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[Grodiak]

Without reading the thread the last couple of weeks, why is it still open if we already know the specs?

I, for one, hope it never dies. The endless amount of entertainment it has provided in this waiting period is unmatched! I do, however, have to say that when you are pages and pages behind, and the drama is getting juicy - it is a MAJOR spoiler to have people's nicks be crossed over with the word "banned" underneath. Kind of gives away the ending.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

“I think what you saw [with the PS5 reveal] was the unfortunate by-product of a GDC talk being turned into a marketing event. I loved Sony’s talk, I think they’ve got some cool tech. I personally think we have a better console, we’re not worried about the power narrative.”

Microsoft Exec: “We have a better console; we’re not worried about power” - ThisGenGaming

We now know about the raw specs of both upcoming next generation consoles and on paper Microsoft seems to have the PlayStation console beat. However, rumblings have permeated through the internet that efficiency, development ease and a faster SSD might make the raw spec gap negligible. That was...

thisgengaming.com

Damn! It seems Crytek’s developer comments really rubbed some Microsoft folks the wrong way. Some developers can behave like the worst fanboys at times.

So suddenly they are not worried about power narrative, because they have the better console? Hmm? Explains why that interview got pulled down.

The Most Powerful Xbox Ever
Early on in the design of Xbox Series X, the team was determined to deliver the most powerful Xbox ever, which opened a series of discussions about how to define “power” in the next generation of consoles. In past generations, power has been defined primarily by graphics innovation: from the transition from 8 bit to 16 bit graphics, 2D to 3D, SD to HD and finally to 4K.

Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation - Xbox Wire

A few months ago, we revealed Xbox Series X, our fastest, most powerful console ever, designed for a console generation that has you, the player, at its center. When it is released this holiday season, Xbox Series X will set a new bar for performance, speed and compatibility, all while allowing...

news.xbox.com

It's embarrassing, really.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

"Lower" specced, doesn't mean "lower end parts".....

OK.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I created it. I have the original .odg file. You're wrong.

I created the above .odg diagram with RDNA's 64-bit memory controllers attached to duel-linked GDDR6 chips


Four 16bit memory channels are attached to one RDNA's 64 bit memory channel.

Look it'd be neat if they did something like this to work around that possible quirk, but the problem is we've seen the chips on the XSX motherboard and they're arranged three to one side, three to the other side, and four along the top. The graph here doesn't match up with the actual PCB's chip layout, and we can assume the four chips along the top are the 1 GB modules.

I'm not completely dismissing your general idea, but it wouldn't be using what's suggested in that graph because the module layout on the graph doesn't match the actual module layout on the real motherboard.

I'm saying neither are SSG because SSG is for PC-based workstations... but the basic concept of extending the VRAM through SSD, both next-gen system are doing this; and due to the customizations and speed, PS5's solution seems a lot better than Xbox's.

I've read that MS were originally intending to include a normal HDD in XSX and then they went to a 1.4 - 1.8 GB/s SSD, before finally deciding to settle on what they have now based on catching wind of how much attention Sony was putting into their SSD.

Basically, having followed the rumors and progression of leaks of XSX, the image forms of XSX's SSD not being as integral to the design of their system as PS5.

As a rumor, that sounds....iffy. It's kind of in the same ballpark as the rumors Sony upped the PS5 GPU clock in panic to close some of the TF delta with XSX.

I doubt either of those rumors are actually true. Also while I expect PS5 to have the SSD advantage regardless of what additional we find out, we don't have all the details on XSX's setup yet. Just a couple days ago they just iterated on the expansion card having the same performance as the internal drive. It might be possible they've designed a setup where if the user has an expansion card, the OS can leverage it for dynamic performance gains in terms of data caching and streaming with the internal and external drives in tandem (it's just that games wouldn't be able to program against the internal/external setup since not everyone is guaranteed to have one...or maybe they can, if it ends up being little costs in labor and time to do).

There's other parts to it as well that we don't really know a lot on that could bring the SSD performance between the two closer to spec parity at least in some ways, but that's just me keeping the door open in expectations with that.

Yes but 448GB/s was likely not enough to feed the XSX GPU in their tests so they went with this setup
Also something interesting ree users mentioned how both Sony & MS came about to the same amount of GB/s per TF, was likely a performance sweet spot where extra bandwidth didn't justify costs

True; I was focusing more on the physical memory amounts there, though. 560 GB/s gives a bandwidth advantage but only on 10 GB of physical memory, and of course there's still the contention issues between GPU, CPU etc. Basically the PS5 doesn't really have to "choose" memory amounts in its case.

Say PS5 uses 2 GB for the OS, and the CPU wants to use 3 GB of physical memory for something. That's 11 GB to GPU. XSX has 2.5 GB for OS (in the slower pool, MOTL), and same scenario, CPU wants 3 GB of physical memory for a task. 10.5 GB for the GPU, but 500 MB of that will have to sit in the "slower" pool. Or, the dev can put that CPU data in the 10 GB pool but now that leaves GPU with just 7 GB of data to work on.

I wanted to bring the OS back up because one thing we already know is that the OS sits in the slower pool (2nd 1 GB partition of 2x 2 GB modules) of memory. Already, if the system needs to do any OS calls, it has to switch to the slower pool anyway because that's where the OS data is at. That's part of the reason I've been speculating that there are probably design elements in place to allow for rapid cycle access between the fast and slow pools. There should also be ways for games to shuffle data between the fast and slow memory pools as needed, minus 2.5 GB for the OS.

Those will have to be ways for devs to maximize the physical memory amounts, a bit more work than what they have to do on PS5 since the bandwidth and memory setup are more straightforward there. But it will be interesting to see when games finally do that.

 

[Darius87]

You wanted to say "than"?

go read your windows central news, if you read it enough times it might become true.

 

[Gediminas]

“I think what you saw [with the PS5 reveal] was the unfortunate by-product of a GDC talk being turned into a marketing event. I loved Sony’s talk, I think they’ve got some cool tech. I personally think we have a better console, we’re not worried about the power narrative.”

Microsoft Exec: “We have a better console; we’re not worried about power” - ThisGenGaming

We now know about the raw specs of both upcoming next generation consoles and on paper Microsoft seems to have the PlayStation console beat. However, rumblings have permeated through the internet that efficiency, development ease and a faster SSD might make the raw spec gap negligible. That was...

thisgengaming.com

Damn! It seems Crytek’s developer comments really rubbed some Microsoft folks the wrong way. Some developers can behave like the worst fanboys at times.

damage control. they shut Ali up, who spoke the truth. and after that trying to downplay PS5 and oversell xbox. they even tried to dig at Dualsense reveal. they are just

 

[DeepEnigma]

MarkMe2525 More about the misleading Microsoft VRAM talk:

That part with Schreier... is that what he sounds like?

Of course he does.

 

[pasterpl]

damage control. they shut Ali up, who spoke the truth. and after that trying to downplay PS5 and oversell xbox. they even tried to dig at Dualsense reveal. they are just

#freeAli

 

[Bo_Hazem]

That part with Schreier... is that what he sounds like?

Of course he does.

Things are getting more interesting, as Microsoft exec saying "we’re not worried about the power narrative" while it IS their core campaign focus. That thin ice they've been parading on is melting the more devs speak out.

 

[bitbydeath]

What exactly did the Crytek Dev say? Something about Sony that Sony haven't revealed yet?

Mentioned a feature they hadn’t announced yet which was the ability to switch between games instantly.

 

[ksdixon]

Mentioned a feature they hadn’t announced yet which was the ability to switch between games instantly.

I thought we knew that? Or was it just something similar? I thought Sony said long ago we could keep several games in quick resume at once (possibly across console restarts)?

 

[bitbydeath]

I thought we knew that? Or was it just something similar? I thought Sony said long ago we could keep several games in quick resume at once (possibly across console restarts)?

AFAIK only MS had revealed that feature so far.

 

[Gamerguy84]

Has anyone mentioned if the two consoles will use AMD's CAS (Contrast Aware Sharpening) and RIS (Radeon Image Sharpening). From what I just got done reading they seem to be similar to DLSS.

 

[M-V2]

 

[MasterCornholio]

[/QUOTE]

Mentioned a feature they hadn’t announced yet which was the ability to switch between games instantly.

It could be possible that the PS5 doesn't have the feature. But in Sonys defense that doesn't sound like something that can't be added with an update.

With that said I would be surprised if Sony didn't have a feature like that at launch.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Has anyone mentioned if the two consoles will use AMD's CAS (Contrast Aware Sharpening) and RIS (Radeon Image Sharpening). From what I just got done reading they seem to be similar to DLSS.

From the very little I've read it's somewhat like checkerboard rendering, which is already in consoles.

I'm not an expert so I have no idea which is better. Or more likely, both have upsides and downsides compared to each other.

 

[Gamernyc78]

It could be possible that the PS5 doesn't have the feature. But in Sonys defense that doesn't sound like something that can't be added with an update.

With that said I would be surprised if Sony didn't have a feature like that at launch.
[/QUOTE]

That featured was rumored to be in ps5 for awhile also the feature of picture within picture game thing that was rumored awhile ago. Also ability to edit segments of a game and share it as sort of a demo to send to friends.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It could be possible that the PS5 doesn't have the feature. But in Sonys defense that doesn't sound like something that can't be added with an update.

With that said I would be surprised if Sony didn't have a feature like that at launch.

That featured was rumored to be in ps5 for awhile also the feature of picture within picture game thing that was rumored awhile ago. Also ability to edit segments of a game and share it as sort of a demo to send to friends.
[/QUOTE]

"Also ability to edit segments of a game and share it as sort of a demo to send to friends."

That would be massive if true.

 

[Gamernyc78]

That featured was rumored to be in ps5 for awhile also the feature of picture within picture game thing that was rumored awhile ago. Also ability to edit segments of a game and share it as sort of a demo to send to friends.

"Also ability to edit segments of a game and share it as sort of a demo to send to friends."

That would be massive if true.
[/QUOTE]

Tht shit would be bonkers lol I still sit in awe of what thy accomplished with share play. Playing a game and passing the controller to a friend to play tht same game or adding them to mp without them having the game is fucking crazy and works great on my connection.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Let's make it simple:

More SSD speed = more detailed assets and graphics in a specific field of view = faster shifting to another angle (loading new stuff + offloading older stuff faster) = less stress on CPU/GPU and maximizing efficiency = 4K and high fps with no compromises.

XSX can compensate with more TF, but the ram is still problematic, plus if they wanna catch up with the deep 3D audio then they need to spare more room in the CPU/GPU that their extra chip just can't handle.

Verdict: Most/all 3rd party devs will make multiplats look the same with same FPS, and some taking advantage of the superior sound quality in the PS5 like DICE: (timestamped)

Again, Alot of assumptions. You have no idea what the dedicated audio chip in XSX is capable of. Your speculating that streaming assets directly off of ssd requires more than 1.5-2GBps which and has shown to be adequate. Everything you stated is literally made up.

You may end up being right, but at this point in time there is simply not enough info to come to the conclusions that you have came to.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Again, Alot of assumptions. You have no idea what the dedicated audio chip in XSX is capable of. Your speculating that streaming assets directly off of ssd requires more than 1.5-2GBps which and has shown to be adequate. Everything you stated is literally made up.

You may end up being right, but at this point in time there is simply not enough info to come to the conclusions that you have came to.

I'm not sure if you've been keeping up with this thread, but it seems you didn't, which is ok. How about not saying I have no idea and try to search the two keywords (Project Acoustic+Tempest) and read all the quotations and so you may understand what those conclusions are coming from?

And about the 1.5-2GB/s is probably good for current gen standards, as Cerny pointed out that 8GB/s* should be the standard. With PS5 hitting the speed of 22GB/s, that translates into 2GB per 0.1 sec, which is insanely fast to provide assets as you turn, or an average of around 1GB per 0.1 sec. With less duplicates and more unique assets. True next gen games should provide more unique NPC's and environments, turning around fast would be interesting in XSX.

Timestamped, listen carefully:




EDIT: Thanks, David Ricardo

 

[CrysisFreak]

Oh man the wait for PS5 is really taking a toll on my life. Looking forward to it so much, I feel like I'm not fully living yet. I know, not a great mindset but I can't help it.
If it gets delayed because of the old 'rona I will actually go nuclear.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Oh man the wait for PS5 is really taking a toll on my life. Looking forward to it so much, I feel like I'm not fully living yet. I know, not a great mindset but I can't help it.
If it gets delayed because of the old 'rona I will actually go nuclear.

It's funny that I didn't start Final Fantasy 7 yet. Time to take a break and start the game.

 

[David Ricardo]

I'm not sure if you've been keeping up with this thread, but it seems you didn't, which is ok. How about not saying I have no idea and try to search the two keywords (Project Acoustic+Tempest) and read all the quotations and so you may understand what those conclusions are coming from?

And about the 1.5-2GB/s is probably good for current gen standards, as Cerny pointed out that 4GB/s should be the standard. With PS5 hitting the speed of 22GB/s, that translates into 2GB per 0.1 sec, which is insanely fast to provide assets as you turn, or an average of around 1GB per 0.1 sec. With less duplicates and more unique assets. True next gen games should provide more unique NPC's and environments, turning around fast would be interesting in XSX.

Timestamped, listen carefully:

I listened carefully and he said you can load 4 GBs of textures in half a second. So that's a speed of 8GB/s.

 

[GetSchwifty]

I listened carefully and he said you can load 4 GBs of textures in half a second. So that's a speed of 8GB/s.

Sounds about right for next-gen.

 

[Dunnas]

I'm not sure if you've been keeping up with this thread, but it seems you didn't, which is ok. How about not saying I have no idea and try to search the two keywords (Project Acoustic+Tempest) and read all the quotations and so you may understand what those conclusions are coming from.

And about the 1.5-2GB/s is probably good for current gen standards, as Cerny pointed out that 4GB/s should be the standard. With PS5 hitting the speed of 22GB/s, that translates into 2GB per 0.1 sec, which is insanely fast to provide assets as you turn, or an average of around 1GB per 0.1 sec. With less duplicates and more unique assets. True next gen games should provide more unique NPC's and environments, turning around fast would be interesting in XSX.

Timestamped, listen carefully:

Yep, turning around in a game will certainly be an exciting new experience for all the lucky ps5 owners.

I guess since I’ll still be buying the Xbox first I’ll just have to suffer through being able to only move forward in the exact same direction the whole time, like how it works on current gen consoles and all console gens past. It’s a shame that MS just stuck with the same slow storage that won’t allow for such a groundbreaking revolution in gaming. What is MS thinking?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I listened carefully and he said you can load 4 GBs of textures in half a second. So that's a speed of 8GB/s.

Thanks for your correction. And it can hit around ~20GB/s randomly as well as seen by our friend BGs.

 

[GetSchwifty]

This looks really good.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Yep, turning around in a game will certainly be an exciting new experience for all the lucky ps5 owners.

I guess since I’ll still be buying the Xbox first I’ll just have to suffer through being able to only move forward in the exact same direction the whole time, like how it works on current gen consoles and all console gens past. It’s a shame that MS just stuck with the same slow storage that won’t allow for such a groundbreaking revolution in gaming. What is MS thinking?

You're not getting the bigger picture, that's when XSX needs to brute force its 12.1TF and use more CPU to compensate for that speed. Overall, the end results should be similar/close on multiplats, as XSX will never provide true next gen gaming with PC tied to it (96% mid-potato specs) or XB1.

 

[01011001]

You're not getting the bigger picture, that's when XSX needs to brute force it's 12.1TF and use more CPU to compensate for that speed. Overall, the end results should be similar/close on multiplats, as XSX will never provide true next gen gaming with PC tied to it or XB1.

jesus christ... I don't even know where to start with this... like what?

 

[David Ricardo]

Thanks for your correction. And it can hit around ~20GB/s randomly as well as seen by our friend BGs.

BGs clarified he hasn't claimed he has witnessed speeds of ~20GB/s. He was just commenting on what was theoretically possible.

That I say that the theoretical peak is +20GB/s does not mean that it is a constant or that I have seen it. Let's try not to read beyond my words.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Edit: erased response because the debate is pointless.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I have not been keeping up with the thread as much as before the reveal. Cerny is just a man. He is not the end all be all source of info when it comes to utilizing SSD on a gaming platform. He also has an agenda. Now he does seem to be an excellent engineer but he also said 8 TF is minimum needed for 4k gaming. X1X has shown differently and now TF dont matter. Just wanted to point out that he is always going to skew the message to benefit Sony.

I think people forget that he is trying to sell you something. So regardless if Cerny says it requires 8 gigabits per second, we know that similar technology only requires 2 gigabits per second. The proof already exists, Cerny can't just make that go away by saying differently.

It's Gigabytes, not Gigabits. But seems like you don't trust him, and it's ok. Enjoy.

 

[Evilms]

 

[GetSchwifty]

I have not been keeping up with the thread as much as before the reveal. Cerny is just a man. He is not the end all be all source of info when it comes to utilizing SSD on a gaming platform. He also has an agenda. Now he does seem to be an excellent engineer but he also said 8 TF is minimum needed for 4k gaming. X1X has shown differently and now TF dont matter. Just wanted to point out that he is always going to skew the message to benefit Sony.

I think people forget that he is trying to sell you something. So regardless if Cerny says it requires 8 gigabits per second, we know that similar technology only requires 2 gigabits per second. The proof already exists, Cerny can't just make that go away by saying differently.

This is ridiculous. X1X is far from being the "no compromises" native 4K gaming machine like MS wanted people to believe. It looks like Cerny was absolutely right and that 8TF GCN would have served the X1X a lot better, instead of those small handful of games that struggled to even maintain good framerates at 4K.

 

[David Ricardo]

I have not been keeping up with the thread as much as before the reveal. Cerny is just a man. He is not the end all be all source of info when it comes to utilizing SSD on a gaming platform. He also has an agenda. Now he does seem to be an excellent engineer but he also said 8 TF is minimum needed for 4k gaming. X1X has shown differently and now TF dont matter. Just wanted to point out that he is always going to skew the message to benefit Sony.

I think people forget that he is trying to sell you something. So regardless if Cerny says it requires 8 gigabits per second, we know that similar technology only requires 2 gigabits per second. The proof already exists, Cerny can't just make that go away by saying differently.

Cerny said 8 teraflops were needed to get 4k across the board. Not all One X games are 4k native.

 

[GetSchwifty]

Damn, those look sweet. There seems to be a never ending stream of these custom controllers.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Cerny said 8 teraflops were needed to get 4k across the board. Not all One X games are 4k native.

TF don't matter

 

[GetSchwifty]

TF don't matter

Maximum delusion.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Tht crimson and gold is a thing of beauty

 

[MarkMe2525]

This is ridiculous. X1X is far from being the "no compromises" native 4K gaming machine like MS wanted people to believe. It looks like Cerny was absolutely right and that 8TF GCN would have served the X1X a lot better, instead of those small handful of games that struggled to even maintain good framerates at 4K.

Where are these qualifiers coming from because I sure didn't bring them up.

 

[GetSchwifty]

Where are these qualifiers coming from because I sure didn't bring them up.

The qualifier of "no compromises"? Try Microsoft marketing department.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

This is the only real next gen game so far we know about:




It uses no ray tracing, same with Flight Simulator, but it's just beautiful enough as it is. It just looks bland and gimmicky so far, I hope it matures into something big. Will get it on PC if it'll not be available on PS5.

 

[SonGoku]

It's funny that I didn't start Final Fantasy 7 yet. Time to take a break and start the game.

Wait for the patch

 

[MarkMe2525]

The qualifier of "no compromises"? Try Microsoft marketing department.

Dude I'm not a Microsoft rep, you can't make someone else's qualifiers mine. I think you think I'm trying to say something that I'm not

 

[GetSchwifty]

Wait for the patch

What does it need a patch for?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Wait for the patch

Is it broken? I buy my games digitally so I think I need no patch?

 

[GetSchwifty]

Dude I'm not a Microsoft rep, you can't make someone else's qualifiers mine. I think you think I'm trying to say something that I'm not

Mate, you're trying to diss Cerny for saying full 4K gaming needs 8TF... RE3 released on X1X with terrible framerates. It got patched today and the resolution was reduced down to 1620P. Same as the PS4 Pro version. Do you not think if X1X had 8TF it would have been able to run RE3 at full 4K/60? I do.

 

[BGs]

BGs clarified he hasn't claimed he has witnessed speeds of ~20GB/s. He was just commenting on what was theoretically possible.

Normal will be 8-9GB/s. But SONY uses its own protocol that supports 6 Tiers of data priorities instead of 2 of NVMe, together with the inclusion of the Kraken chip for hardware accelerated decompression that is integrated in the main SoC, they can manage to handle rates of up to 22GB/s at best.

 

[SonGoku]

What does it need a patch for?

Is it broken? I buy my games digitally so I think I need no patch?

Scuffed LOD transitions = Ugly textures
edit: not sure they'll fix it but im hoping they do