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[ANIMAL1975]

Back to PS5 / Xbox talk:

Anyone else got a sneaking suspicion that MS is going to go all out this gen? I reckon they're going to push more RAM, a faster CPU, and possibly even attempt to undercut the PS5 in price:

PS5 / Xbox Scarlett

RAM: 16+4 / 24+4
CPU: 2.8Ghz / 3.2Ghz
GPU: 10TF / 11TF
Price: £449 / £399

(and then Sony will be forced to lower their price before launch)

MS would aim to make up the difference by luring more gamers into their service offerings.

This time Sony comes from a generation that didn't had the losses per unit of the ps3, that psplus was mandatory for multiplayer (on top of that a streaming service with already a million subscribers), and that has recently passed the mark of 100m ps4 sold to consumers a year away from the next Playstation. So who do you think is more keen to, or in better position to go all out in hardware and or undercut in price?

 

[TBiddy]

This time Sony comes from a generation that didn't had the losses per unit of the ps3, that psplus was mandatory for multiplayer (on top of that a streaming service with already a million subscribers), and that has recently passed the mark of 100m ps4 sold to consumers a year away from the next Playstation. So who do you think is more keen to, or in better position to go all out in hardware and or undercut in price?

Definitely Microsoft. Sony has the better brand and can easily afford to be a bit slower and/or a bit more expensive. If Microsoft launches a slower and/or more expensive console than Sony, they've lost already. Just look at this generation.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Definitely Microsoft. Sony has the better brand and can easily afford to be a bit slower and/or a bit more expensive. If Microsoft launches a slower and/or more expensive console than Sony, they've lost already. Just look at this generation.

Step 1 : Microsoft needs to deliver a beast of a machine that looks modern at a good price with 1 month of free services.
Step 2: Exclusives that are worth a damn in setting and story and don't have that layer of cheese to them in the writing. Gears was a pretty game, but the writing was absolutely mediocre.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Definitely Microsoft. Sony has the better brand and can easily afford to be a bit slower and/or a bit more expensive. If Microsoft launches a slower and/or more expensive console than Sony, they've lost already. Just look at this generation.

Basically this. Plus, Sony's been showing some of their old arrogant hubris recently. There's been a number of publicly-noted departures recently, and they're letting people strongly affiliated with them like Kojima run their mouth about political nonsense (I'm half-expecting him to write an editorial poking fun at MGS fans who didn't like Death Stranding and call them bigots).

We all know that when PS has runaway success, Sony's arrogance starts rearing its head. It took a little longer this gen, but IMO, it's back. And more than that, why wouldn't we WANT MS to get competitive with them? That just forces Sony to play ball, and that makes things better for gamers. 2020's gonna have a fair number of surprises and I think a few of them may swing momentum the way a lot of people aren't expecting ATM.

Step 2: Exclusives that are worth a damn in setting and story and don't have that layer of cheese to them in the writing. Gears was a pretty game, but the writing was absolutely mediocre.

This is really subjective; some of the best games ever made have cheesy writing to them. Resident Evil, Silent Hill 2, Dead Rising etc.

I'd rather a game have some writing in it that can lighten the mood and crack some fun into the serious moments instead of being completely pretentious and loving the smell of its own farts (and using famous actors or big orchestral scores to cover up how shallow its use of themes and concepts actually is).

 

[Anki]

I would really like to buy the next gen xbox but I'am also interested in VR, and so far MS doesn't have any plans to support VR which is bummer.

 

[Racer!]

Right, but my point was proving that the fixed target has an advantage by showing a game that uses the advantage. It really doesn't make much sense to praise the efficiency of the consoles when it's not used in a game. We can't just assume this is the case since there are a lot of cross-platform games and none of them have shown any advantage in efficiency.

Well, you could try to run RDR2 30fps at near 4K high quality, on a nvidia 1060 with 6,5 jaguar cores @ 2ghz (on a pc setup). Theres your answer right there.

 

[pawel86ck]

Yes. And that is AT ALL FEASIBLE for a concrete machine.
Which consoles are.
But PCs are not.

So have your slider with ineffective code and get over it.



Crytek is an example of something NOT being optimized, to run smoothly. The main notable part of it was obnoxious hardware requirements due to it.

Currently you can run crysis 1 on 8-16 thread CPU, yet game will sometimes dip below 60fps. That's because game use only one or two threads, so of course there's a big room for optimization and performance improvement. However back then the vast majority of people still had dual core CPU's, so I can understand why crysis (cryengine 2) wasnt build to scale on multiple cores like for example crysis 2 or 3 did. But guys from crytek optimized their game the best they could with technology they had.

Crysis 1 was extremely demanding, but IMO requirements were justified. Game looked really amazing, and for me it was like a next gen experience. It took many years before other developers started making comparable games, and there are even some more recent games like for example ARK with worse graphics and much higher hardware requirements.

In 2008 I had Q6600 @ 3.2 GHz and 8800 Ultra 768MB. Crysis 1 run with around 30 fps in moded DX9 (unlocked DX10 details) 1680x1050, or around 40-50 fps at 720p. Basically speaking it was like console experience . I could run crysis 1 with 60fps for example at med/high details, however I never wanted to, because even at 30fps game was really responsive to me (unlike crysis 3 in dx11, where mouse movement feels really slow and heavy even at 50fps) and very high details looked just insane. The only problem I really had with crysis 1 was memory leak. Sometimes after for example 2 hours of gameplay performance was cut in half, and I had to restart the game in order to play with 30 fps again.

Later on when I have finally upgraded my 8800U to GTX 680 2GB I have realized what the problem was. I had these memory problems. simply becaus game was using way more VRAM than 768MB. On GTX 680 2GB I have never seen memory leak problems, so again, I cant blame crytek for that, because I could lower some details on my old 768MB card, and game would also run without memory leak problems. Very high settings in this game were clearly build with future hardware in mind .

My 3570 and 680 run crysis 1 at 1680x1050 with around 70-90fps for around 99% of time, so game was almost perfectly playable, because there were very rare dips below 60fps (my i5 4.5GHz single thread performance wasnt always enough to brute force engine limits). If crytek would port crysis 1 to their new engine and optimize it for CURRENT PC's, crysis 1 would run at 60fps all the time (probably even 200 fps), but that's not something they could do in 2005-2008.

 

[llien]

But guys from crytek optimized their game the best they could with technology they had.

And this conclusion is based on what?

At this point I'm lost what you are arguing about.
And of all "what could it possibly be" variants, none is really that relevant to this thread.
So let's just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[FrostyJ93]

 

[bitbydeath]

Definitely Microsoft. Sony has the better brand and can easily afford to be a bit slower and/or a bit more expensive. If Microsoft launches a slower and/or more expensive console than Sony, they've lost already. Just look at this generation.

Are we just talking in America cause Microsoft has already lost worldwide, they have no appeal outside of America and only lost appeal over the course of this gen.

There is no winning for them even if they were 100 x more powerful because most aren’t interested in their western shooting games.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Well, you could try to run RDR2 30fps at near 4K high quality, on a nvidia 1060 with 6,5 jaguar cores @ 2ghz (on a pc setup). Theres your answer right there.

That's speculation. Without a presentable test, you can't make those claims.

 

[PaNaMa]

I feel like at e3, through inside sources, MS learned PS5 specs made Scarlett look underwhelming, and the reason MS has said fucking nothing about Scarlett ever since is because they are/were scrambling to get something into the final silicon to bridge the gap. We are inside 1 year(ish) to launch week so you have to think they are probably spec locked or will be any day now.

A glass half empty guy might think their silence is because they know they have the less powerful console, and if the specs got out early, the war is already lost. If they wait as long as possible to reveal, they can at least win people over with an almost as good console at $100 cheaper price tag, with game pass and xcloud or something.

A glass half full guy will have to explain his take to me, so I can also be optimistic about MS's silence.

 

[Imtjnotu]

I'd rather have the giant flying V over that trash

 

[FrostyJ93]

I'm fine with no Scarlett at X019. Xbox playon with cards close to their chest. They absolutely HAVE to get this right. If it has to wait until E3 so be it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm fine with no Scarlett at X019. Xbox playon with cards close to their chest. They absolutely HAVE to get this right. If it has to wait until E3 so be it.

It is also still to early to announce anything "meatier", nor would one actually be there. There is plenty of clock speed tweaking and bug fixes going on at the moment for both companies.

 

[FrostyJ93]

It is also still to early to announce anything "meatier", nor would one actually be there. There is plenty of clock speed tweaking and bug fixes going on at the moment for both companies.

They can easily wait till E3 Tbh. They can always talk about specs with DF and talk about the OS at Gamescom or Ignite or whatever.

 

[pawel86ck]

And this conclusion is based on what?

At this point I'm lost what you are arguing about.
And of all "what could it possibly be" variants, none is really that relevant to this thread.
So let's just agree to disagree and move on.

My conclusion is based on reality back then and that's the only reason why I think game was optimized. Crytek has build almost entire cryengine 2 before E3 2006 presentation, so that's probably even 2005, while gaming Quad core CPU's have launched in 2007 (even in 2008 the vast majority of people still had dual core CPU's). I'm reasonable and I dont like hating people for no real reason. So I dont blame crytek for not optimizing their engine for future multicore CPU's, and ESPECIALLY when no game back then on PC supported multicore CPU's correctly.

If game is demanding it doesnt mean is unoptimized. Crysis 1 was extremely demanding (of course maxed out, because with medium settings game run at 60fps even on my 8800), but at the same time HW requirements in crysis corresponded very well with amazing results. Look dude, even in 2015 some UE4 games like AKR not only looked worse compared to crysis 1, but run A LOT WORSE. That's a proof crysis 1 wasnt so badly optimizded as people say, however if you want to look at crysis 1 from current day perspective, you can of course see what could be more optimized for CURRENT hardware. In 2011 finally many people had Quad Core CPU's on PC, so Crytek build cryenginge 3 in order to support multicore CPU's correctly and they have use it in ther next game, Crysis 2.

Maybe Crytek ambitions were too high? Most gamers dont want to play with medium or high details, while maxed out settings in crysis required future GPU to run (although I must say I have really enjoyed playing crysis 1 maxed out on my PC even at 30fps). Like most people you probably think COD 4 was much more optimized, but you know what? This game looked dated compared to crysis 1 . Like I have explained in my previous post, I had very few issues playing the game when it launched, and on my next PC I could play in 60fps for 99% of time and even in 2012 crysis 1 looked amazing.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Xbox chief says Project Scarlett ‘will not be out of position on power or price’

https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14...-price-performance-ps5-phil-spencer-interview

Quote from article

While we know the basics about Project Scarlett, Microsoft isn’t ready to say much more at X019. I pressed Spencer several times on rumors about two consoles for the Project Scarlett release, and whether the lineup of Xbox One S, Xbox One X, and Project Scarlett will be a lot of choice for console shoppers in 2020. “We will talk about the SKU lineup and how it works,” says Spencer. “I think the root principle of we don’t want to confuse people, we share that.”

 

[bhunachicken]

There's been a few concept videos showing the digital display on the front of the console, showing some sort of status. I actually quite like that, even if it would turn out to be a bit of a gimmick.

It could show some notifications while the system is sleep mode, telling you that a patch has been installed, a game has downloaded, the level of charge left in the controller, that sort of thing.

 

[Racer!]

That's speculation. Without a presentable test, you can't make those claims.

Thats not speculation, thats an invitation for you to try.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Thats not speculation, thats an invitation for you to try.

Nah.. not worth the time invested really.

 

[Tarkus98]

This would be a rather horrible retail console design especially coming from Sony. Ugh.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Xbox chief says Project Scarlett ‘will not be out of position on power or price’

https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14...-price-performance-ps5-phil-spencer-interview

Quote from article

While we know the basics about Project Scarlett, Microsoft isn’t ready to say much more at X019. I pressed Spencer several times on rumors about two consoles for the Project Scarlett release, and whether the lineup of Xbox One S, Xbox One X, and Project Scarlett will be a lot of choice for console shoppers in 2020. “We will talk about the SKU lineup and how it works,” says Spencer. “I think the root principle of we don’t want to confuse people, we share that.”

Even Spencer says that closed platforms aren't the way to go in the future. Smart man.

 

[Aceofspades]

Xbox chief says Project Scarlett ‘will not be out of position on power or price’

https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14...-price-performance-ps5-phil-spencer-interview

Quote from article

While we know the basics about Project Scarlett, Microsoft isn’t ready to say much more at X019. I pressed Spencer several times on rumors about two consoles for the Project Scarlett release, and whether the lineup of Xbox One S, Xbox One X, and Project Scarlett will be a lot of choice for console shoppers in 2020. “We will talk about the SKU lineup and how it works,” says Spencer. “I think the root principle of we don’t want to confuse people, we share that.”

He is basically saying that Scarlett won't repeat Xone mistake of being weaker and more expensive. I predict both to be $499 with similar performance, with slight edge to PS5 as per rumors we had so far.

 

[semicool]

He is basically saying that Scarlett won't repeat Xone mistake of being weaker and more expensive. I predict both to be $499 with similar performance, with slight edge to PS5 as per rumors we had so far.

I don't, I fully expect Scarlett to be stronger

 

[vpance]

Being in a position is.. something I guess.

 

[Imtjnotu]

I don't, I fully expect Scarlett to be stronger

I don't. I fully expect switch 2 to be stronger

 

[quest]

I don't, I fully expect Scarlett to be stronger

I don't every credible source has stated Sony will have a power advantage. By how much varies but it would look to be 5-10%.. Maybe they can raise some clocks to get it closer to the 5% or basically even. They are dumping the cash in the new studios and gamepass loses not on hardware.

 

[Fake]

I don't, I fully expect Scarlett to be stronger

Probably both PS5 and Scarlett will get the same specs, unless OC or secret saurce from dedicated hardware. Many devs been saying that btw.
Still others things like OS, joystick, etc...

 

[Mass Shift]

I don't every credible source has stated Sony will have a power advantage. By how much varies but it would look to be 5-10%.. Maybe they can raise some clocks to get it closer to the 5% or basically even. They are dumping the cash in the new studios and gamepass loses not on hardware.

There really are no " credible sources". All we have are rumors pushing the PS5 across the finish line by margins.

Then you have Sony who walked back from that "Fastest Console" line in that job listing description so quickly that I'm pretty sure they no longer have any confidence in the claim. Any more than Phil Spenser who said the "Most powerful console WE'VE ever built"

We're just going to have to wait. The truth will unfurl itself in due time.

 

[TLZ]

PS5 might be more powerful at some point. Then Xbox 2 tweaked and be more powerful at another point. Then PS5 tweaked again and so on. They both still have time to tweak until sometime next year. It'll be an interesting race.

 

[gatti-man]

This time Sony comes from a generation that didn't had the losses per unit of the ps3, that psplus was mandatory for multiplayer (on top of that a streaming service with already a million subscribers), and that has recently passed the mark of 100m ps4 sold to consumers a year away from the next Playstation. So who do you think is more keen to, or in better position to go all out in hardware and or undercut in price?

Microsoft. I’m not saying they will do it but just on the basis of available capital it will always be Microsoft.

 

[TBiddy]

Are we just talking in America cause Microsoft has already lost worldwide, they have no appeal outside of America and only lost appeal over the course of this gen.

There is no winning for them even if they were 100 x more powerful because most aren’t interested in their western shooting games.

Yes, because clearly the only games you can get on the Xbox are "western shooting games". Christ.

If Scarlett is 100x more powerfull than the PS5, Sony would weep, and so would you, probably.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yes, because clearly the only games you can get on the Xbox are "western shooting games". Christ.

If Scarlett is 100x more powerfull than the PS5, Sony would weep, and so would you, probably.

I don’t care, I’m happy with graphics on the Switch. It’s all about the games. Xbox’s entire first party has released 0 AAA single player only games.

 

[TBiddy]

I don’t care, I’m happy with graphics on the Switch. It’s all about the games. Xbox’s entire first party has released 0 AAA single player only games.

What a weird argument. Talk about grasping at straws.

 

[bhunachicken]

If Scarlett is 100x more powerfull than the PS5, Sony would weep, and so would you, probably.

So would a lot of people. Especially Xbox fans, who would be talking to their bank manager about adding the cost of the machine to their mortgage ...

Honestly, what would the spec have to be to make it 100x faster than the known PS5 specs? You'd probably not be able to buy a machine like that for under £50,000. This would be 11th generation of consoles.

 

[bhunachicken]

What do we all reckon on the AMD Crytek demo? Something the PS5 and Xbox Scarlett would be able to do as a tech demo?

 

[TBiddy]

So would a lot of people. Especially Xbox fans, who would be talking to their bank manager about adding the cost of the machine to their mortgage ...

Honestly, what would the spec have to be to make it 100x faster than the known PS5 specs? You'd probably not be able to buy a machine like that for under £50,000. This would be 11th generation of consoles.

Absolutely. I was just entertaining the thought.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Microsoft. I’m not saying they will do it but just on the basis of available capital it will always be Microsoft.

But what available capital? If we are only talking about Xbox and Playstation divisions, which one has more available capital _ sold more hardware, software and subscriptions this generation?
And even if we consider both Sony and Microsoft as a all, witch division is more important in terms of revenue and profits inside the company?... Which one justifys more "going all out next gen", to the company and the investors.

 

[Aceofspades]

So would a lot of people. Especially Xbox fans, who would be talking to their bank manager about adding the cost of the machine to their mortgage ...

Honestly, what would the spec have to be to make it 100x faster than the known PS5 specs? You'd probably not be able to buy a machine like that for under £50,000. This would be 11th generation of consoles.

The Cycle never ends, yesterday was the X19 or whatever... today we had posts about Scarlett being 100 more powerful. Its like the moment Phil-sama appears is the moment Xbox fans starts spewing some unrealistic shit as usual..

 

[Fake]

100x more powerful? Are you guys out of fucking mind?

 

[ArabianPrynce]

“Scarlett wont sacrifice performance for price”

 

[demigod]

“Scarlett wont sacrifice performance for price”

BS, Gears 5 did not outsell 4. Look at where its placed on both NPD.

 

[vpance]

Talking about dev kits is weird answer to a question about multiple skus.

EG: But you know what I mean when I say Xbox consoles plural.

Phil Spencer: I know what you're saying, but I will say from the team's perspective, shipping the dev kit is as much work as shipping a retail product. You're shipping thousands of them out to partners. It is a dedicated piece of plastic they're gonna plug in and develop for. It's just a tonne of work. So I won't remove options from the future.

 

[Fake]

BS, Gears 5 did not outsell 4. Look at where its placed on both NPD.

 

[demigod]

Do you happen to have the article?

Edit: N /M I see it, I was reading the wrong article. Still LOL.

 

[Fake]

Do you happen to have the article?

Edit: N /M I see it, I was reading the wrong article. Still LOL.

I agree with you about Gears 5 don't outselling Gears 4 because Game Pass, but somehow having doubt making that guy salty.
I mean, Uncle Phil never lie to us right?

Besides, 'don't sacrifice perfomance over price'... What this even mean?

 

[FranXico]

I agree with you about Gears 5 don't outselling Gears 4 because Game Pass, but somehow having doubt making that guy salty.
I mean, Uncle Phil never lie to us right?

Besides, 'don't sacrifice perfomance over price'... What this even mean?

GamePass enhances sales! I heard...

 

[VFXVeteran]

PS5 might be more powerful at some point. Then Xbox 2 tweaked and be more powerful at another point. Then PS5 tweaked again and so on. They both still have time to tweak until sometime next year. It'll be an interesting race.

Are you implying throwing in other designs within the chip architecture? Because that's not how it works. The chips are already designed and set in stone. Any tweaks could come from driver optimizations and/or debugging. That's about it.

 

[Aceofspades]

Are you implying throwing in other designs within the chip architecture? Because that's not how it works. The chips are already designed and set in stone. Any tweaks could come from driver optimizations and/or debugging. That's about it.

I think he meant increasing clocks.