feynoob
Banned
The only casuality of this deal.get help
The only casuality of this deal.get help
Let's not try and rewrite history now. Sega opened up some good support to Xbox but they also supported Nintendo with exclusives like Super Monkey Ball, Skies of Arcadia, Billy Hatcher. And PS2 got its own batch of Sega exclusives like Virtual Fighter 4, Shinobi, Yakuza, Rez.They can have square. they have practically been a second partyy sony studio isince the 90s....I wont miss them....but I would hate for snoy to aquire sega as a long time die hard sega fan. They are the last company I would ever want to see aquire sega. I would rather nintnendo aquired them as their games seem a good fit on their consoles...or MS aquite them because after the DC died, the xbox became my new 'dreamcast' (at first, what with panzer dragoon, jet set radio, gun valkerie and sega GT.... it seemed like sega was trying to migrate its fans to xbox at the time, and was one of the key factors in getting the OG xbox along with halo (because it was halo...the first time round!) and PGR...which was basically MSR 2. I still have a massive collection of sega games on xbox, so no....I never want to see sony aquiure sega...as a sega fan.
Ah, so Microsoft should just be able to buy the industry while they are at it, since, you know, they can "afford" it and Sony can't. You seem to be calling out Naughty dog here, what IPs did Sony get with their acquisition that were multi-platform at the time of buying them? Hell, Crash, one of the IPs they worked on is under Microsoft now. ND was **pretty much** working on games for Sony anyway. Sony's acquisition of Bungie is also not quite the same; whether you like it or not, their games, including future ones, will remain multi-platform (I know you didn't say you liked that/or disliked that).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Naughty_Dog_video_games
Extensive history?
Naughty Dog were platform agnostic developer until ~1994 where they began to "partner" aka accept money from Sony to develop games exclusively for their platform until they were outright purchased in 2001.
So you are saying what Microsoft SHOULD have done here is gone out and moneyhatted a bunch of Activision games for roughly 3-5 years before they were given a free pass to purchase them and then it would have been perfectly ok? Electronics Arts, Capcom, and T2 too? If you look at the pattern here... Sony moneyhatts a brand agnostic studio (Some even making mostly Microsoft games prior) to make some exclusive games for it for maybe 3-5 years and then buys them.
Why does the same logic not apply to Bungie? Everyone seems to be perfectly ok with Sony's purchase even though there is an "extensive history" of them supporting the Xbox platform. But it's ok when Sony does it?
"But the scale of the acquisition isn't the same!"
Errr ok, and you don't think if Sony could freely afford to spend $69 billion to buy up someone like Activision they wouldn't do it? OF COURSE they would... they make smaller safer purchases because they can't afford a big splurge like this. Does it make Microsoft wrong because they CAN afford it? No, not really... as we are now seeing by the CMA's provisional findings amendments.
Yeah, Sony dropped bags of cash on smaller developers along the way eventually buying them after proven success. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that if it's what the purchased studios want. As i keep saying if Bungie makes their next franchise PS exclusive oh well. It is what it is and Sony and Bungie have every right to do so. Buy a Playstation if you want to play it. No biggie.
As for the "from the ground up" examples given, i didn't do the hiring... i don't know where all the employees came from. 200+ fresh brand new employees "from the ground up" for each of these new studios or simply shuffling of pre-existing employees or new employees from their various studio acquisitions? No idea.
WTHF ..... only 20 pages???
Clearly some of you are not living up to your full potential - expect this to be on your performance reviews... 800 pages was an EASY target..
What'd I miss?
I'm still legit amazed that Disney/Fox was allowed to go through. That was beyond insane, The Walt Disney Company already controlled a vast amount of American media before they took possession of 20th Century fox.It's just unfortunate. Even still I don't really think this acquisition was as bad as Facebook/Instagram or Disney/Fox. But it's up there.
You what? im speaking as a sega fan who was making my choice at the time on what a post sega console world choice will be for me....when that initial batch of sega games was announced for DC....VF4, shinobi etc. were not even announced...I remember because I eventually bought a PS2 for those games...but at the time when JSFR, gun valkyrie etc was announced they had NOTHING for PS let alone gamecube....... and you accuse me of rewriting history....If you owned a DC in 2000 and wanted to know where to play the next batch of sega games, they were only being announced for xbox initially. JSFR and gun valkyrie in particular being former DC games that even had DC footage in magazines....this was long before VF4, which by the way is a fighting game I still adore to this day...so no...I didnt forget they released games on PS and GC..I omnwed sega games on those consoles too....I DO remember which console sega announced its next releases for first though....Let's not try and rewrite history now. Sega opened up some good support to Xbox but they also supported Nintendo with exclusives like Super Monkey Ball, Skies of Arcadia, Billy Hatcher. And PS2 got its own batch of Sega exclusives like Virtual Fighter 4, Shinobi, Yakuza, Rez.
That's just what publishers did at the time, give a couple games to everyone and they were a lot of the time exclusives
Entertainment content can come and go, unlike real infrastructure. Plus anyone can make comics like marvel and disney contents.I'm still legit amazed that Disney/Fox was allowed to go through. That was beyond insane, The Walt Disney Company already controlled a vast amount of American media before they took possession of 20th Century fox.
Maybe I shouldn't be though. Nvidia-ARM is actually the only big acquisition that somehow hasn't been allowed in the past decade, I can't think of another one that was blocked.
Really? I would love to hear your take on it.That licensing is your comparison for the two deals says otherwise.
The whole argument is stupid AF..... idk how people dont understand a simple concept as marketing rights and not being on a competitors sub service. How stupid would you be as a company paying a ton of money to get marketing rights and then your competitor can just promote the game on their sub service day 1 basically trumping your own marketing on your console. This also doesnt take into account the actual publisher of the game might not want to put it on a sub service and wants game sales firstYour really living in your own world believing this nonsense. So MS’s third party GP games is also blocking it to come to PS+, right right
Stupid ass arguments. Were is the proof? Because big mouth MS said it? So how do you call MS having timed exclusives deals?
WTHF ..... only 20 pages???
Clearly some of you are not living up to your full potential - expect this to be on your performance reviews... 800 pages was an EASY target..
What'd I miss?
Do you know what arm is?Really? I would love to hear your take on it.
The Nvidia-ARM acquisition was blocked for political reasons, not because of any actual economic or technical reasons after all. China objected because they didn't want their stolen Chinese ARM company cut off, the UK objected because they didn't want an American company taking control of a British firm. There was not one single argument against Nvidia and ARM that wasn't political.
I might add that Microsoft objected to the Nvidia and ARM tie-up because, get this, they didn't want Nvidia to have a monopoly on that technology and not have a potential competitive advantage as a company that owned the core IP but also was a licensed customer. They were worried that Nvidia would favor themselves with licence terms or even foreclose competitors by refusing to license to some companies. The joke writes itself.
This thread delivers.
So just like that all the people here saying how great the CMA was, how much they were over their breif of the console buisness, how they would make the right decision, they are now saying the CMA are fucked, have no idea what they are doing and have destroyed gaming.
Hey guys, remember, the CMA are all over this and know what they are doing.
You must have a faulty memory. You know checking dates isn't hard? Super Monkey Ball and Rez was 2001. SMB was a GameCube launch title. Virtua Fighter 4, Shinobi, Skies of Arcadia, Gunvalkyrie, JSRF were all 2002.You what? im speaking as a sega fan who was making my choice at the time on what a post sega console world choice will be for me....when that initial batch of sega games was announced for DC....VF4, shinobi etc. were not even announced...I remember because I eventually bought a PS2 for those games...but at the time when JSFR, gun valkyrie etc was announced they had NOTHING for PS let alone gamecube....... and you accuse me of rewriting history....If you owned a DC in 2000 and wanted to know where to play the next batch of sega games, they were only being announced for xbox initially. JSFR and gun valkyrie in particular being former DC games that even had DC footage in magazines....this was long before VF4, which by the way is a fighting game I still adore to this day...so no...I didnt forget they released games on PS and GC..I omnwed sega games on those consoles too....I DO remember which console sega announced its next releases for first though....
WTHF ..... only 20 pages???
Clearly some of you are not living up to your full potential - expect this to be on your performance reviews... 800 pages was an EASY target..
What'd I miss?
I think you should actually take a look at some REAL history in terms of Sega... tired of this BS narrative. My first console was a genesis and I loved alot of the gamesYeah. All of that. Plus Sony pretty much destroyed SEGA back in the day, and it's time they get what's been coming for decades!![]()
I think they might consider going this route
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Cash it out (50-60B$+), letting the other big fish handle the headache while having $$ to buy Bandai Namco and making it Sony’s official venture into gaming
Oh, I know exactly what ARM is. I've been an investor longer than most people in this forum.Do you know what arm is?
The entire world depends on those technology. You cant allow 2 companies in that field to merge and have majority of control. That is bad for any future technology.
Not to mention it was Nintendo ACTUALLY fucking over Sony that cause Sony to come out with its own console to begin withGTFOH with that FUD. Sony didn't "destroy" SEGA; SEGA killed themselves. SEGA were the ones stupid enough to sell a $299 Sega CD in the West with nothing but mediocre FMV games. SEGA were the ones stupid enough to feel they needed a "response" to the Jaguar in the 32X, a $150 add-on that was dead six months after it came out, instead of investing in the SVP chip for more graphically-intensive software on stock Genesis to compete with DKC, Super Metroid, Chrono Trigger and other late SNES releases.
SEGA were the ones that rushed the Saturn to NA in May with no marketing and barely any software, simply to try getting a leg-up on PS1. SEGA were the ones that pissed off retailers like KB Toys, who refused to stock Saturns because of that rushed May release leaving them out of the loop. SEGA are the ones that pronounced the Saturn publicly dead at E3 1997.
You don't even know a fraction of what really happened, and somehow think Microsoft acquiring ABK is "revenge" for a company that didn't need any help neutering themselves as a platform holder in the industry thanks to some of the dumbest self-inflicted business decisions ever made. But go ahead, keep blaming all of SEGA's shortcomings during that era on Sony; never mind it was Nintendo who ate up a huge portion of Sega's Western audience with the N64 but I don't see the same vitriol towards them. Wonder why![]()
MS almost got broken because of it.The entire world depends on Windows, you know. >95% of the world's computers run it. It's the de-facto operating system of the entire world's computers. And yet nobody seems to be slightly disturbed that Microsoft continues to try and extend into new monopolies. I'm surprised they let Microsoft try and dominate the nascent mobile phones market the way they did, in the end it only worked out because Microsoft wasn't able to compete against Apple and Google there.
You said it yourself, emerging technology.Speaking of bad for future technology, did you know that Microsoft now controls a significant stake of OpenAI, the creators of GPT? We're now allowing Microsoft to have a majority of control over a new emerging class of Generative AI. Is that also bad for future technology? Why doesn't anyone try to stop Microsoft there either?
Zero chance.. I thought they would atleast ask for discounted price for Sony so they put it on PS+ at a reasonable price.
The difference is buying a successful studio/puvlisher and buying and making into a success
And the answer to your question is Sony Santa Monica built from ground up within Sony, also Team Asobi, Sony San Diego, London Studio, Polyphony Digital,
I'm also aware of MS's antritrust history, having actually lived through those times while growing up in California. It's possible that I'm more sympathetic to Silicon Valley than Redmond because of where I grew up, but yes I do know that MS faced an antitrust trial and survived. Today they are not a broken up company, instead they are the world's second most valuable by market cap.MS almost got broken because of it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp.
You said it yourself, emerging technology.
Regulators would make a case for that once they deemed it dangerous.
But these are not close to arm. Arm+Nvidia is bad for the industry because of how important chips are. Every piece of smart technology need a chip. Imagine the damage arm+Nvidia would do if both were allowed to merge.
That is why people were opposed to. Not some political bullshit.
Really? I would love to hear your take on it.
The Nvidia-ARM acquisition was blocked for political reasons, not because of any actual economic or technical reasons after all. China objected because they didn't want their stolen Chinese ARM company cut off, the UK objected because they didn't want an American company taking control of a British firm. There was not one single argument against Nvidia and ARM that wasn't political.
I might add that Microsoft objected to the Nvidia and ARM tie-up because, get this, they didn't want Nvidia to have a monopoly on that technology and not have a potential competitive advantage as a company that owned the core IP but also was a licensed customer. They were worried that Nvidia would favor themselves with licence terms or even foreclose competitors by refusing to license to some companies. The joke writes itself.
I'm actually in agreement with you. However Sony has no options left if Microsoft is basically allowed to buy the industry up to crush PlayStation.Is it financially viable for them to do so, though? are they capable of spending upwads of 20Bn on a publisher? are they capable of outbidding MS, or any othe rpotentially interested party? We have so many armchair accountants who insist that they do, But elsewhere it says sony have given the PS division 5BN in spending from now till 2025. Then others are saying they have secretly bought square or already have secretly bought take 2 (both of which just sound bizzare because you cant aquire companies that are worth millions without a single person noticing or reporting on it).
"If they can hold Madden and FIFA for ransom when MS decides to take CoD away from PlayStation, they can at least guarantee mutually assured destruction and that's the best outcome Sony can hope for."
this is Outlandish and pretty far fetched. there is no "mutually assured destruction" when one company (MS) is so much larger than the other (sony) that they could basically aquire playsation if sony was for sale and japanese government permitted it. ...... Thats a bidding war that amounts to a one sided ass whoopin'. There is no world where sony can outbid or out spend MS for aquisitions.
Go to Konami and bring back a proper PES! Do it FIFA you cowards!Simple. Who the hell else are the NFL and NBA going to find to make their annual video game? The reality is that today only EA has the competence to make sports games. Every other publisher and studio has basically dropped out. Look at how FIFA is faring trying to find someone to take on the FIFA license during their licensing spat with EA. FIFA is kinda fucked, they will have to go crawling back to EA in a year or two because there's literally no one else left.
At its core it should never of been blocked.Yeah I'm done. Regulators are going to approve the deal with baby slaps worth of behavioral remedies. Microsoft will feel emboldened to make further large gaming publisher acquisitions. Other big tech companies will do the same. Sony and even Nintendo will need to make publisher acquisitions of their own now.
Love how regulators just signed a death warrant for the gaming market. All this mass consolidation is going to lead to another crash and unlike the "Atari" one, actually global and much bigger. We're going to get less games, not more. We're going to see content put in the vault to artificially boost value (just look at what Disney is doing today with so much of the Fox content they acquired), when we probably would have seen new installments in that content if those companies weren't acquired. Ironically, this is going to lead to more closed ecosystems, not open ones.
I would have been cool with at least a COD/Activision divestiture. I was never flat-out against the deal otherwise. But just wait until Microsoft starts violating these behavioral remedies and laughs away as they pay the fine...if they're even required to pay them. Oh well.
Welp gaming was a nice hobby to have while it lasted. But I don't see this industry not crashing and burning 10 years from now. Enjoy it while you can.
she will tweet more im afraidThis bitch. It's actually sickening. I would've preferred the CMA not even bother with the pump faking if we could avoid self satisfied bullshit like this. Ugh.
I didn't expect a complete 180 from CMA. I thought they would atleast ask for discounted price for Sony so they put it on PS+ at a reasonable price. Lets see in a month what remedies has CMA agreed to.
Sony now has to ask themselves this: Do they want to accquire major third party studios/publishers or sell the PS division?
It’s obvious Sega couldn’t compete once Xbox was announced, and then Sega threw in the towel, that’s no retcon, it’s legit history.Weird retcon. Sega discontinued Dreamcast because they were going broke, not because of a pending threat from Xbox. Dreamcast was losing money from day 1 and the momentum behind PS2 was rapidly pulling players and third party developers over to the PlayStation platform. As good as the Sega arcade ports and first party games were, without solid third party support to bolster sales the platform was finished and Sega Japan pulled the plug. Once the plug was pulled Sega actively sought to partner with Microsoft to release games on Xbox and released several great exclusives on Xbox.
I mean it’s obvious.Ok buddy. You can keep believing that Sony had nothing to do it with it. Fannies and their delusions.
Whatever Sony is willing to pay would probably be so low they'd basically be getting it for free. Giving away or even discounting new games isn't a subscriber perk they've shown interest in else they'd have done it already with their own games.I didn't expect a complete 180 from CMA. I thought they would atleast ask for discounted price for Sony so they put it on PS+ at a reasonable price. Lets see in a month what remedies has CMA agreed to.
Sony now has to ask themselves this: Do they want to accquire major third party studios/publishers or sell the PS division?
Why is this a shock... Blizzard literally had their own conference... Blizzcon?The fact that Blizzard alone is Bigger than XGS+Bethesda combined is Bizarre
I don't think regulators are that far gone to let Microsoft buy out even more of the few publishers left. Just one ridiculously large acquisition per industry for any given mega conglomerate.you think microsoft are just gonna stop now after getting activision? they are literally rubbing their hands together right now. they are probably already planning on who they can get next.
I already told you about arm.I'm also aware of MS's antritrust history, having actually lived through those times while growing up in California. It's possible that I'm more sympathetic to Silicon Valley than Redmond because of where I grew up, but yes I do know that MS faced an antitrust trial and survived. Today they are not a broken up company, instead they are the world's second most valuable by market cap.
You still haven't offered a case for what kind of damage Nvidia-ARM would have caused. I'm interested in hearing it, even though it's getting kind of OT for this thread.
Big win for gamers.This is huge by the CMA.
A big win for Microsoft's case.
Sony made a mistake by making this all about COD, so it became all about COD.Can’t wait for Phil to say
“This deal was always about bringing exclusive games to Xbox”
This was always the question. What you think you can keep stabbing a trillion dollar company and they wouldn't get tired of it? This was always Sony's next choice whether it was 10 years from now or now.I didn't expect a complete 180 from CMA. I thought they would atleast ask for discounted price for Sony so they put it on PS+ at a reasonable price. Lets see in a month what remedies has CMA agreed to.
Sony now has to ask themselves this: Do they want to accquire major third party studios/publishers or sell the PS division?
Have no issue with this thinking either. I agreeI don't see anything wrong with wanting to support a company that is based in the country you live in. Though I do hope that was not their only reasoning.
Only for MS.Big win for gamers.
Sega was responsible for its own downfall. Microsoft even invested in Sega with the Dreamcast so what you are saying isn't correct. Sega stumbled with how fast they were moving from one product to the next and other factors.Xbox was announced a year before Dreamcast was discontinued. It became too crowded for Sega to compete.
Xbox gamers maybe. But gamers in general? Naah.Big win for gamers.
They already bought Bungie for $3B as a reactionary purchase.I didn't expect a complete 180 from CMA. I thought they would atleast ask for discounted price for Sony so they put it on PS+ at a reasonable price. Lets see in a month what remedies has CMA agreed to.
Sony now has to ask themselves this: Do they want to accquire major third party studios/publishers or sell the PS division?
Sure, I'm glad you actually replied and did so seriously. So here's what I have to say first about ARM, then about Nvidia.Again with the licensing. The deals aren't comparable because the companies sit in very different portions of their industries. A very simple example: How would Microsoft making Activision games exclusive prevent Sony from making games or consoles? How could NVIDIA withholding licenses or advanced ARM tech affect any competitor requiring chips? The difference is night and day if you have a cursory understanding of the chip industry. Sony doesn't need Activision games to exist as a company. ARM designs are essential to much of the computing market.
Microsoft's objections are not a contradiction either. Microsoft objected to ARM because it is a major purchaser of chips because of Azure. It objected like most of the industry because of the potential for reduced competition and increased prices due to the acqusition. Nvidia would essentially be the chip industry had the deal went through. Buying Activision has practically no chance of creating a monopoly. Regulator concerns about the IP creating an insurmountable lead for cloud gaming services are well founded. Those are more easily addressed by behavioral remedies similar to how many countries disallow exclusive content like sports to be tied to internet or television providers without fair access. No behavioral remedy would stop Nvidia from keeping the best shit for its designs and its products being able to sell at a lower costs because it doesn't need to pay royalties.