Apophis2036
Banned
I thought it was real life footage ! :O
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
I thought it was real life footage ! :O
Are you saying Driveclub is an open world game?
Edit: Ah, it's not.. Oh well..
Oh, god, I just looked around this thread, recycling of gifs, the usernames and rhetoric..
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
This truly is the best marketing gif for Driveclub, just put sound on and cut to Driveclub logo in the end, drop the mic.
Its crazy how Evolution who are new to real life car racing, have beaten the top dogs.
PD lets see what you've got.
Which of the top dogs for "real life car racing" are making 30fps games?
HawksWinStanley
Member
DriveClub looks the best to me overall. They just killed it in the visuals department. So looking forward to playing that.
That's due to the heavy downsampling happening when GIFfing. The original footage doesn't look half as impressive. :/
GIFs are not an adequate way to show off or compare graphical fidelity, goddammit!
bequietdrive
Member
DP.
I did an awful comparison of F5, PCars and DriveCLub in an earlier thread. Bare in mind, two of the ProjectCars shots and 1 Forza 5 shot are direct feed captures and not captures from video like the rest, including all the DriveClub one's. So be warned, there's compression artefacts galore lol.
Forza top.
Project Cars middle.
DriveClub bottom.
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Wow, Drive Club looks to have been given a serious visual boost since the delay. Played it at a pre PS4 launch event last year and it looked nowhere near that good. Looking pretty amazing now though!
Wait, is that a joke? Did you really miss out on the whole WRC series?
Betta Lines
Member
If you put it like that, it's like you're suggesting that Evo were able to achieve what other studios could not, due to talent or hard work or something. There's no doubt that they are a talented, hard-working bunch, but the reason why they have created a game that looks like this is down to priorities. You can be sure that if the 'top dogs' were given a clean slate and a design brief to create a semi-realistic driving game with a focus on being a visual showcase for a new console and allowed to drop to 30fps, they'd all be able to create similarly-impressive games.
Pretty much....I think Turn10, PolyphonyD, Slightly Mad could do serious stuff considering there's even a debate about which looks better when all three are pushing simulation physics, 60fps, mechanical damage.
VVV Mars VG
Member
Doesn't look half as impressive? I disagree, the video looks great and that doesn't even do the game justice.
But I'll leave that for people make up their own mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEthwrPw36U
This may feel out-of-place in a graphics thread, but simply the man-hours dedicated to modelling the number of cars and reproducing tracks for the simlulation titles gets a nod from me. (That's not to say Driveclub hasn't exceeded expectations in almost every other area we've seen.)
I have noticed this before with Drive Club but its graphics style and 'look' remind me of the end train sequence in 'The lone Ranger' which was almost all cgi -
Now Drive Club doesn't look as good obviously but it has the same look and feel, everything looks really 'solid' and real world. It really does look like a step up for racing games while Project Cars just looks like a videogame if that makes sense.
I'm not sure I get your Lone Ranger comparison, but I agree with your general point. PCars seems to be taking 'standard' racing game tech but at a very high level - the graphics are similar to what you'd see in forza or GT photo idea for instance. But Dc appears to be using a different approach - perhaps one more often used with other kinds of games - eg killzone or infamous - and IMO it is reaping dividends.
I also hope that it encourages other racing game developers to look again at the techniques they are using for rendering- maybe it can shake things up a bit for racing games?
He is talking about the hands/wheel being reflected in real-time. This is not present in DriveclubLooks great. But these reflections are present in literally every single driveclub gif out there. Not seeing what makes F5 stand out.
Webm:
http://a.pomf.se/weziez.webm
All of those things have been discussed in this thread, so I'm not sure why you're complaining.
I will refer to my post earlier in the thread to debate your claim that the lighting is not more advanced in DC.
And I'll say it again, light sources for headlights are baked for all the cars but the player's in DC. The point here is that people ignore whatever they want an claim some game has more advanced tech, just because one aspect is better.
There's a LOT going on in pCARS that people like to ignore. Things that condition the visuals in a big way. For istance, DC has no problem defining the ligthning. It's true there's a day-night cycle, but is there a season cycle, a year cycle? In pCARS there is. There're six different type of climates too, each one with its own tones and special visuals. Defining and fine tuning the lightining for all of them is much harder than defining one sky with one day-night cycle. The fine tuning comes last, but people jump to conclusions without taking into account all these aspects. Add dynamic weather and we're ready about ambient lighting.
The tech in pCARS is far more complex than most people are willing to understand. pCARS is a true sim, DC is an arcade racer.
Edit: BTW, that article is so old that it talks about the Galileo engine, when it's been months since it got a name change. Now it's called Madness.
I'm not discounting the tech in PCars, nor am I claiming that DC does everything better. I am merely commenting on why I believe many (myself included) think that Driveclub is a more impressive and "realistic" looking game and I think a lot of that comes down to what I mentioned in my quote.
Some people have a hard time realizing how demanding 60fps titles are, everyone has become an expert on resolutions and can tell you how many more pixels a 1080p title can push when compared to a 900p title but everyone seems to ignore how much more demanding 60hz were/are like last gen where almost every 60fps title had being heavily criticized for running at sub-HD but even if they weren't sub-720p they were dismissed from any "best looking game" thread due to simple geometry/lower res textures e.t.c.
So yeah it's not hard to see why the vast majority of the devs/publishers don't give a crap about 60fps, all people care about is eye candy and if this is the case also in an enthusiast forum like gaf then you can imagine how the average joe will not give a crap about 60hz. So the question here is why push for 60fps if you can get away with it with 30fps?
The ones that aren't doing baked lighting, paper cutout crowds, painted skies, and static backdrops.
I do notice that you bring up the way gifs can artificially give a better impression of a game for times various titles get praise from people, but I've never seen you do so for the same reactions to Driveclub gifs, even within the same thread. Is that an unfair observation?
I can't claim I have some encyclopedic knowledge of your interactions, but from other threads where I would throw up beautiful Driveclub gifs, others would say how excellent it looks, but you'd never say a word to downplay their enthusiasm (even when you were in the thread for the discussion). I see you doing it quite a bit here and elsewhere for anything except for Driveclub. In fact, here's a post of your where you specifically gawk at how good Driveclub looks in gifs. It's just my observation that your downplay of the quality of gifs (which is fundamentally correct) seems a little selective.
That's all very nice.. but which?
dr guildo
Member
The problem is the following : Due to the incline of the glass, technically and physically, the light beams cannot reflect the driver. It works the same way a mirror does. Just make the test at your home, take a mirror and slant it at the same incidence as a windshield, and see by yourself if you manage to see your face on it...
The FM5 windshield reflection is maybe more nextgen, but it is definitely not realistic if we refer to the physical laws.
He is talking about the hands/wheel being reflected in real-time. This is not present in Driveclub
I need bigger gifs next time. :|
Zeuanimals
Member
In real life, you can't see your own reflection in a windshield unless the windshield is almost completely vertical like a car from the 20's-50's (some 60's). Cars from the 70's-now all have (AFAIK) tilted windshields. Tilted windshields tend to only reflect the top of the dashboard.
And this is the Porsche Cayenne. Telling you guys this in case anybody's ever thinking about buying one, people find this particular car's windshield reflections to be quite an annoyance.
He is talking about the hands/wheel being reflected in real-time. This is not present in Driveclub
Same point I made above. Windshield reflections tend to only show the top of the dashboard, though that looks like the Ferrari 250 GT which has a fairly vertical windshield compared to modern cars, so it's possible that that's accurate. Not sure if it is since I've never driven in one... And probably won't in this lifetime
Edit: beaten by dr guildo while I was searching for a picture, lol.
It's down to the angle of the windshield and distance from the dash for whether the wheel and driver's hands should show up. For example, my Cobalt has enough distance that you'd never see the wheel unless you sat in a weird, upward-looking position. The gif of the old Ferrari looks about right, but I imagine some others may have their placement in the reflection exaggerated to look more compelling.
Ohoho lol, do you even know what baking lighting means? I saw same dumb comments in Watch Dogs thread when people found out how bad it looked during bright day.
Baking lighting means baking light information into lightmaps during lighting build. Lightmaps are used for completely static lights in games that aren't very dynamic. Are cars static? I don't think so.
Reflecting movements in real-time? Because thats the subject of discussion. So far Driveclub windshield reflections has been static like other games.
The guy said DC has it, and its incorrect.
Zeuanimals
Member
Test it out yourself. Next time you get in a car, look at the windshield reflections, you most likely won't see your own reflection, the reflection of the steering wheel, or your hands on the steering wheel. What you will see is the top of the dashboard, atleast that's how it is with every modern car with a slanted windshield.
Only cars with vertical windshields like those from the 20s-60s can show your reflection/wheel/hands, atleast that's what I'm guessing. I don't know for sure since I've never been in a car from those generations but that's the only logical way that you can see your reflection/etc. That GIF of the Ferrari 250 GT looks to be accurate since the car has a fairly vertical windshield.
I decided to look for a video of those Forza reflections and it seems like those reflections may actually be accurate. It seemed like they used screen space reflections on that gif to me so it seemed to reflect the same part of hands that driver sees, but I was incorrect. Sorry about that.
This is really good video for looking at those reflections: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESZ199Mjngk
Omotesando
Member
How can this even be an discussion, there are automobile safety regulations. Seeing your own reflection while driving is not recommendable.
You know extacly what I mean, why you discuss? Baked, faked, whatever the term you want to use, they don't work the same as the player's.
What?
Thing is, those lights aren't baked or faked at all. They are dynamic lights just without dynamic shadows turned on. You can just say that from now on if you actually thought the same I'm thinking.
SillyEskimo
Member
Hot damn Mario Kart looks soooo good.
What are you talking about. Driveclub reflects the exact same way based on the stuf we've seen.
But because the cars shown have very steeply angled windshields, (they are supercars for a reason) it's physically impossible to reflect the wheel and hands from the cockpit view.
Show me Driveclub footage where the reflection should have been visible but it isn't.
The thing is, that's not true. It's pretty clear that they don't iluminate the same way the player does. And yeah, they don't project shadows eiher. So, how can you people still say it's the best lighting engine?
dr guildo
Member
Just because a light doesn't cast a shadow per object, that doesn't make it a baked one, it's still a dynamic light.
Baked lighting is what you can see in a game like Rage for instance, if you were able to shoot the static light sources, the environnement would remain lit even without them.
From the videos I've seen they do illuminate like the players car. They just don't cast shadows.
The fact that other cars headlights light reach other up is already something I've not seen before. Then add in the environmental lighting and the intra-car reflections and it is clearly a pretty special engine
Risk Breaker
Member
As much as I'm looking forward to PCars on PS4 to get my console sim fix, the reflections in this shot are soooooo off.
The fuck is the Mitsu even reflecting lolol not to mention the painfully obvious broken reflection on the driver's car windshield, wut.
Driveclub is in its own league regarding especially lighting and reflections. The windshield reflections in Forza are also so off it's amazing, I can't believe they barely change at all depending on the lighting conditions the car is in and T10 thought that looked good.
The fuck is the Mitsu even reflecting lolol not to mention the painfully obvious broken reflection on the driver's car windshield, wut.
Driveclub is in its own league regarding especially lighting and reflections. The windshield reflections in Forza are also so off it's amazing, I can't believe they barely change at all depending on the lighting conditions the car is in and T10 thought that looked good.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Don't forget that a lot of the PGR guys(Bizzare Creations) joined evolution.
Also some Wipeout guys.
They do? Check the signs, check the flags in the left. Now tell me they're lighten by other cars. They don't. It's the same effect (or a more advanced one) MGS has been using for the guards for a long time. This is not dynamic lighting. And nobody is denying DC looks fantastic in many aspects. But the lighting engine is not the most complete or the best out there. The colors are perfectly toned though.
Self_Destructive
Member
Let's talk about DriveClubs static image 'reflections' in the rear view mirrors
http://youtu.be/ny3JYGXCmFg?t=57s
(At 58sec)
MrChowderClams
Member
A little birdie gave me a heads up about MotoGP 14 for PC/PS4. Some slow-motion replay footage can be found here , in particular if someone would be able/willing to put together some WebM clips.
Replay mode WebMs. Looks real. Damn.
Unfortunately actual gameplay graphics seem less than stellar...
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