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[Human Resources]

Finally getting around to playing through this on PC. Just got to the part where you talk to the

Spoiler

staelgar soul in Northweald

. Phenomenal writing right there. Sure, this game's writing was praised, but not enough in my opinion.

 

[The Wart]

How the hell do I beat the Eyeless Hammers? They take insane amounts of damage and hit like a truck.

IIRC they have low will. Find a debuff/cc skill that targets will and lowers their deflection. For instance, the cipher has a low-level ability that targets will and afflicts stun. Land that on Hammer, set your damage dealers on em, and it'll go down real fast.

If you're facing a group of them, use summons and/or your tank to run interference while you take them out one at a time.

 

[Staf]

Yeah, that's a pretty hard fight if you go in at around the recommended level. What's your MC at?

12. But i finished it before i went to bed last night. The problem was that the formation you start in that battle isn't the same as your custom formation. All my light armor guys, and my wizard MC, was at the front getting jumped by monks! But i managed after a few tries thanks to the best spell in the game, confusion!

have you done the Siege of Crägholdt quest yet?

I was there when i was around lvl 8 and it went something like this: Dragon leap -> BOOM dead. Haven't been there since then lol. Might be time to make a return at lvl 12.

 

[138]

So...you cannot keep playing the game after the story is over? My plan was to mop up the main story, then do some side shit plus the DLC stories. No dice. No in-game warning, either. Apparently, the game is supposed to make a pre-endgame Save for you but either that was a PC only thing, or I accidentally overwrote it when I was cycling through the three files I use as Saves during gameplay. In any case, I can't do any of the content without playing the entire game over again, so that's gonna wait.

 

[Anno]

That sucks it didn't let you know. It should have.

 

[Saphirax]

So...you cannot keep playing the game after the story is over? My plan was to mop up the main story, then do some side shit plus the DLC stories. No dice. No in-game warning, either. Apparently, the game is supposed to make a pre-endgame Save for you but either that was a PC only thing, or I accidentally overwrote it when I was cycling through the three files I use as Saves during gameplay. In any case, I can't do any of the content without playing the entire game over again, so that's gonna wait.

The game definitely makes a save before the point of no return. It's always good to have a load of saves when it comes to rpgs, you never know!

 

[138]

The game definitely makes a save before the point of no return. It's always good to have a load of saves when it comes to rpgs, you never know!

Yeah, I was keeping it to three because I'd read a suggestion that having fewer save files may keep the loading times down. I probably overwrote it or deleted it from the bottom of the list without even thinking about it.

I think I have a Save file on USB from right after Act 2. I'll reload that, but I think I'll wait awhile before doing so. I'm a little pissy right now about everything. I just wish that I was allowed to continue in the game's world after the main story. I was really into pursuing Thaos, that it made sense that my character would ignore some of the other things until later. I was SO bummed when the credits ended and I didn't appear in Caed Nua, ready to move on.

 

[Altazor]

I was there when i was around lvl 8 and it went something like this: Dragon leap -> BOOM dead. Haven't been there since then lol. Might be time to make a return at lvl 12.

yeah, it's intentionally high-level stuff. Even getting to Crägholdt itself is a bit of a challenge, heh!

 

[IvorB]

I feel like this wizard's grimoire system is unnecessarily clunky and long-winded. Why can't I just have access to all my spells?

 

[Anno]

I feel like this wizard's grimoire system is unnecessarily clunky and long-winded. Why can't I just have access to all my spells?

Most of the classes at least somewhat take inspiration from their D&D counterparts. Since a wizard's magic is largely learned and practiced rather than being a natural talent they need to prepare specific spells in their spell books that then function partly as a focus for invoking the spell.

Whether it's a good gameplay mechanic, eh, who knows. Part of it is to balance out wizards having probably the widest diversity of spells and arguably the most powerful. Remember though that you can carry another tome in your quick slot with different spells and change to it if needed.

 

[Brandon F]

I feel like this wizard's grimoire system is unnecessarily clunky and long-winded. Why can't I just have access to all my spells?

The limitation enforces the need to prioritize and make decisions on how you prefer to focus your mage. Compared to older Infinity games with which the system is adopted, Pillars cuts a lot of the chaff and tries less to have sever situational spells to rely. But yea, choosing between direct damage and the ability to terrify, weaken, corrode, or whatever can feel a bit awkward with limited slots.

As mentioned, you do get new grimoires from enemies, the idea being you have different "decks" to switch between(or another avenue to procure new spells for yourself). I found I never bothered swapping grimoires and instead just jammed my single book with whatever spells seemed most effective as more unlocked with progression. Most spells are all useful, some only a bit moreso than others, so 4 per category level is plenty to succeed really with a bit of diversity(have a mix of buffs, cripples, and damage and you will be good).

 

[Staf]

I like the wizard spell system. It's fun stealing peoples books and learning new spells! But i will never get why it would cost the wizard copper to learn spells though lol.

 

[Lister]

I like the wizard spell system. It's fun stealing peoples books and learning new spells! But i will never get why it would cost the wizard copper to learn spells though lol.

In PnP D&D I recall the reason being costa ssociated with copying the spell. Special inks, parchments, etc. They aren't explicit in the game though.

 

[Staf]

In PnP D&D I recall the reason being costa ssociated with copying the spell. Special inks, parchments, etc. They aren't explicit in the game though.

Ah fair enough.

 

[Anno]

Yeah there are quite a few nods and abstractions of old D&D systems in Pillars. So many of them are changing in the sequel, too. I assume Obsidian feels like they did the BioWare/D&D throwback they promised and now want to do things their way.

 

[Staf]

Arguing with a god is fun!

 

[Ordinaryundone]

I like the wizard spell system. It's fun stealing peoples books and learning new spells! But i will never get why it would cost the wizard copper to learn spells though lol.

Same reason it takes time to "prepare" them in old-school DnD. You aren't just learning some magic words, you have to prepare to use the spell via ingredients, special scrolls/runes, making a magic wand, whatever you want. That's also why spells have a finite use per day. It's mostly for gameplay balance of course but yeah, Wizards are meant to be limited by the fact that their magic is a learned and practiced art, like a science almost, rather than something they are born with or given by a god.

Honestly, I really liked this aspect. It was fun, adding a little separate meta-game of going around taking out other wizards and stealing their tomes, hoping that you'll get something good out it. Plus being able to carry around multiple grimoires and swap them out as needed gave you an impressive amount of versatility that even DnD wizards never got (though you were still limited on casts per day).

 

[Staf]

Oh yeah! Pallegina's got a new shiny two handed warhammer!

 

[Anno]

Oh yeah! Pallegina's got a new shiny two handed warhammer!

Probably the best weapon in the game.

 

[Hammer24]

Are there any Grimoires with more than four slots per Level?

 

[CottonWolf]

Are there any Grimoires with more than four slots per Level?

Nope. Last we heard they're getting smaller in Deadfire too, but will provide other bonuses. To try and incentivise switching.

 

[Anno]

Nope. Last we heard they're getting smaller in Deadfire too, but will provide other bonuses. To try and incentivise switching.

Smaller and you won't be able to scribe spells out of grimoires into memory anymore. Only spells you choose at level up can be scribed anywhere. Or at least that was the intention last we heard.

 

[IvorB]

Most of the classes at least somewhat take inspiration from their D&D counterparts. Since a wizard's magic is largely learned and practiced rather than being a natural talent they need to prepare specific spells in their spell books that then function partly as a focus for invoking the spell.

Whether it's a good gameplay mechanic, eh, who knows. Part of it is to balance out wizards having probably the widest diversity of spells and arguably the most powerful. Remember though that you can carry another tome in your quick slot with different spells and change to it if needed.

The limitation enforces the need to prioritize and make decisions on how you prefer to focus your mage. Compared to older Infinity games with which the system is adopted, Pillars cuts a lot of the chaff and tries less to have sever situational spells to rely. But yea, choosing between direct damage and the ability to terrify, weaken, corrode, or whatever can feel a bit awkward with limited slots.

As mentioned, you do get new grimoires from enemies, the idea being you have different "decks" to switch between(or another avenue to procure new spells for yourself). I found I never bothered swapping grimoires and instead just jammed my single book with whatever spells seemed most effective as more unlocked with progression. Most spells are all useful, some only a bit moreso than others, so 4 per category level is plenty to succeed really with a bit of diversity(have a mix of buffs, cripples, and damage and you will be good).

Yeah in D&D and BG you have to memorise a set amount but I feel like there were more than 4 slots at some levels. I may be misremembering though. It could be playing this straight after Divinity where you've got everything on tap all the time which was great. It is what it is I guess.

 

[Altairre]

So after bouncing right off this game when it initially came out I tried playing it again since I'm on a bit of a cRPG trip right now and after getting over the initial hump it did manage to grab me after all. Once you have a full party of companions it gets a lot better and the main story picks up the pace as well. Just finished the first part of the White March addon (around lvl 12 now). Playing a unarmed monk which is great fun even though the combat is probably my least favorite part of the game. I have to say that Shadowflame is pretty fucking hilarious, I put it on my wizard without knowing anything about it and my first impression was that it seems broken. Reading this thread I guess that is indeed the case.

 

[Brandon F]

Yeah in D&D and BG you have to memorise a set amount but I feel like there were more than 4 slots at some levels. I may be misremembering though. It could be playing this straight after Divinity where you've got everything on tap all the time which was great. It is what it is I guess.

Yes, It did work slightly differently than Pillars as grimoires didn't exist in the IE games. Just a spell book with the number of available slots allowed per rest. This # can be expanded through levels and certain equipment. (Pillars kind of works the same in expanding the #of charges per rest similarly, but you are still stuck choosing from a deck of 4 spells no matter how many times they can be cast)

Pillars is actually more lenient because in D&D you literally were tasked to define the exact spells and amount of each to fill in your memorize slots. So 5 magic missiles and 1 heal? Or 4 magic missiles and 2 heals? (Assuming 6 slots here)

In Pillars you just choose your four available spells and can freely use them without considering how many you need per rest. One encounter requires 3 buffs and 1 missile? No need for guesswork. If you chose the spells you can use your charges on any of them. No more instances where you are left muttering "why did I not load up more of x spell goddamnit!"

Plus again, the spell utility was greatly improved. D&D has a metric ton of less useful spells. Pillars pares it down to something more beneficial to different builds.

 

[Anno]

So after bouncing right off this game when it initially came out I tried playing it again since I'm on a bit of a cRPG trip right now and after getting over the initial hump it did manage to grab me after all. Once you have a full party of companions it gets a lot better and the main story picks up the pace as well. Just finished the first part of the White March addon (around lvl 12 now). Playing a unarmed monk which is great fun even though the combat is probably my least favorite part of the game. I have to say that Shadowflame is pretty fucking hilarious, I put it on my wizard without knowing anything about it and my first impression was that it seems broken. Reading this thread I guess that is indeed the case.

Yeah Shadowflame is pretty hilarious. Like there are plenty of spells that are close to, equally or more broken, but very few of them sound as broken on paper as "Fireball, but also a 6 second stun".

 

[Gaz_RB]

Playing this when my friend can't play D:OS2, haha. Enjoying it a ton now that I've gotten better at CRPGs

 

[Staf]

Probably the best weapon in the game.

Awesome! Crom Faeyr again!

 

[Staf]

Lol! You guys weren't kidding about shadowflame!

 

[Staf]

Wow, the end of white march 2 was really tense!

Spoiler

My brave dwarven wizard sadly drowned

 

[Saphirax]

Wow, the end of white march 2 was really tense!

Spoiler

My brave dwarven wizard sadly drowned

Just have one of the ogres do it! Unless you're not on friendly terms with them...

 

[Staf]

Just have one of the ogres do it! Unless you're not on friendly terms with them...

Totally forgot about them lol. I just equipped a CON ring on best mate Eder and he saved the day!

 

[Anno]

Shoulda freed the dwarves at the end of WM1. Or send in The Devil!

 

[Staf]

Shoulda freed the dwarves at the end of WM1. Or send in The Devil!

The dwarves are on cannon duty! And Devil is useless compared to Maneha!

 

[Altazor]

I used Maneha with a Diving Helmet at that part

 

[Staf]

I kind of liked sending in the MC in the end

Spoiler

to a heroic end as an ending though

. Haven't played the actual of the MC yet however. I'm like lvl 13-14 and is still on act 2 lol.

 

[Brandon F]

Smaller and you won't be able to scribe spells out of grimoires into memory anymore. Only spells you choose at level up can be scribed anywhere. Or at least that was the intention last we heard.

First I have heard of this and I like that change. Ultimately grimoires pretty much relegated spell decisions at level-up completely moot after Act 1. You get so overloaded with grimoires during Act 2 and beyond and the cost for learning is so cheap(what is a few hundred gold when you have tens of thousands at any given moment?) that the whole thing kind of falls apart.

Granted you are still stuck to only choosing 4 spells per tier among the entire catalogue to take with you(so 'deck swapping' is still a thing if you really feel the need to bother) but it's easier to just choose spells with the best utility and stick with it til the end.

All of this ultimately is not a very big problem to address(agonizing over what spell to learn at level-up is all that is really lost before, and grimoires being vendor trash to most players), but this change does at least eke a bit more of a signature touch to the player. I kind of dig that.

 

[Anno]

First I have heard of this and I like that change. Ultimately grimoires pretty much relegated spell decisions at level-up completely moot after Act 1. You get so overloaded with grimoires during Act 2 and beyond and the cost for learning is so cheap(what is a few hundred gold when you have tens of thousands at any given moment?) that the whole thing kind of falls apart.

Granted you are still stuck to only choosing 4 spells per tier among the entire catalogue to take with you(so 'deck swapping' is still a thing if you really feel the need to bother) but it's easier to just choose spells with the best utility and stick with it til the end.

All of this ultimately is not a very big problem to address(agonizing over what spell to learn at level-up is all that is really lost before, and grimoires being vendor trash to most players), but this change does at least eke a bit more of a signature touch to the player. I kind of dig that.

Grimoires also have stats and bonuses (maybe maluses?) to spells scribed in them based on the tags of the spell. I think the example was a grimoire, presumably with fire spells by default, that increased the damage and armor penetration of spells with the fire attribute scribed in it. So a lot more reason to carry multiple books and switch around a lot.

 

[IvorB]

Yes, It did work slightly differently than Pillars as grimoires didn't exist in the IE games. Just a spell book with the number of available slots allowed per rest. This # can be expanded through levels and certain equipment. (Pillars kind of works the same in expanding the #of charges per rest similarly, but you are still stuck choosing from a deck of 4 spells no matter how many times they can be cast)

Pillars is actually more lenient because in D&D you literally were tasked to define the exact spells and amount of each to fill in your memorize slots. So 5 magic missiles and 1 heal? Or 4 magic missiles and 2 heals? (Assuming 6 slots here)

In Pillars you just choose your four available spells and can freely use them without considering how many you need per rest. One encounter requires 3 buffs and 1 missile? No need for guesswork. If you chose the spells you can use your charges on any of them. No more instances where you are left muttering "why did I not load up more of x spell goddamnit!"

Plus again, the spell utility was greatly improved. D&D has a metric ton of less useful spells. Pillars pares it down to something more beneficial to different builds.

Yeah it's not too bad. Got access to fourth level spells now so things are getting interesting.

Just doing the Endless Paths now and this is just straight up dungeon-crawling. Love it.

 

[Staf]

Oh boy. The loading screens are starting to become quite obnoxious at a certain part in act 2,

Spoiler

going to meet the duct and you have to run back and forward to lady webb

. But i'm still making progress and i'm really enjoying the story.

 

[Staf]

At the ducs hearing and things just got fucking real!

 

[Anno]

The loading screens should become less frequent now as well. At least for a bit.

 

[stn]

Saw this on IGN just now, totally out of nowhere. Is there loot? Can you equip your whole party with different armor and weapons? Does the loot drop constantly?

 

[Anno]

Saw this on IGN just now, totally out of nowhere. Is there loot? Can you equip your whole party with different armor and weapons? Does the loot drop constantly?

There's plenty of specific loot but it's not like Diablo or anything where you farm for random drops. It's much more of a traditional party RPG. And yeah you get to kit out all six of your party, select from a bunch of skills and spells and stuff.

 

[IvorB]

So I've gotten down deep in the Endless Paths (about level 8 I think) and I ran into this insane squad. I basically resorted to running and hiding in a nearby room to claw back some terrain advantage:

Took literally everything I had but I managed to weather the battering and kill them all but there's a whole other level afterwards it seems. I might need to come back later if it's going to ramp up again from there. I guess we'll see.

 

[Lister]

So I've gotten down deep in the Endless Paths (about level 8 I think) and I ran into this insane squad. I basically resorted to running and hiding in a nearby room to claw back some terrain advantage:



Took literally everything I had but I managed to weather the battering and kill them all but there's a whole other level afterwards it seems. I might need to come back later if it's going to ramp up again from there. I guess we'll see.

That fight is brutal. I went even deeper in than you and hid int he room just below your screenshot. Always sent my most tanky character to aggro the bunch. He almost never makes it back

 

[IvorB]

That fight is brutal. I went even deeper in than you and hid int he room just below your screenshot. Always sent my most tanky character to aggro the bunch. He almost never makes it back

Yeah there was a relentless barrage of damage. The priest was literally cleaned out of healing spells. Then you get those bastards that teleport behind the line into the room grrr.

 

[Staf]

God damnit! Those guys at Crägholdt are on fucking steroids! I first went there when i was lvl 8 and got my as kicked. Now i'm as lvl 13 thinking i'm gonna run over these guys like nothing. But they are tough man!

 

[Altairre]

Finished the White March addon. That was a pretty amazing moment near the end there

Spoiler

(the conversation with Ondra)

. My party is starting to feel overpowered but it's kind nice considering the struggle at the beginning. Maneha especially is just a fucking beast. I gave her the hammer and her main task is to fuck up the enemy backline which she does incredibly well. I usually cast shadowflame with Aloth, then frenzy and leap in. Her might is absurdly high anyway with the gear I have on her and that combined with the blood thirst and she simply rips through squishies. I don't even really need shadowflame anymore, she can do that on her own.

Managed to get through the paths of old Nua as well and am now headed towards Twin helms. Some shit went down like Staf said.

 

[Anno]

Barbarians get so many cool items in the White March that they don't even need. It's a lot of fun though!