opinion.

It says a lot that everyone is ignoring Sony's Android/iOS games. It sounds like Nintendo is taking the same strategy they already have: companion experiences rather than replacements for dedicated devices.

Perhaps because almost no one knew those apps even existed

 

[Takao]

Nintendo doesn't want companion apps, nor replacements. They want new apps tailored for the platform.
There's a huge difference in IP appeal too.

Companion experiences =/= companion apps

Sackboy Runs is a completely standalone game tailored for mobile platforms, but it has direct hooks to the proper LBP games. That doesn't sound dissimilar to what Iwata wants to have happen. He doesn't want a traditional Mario platformer on iOS, or else it would negatively influence the sales for their dedicated platforms.

Perhaps because almost no one knew those apps even existed

Which is kind of the problem.

 

[Aostia]

Companion experiences =/= companion apps

Sackboy Runs is a completely standalone game tailored for mobile platforms, but it has direct hooks to the proper LBP games. That doesn't sound dissimilar to what Iwata wants to have happen. He doesn't want a traditional Mario platformer on iOS, or else it would negatively influence the sales for their dedicated platforms.



Which is kind of the problem.

yes, but today's news was almost everywere, not only in Japan but even in Italy was on the primetime tv news, while I don't remember such coverage for Suckboy run. First party IP leverage is pretty different from zsony to Nintendo, as third party support on home console on the other hand. imho, of course.

 

[Takao]

I'm not denying that, or even arguing that Nintendo's IPs are more marketable than Sony's. I'm just talking about the conversation about what SCE will do in mobile. They've already dipped their toes into it, and few have cared.

 

[Opiate]

I'm not denying that, or even arguing that Nintendo's IPs are more marketable than Sony's. I'm just talking about the conversation about what SCE will do in mobile. They've already dipped their toes into it, and few have cared.

Oh, I absolutely agree with that. That's a significant reason why I expected them to get there before Nintendo did.

So far, Sony has given mobile some modest support, and gotten commensurately modest results. No, the results haven't been spectacular, but neither has the effort. Nintendo may suffer the same fate if that's their ultimate approach.

If Sony Mobile is just the tip of the iceberg, then I want to see the rest of the iceberg as soon as possible. If it's just a few scraps that Sony threw out to say "See? We tried!" then that's a pretty poor showing for such an important, growing, profitable gaming market.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

yes, but today's news was almost everywere, not only in Japan but even in Italy was on the primetime tv news, while I don't remember such coverage for Suckboy run. First party IP leverage is pretty different from zsony to Nintendo, as third party support on home console on the other hand. imho, of course.

I think the point is that Sony already tried to take on Mobile by making tie in games that wouldn't replace the console games but few people actually care, I did't even knew LBP had a mobile game.

Also I think that while Nintendo news taking on to mobile are huge, I wonder what their approach (or rather their partner and Nintendo) will be. Are they going to make a 2D platformer for mobile games with Mario characters and compete against themselves? Are they going to release back catalog games ported to mobile? Are they going to release small games tailored to mobile market for free as advertising tools and then tied them with their handheld/consoles offerings (this seems the case since DeNa has been tasked to build a network that would tie their offerings with the Nintendo platforms)?

I think that the third approach is the most obvious outcome (I don't know if Iwata already commented on the type of games that are going to be released on mobile) but I have to wonder if it is the best. For Nintendo as platform holders seems like the best scenario if their adventure on mobile succeed but I have my reservations, since the usual mobile customer is completely different than even the most casual handheld owner.

 

[Aostia]

I'm not denying that, or even arguing that Nintendo's IPs are more marketable than Sony's. I'm just talking about the conversation about what SCE will do in mobile. They've already dipped their toes into it, and few have cared.

Sorry, I lost that. Btw, I am not even sure about N possible succes on mobile

 

[Oregano]

I think the point is that Sony already tried to take on Mobile by making tie in games that wouldn't replace the console games but few people actually care, I did't even knew LBP had a mobile game.

Also I think that while Nintendo news taking on to mobile are huge, I wonder what their approach (or rather their partner and Nintendo) will be. Are they going to make a 2D platformer for mobile games with Mario characters and compete against themselves? Are they going to release back catalog games ported to mobile? Are they going to release small games tailored to mobile market for free as advertising tools and then tied them with their handheld/consoles offerings (this seems the case since DeNa has been tasked to build a network that would tie their offerings with the Nintendo platforms)?

I think that the third approach is the most obvious outcome (I don't know if Iwata already commented on the type of games that are going to be released on mobile) but I have to wonder if it is the best. For Nintendo as platform holders seems like the best scenario if their adventure on mobile succeed but I have my reservations, since the usual mobile customer is completely different than even the most casual handheld owner.

Iwata did specifically rule out porting their console games to mobile, several times actually. The idea seems to be making new games suited to mobile based on existing IP. Not necessarily adapting game concepts(although it will be somewhat inevitable).

 

[Nirolak]

Here's how DeNA/Mobage's one successful native smartphone app has performed over time:

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

Here's how DeNA/Mobage's one successful native smartphone app has performed over time:

Edit, Sorry, just notice that it says grossing ranks.

Iwata did specifically rule out porting their console games to mobile, several times actually. The idea seems to be making new games suited to mobile based on existing IP. Not necessarily adapting game concepts(although it will be somewhat inevitable).

Then I wonder how much impact this games will have on the traditional Nintendo platforms and games, because I doubt that even if you give people that play your mobile games incentives to buy/play games on your handheld/console if they are going to do it. The other way around does work, since traditional gamers will put up with mobile app/games if they get something out of it for their games on handheld/consoles (I think the FIFA/MADDEN/NBA 2K companion apps prove this beyond doubt) but we still have to see someone trying to take the inverse way.

 

[Nirolak]

I always wonder, are those rankings based on downloads or revenue?

The ones I post are revenue. The download chart is available in the same format however.

 

[Oregano]

Edit, Sorry, just notice that it says grossing ranks.




Then I wonder how much impact this games will have on the traditional Nintendo platforms and games, because I doubt that even if you give people that play your mobile games incentives to buy/play games on your handheld/console if they are going to do it. The other way around does work, since traditional gamers will put up with mobile app/games if they get something out of it for their games on handheld/consoles (I think the FIFA/MADDEN/NBA 2K companion apps prove this beyond doubt) but we still have to see someone trying to take the inverse way.

Yeah, it remains to be seen. However it's still better for Nintendo for them to buy Nintendo mobile games than other mobile games.

 

[SweetTeddie]

I wonder if Nintendo is giving up any royalties on their console sales to DeNA if they're codeveloping the account system. It'd be fascinating to see how the deal is actually structured, and where DeNA gets a cut from sales aside from mobile.

 

[Nirolak]

I wonder if Nintendo is giving up any royalties on their console sales to DeNA if they're codeveloping the account system. It'd be fascinating to see how the deal is actually structured, and where DeNA gets a cut from sales aside from mobile.

That strikes me as the kind of thing where they'd just pay DeNA to run the service they same way you would for most hosted business solutions.

Like you generally pay X million dollars a year based on how many users you intend to have and/or how much data you're generating.

 

[Mpl90]

yes, but today's news was almost everywere, not only in Japan but even in Italy was on the primetime tv news, while I don't remember such coverage for Suckboy run. First party IP leverage is pretty different from zsony to Nintendo, as third party support on home console on the other hand. imho, of course.

Where? Curious to know where the news was, precisely

 

[vinnygambini]

I wonder if Nintendo is giving up any royalties on their console sales to DeNA if they're codeveloping the account system. It'd be fascinating to see how the deal is actually structured, and where DeNA gets a cut from sales aside from mobile.

Mobile offerings:

Mr. Iwata said the company hopes to reach hundreds of millions of new users via the service, which will be made available globally. He said Nintendo would take the lead on developing new games for it, while DeNA will operate the technical side. Revenue will generally be split 50-50, he said.

On Co-developping Account System. DeNA are paid for their services & infrastructure but that ends there honestly.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

Yeah, it remains to be seen. However it's still better for Nintendo for them to buy Nintendo mobile games than other mobile games.

I agree, the nature of the deal seems to be that Nintendo bought 10% of DeNA and DeNA is now owner of 1.2% of Nintendo in a way that both parties bought the similar amount of money in stock from the other. So I guess they will both see benefits from this even if the mobile gamers don't take the bait the games will offer to jump to handhelds or consoles offerings.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I'm not sure where this leaves Sony. If Nintendo maintains its dominance of handheld systems while moving in to mobile, it leaves very little room for Sony to squeeze in to. I had thought they might transition in to mobile more aggressively/successfully than Nintendo, but perhaps that won't happen.

Home consoles. Its still a massive market.

 

[vinnygambini]

For those interested:

DeNA management will host a conference call to discuss the business and capital alliance with Nintendo Co., Ltd. announced on March 17, 2015

[Date]
Tuesday, March 17 18:30-NYC / 22:30-LDN
Wednesday, March 18 6:30-HKG&SIN / 7:30-TKY

http://v4.eir-parts.net/v4Contents/View.aspx?template=announcement&sid=22501&code=2432

 

[Opiate]

Home consoles. Its still a massive market.

Absolutely, but also one that is contracting and not very profitable. I'm not saying I'd want to abandon consoles, but I'd certainly want to make sure I had other avenues of expansion at this point, especially if I had Sony-like overhead. Hopefully they can expand on Sony/Playstation mobile or find a way to attract "casual" gamers back to consoles.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Well, maybe now people will care more about all the mobile analysis I usually make! So far, all the analytical posts I made about some mobile games / apps didn't start legitimate discussions as much as I hoped. Now that Nintendo's in the mix, maybe there will be interest after all! ;_;

What Oregano said. I look at Media Create and NPD because there are actual #s that I can quantify. Mobile charts still have no numbers and interest me as much as GfK does, so not at all.

 

[test_account]

What do people expect from this in the long run? To me, it seems more like the big deal is about Nintendo crossing a boundry (to put it like that) rather than some big change is going to happen in the gaming market overall just because Nintendo make this decision. But it remains to be seen exactly how big the mobile game output will be (as in how many games that will be made).

Because Bandai wanted to support their own handheld.

That would make sense. I forgot that Bandai made Wonderswan.

 

[Steel]

Absolutely, but also one that is contracting and not very profitable. I'm not saying I'd want to abandon consoles, but I'd certainly want to make sure I had other avenues of expansion at this point, especially if I had Sony-like overhead. Hopefully they can expand on Sony/Playstation mobile or find a way to attract "casual" gamers back to consoles.

Playstation mobile is just another one of many fragments of android, and not a particularly successful one. Sony itself at the moment has been far more concerned with trimming its own fat(which has included the smartphone division) than expanding into anything and I really don't see that changing anytime soon. The latter is more what they'll try, and what they have been trying(hell they tried to attract casual gamers to vita as well through call of duty and that backfired).

 

[ZSaberLink]

Oh, I absolutely agree with that. That's a significant reason why I expected them to get there before Nintendo did.

So far, Sony has given mobile some modest support, and gotten commensurately modest results. No, the results haven't been spectacular, but neither has the effort. Nintendo may suffer the same fate if that's their ultimate approach.

If Sony Mobile is just the tip of the iceberg, then I want to see the rest of the iceberg as soon as possible. If it's just a few scraps that Sony threw out to say "See? We tried!" then that's a pretty poor showing for such an important, growing, profitable gaming market.

The thing I never quite understand is where is everyone actually making money (the bolded portion). Like I feel I might be missing something here. Is this entirely from in-game advertising and the usual in-app purchases + whales? If so, how is this exactly a healthy or sustainable model? If not, what other revenue sources are they getting? Is Japan different in this regard? If everyone goes for high volume, low profit margin per sale type of games, you're forced to have huge userbases (like Nintendo's targeted 100M) to really start taking money. People have a limited amount of time to really even spend time in these games, so there's only a limited # of games that can really coexist at one time.

Nearly everyone I know seems to say making money in mobile development is an utter nightmare, but I feel like companies left and right continue to dive into it because of the prospect of getting one of these hits. Is there seriously any stability in mobile? Even P&D, the one semi-consistent franchise (at least lasted 2 years on top?) seems to be declining now right?