Classicrockfan
Banned
Anything happening today.........nothing ok thanks.
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wowbaggerBR
Member
Off course not! I mean, it's not like everyone spent the last seven years shitting all over Jaguar cores because they were holding everything back.
Lockhart, if anything, will push us forward. So. Much. Power. It's gonna be amazing.
pawel86ck
Banned
1080 GTX is 10TF GPU when OCed.
Even in those quotes you posted. No one says anything about Lockhart holding back series X.
“ a certain degree of suspicion and worry... If we look back at the console generations, the lowest spec machine has always been a pain in the bum to work with”
“Concerned” “pain in the ass” =\= “hold series X back”
What previous gen has their been a “lower spec machine” at launch?
Seems he’s talking cross gen titles to me.
And “pain in the ass” means more work not “hold hardware back”.
And all of this is about a rumored device that doesn’t even exist at the time.
You’d have to answer all of this and more before you use those quotes to prove anything more than what they say.
And we have an actual dev in this thread telling you it’s nonsense.
Digital Foundry themselves have put out a video testing and proving that a rumored Lockhart level machine would perform just fine at lower resolutions.
But you ignore all that to take these out of context anonymous quotes and spin them into your narrative.
Smoke6
Member
Why is this the thought process here? Nobody has mentioned any doom and gloom nowhere besides the corona virus and yet this always seems to pop up because someone not saying anything as fast or the time frame you feel suits your needs!
I’m pretty sure someone would have tweeted out or sent a little birdie about something like that going on but so far not a word of it and I wish it’s kept that way!
the game is chess, not checkers!
Fake
Member
I'll ask you again. Read the article. Or at least watch the video. Please. Its not so hard.
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
NO MORE FIGHTING GUYS GHOST FUCKING SASHIMI C'MON, GHEIMZ!
Lockhart does not have a Jaguar, so I’m not sure why you thought that was relevant.
But even then. With 7 years of shitty Jaguar cores we still got plenty of very technically advanced and impressive games that seemed impossible when the consoles were announced.
It’s not the hardware that’s driving developer ambitions. It’s the other way around.
Dabaus
Banned
Exactly. Some youtuber said on his twitter said as much today.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Based on the mid-gen upgrades? Those were refreshes, not the same thing. By that logic the fact these systems are now using PC architectures and components, they might as well just use PC API tools and simply scale to the hardware they use in question. But that's not how things work.
Truth is downports of next-gen games to older-gen systems is nothing new. We saw it with PS4 and XBO early-year titles to PS3 and 360. Same thing with early 360, PS3 and Wii titles to Xbox, PS2 and Gamecube. Even saw that going as far back as the late '80s/early '90s with SEGA porting games like Sonic to the Master System and Game Gear of all things.
Arguably the only time this wasn't the case was the transition to 6th gen. Didn't see a lot of downports of Dreamcast/PS2/Gamecube/Xbox games to PS1/N64/Saturn. And it's kinda easy to see why that was the case: even very early 6th gen games were just too intensive for the 5th gen systems. But we haven't seen generational leaps like that in ages, and we aren't going to see that this time around, either.
Toolchain software and workflows have become much more efficient all around since even the start of last gen. Not just on the developer's end with engine scalability and asset pipeline production, but also middleware solutions (Unity, Unreal, Maya, Blender, Photoshop etc.) and API features from the hardware providers too (AMD, Sony, Microsoft, etc.).
That makes the need to choose porting upward vs. porting downward massively reduced compared to times past, unless a developer literally wants to do a cheap cash-grab and nothing more (which is harder and harder to get away with, especially on consoles, because a lot of hardcore/core early adopters are already adverse to that type of tactic which they tend to associate with mobile games (whether fairly or unfairly).
Bludbro
Neo Member
The state of next-gen: Examining the battlegrounds on which the PS5 and Xbox Series X will fight
With a new round of consoles drawing near, Edge examines the battlegrounds on which the next generation will fight
Apparently there's rumours of an imminent PS5 wired cover...
Fake
Member
For anyone curious about the podcast, here the link:
podcasts.google.com
Google Podcasts is no longer available
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
The state of next-gen: Examining the battlegrounds on which the PS5 and Xbox Series X will fight
With a new round of consoles drawing near, Edge examines the battlegrounds on which the next generation will fightwww.gamesradar.com
Apparently there's rumours of an imminent PS5 wired cover...
There's a better chance of cerny making me dinner.
Burrito Bandito
Banned
lets be real, TLOU is actually a very cliche and basic story. Lets not make it out to be anything else. As far as video games go I can see why people held it in high esteem but in comparison to hbo quality narratives such as True Detective and GoT its VERY mediocre. I dont see how HBO could do anything other than improve it tbh.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The state of next-gen: Examining the battlegrounds on which the PS5 and Xbox Series X will fight
With a new round of consoles drawing near, Edge examines the battlegrounds on which the next generation will fight
Apparently there's rumours of an imminent PS5 wired cover...
Yeah right.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
He said aiming for a number above 10.7TF, not that they were aiming for performance better than 10.7 GCN flops.
Fake
Member
This is your best argument? Ok. Good to know.
edit: Here: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/xbox...art-not-holding-back-series-x-at-all.1529703/
Strange coincidence btw.
Maybe rumours from the other site, but is a easy bet Sony using wired again.The state of next-gen: Examining the battlegrounds on which the PS5 and Xbox Series X will fight
With a new round of consoles drawing near, Edge examines the battlegrounds on which the next generation will fight
Apparently there's rumours of an imminent PS5 wired cover...
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Moridianae
Member
Those are some serious megaton titles coming in the next 4 months. I can see why they are staying quiet sometimes.
It is worth noting that Microsoft is probably wanting to speak more about the Series X because they simply don't have a lineup that strong in the pipe right now, especially exclusivity wise.
Better to speak for the future, as their present doesn't have the same dynamite AAA lineup. I have good faith their next-gen offerings will not disappoint, though.
It is worth noting that Microsoft is probably wanting to speak more about the Series X because they simply don't have a lineup that strong in the pipe right now, especially exclusivity wise.
Better to speak for the future, as their present doesn't have the same dynamite AAA lineup. I have good faith their next-gen offerings will not disappoint, though.
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
The state of next-gen: Examining the battlegrounds on which the PS5 and Xbox Series X will fight
With a new round of consoles drawing near, Edge examines the battlegrounds on which the next generation will fight
Apparently there's rumours of an imminent PS5 wired cover...
imminent is just a fancy soon.
Bludbro
Neo Member
Well second wired article was about 6 months after first, so maybe mid April?
What’s the coincidence you are getting at?
That we have an actual dev with actual experience with the machines saying your claims are nonsense?
Yeah that’s crazy
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Is the March cube Nioh2?
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Most stories are basic, but the acting is not. Ashley Johnson and Troy Baker performances in TLOU is far from basic and it's arguably some of the best in the industry and that's one of the reasons why it makes the game great.
Shmunter
Member
There is nothing wrong or inaccurate with what you’ve written and I commend you for taking the time. But because it is as you’ve written is what makes the whole conundrum of 2 target platforms the core issue.
We will never have the privilege of knowing if a game on XSX vs lockheart is a game it could have been if XSX was the one and true baseline. Could we have had a game with higher scene complexity? Higher fidelity assets? But instead maybe we are just getting
slider values like Lod improvement, shadow quality & resolution because the design blueprint had to take a 4tf system into account and run it at 60fps there.
More than 1 thing can be true at the same time.
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Smoke6
Member
I can!
first off you can setup the story just as you did in the opening of the original game but stretching it out over the entirety of the season leaving the cliff hanger in the end that this virus or whatever has arrived stateside.
next season starts off and we finally get to the part of Joel and his family things ramp up from there but we are given different perspectives from inside the CDC from across the world to here at home with the main character and the supporting cast!
as this season progresses we can literally watch the world decay and in the midst of the journey we meet elle and get an engrossing story about her and backstory of her upcoming and family while all this was going on and currently taking place.
from here we can go into the making of the “factions” that will play a vital role in this game along with the fireflies, that will be the vital point of the game as we can slow play it to a world more than just survival at this point mixed in with the story of Joel and Elle!
gotta see how the sequel turns out as we can get at least six seasons from both titles!
cant wait and yeah I was just going off the top of my head
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
To be fair......we really don't know how much lower the specs are for Lockhart. Will it be the EXACT same Zen2 CPU as the XSX?
saintjules
Member
Fake
Member
I guess with a weaker GPU and less RAM, but the CPU will be the same if 'Windows Central' hit the bet.
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Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
So here’s the chain of things, and how they will play out.
Series X > LockHart >>> Xbox one
On this chain, Xbox one X is irrelevant because it will essentially run the xbox one data at a higher resolution.
Let’s start at the top, Series X. Games will be made for Series X as a base. They will take advantage of the 12tf of power, and include all the visual bells and whistles, high resolution textures, high polygon assets and cpu bound events such as better and more ai, as well as other cpu bound features. This will run at an average resolution of 4k but will make use of other features such as dynamic resolution etc.
We move down to Lockhart, and this is where people get confused. Now, we have a theoretical system that has less memory and a slower GPU, meaning lower tf. However the system architecture is the same modern one, the SSD is the same, the cpu is the same. These last two are important. Actual Game medium is not a concern here, be it disk or download, As performance between the two is the same.
Now, on the lockhart spec, because it’s the same architecture, it can run EXACTLY the same game, at the same resolution and same quality as the SX. However, the performance would, quite obviously, drop to a stupid level. This is basic stuff at this point.
So what do you do? Well, the cpu is the same, so anything cpu bound stays exactly the same, and won’t make a blind bit of difference.But GPU grunt is lower, so you will reduce resolution first to 1080p (as this is a 1080p machine anyway), and then reduce fidelity in other areas once you’re there, however, the resolution drop alone will free up enough resources for the game to pretty much fall exactly in line, performance wise. But there are other areas to reduce, such as overly complex RT elements and shadow mapping etc etc, all of which can be reduced further and have near ZERO visible fidelity reduction due to the drop in resolution.
However, again, what about memory? Well, because you’ve dropped your base rendering resolution, you’ve actually freed up a lot of memory and will no longer get thrashing, so you could have 12gb instead of 16 here and not even need to touch asset quality or lod.
The SSD is the same, meaning all target losing and streaming is the same over both unite.
Ergo, the Lockhart will run SX quality games at a reduced resolution and possible few smaller changes, with no real serious input needed for the developer. This part is important. Digital Foundry released a video just the other day about Doom on pc and how they can make a much slower card run at a near enough locked 60fps just using the same settings but adaptive resolution ALONE. Take a look.
Now then, we could to Xbox one, and this is where things get fucked up. Because have you have so many different things, such as a mechanical drive, or a slow ass Jaguar, that you can’t just lower the asset quality. Here, you will likely see games being made specially for this system, under the same sku. You will see things like COD Ghosts, and a Forza Horizon 2; That is, games that are essentially the same game, but made from the ground up for the lowest system. There is no other way to get the game working else.
This is why they made such a huge deal about their asset delivery system.
This is how this shit works. It’s not difficult. But I understand that you need something to take your rage and anger out on, so whatever, have at it. But why would a company put so much money into R&D for a massive 12tf system, just for them to only use the grunt of a 4k system
THINK.
Series X > LockHart >>> Xbox one
On this chain, Xbox one X is irrelevant because it will essentially run the xbox one data at a higher resolution.
Let’s start at the top, Series X. Games will be made for Series X as a base. They will take advantage of the 12tf of power, and include all the visual bells and whistles, high resolution textures, high polygon assets and cpu bound events such as better and more ai, as well as other cpu bound features. This will run at an average resolution of 4k but will make use of other features such as dynamic resolution etc.
We move down to Lockhart, and this is where people get confused. Now, we have a theoretical system that has less memory and a slower GPU, meaning lower tf. However the system architecture is the same modern one, the SSD is the same, the cpu is the same. These last two are important. Actual Game medium is not a concern here, be it disk or download, As performance between the two is the same.
Now, on the lockhart spec, because it’s the same architecture, it can run EXACTLY the same game, at the same resolution and same quality as the SX. However, the performance would, quite obviously, drop to a stupid level. This is basic stuff at this point.
So what do you do? Well, the cpu is the same, so anything cpu bound stays exactly the same, and won’t make a blind bit of difference.But GPU grunt is lower, so you will reduce resolution first to 1080p (as this is a 1080p machine anyway), and then reduce fidelity in other areas once you’re there, however, the resolution drop alone will free up enough resources for the game to pretty much fall exactly in line, performance wise. But there are other areas to reduce, such as overly complex RT elements and shadow mapping etc etc, all of which can be reduced further and have near ZERO visible fidelity reduction due to the drop in resolution.
However, again, what about memory? Well, because you’ve dropped your base rendering resolution, you’ve actually freed up a lot of memory and will no longer get thrashing, so you could have 12gb instead of 16 here and not even need to touch asset quality or lod.
The SSD is the same, meaning all target losing and streaming is the same over both unite.
Ergo, the Lockhart will run SX quality games at a reduced resolution and possible few smaller changes, with no real serious input needed for the developer. This part is important. Digital Foundry released a video just the other day about Doom on pc and how they can make a much slower card run at a near enough locked 60fps just using the same settings but adaptive resolution ALONE. Take a look.
Now then, we could to Xbox one, and this is where things get fucked up. Because have you have so many different things, such as a mechanical drive, or a slow ass Jaguar, that you can’t just lower the asset quality. Here, you will likely see games being made specially for this system, under the same sku. You will see things like COD Ghosts, and a Forza Horizon 2; That is, games that are essentially the same game, but made from the ground up for the lowest system. There is no other way to get the game working else.
This is why they made such a huge deal about their asset delivery system.
This is how this shit works. It’s not difficult. But I understand that you need something to take your rage and anger out on, so whatever, have at it. But why would a company put so much money into R&D for a massive 12tf system, just for them to only use the grunt of a 4k system
THINK.
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
How the actual fuck
Like
Nani?
saintjules
Member
There was a rumor some time ago predicting at least one more wired article. So buried on top with other rumors, probably hard to find now. Oh wait, it was from Pastebin..The state of next-gen: Examining the battlegrounds on which the PS5 and Xbox Series X will fight
With a new round of consoles drawing near, Edge examines the battlegrounds on which the next generation will fight
Apparently there's rumours of an imminent PS5 wired cover...
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
This is the other issue. We don’t even know if it exists. However what we do know about it thag seems to be repeated over and over is that it’s a lower TF machine with lower memory (obviously), but with the same cpu and ssd. That pretty much means that it will utterly
Fine.
But people see a 4tf or 6tf number and shit themselves because the Xbox one x was a whopping 6tf, so how could it ever be decent?! Without thinking of the stuff the tf count doubt cover or the updated architecture.
wowbaggerBR
Member
Exactly, Jaguar cores were as great as a lesser SKU for next gen. And as Jaguar cores didn't hinder game design, so Lockhart.
For sure, games scaled down for lesser hardware will surely give developers all the freedom and headroom they need. Lockhart will be amazing.
nikolino840
Member
Not more then hellblade 2 trailer...in the thread many says that Is impossibile with a price of a console,fake, becouse was at 24fps
HawarMiran
Banned
HBO could make a story focused on entirely new characters.
Power of the cloud
How the actual fuck
Like
Nani?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Is it possible it's a similar CPU, but just downclocked? Because no way it's the same CPU, but will sell for $299.
Neo Blaster
Member
For 3rd party games, yes. But don't forget about 1st party exclusives for PS5, they'll save the day!!
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Man, this thread is moving fast! Finally caught up. A few thoughts:
1. Console manufacturing supply chain news
2. AMD Financial Analyst Day
3. Lockhart
1. Console manufacturing supply chain news
2. AMD Financial Analyst Day
3. Lockhart
T
Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
MarkMe2525
Banned
You proved he doesn't like pc games?.... Are you sure about that?
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
4.2 GCN tf lmao
Shmunter
Member
So here’s the chain of things, and how they will play out.
Series X > LockHart >>> Xbox one
On this chain, Xbox one X is irrelevant because it will essentially run the xbox one data at a higher resolution.
Let’s start at the top, Series X. Games will be made for Series X as a base. They will take advantage of the 12tf of power, and include all the visual bells and whistles, high resolution textures, high polygon assets and cpu bound events such as better and more ai, as well as other cpu bound features. This will run at an average resolution of 4k but will make use of other features such as dynamic resolution etc.
We move down to Lockhart, and this is where people get confused. Now, we have a theoretical system that has less memory and a slower GPU, meaning lower tf. However the system architecture is the same modern one, the SSD is the same, the cpu is the same. These last two are important. Actual Game medium is not a concern here, be it disk or download, As performance between the two is the same.
Now, on the lockhart spec, because it’s the same architecture, it can run EXACTLY the same game, at the same resolution and same quality as the SX. However, the performance would, quite obviously, drop to a stupid level. This is basic stuff at this point.
So what do you do? Well, the cpu is the same, so anything cpu bound stays exactly the same, and won’t make a blind bit of difference.But GPU grunt is lower, so you will reduce resolution first to 1080p (as this is a 1080p machine anyway), and then reduce fidelity in other areas once you’re there, however, the resolution drop alone will free up enough resources for the game to pretty much fall exactly in line, performance wise. But there are other areas to reduce, such as overly complex RT elements and shadow mapping etc etc, all of which can be reduced further and have near ZERO visible fidelity reduction due to the drop in resolution.
However, again, what about memory? Well, because you’ve dropped your base rendering resolution, you’ve actually freed up a lot of memory and will no longer get thrashing, so you could have 12gb instead of 16 here and not even need to touch asset quality or lod.
The SSD is the same, meaning all target losing and streaming is the same over both unite.
Ergo, the Lockhart will run SX quality games at a reduced resolution and possible few smaller changes, with no real serious input needed for the developer. This part is important. Digital Foundry released a video just the other day about Doom on pc and how they can make a much slower card run at a near enough locked 60fps just using the same settings but adaptive resolution ALONE. Take a look.
Now then, we could to Xbox one, and this is where things get fucked up. Because have you have so many different things, such as a mechanical drive, or a slow ass Jaguar, that you can’t just lower the asset quality. Here, you will likely see games being made specially for this system, under the same sku. You will see things like COD Ghosts, and a Forza Horizon 2; That is, games that are essentially the same game, but made from the ground up for the lowest system. There is no other way to get the game working else.
This is why they made such a huge deal about their asset delivery system.
This is how this shit works. It’s not difficult. But I understand that you need something to take your rage and anger out on, so whatever, have at it. But why would a company put so much money into R&D for a massive 12tf system, just for them to only use the grunt of a 4k system
THINK.
I’m thinking...thinking.
And still can’t think how XSX is the guaranteed baseline with no possibility of it being the other way around, at least some of the time. Some kind of mandate?
I can’t think why some dev under time and budget pressure will go gangbusters on XSX and then spend additional time optimising for lockheart because his 1080p XSX Gfx masterpiece (Checkerborded to 4K) would need to be scaled to 480p 20fps on lockheart otherwise.
I too wish we could live in a utopia where time and money is irrelevant and the concept of least resistance does not apply.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And will the bandwidth from the RAM to APU be the same in both consoles?
MarkMe2525
Banned
Christ... people are so damn lazy in this forum.
Xbox Scarlett’s Low-End Lockhart Model Reportedly Has Significantly Less RAM than Anaconda
Xbox Scarlett developers reportedly aren't exactly thrilled with entry-level Lockhart model. Find out why they're not happy.wccftech.com
Ohhhh so now DF is a reputable source... I'm not sure what your post history regarding DF is but many many people here say they are to be ignored.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Neo Blaster
Member
As long Lockart has exactly the same CPU and SSD as XSX, agreed.
Jonsoncao
Banned
How the actual fuck
Like
Nani?
More like "Nani? Navi? Nabi? "
Jokes aside, I am not following the news recently, are these images from the same game (assumingly an early on-stage demo vs production version)?
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