sircaw
Banned
Sony just spent 250 million, xbox would probably have to double that to fix their marketing division.
Its a disaster zone.
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Sony just spent 250 million, xbox would probably have to double that to fix their marketing division.
Its a disaster zone.
SportsFan581
Member
The decoy folder is a nice touch, you've got to have one of those. Bit surprising they aren't using edge...
pawel86ck
Banned
Both AMD and Nv knows turing off shader cores is not so simple and Nvidia GTX 970 was a prime example what can happen wrong when too much shader cores are disabled. PS4P GPU was build in a butterfly design and they could turn off half of the chip without impacting performance of the other half, so 18 CUs was emulated perfectly.
SSfox
Member
Sinthor
Gold Member
Yeah, I get what you're saying, and yes BC was a goal but as he says, the 'better way' is to incorporate differences in logic into the new console chips. That means instruction set...the programming or programming language if you will. For example....in the 'old days' you couldn't run Windows apps on a Mac primarily because they used different PROCESSORS. This meant they used different instruction sets. Now that Mac's use Intel processors, you can run Windows on your Mac if you want. THAT's what he meant. "Logic" is not tied to hardware and hardware CU count. In this case it means making sure that the new GPU is still compatible with the old GCN instruction set.
The number of CU's is just the number of processors for graphics if you will. So the processors work with certain instructions. Making sure those NEW CU's still work with the OLD instructions is far more important than the physical number of CU's especially when the new CU's are twice or more as powerful as the old.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
I'm convinced the mods let everyone banned from both sides back in, in an attempt to kill off the thread lol. Bit of a backfire though, this is entertaining.
I don't mind the debate and for entertainment. Its what its all about for me. I don't think anyone has really overstepped too far and if they can be countered with facts then that's the best way to settle things.
There has been a failure to look at evidence. All the back and forths about potential this and that and I don't believe anyone answered my point of why the actual FACTUAL resolutions and framerates so far were exactly the same. Not a single difference unless I've missed something.
Seems a strong way to counter any arguments and probably why there was no replies to it, as the same res and framerates but a slight effects difference is way less than the power narrative some have been pushing.
Games Dean
Member
I got curious myself and decided to check. Microsoft did own the IP but then transferred it to Remedy. Not sure if Remedy paid for it or got it for free but that doesn't really matter I guess.
Window Central article about it.
And I would LOVE to get a new Max Payne.
RicochetBullet
Member
Have they always been this juvenile with their marketing? I feel like it's new.
As if they hired some random xbot memelord straight off reddit
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I have a technical question about the SSD of the PS5,
How is it possible to manage a 5.5 GB/s of speedrate even if sometimes the files to transfer are very small ?
In a classic SSD, you have a very high speed when you are in sequential mode but for small files the speed transfer decrease a lot.
What is the Sony's solution to stay at the same speed at least all the time ?
Or is it just for big files only ?
How is it possible to manage a 5.5 GB/s of speedrate even if sometimes the files to transfer are very small ?
In a classic SSD, you have a very high speed when you are in sequential mode but for small files the speed transfer decrease a lot.
What is the Sony's solution to stay at the same speed at least all the time ?
Or is it just for big files only ?
Dodkrake
Banned
During "The Road to PS5" (starting from 27m10s) Cerny has clearly implied 36 CUs GPU was chosen for a BC reasons.
I think Cerny thought about building PS5 with 48 CUs at one point because he even make comparisons to 48 CUs on one of his slides. Good engineer however should listen to people and because more and more playstation fans wanted BC, so in the end 36 CU GPU design was chosen. Personally I would rather want PS5 without BC, but with stronger GPU. 48 CUs with 2200 MHz would give 13.5 TF and many fans including me were expecting 13 TF.
There's no need to takie into account slower memory pool in real game scenario, because no developer will use more than 10 GB just for textures with only 13.5 GB available. So dont worry, XSX GPU will be well feed with tasty 560 GB/s BW.
560GBs / 52 = 10.77GBs per CU
448GBs / 36 = 12.44GBs per CU
CU fill rate is faster in the PS5 no matter how you spin it, even considering the faster pool only (which will not happen apart from your fantasy land)
As for CU counts, the PS5 is using a design that is part of the future roadmap for AMD, the Xbox is not. Deal with it.
Dodkrake
Banned
Depends on how you store your files and the filesystem. What is Microsoft's solution for this problem?
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
Have they always been this juvenile with their marketing? I feel like it's new.
As if they hired some random xbot memelord straight off reddit
Their are just using a language adapted to their fan base
J/k
SportsFan581
Member
Since both are using a shared pool for CPU and GPU (MS has been very clear, Sony not as much, but I'm going to assume if they had a secondary pool for games they would have mentioned it), you can't really take the max number and tag it to the GPU. Also, the higher clock speeds should make the Sony CUs a bit thirstier per second right?
Bryank75
Banned
Isn't that the job of the 12 channel IO!?
It prioritizes and organizes everything to maximize efficiency of emptying and filling the RAM.....
B_Boss
Member
im too inclined to say its fake. his pinky is barely holding the pad, some shadows are long, some are short, some areas are darker, the inner hand, palm should be darker if the light source is coming from the right.
Agreed
Great Hair
. One of the biggest oddities with the photo to me is the utter lack of tonal (light/shadow) value where the bottom of the controller meets with the hand.Someone here posted another photo of someone holding a DualShock 4 in a similar fashion. Just look at the lights, darks, shadows, etc. That is how light reacts with physical objects without interference or molestation if you will. There is absolutely no indication that an object is blocking light from appearing on the palm of the hand.
So, looking at the pinky and ring finger plus the mid palm and looking at where the controller meets the hand in that area there is hardly light changes when there should be in spades given the light source. I could certainly be wrong on this but there you go
.
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Lunatic_Gamer
Member
PC 8TB SSD 3x Faster Than PS5’s SSD But it’ll Cost You
Say hello to the AORUS Gen4 AIC 8 Terabyte SSD. It isn’t an SSD as you would expect, in fact it is four 2TB SSD’s mounted on a motherboard which is cooled by its own fan and it runs through the ultra fast PCI-Express 4 16x connection.
Boasting speeds of 15,000MB’s of transfer rate a second (real world hovers around 13GB~ a second), it towers over the PS5’s 5GB a second by a factor of almost 3!
www.playstationing.com
Good luck spending $2,000 on that though.
Say hello to the AORUS Gen4 AIC 8 Terabyte SSD. It isn’t an SSD as you would expect, in fact it is four 2TB SSD’s mounted on a motherboard which is cooled by its own fan and it runs through the ultra fast PCI-Express 4 16x connection.
Boasting speeds of 15,000MB’s of transfer rate a second (real world hovers around 13GB~ a second), it towers over the PS5’s 5GB a second by a factor of almost 3!
PC 8TB SSD 3x Faster Than PS5’s SSD But it’ll Cost You
Say hello to the AORUS Gen4 AIC 8 Terabyte SSD. It isn't an SSD as you would expect, in fact it is four 2TB SSD's mounted on a motherboard which is cooled by its own fan and it runs through the ultra...
www.playstationing.com
Good luck spending $2,000 on that though.
Darius87
Member
to achieve 5gb/s for example 4KiB of data granularity level per request it is necessary to complete processing in 0.8 useconds per request if time of completion is longer then that the transfer rate naturally will be lower.
so 1gb/s takes 4.1 useconds per request, 5gb/s takes 0.8 useconds per request reduce twice usecons to double the gb/s also for larger data let's say 64 KiB just times x16 useconds so 0.8 * 16 approximate is 13useconds per request.
there's much more happening under the hood like compression when file is written to ssd if data is compressible parallel data access from NAND devices and so on.
Self High Five
Member
Wraith Phantom
Member
Your a good guy. You have faith. But as I told you good brother. Judge people by their actions not their words.
I don't know what you define as "open" regarding xbox. From my instincts. All I see is smoke ,mirrors ,marketing terms that mean f**k all. Xbox did a whole XSX Next Gen show with trailers running on 2080TI. And put *Expected representation of XSX gameplay* disclaimers. Throughout the whole show. Thats a red flag. They have been talking about power & have not displayed said power. And thats telling. They started this next gen campaign in December last year. Its now July ,7 months in & still no mind blowing 12 TF power display. If they had said 12 TF power they would of shown it to us & gloated in fine detail. With the console specs revealed ,dev comments. They don't have it my guy. They don't have that power they talk up. They have good power but not that monster power they tried to market.
Ask yourself how is it the "weaker" box has the best display of next gen we have seen(UE5). And the more powerful box doesn't.You see how quick Xbox & Greenberg tweet saying we have those games after PS announces 3rd party games. They had no rebuttal for UE5 demo. With xbox's power narrative you would think it would be them showing us UE5 visual level. Yet crickets. That is telling.
As for July 23rd it will be a good show by xbox standard. But Its not hard to have a good show. Show games ,show gameplay ,don't talk too much Thats all they have to do. Concentrate on the games. Forget about the 12TF power stuff. I don't ever see that power coming. The XSX is built the traditional way & will have bottlenecks & problems top end cards/console face traditionally. And those cards never reach maximum capability. Neither will the XSX. It is what it is. Xbox are making games to run on HDD's & xbox one. I don't even trust the cut off point of 2 years. Because if the sales numbers of XSX are poor they will back those old boxes & older PC's. As your Man Phil just came out talking about supporting old tech. Everyone forgets about the PC support Xbox do. They may still support HDD games for PC crowd.To pad their numbers up.
Go into July for the games. The July visuals will be current gen. Maybe 3rd party drop next gen footage. But games are the most important thing no??. Halo ,Gears Tactics, Battletoads ,Everwild , Fable., Forza, obsidian new rpg. Then 3rd party stuff. They will probably show halo for 15-20 minutes. Pad up time. Then drop Lockhart at the end & wrap up the show. That should be good for you right?? (I wouldn't expect more)
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
I am always amused by people pretending to know pc gaming. It is this lack of knowledge that allowed Xbox PR to spew outright lies, knowing their customers can't tell the difference between a PC and a hole in the ground.
A pity that lies only last until launch.
jose4gg
Member
I’m not talking about competition or throwing shame to PS5 that’s cool for me, it’s the cringing part I don’t like
SportsFan581
Member
Dodkrake
Banned
No, they shouldn't. And Sony doesn't need to clarify, it's pretty obvious the 16GB are split between the CPU and GPU.
saintjules
Member
Posted already or old? Saw it was updated earlier.
www.gamespot.com
Microsoft Warned Devs Not To Charge Players For Xbox Series X Upgrade DLC - Report
Publishers are said to be warned not to offer DLC to upgrade players from Xbox One to Series X, but other upgrade models remain on the table.
www.gamespot.com
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Tiago07
Member
Its very very similar yep, but it's ironic thing was Xbox One only have 64mhz advantage over PS4.
In the past when we didn't know (or we didn't debate more complex things) I would belive that Cerny was trying to make a damage control, like Xbox team did at certain point over PS4 absolut advantage.
But when we started to debate things like CU's occupancy, variable clocks, Smartshift, latency and the SSD itself I think we got it and made me realize "yeah 36 CUs is not a bad thing or Tflops isn't a absolute parameter", Series X have a power advantage but its not like people think it is.
A great part of my knowledge is Thanks to this thread, but obviously I don't know everything or I completely master the subjects I learned here.
I think time is the answer, we gonna see if Cerny was right or not.
Based in what we debate here, PS5 have a CU occupancy advantage due to the I/O, Cache scrubbers and less CU number and this makes 18% margin drop signaficantly or even dissapear. Or we can tell about Triangle processing where Theorically PS5 can handle better because can fill the CUs with useful work when triangles are small like Cerny said and because of the SSD.
It's things that makes PS5 more powerful than Series X, no probably but is things that can help the console.
Like I said time is the answer.
This is why I'm insterested in what Xbox will show to us in the event.
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geordiemp
Member
Thats not the way to consider things, think in terms of frame time, CPU does work, GPU renders all sharing the bus.
If CPU work goes quicker, more time for GPU work etc. XSX has slower memory and faster memory....so it should be interesting.
Parallel processing, offloading CPU or IO stuff to other logic, can all make a differences to that frame time budget. XSX is more powerful in TF, but Ps5 can claw some of it back in other things, so I dont expect much of a difference in the end result.
MasterCornholio
Member
Posted already or old? Saw it was updated earlier.
Microsoft Warned Devs Not To Charge Players For Xbox Series X Upgrade DLC - Report
Publishers are said to be warned not to offer DLC to upgrade players from Xbox One to Series X, but other upgrade models remain on the table.
Publishers will just get around this by selling two different versions of the same game and tossing Smart Delivery out the window.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
you must not have seen the giant thread on the first page since yesterday about this.
FranXico
Member
You heathen! You DARE YOU question our hero Phil The Truthful!
If Phil now dislikes exclusives, then I now despise exclusives!
THE:MILKMAN
Member
The proof of the pudding is in the tasting as the saying goes. The games will reveal all about whether Sony's/Cerny's path was right in this regard.
I think there are other possible benefits to the lower CU count like a smaller die and (hopefully) lower than expected pricing etc.
pawel86ck
Banned
It's not a fantasy. You really think games load only textures into memory?
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
www.eurogamer.net
In short, XSX has asymmetrical memory bandwidth because MS have learned developers will use over 3.5GB for the remaining data anyway. Remember people who build consoles are limited with certain price point and they have to choose wisely where to direct their budget. On paper XSX memory BW is bottlenecked because 6GB has slower 336GB/s bandwidth, but it will be not bottlenecked in real gaming scenarios, because GPU will not need to use over 10 GB anyway. You can push such claim if you want, but it's disingenuous claim (similar to 9.2 TF claims on PS5).
When it comes to XSX GPU we are still waiting for full XSX breakdown (in fact we still dont know much about RDNA2 or nor to mention RDNA3), but you know already Sony is light years ahead. You are a funny guy for sure, but sane people have no reason to believe you
.
3liteDragon
Member
Well, Phil Spencer says a lot of things...
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
Have they always been this juvenile with their marketing? I feel like it's new.
As if they hired some random xbot memelord straight off reddit
A tweet written by a human you mean? Yes keep it this way. The less robots and suits the better.
SportsFan581
Member
I had assumed that the CUs working faster might have created a need for them to be fed faster.
Lort
Banned
Obviously my point is both are theoretical so whatever amount your trying to make the xbox sound slower by also applies to the ps5 tflops.
Also mem bandwith limit it hit when rendering textures not by the SSD (which is 100 time slower). The xbox has better texture compression so loads less data , and the ram is faster so it can render it quicker ( faster fps / higher res).
In short nothing you mention is an actual benefit to the ps5, they are all benefits to the xbox.
sircaw
Banned
PC 8TB SSD 3x Faster Than PS5’s SSD But it’ll Cost You
Say hello to the AORUS Gen4 AIC 8 Terabyte SSD. It isn’t an SSD as you would expect, in fact it is four 2TB SSD’s mounted on a motherboard which is cooled by its own fan and it runs through the ultra fast PCI-Express 4 16x connection.
Boasting speeds of 15,000MB’s of transfer rate a second (real world hovers around 13GB~ a second), it towers over the PS5’s 5GB a second by a factor of almost 3!
PC 8TB SSD 3x Faster Than PS5’s SSD But it’ll Cost You
Say hello to the AORUS Gen4 AIC 8 Terabyte SSD. It isn't an SSD as you would expect, in fact it is four 2TB SSD's mounted on a motherboard which is cooled by its own fan and it runs through the ultra...
Good luck spending $2,000 on that though.
From instant load screens to minus load screens, next generation stuff, Woohoo
and 2k a pop, cheap as chips, give me em, my new atari box is going to sing.
Neo Blaster
Member
Not surprised at all he came with same old PC multi config excuse. All I need to say is game design is not scalable, either you make two versions of a game or scrap any next gen perks whatsoever.
jose4gg
Member
Did you already saw the benchmarks between oddle textures and BCPack?
3liteDragon
Member
Honestly at this point, as much as I'm excited to see and breakdown both consoles' overall architectures, no one's talking about the fact that AMD so far hasn't even done a full-on info blowout on RDNA 2's architecture. The only thing we know so far that's been confirmed by AMD is that RDNA 2 will have a 50% improvement in performance-per-watt over RDNA 1, I really wanna see and compare RDNA 2's major architectural differences against RDNA 1.
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Lort
Banned
Faster per CU isnt necessarily better ..more CU mean more processing .. if your running longer shaders ( which is what next gen games do) they will be TFlop limited not limited per CU.
Xbox design has more CU cache, more ray tracing compute and more total bandwidth (when coded properly scaled across CU xbox will use all the bandwidth anyway).
in short xbox has more power (TF) and more bandwidth (GB/s) = better graphics with more fx.
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Barakov
Gold Member
So buying a new system to play new games is "completely counter to what gaming is about"?
This is some crazy preemptive damage control for the game fridge.
HawarMiran
Banned
Phil "Bullshit" Dispenser
Lort
Banned
So buying a new system to play new games is "completely counter to what gaming is about"?
This is some crazy preemptive damage control for the game fridge.
Releasing games only on PS5 that would easily run on Ps4 to force your customers to buy a new console goes right in line with forcing them to buy remasters every generation.
pawel86ck
Banned
Exactly, we still dont know much about RDNA2 and how much both PS5 / XSX will differ from RDNA2 on PC.Honestly at this point, as much as I'm excited to see and breakdown both consoles' overall architectures, no one's talking about the fact that AMD so far hasn't even done a full-on info blowout on RDNA 2's architecture. The only thing we know so far that's been confirmed by AMD is that RDNA 2 will have a 50% improvement in performance-per-watt over RDNA 1, I really wanna see and compare RDNA 2's major architectural differences against RDNA 1.
Personally I want to know if both support VRS and AI upscaling.
Futurematic
Member
The only question I have is whether or not Cyberpunk 2077 nextgen version gets player controlled flying cars with all that SSD speed.
The Apple A series chips are better than the competition, and have been since the 64-bit transition. This reflects in benchmarks, feel free to browse Anandtech over the last decade. The iPhone could use more RAM for sure, but the SoC has been outstanding for a long long time.
The Apple A series chips are better than the competition, and have been since the 64-bit transition. This reflects in benchmarks, feel free to browse Anandtech over the last decade. The iPhone could use more RAM for sure, but the SoC has been outstanding for a long long time.
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Barakov
Gold Member
Well, PS5 Skyrim exists so I can't argue with that.
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
I've never been forced to buy a remaster.
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