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Media Create Sales: Week 13, 2013 (Mar 25 - Mar 31)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Assassin's Creed IV, Battlefield 4, and Thief have all been announced post-PlayStation Meeting for PS4.
Granted, but MGS has always been a Sony "thing", so it's entirely conceivable they want to make a show of it.
But the game's already coming to 360 ... lol
They've already shown the game and confirmed a PS3/360 release. Even if it's cross gen it'd likely be on the 720 as well, so it's not as big a deal as if it were PS4 exclusive.
That's the thing though, 3rd-parties don't control the console split if they all go to PS4. That's up to Nintendo. 3rd-parties paid extremely little attention to Wii, and a lot of attention to PS3, but you still had that split where each system is in that 10-13M range.
If it was a strategically planned coalescence by 3rd-parties to ensure that one system dominated the market, then the choice would be WiiU. Sony isn't going to sell a system by itself. But Nintendo can. There's no guarantee that they will - but they can with the right software. So as we just saw with the Wii, even if 3rd-parties abandon it, the WiiU still has the potential to sell 10M units and split the home console market. If 3rd-parties abandoned Sony, then there would be a guaranteed single-market winner in Japan with essentially the full home console market in one place.
The point being - this isn't some concerted, combined strategy to nuke the WiiU and elevate the PS4. It's just each company making their own individual choices as to what they feel is the best direction for themselves.
You both know perfectly well that a game being multiplatform doesn't stop Sony and Microsoft (especially Microsoft) from trying to claim it as their own at E3.
Even if that's the case it doesn't really help mainstream market perception (people who don't watch E3). The perception would be "OK, it's on PS4/720...but it's also on three other consoles too."
What are you basing that off of?
You both know perfectly well that a game being multiplatform doesn't stop Sony and Microsoft (especially Microsoft) from trying to claim it as their own at E3.
I can see it now ...
MGSV trailer plays
Main action shots, and story scenes shown
Title card
Big Boss picks up a Dual Shock 4 and does something wacky
Crowd laughs
Just what I said. 3rd-parties all coalesced around PS3 and left Wii to rot, but the home console market was still split down the middle, because Nintendo is the most powerful publisher in Japan. So they have the potential to split the home console market on their own.
Sony is a very weak publisher in Japan, and wouldn't have a prayer of selling a system on their own against a WiiU that had full 3rd-party support + Nintendo on board.
But I'm only bringing it up to show that if the main focus and modus operandi of 3rd-parties was to ensure a home console market in Japan which was dominated by a single system - that choice would be the WiiU. There would be pretty much a 100% chance of achieving that single-system dominance. But that's not their modus operandi, and it certainly won't be happening this generation - ha ha.
electroplankton
Banned
Tales of Destiny remake sold 367k units on PS2 in 2006. I think it's a really good result, since it sold more than Tales of Legendia, which was a mainline title.
Taiko was successful on PS2, but PS2 also had a quite different (and larger) userbase than PS3. Taiko was also released on PSP, and sales were way lower than 3DS, DS and many Wii entries.
Monster Hunter 3G was selling nicely on a weekly basis. Retailers had all the interest to keep some amount of copies in stores, because the interest was there. The game kept selling until the Best Release was launched. I don't know why you keep implying that the game was some sort of failure at retailers. It wasn't, deal with it.
Except third parties know a lot of their games would sell better on a Sony console than a Nintendo one. Even if the Wii U ended up selling a lot because of Nintendo, it doesn't really matter because third parties would know the Wii U sold what it did because of Nintendo games alone. It doesn't guarantee that their games would sell optimally on the Wii U. So instead, third parties would prefer coalesce on a console that would have their games sell up to their potential, which is likely to be the PS4 (and the 720 for extra sales in Western markets).
When you bring up the fact that third parties will want to push tech/power and focus on the West (including major third parties like Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom), your argument just becomes weaker.
It's just a hypothetical thought experiment. There are a million reasons why it would never happen, including 3rd-party interests in the west. But that's why I restricted it to a modus operandi where their #1 priority was hypothetically to create a single dominant home system in Japan. If that was their primary focus in all things, then they can pretty much guarantee that result by throwing their support to the WiiU and withdrawing it from PS4. There is no such guarantee by reversing that equation, as we just saw with the Wii/PS3. Nintendo is the top-publisher in Japan, so there will always be a top-dog backing the other system. That wouldn't be the case if the roles were reversed.
But it's a crazy hypothetical that would never happen - first and foremost, because as you pointed out, 3rd-parties' #1 most important focus isn't to build a single dominant home system in Japan. They have a million other interests at work.
Taiko is huge in Japan arcades (just like Project Diva). At least in the Tokyo arcades I went.
I played both games and taiko is surprisingly fun! Seeing the Wii version sales I won't be surprised if Namco makes another Wii version instead of a PS3/Wii U version.
And I don't know if it's been discussed (I think so) but I'm pretty sure that Wii Fit U is finished and localized for other regions right now so if there's no release date announced yet it's all Nintendo's doing.
PS: I just bought the last famitsu and it has some top 10 from 2008 to 2012 but I can't guess a thing hahaha I'm sure it's been all posted now so I'll read the thread and see if there's something I could add
I played both games and taiko is surprisingly fun! Seeing the Wii version sales I won't be surprised if Namco makes another Wii version instead of a PS3/Wii U version.
And I don't know if it's been discussed (I think so) but I'm pretty sure that Wii Fit U is finished and localized for other regions right now so if there's no release date announced yet it's all Nintendo's doing.
PS: I just bought the last famitsu and it has some top 10 from 2008 to 2012 but I can't guess a thing hahaha I'm sure it's been all posted now so I'll read the thread and see if there's something I could add
Sure, that's exactly my point. Wii does have quite a different (and larger) userbase than WiiU. Success on previous consoles means little to struggling consoles.
Also the latest Taiko entry on PSP did 300k+
Not bad for a taiko game which can only be played with buttons.
michaelius
Banned
You don't know ? Obviously 3rd parties just dream about releasing games on systems where nearly all of top sellers are made by first party and platform holder takes 20 or so percent of software market share for itself
And all that amazing infrastructure that helps them sell tons of DLC content
I still disagree because games like Tales, FF, MGS, Atelier, Disgaea, and others would still sell better on the PS4 over Wii U, even if third parties decided to throw their eggs in the Wii U basket. It'd be very hard to move your fanbase over--and a significant number of people would refuse to move.
electroplankton
Banned
So why not keep releasing Taiko on DS as well? The third one still solve well above 300k units. Maybe because the userbase must be moved sooner or later?
Anyway, last LTD we know from Taiko PSP wasn't just above 250k? That's not bad but when on DS, Wii and 3DS you can sell at least double that amount...
No, they would sell zero copies on PS4 since they wouldn't be released on PS4 in that situation.
metalslimer
Member
Unlike the 3ds, the wiiu doesn't seem to offer much of a base to expand upon so if i were a japanese 3rd party i wouldnt bother with the risk.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
He means those franchises will sell better on Playstation.
Because the 3DS wasn't tanking, it had third party support and was selling for 15000Y.
Last Taiko PSP has sold 337k at retail (90k in 2012). I wouldn't be surprised if it ends at 370k+ this year.
well i think we should wait with making that observation until TGS as right now there is nothing to base that on.
Also i Predict that ps4 will do better in its launch debut then the ps3 did
Sony is pretty much aware that they shot themselves multiple times in the foot by pricing it at 599$ or 60.000 yen and nearly having no games for a year.
the no games part doesn't seem to become an issue this time
and based on the pricing of the on the shelf parts in the ps4 it will be relatively cheap.
either 399$ or if they have the balls 299$ .
Sammy Samusu
Member
That was before the game "bombed" on PS360.
Aliens, anyone?
Eh, I don't think it's the same. And last year Namco released Taiko 3DS (July) and Taiko Wii (November), so another round of Taiko games is not impossible.
I know Wii U is bombing right now, but if Nintendo plans well, it could sell in Nov/Dec.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Media Create
3G - 1.587.556
Best Price - 259.835
Famitsu
3G - 1.585.493
Best Price - 248.335
Thanks Sammy. I can't wait to see what kind of numbers 4 will push this far out relative to 3G and P3rd.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Looking at Garaph, Taiko doesn't seem to have really taken off at until it hit Nintendo platforms. The previous PS2/PSP sales all look incredibly low (mostly under 100k per entry). Portable DX is the best selling PS entry by a huge margin, though still lower end compared to the DS/Wii/3DS entires.
electroplankton
Banned
It was used to sell incredibly well on PS2 but that was for only two entries.
Yea, I'm thinking that Japanese 3rd-parties are pleased with the PS3 as their console of choice for few more years. When should we expect 3rd-parties to make the jump to the PS4? I'm expecting it to be faster than the PS3 so ~2 years is what I expect.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Yes, from a fairly reliable source too (also correctly leaked KH HD, LOS2/MOF and Silent Hill HD info). It was part of a group of rumors, including Revelations HD for 360/PS3/U (came true) and a sequel to ORC.
Taiko 2 PSP - 232k
http://geimin.net/da/db/2011_ne_mc/index.php
nº 614
Still, I don't see why are we arguing about Taiko on PSP. I'm also not expecting the franchise to jump to Vita.
Some of you think Taiko WiiU is assured to be announced this year. I don't think it makes sense but not denying the possibility.
It's okay. We can move on and discuss about a new topic, like I don't know, MH Vita or something.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Well, with the way Wii U has been going with 3rd party announcements, I don't think a Taiko announcement is immenent. PS3 or Vita seem nearly as likely imo.
Hero of Legend
Member
Already outsold all PSP games, having just topped the original Shin Budokai, check here for reference:
http://garaph.info/softwaregroup.php?grid=9
All numbers are via Famitsu BTW.
What shocks me actually, is the lack of Supersonic Warriors 3, at least on DS, when the second is among the highest sold period, people must've gone Great Ape *shot* over the GBA original, word of mouth might've helped as well, or it could've been during the peak of the franchise?
An outsourced title poorly done (nowhere near as bad that Tempest but still) and only appreciated by a few people, 367k is a bad result when you put as much effort as into a new game and it's outsold by those new games by 200k (Rebirth, Abyss)
If they were happy with the sales, I don't think they would have bother with a Director's Cut version.
Are you talking about Dual Pixels? If so, lol at "fairly reliable source":
"Mainline 3DS Pokemon game needs roughly two more years before its released."
"Direct hardware Backwards Compatibility will be available by a $70 $99 dongle that is plugged into the Omni that contains a PS3 on a chip with Cell to run games."
"Capcom is going to bring a voice command/dynamic slash version of Monster Hunter to the new X-Box."
"EA while limiting the budget will also bring Pulse and Battlefield 4 to the Wii U."
They were right about some Nintendo stuff like Yoshi's Island, and Donkey Kong Land Returns for Nintendo 3DS, but uhhh yeah...
Rock_Man kind of answered the question in a different way already, but whether they would sell more or less on Nintendo vs. Sony would be irrelevant to my scenario. If they were worried about sales of individual titles, then those individual titles would just be one of those millions of other interests at work that I mentioned (along with western focus, or keeping important devs happy who might want to work on more powerful hardware, moneyhats from Sony, etc., etc.).
In your case, the #1 overriding priority of the 3rd-parties isn't focused on creating one dominant system in the marketplace. They have other interests at work - such as a concern about some select individual titles. As I was trying to point out, my thought experiment was based on the premise that their main focus is on building one massively dominant home console system that owns like 85-90% of marketplace. That would be their main focus. The other stuff would only be focused on after achieving their main goal.
But it's a silly exercise anyway - and not really worth the discussion that we've already given it - ha ha.
Plans change, wouldnt be surprised if BF4 at some time was also planned to be released on WiiU.
airmangataosenai
Member
Japanese devs sticking with the PS3 for another 2-3 years guarantees limited appeal and continued Western irrelevance for yet another generation. This is the time where they should be staking out mindshare, not short-term Eastern-only profits. A Tales game at launch would draw in a lot of new people that otherwise wouldn't bother.
It's just like when they wasted all that time trying to target handhelds. The PS3 game might sell well, but I doubt it will ever pull in Xillia numbers again. That ship has sailed.
It's just like when they wasted all that time trying to target handhelds. The PS3 game might sell well, but I doubt it will ever pull in Xillia numbers again. That ship has sailed.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Theres no dispute that PS3 got the majority of third party releases right?
If we say the split of support of Japanese third parties is 70: 30 between PS3 and WiiU respectively surely it would be easier for that 30% to migrate to the PS3 than that 70% to migrate to the WiiU. Also Nintendo's first party are not enough to carry a home console alone. The N64 and GC showed us this and Nintendo were only able to get away with it this gen due to the casual flocking to the Wii.
What about the rumours. I don't think we should trust that site. Consider the possibility but lets not act as if it is a reliable source.
I actually think the transition will be much quicker as a lot of the big devs are ready. Konami has got MGS ready (yes I am assuming its for next gen consoles because I don't believe those graphics can be pulled of on a ps3/360), Capcom seems ready with deep down, SE seems ready with the next FF (if rumours are held to be accurate ), and Sega has apparently two titles for PS4 one being Yakuza. I really hope the next Tales will be on PS4 exclusively. It will help build a base on the console and as you said give some relevance to Japanese rpgs in the west.
With the right software, sure they are. There's no guarantee that they will - as shown by the N64/GC as you mentioned. But take away the little bit of 3rd-party software that the Wii received - and the Wii still sells somewhere around 10M units pretty easily just on the back of Nintendo. They are that strong of a publisher in Japan, that they are certainly capable of it. There's no chance of Sony carrying a system on its own the way Nintendo carried the Wii.
electroplankton
Banned
Given how poorly Tales of sells in the West, why jump on PS4 with only a slightly updated graphics? Also, Tales of on PSP always sold really well.
Probably.
It's an appealing proposition on the surface, but a tricky one in practice. Capcom tried just that last gen with Dead Rising and Lost Planet. They even found success with those early on because the platform was still finding its footing at the time. But they were flopping around like a fish out of water in the west by the end of the generation anyway. That early mindshare didn't count for much of anything once the big western pubs got their feet grounded on the new systems - and it left Capcom thinking they had a place in the west, only to keep failing with game after game as the generation wore on.
If the Japanese pubs want to really be a factor on PS4/720 in the west, then they need to commit to the same development budgets, marketing budgets, etc. that the western publishers will be using. But at the same time, their games need to have more of a western focus in gameplay/aesthetics. So now they're looking at spending a fortune trying to keep up with EA/Acti/T2/WB/Ubi, while at the same time the games will have much less of a chance at succeeding in Japan because of the western sensibilities of the game.
It's tough - and I wouldn't want to be on the board of one of these publishers trying to figure out how to make it work.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Exactly, just like MHP3 was planned to be a Vita launch title. And RE6 Wii U was teased by other sources too.
Do plans change as much as this?
"Sony is near the middle end part of their Project Orbis, their next generation PS4. It will not be called Playstation 4, teams have started to call the final name as Omni. Omni will reflect their new hardware and content delivery philosophy. Omni will be very capable of doing modern day graphics compared to a Direct X 11 level of technology like Unreal Engine 4 and Frostbite 2. Compared to Wii U, it is better, but not the biggest leap in the world according to developer friends of mine. The key is the Omniviewer, a thin, lite and slick head mounted autosteroptic display that can track the users head and presents a 360 image view with semi transparent AMOLED screens. This can turn any TV into a 3D TV, as well as add extra augmented reality information outside of the TV screen. One application from an entertainment perspective seeing movies in 2k, 4k or IMAX resolutions as their original size where you have to move your head to look at the full picture being displayed. Can also synch with the Vita. The new controllers whether its the Dual-Moves or the Classic DualShock will have pulse sensors in the grips for biofeedback gameplay."
You think this site is a reliable source? Really?
I have to ask, how much does it mean that PS4 is much easier to develop for than the PS3 for the Japanese studios out there? Do these devs use similar tools as their western counterparts?
Will they embrace the familiar PC architecture as much as the western devs have? Or is this irrelevant to what system they will make games for?
They developed Starfox Assault on GameCube, Soul Calibur II + Link sold best on GameCube in U.S., and Soul Calibur III was still PS2 exclusive. Don't put more weight on the SSB4 development by Namco-Bandai than it deserves.
test_account
XP-39C²
Wasnt the MHP3 rumor simply based on that one Capcom guy showing of MHP3rd runing on Vita through emulation at the Vita unveiling, to show off that the 2nd analog stick could be used in the game? Or was there anything more to it?