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Disco_
Member
VRS is a native feature of RDNA2 just as int4 and int8. Unless of course sony took that out in place of other things.
YOU PC BRO?!
Gold Member
Definitely possible, perhaps RDNA2 is a much larger improvement than anyone expects. Im not so sure though. Looking at 5700xt @ 2GHz benchmarks. The AIB cards have vapour chamber design and multiple large axial fans running flat out to keep the temps under 80 degrees c. Hopefully I’m wrong though. I don’t want my ps5 to be like my pro, haha.
Reindeer
Member
ReviewTechUSA? Lol, that guy doesn't know basics about tech stuff and constantly males basic errors in his videos.
Fulcizombie
Banned
Digital Foundry becoming captain obvious because some people can’t accept the simplest of things.
DF: PS5's Variable Clocks Will Force Devs to Make Choices; Only 1st Party Will Truly Utilize SSD's Speed
Sony's PS5 has a blazing fast SSD, but only first party are truly going to use it. Meanwhile, variable clocks will force devs to make choicest.co
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Null_Key
Neo Member
Cooling and Specialized SSD is my main question. I will say the 2.23 ghz did raise an eyebrow, but I will reserve my judgement until I get my hands on it.
xool
Member
I agree - but why did they target 2019 only ~5 years after PS4 launched when it was doing so well
It also seems like they wasted some resources on a bespoke audio chip which really only shines with VR, and a kick-ass SSD driver that is actually OP.
saintjules
Member
I mean no big deal, it was just funny that they actually presented the room the way they did.
EDIT: I was wrong lol. The people did move but they looked so stiff for the most part, I thought it was fake.
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Reindeer
Member
Damn, that's worse than I thought. 10% is a lot, I thought it would be closer to 5. So the 9.2 Tflops is back lol.
icerock
Member
He spoke about 10% drop in power consumption which can be achieved by reducing the frequency of either GPU/CPU by couple of percentages.
Seriously, why are people being banal about this when its spelled out for them is bizarre. I mean looking at the names in the tweet, it shouldn't come as a surprise but Penello is talking straight out of his ass with that figure.
CJY
Banned
Not really sure what your point is, but seems like most people are forgetting that Xbox devs will still be making games for Xbox One for another two years so really, even their 1st party titles won't fully utilise the speed of their SSD.
Reindeer
Member
People should give more credit to Panello, it was just little while ago that they laughed at him for saying there was no way Sony could change GPU this so late.
doesn't the rumor on a 2019 launch, stated it was binned in 2017, that leaves 3 years for them to make this video after the corona outbreak watch it and say ok advertise it so everyone can watch us burn, and upload it on youtube.....
Is that incompetence ?
Null_Key
Neo Member
Thats just stating the obvious, I can say it will rain sometime this summer, and it will.
icerock
Member
Sony did change their GPU, its all in the Github data which so many preach. Earlier, they had a RDNA1 architecture based Ariel iGPU, whereas PS5 is obviously using a RDNA2 iGPU. What they didn't do is do a radical re-design, i.e. add more CUs etc.
Also, I'll start giving him credit when he stops being obviously disingenuous about things. 10% figure was that of power consumption not of GPU or CPU clocks, in fact, in the keynote, it is immediately spelled by Cerny how that is going to be achieved i.e. by downclocking frequency of GPU/CPU by couple of %. Penello knows what he is doing by writing that figure, he has a habit of engaging in this sort of behavior.
Fulcizombie
Banned
Today I learned that having a substantially faster cpu, a substantially stronger gpu , a memory pool with higher bus and faster speed every which way you put it (cause around half of the slower memory in the XSX wil be for the OS just like the ps5 will allocate a few GB of Ram to its own OS) mean nothing. It is better to have an ultra fast ssd and some overclocked (but still slower/less powerful) components that will never be able to reach their peak clock speeds at the same time (as Cerny admitted and digital foundry wrote, you can’t have both the ps5 CPU and GPU running a full clock speeds) is better.
Oh well.....
Oh well.....
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Md Ray
Member
What?
it_wasn't_me
Banned
He isn't console architect nor console designer. So, he knows basically......nothing. In the presentation Cerny specified both the CPU and GPU would run max clocks most of the time. Will find it in the video.
Reindeer
Member
I don't think GitHub mentioned that it was RDNA1, pretty sure it was debunked. It's the same GPU as in GitHub, they just upped the clocks.
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kyliethicc
Member
Does anyone think this will be the shape of the PS5 console? Why such a random shape ?
Deeper Underground
Member
The funny thing? A lot of developers on Twitter are now coming out and explaining how revolutionary the SSD and how the PS5 is the most exciting machine they’ve seen in years. The SSD’s speed is going to fundamentally change games forever. However, because most fanboys are peabrained and have tunnel vision, they see the 12.1 and think that’s the end of the story. I can’t wait to see what games are made with the speed of the PS5 and not just a little more brute strength of the XSX. At that case, I might as well just build a PC for GamePass.
DiddyInAHellcat
Member
Any confirmation that PS5 is using a Samsung SSD?
JLMC469
Banned
As far as I am aware it was only one that Jason mentioned. Have more stated their thoughts after the reveal?
LED Guy?
Banned
Here’s something I’m thinking about:
It’s really stupid for Sony to limit themselves like that and having to design a GPU that can mimic the PS4 Pro just to do BC with the older titles, what do they have to do when they want to abandon their 36 CUs design in future PlayStation iterations? Like maybe PS5 Pro or PS6?
What will they do to abandon that design while still retaining the PS4 + PS4 Pro titles support?
This here is a big question for Sony and a technical challenge that they’ll have to overcome to be honest.
Imagine if PS5 Pro is 20 TFLOPS of GPU power, what will they have to do when they want to maybe design a 64 CU console? Will they abandon PS4 BC support?
That’s why I’m really disappointed that this design is holding them back from doing like what Microsoft is doing and I think it is stupid, because eventually, they’ll have to leave that 36 CU design behind when they announce the PS5 Pro.
What do you guys think?
It’s really stupid for Sony to limit themselves like that and having to design a GPU that can mimic the PS4 Pro just to do BC with the older titles, what do they have to do when they want to abandon their 36 CUs design in future PlayStation iterations? Like maybe PS5 Pro or PS6?
What will they do to abandon that design while still retaining the PS4 + PS4 Pro titles support?
This here is a big question for Sony and a technical challenge that they’ll have to overcome to be honest.
Imagine if PS5 Pro is 20 TFLOPS of GPU power, what will they have to do when they want to maybe design a 64 CU console? Will they abandon PS4 BC support?
That’s why I’m really disappointed that this design is holding them back from doing like what Microsoft is doing and I think it is stupid, because eventually, they’ll have to leave that 36 CU design behind when they announce the PS5 Pro.
What do you guys think?
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Md Ray
Member
GameSeeker
Member
The PS5's announced specs make sense if you think of Sony's strategy this way:
PS4 launched 2013 for $399
PS4 Pro launched 2016 for $399
PS5 launches in 2020 for $399
Sony is aiming to deliver the best value at a specific price point and is adjusting the specs to fit.
Microsoft's strategy for their high-end SKU is to offer more performance than Sony, but at a premium price point:
Xbox One X launched 2017 for $499
Xbox Series X launches 2020 for $499
Microsoft knows they won't sell that many Series X due to the high price point, so they have planned Lockhart to undercut Sony on price (but at a rumored 4TF performance).
Xbox Series S launches 2020 for $249-299?
Different pricing strategies yield the differences in specs. Very straightforward and not surprising.
PS4 launched 2013 for $399
PS4 Pro launched 2016 for $399
PS5 launches in 2020 for $399
Sony is aiming to deliver the best value at a specific price point and is adjusting the specs to fit.
Microsoft's strategy for their high-end SKU is to offer more performance than Sony, but at a premium price point:
Xbox One X launched 2017 for $499
Xbox Series X launches 2020 for $499
Microsoft knows they won't sell that many Series X due to the high price point, so they have planned Lockhart to undercut Sony on price (but at a rumored 4TF performance).
Xbox Series S launches 2020 for $249-299?
Different pricing strategies yield the differences in specs. Very straightforward and not surprising.
icerock
Member
GitHub never explicitly mentioned what architecture the iGPU was using in there, just that some Ariel related profile tests were being done on it. And RDNA1 architecture is confirmed to be used on Gonzalo APU which was housing Ariel iGPU.
Anyways, my point is. Sony at one point did design an APU which wasn't based on RDNA2 tech, they had to pivot at some point. Nobody can be sure of the timeline, but it likely happened in 2018. So Panello is partially correct when he says you can't make substantial changes on the SoC, but some changes were indeed made. It's open to interpretation what they were, thinking they were solely upping the clocks is being ignorant to the big changes which took place from RDNA1 to RDNA2. Hint, one of them is RT, the other is VRS.
Also, I'm as skeptical as the next person when Cerny talks about RDNA 2 Flops =/= PS5 Flops. My BS meter immediately went up, and I made a post earlier about wanting to know the base clocks as you can see here.
But, it is dangerous to throw out a figure of base clocks when one is not sure. I can say base clock is 9.9TF, one can say it's 9.2, the other can say it's 8. Its pointless to speculate about it, it'll only lead to more toxic discussion which are obviously agenda-driven.
The entire decision to switch to x86 architecture was done to ensure easy BC for the future, it could be done on a hardware level i.e. mimic the older machine or through emulation. They seem to have gone for the former. If you watched the keynote, he mentioned how much work it was for AMD to get the BC sorted and I'm just spit-balling here, but I reckon AMD had them sorted given the time they had after release of Pro. But, then for some reason the transition occurred from RDNA1 to RDNA2, that could've cucked their BC plans. Remember the GitHub testing focused on BC too, and that was on Oberon (RDNA2) iGPU emulating and RDNA1 Ariel iGPU.
I feel the development of PS5 was quite troublesome between planned earlier release and then eventual pivot to launch in 2020. And, as a result you see this mish-mash of a machine. Whether they have to drop the hardware based BC for future PS? Or is worth to be chained by the limitation to support older hardware when designing a fresh hardware? These questions aren't as easy to answer.
I mean who knows, maybe the 2019 PS5 SoC i.e. Gonzalo had the BC completely sorted? And if they had launched, we'd be singing their tune about how all PS4 games work right out of the box. I think it has some merits, but it has to be carefully designed and planned. Can't be pivoting and changing architecture 2 years from console launch.
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kyliethicc
Member
Okay... but why the diagonal slanted sides that scream PS4 design language? That board is just a sorta 2 rectangles in one.
That is how the PS4 motherboard is shaped like.
devilNprada
Member
Think I will go ahead and wait for the pro..
That's what I understood from some posters on beyond3d...I didn't watch Cernys presentation but that was one takeaway from what I gathered. I'm sure thermals come into play too.
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Matreios Raven
Member
With those specs by Sony, maybe we’ll see a mid-gen refresh by 2023-2024. How high could TFs be pushed by then?
Md Ray
Member
They can increase the CU count and still have BC. Remember PS4 has 18 CUs.
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Fulcizombie
Banned
But the consoles are equal , according to many folks, why would the XSX be more expensive ?
Matreios Raven
Member
I think optics in the eyes of many people (10.3 vs 12.1) might push Sony’s hand to eventually make a PS5 PRO. It’s definitely possible.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Equal? No, it seems not.
Comparabile? Yes.
It all comes down to how much they want to lose or gain with price, even if there were rumors about SeX being fairly more expensive to make.
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xool
Member
Seeing as it came up - the Eurogamer article seems to contain pure nonsense :
I would like to think this is a misquote or mispoke - you can't run at constant power and vary the frequency - it breaks the laws of physics - unless you intend to downvolt as you increase the frequency - which again would turn 100 years of electronics on its head etc etc ..
What MC said before in the talk makes far more sense
(But then he repeats the "constant power" thing again - I'm just going to ignore it from now on and not pick holes.) [I think what was mean that they engineered the cooling system for a max limit .. but it's difficult to unpick BS] Possibly they are measuring electrical watts as the primary measure for down/upclock rather than on chip temperatures (but they'll still need to measure those) .. this fits with what was said ..
But what he's describing is "upclock until it overheats" - it's not a "new paradigm" at all .. tbh there was some BS in that section.. for example it's not "boost mode" if you are "continually running in boost mode" - that's just basic grammar .. anyway. fate dealt them a lemon for a GPU this time .. expect some BS compensation just like xbox last gen ..
I would like to think this is a misquote or mispoke - you can't run at constant power and vary the frequency - it breaks the laws of physics - unless you intend to downvolt as you increase the frequency - which again would turn 100 years of electronics on its head etc etc ..
What MC said before in the talk makes far more sense
(my emphasis)
(But then he repeats the "constant power" thing again - I'm just going to ignore it from now on and not pick holes.) [I think what was mean that they engineered the cooling system for a max limit .. but it's difficult to unpick BS] Possibly they are measuring electrical watts as the primary measure for down/upclock rather than on chip temperatures (but they'll still need to measure those) .. this fits with what was said ..
But what he's describing is "upclock until it overheats" - it's not a "new paradigm" at all .. tbh there was some BS in that section.. for example it's not "boost mode" if you are "continually running in boost mode" - that's just basic grammar .. anyway. fate dealt them a lemon for a GPU this time .. expect some BS compensation just like xbox last gen ..
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
They should've just shut the fuck up and reveal how ACTUALLY the console performs with PS4 games. In the case you could show a GoW in 4K 100 fps with pumped features like MS with Gears, all this blabblering about SSDs, compressions and frequencies would have been far less important.
whoever81
Member
You people? I barely post here. Who is crying? I just remarked your zeal with TF.
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I wanted xsx to have a slight edge because they are truly trying and taking big steps. So I wanted them to do better this gen. But I didnt want ps5 to drop the ball this bad... no true BC, 9TF in reality at times if you see the DF... I mean compare this to 12.1 tf, faster CPU clocks, gamepass killing it, FULL BC.
I have both systems. Ps4 pro and one x.
I have both systems. Ps4 pro and one x.
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Maxwell House
Member
Thing is, the audio is something the XSeX has as well, it’s part of the CPU instruction set. It might not be as fully fleshed out as PS5’s solution but I doubt it’s a huge difference. And nevermind 3rd party solutions that could end up being better than both anyways.
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Reindeer
Member
I didn't see you remarking other people's "zeal" when they were attacking those who mentioned GitHub, hence the "You people" comment.
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ph33rknot
Banned
Simmer down my sir
Matreios Raven
Member
Yeah, it will be quite sad if they can’t get 100 percent BC with the PS4 in the end.
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