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Anchovie123
Member
Why is everyone so triggered by the mere mention of 8k. Of course its upscaled but It still runs at 60 and all impressions say it looks noticeably crisper. So who cares.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
from an older articleWhat higher fps than 60 means for racing games, quote from article :
Gran Turismo's Future: "4K Resolution is Enough", But 240fps is the Target
Kazunori Yamauchi has made some interesting comments about the future direction of Gran Turismo's graphics. The Polyphony Digital studio boss has suggested that frame rate, rather than display resolution, may be the area in which the next titles in the series look to improve. Yamauchi was particiwww.gtplanet.net
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GHG
Gold Member
You have to be joking with this. The footage you're showing there with the higher framerates is one without ray tracing and the cull distance for NPC's is very aggressive.
There's footage right here of the PS5 Pro version, it's with RT on and you can compare the NPC cull distance for yourself:
Never seen a bunch of people so determined to be so wrong on a subject. Unbelievable really.
SKYF@ll
Member
I found an interesting article in Famitsu that I'd like to share with you. *Japanese
PSSR "Although this was a joint development project with AMD, we also spoke with the gaming team, led by Mark Cerny, to decide on the algorithms and designing the hardware accordingly."
DD2 "The PS5 Pro version maintained a stable 60fps both in Wernworth and during field battles."
"According to a Capcom spokesperson, a patch is being developed to allow the PS5 Pro version to maintain 55-60 fps at the highest image quality settings."
https://www.famitsu.com/article/202409/18848
PSSR "Although this was a joint development project with AMD, we also spoke with the gaming team, led by Mark Cerny, to decide on the algorithms and designing the hardware accordingly."
DD2 "The PS5 Pro version maintained a stable 60fps both in Wernworth and during field battles."
"According to a Capcom spokesperson, a patch is being developed to allow the PS5 Pro version to maintain 55-60 fps at the highest image quality settings."
https://www.famitsu.com/article/202409/18848
owandeseis
Member
Lmao there's NPC in the distance in both videos, i can't compare anything as it's just a few secs on the Pro and before getting into the busy area of the city.
Yes, it's optimization, the same area that was 30 FPS on XSX runs now at 50ish FPS, no, it's not some new magic power from CPU, and no, Sony didn't put any hidden upgrade on their CPU they didn't talk about.
GHG
Gold Member
The video you showed has NPC's popping in within 3 feet of the player.
On base PS5, when you are using the RT mode you are GPU limited the whole time, even when you are in towns. You don't magically go from framerates being in the 30's to the 50's with the same settings in the same scenario without it being due to the the GPU.
I don't know how much more simple I can make this.
Bojji
Member
1. Are you sure? You quoted only my posts but many people seemed to believe in native 8k on this thing.
2. From what I have seen F1 is using 3840x2160 resolution and upscales/reconstructs it using TAAU to 8k. This is very simple and relatively cheap method, I wonder how different it looks compared to just standard upscaling done by tv.
Both GT7 and F1 already were native 4K on normal PS5, they have base "performance" upscaling resolution checked out. Add good reconstruction to that and you have 8k output. GT7 is using PSSR but DF don't know what internal resolution is, in both games there is no RT (othre than one present in standard PS5 version of F1 as well).
I always knew Sony wanted 8k output on PS5 (it's printed on the box, duh) but weak HDMI chips prevented that. Now Pro has better HDMI hardware and can do 8k/60FPS no problem. This doesn't change the fact that only some games will have any 8k modes.
Lowest you can get with 8k reconstruction is 1440p native resolution (DLSS ultra performance) on PC, I doubt PSSR allows for less pixels than that on PS5 Pro. Good luck getting 8k mode in FFVII rebirth for example that runs in 1080p internal already.
Everyone distinct native/DLSS, otherwise discussion about resolution and performance wouldn't make any sense.
owandeseis
Member
It also has NPC's appearing in the distance, seems exactly the same as the quality with RT mode, which will happen on the busy are of the city in PS5 Pro, just like it should happen in PC too i guess uhm.
And oh sure, on the RT mode you are GPU limited to high 30s on the actual consoles, while you can get up to high 50s in the Pro version, but who said otherwise?
Now, on the CPU bound areas, both versions look the same, it's not like basic consoles run at 30 FPS anymore.
Bojji
Member
Yes, I'm sure.Topher posted this in the previous page as an example:
Not at all from what I can recall. Don't remember a single instance of someone believing nor stating anything about 8K being native.
Eh, that's quite a bit of a change from this though:
8k mode for gt7 was not confirmed at at that time other than CNET (that don't know shit).
Tell me where I'm wrong in those quotes? Native 8k for only simple titles, nothing changed since my posts.
The best you will get in more complex titles is reconstruction from 25% of 8k resolution, like what F1 is doing (no confirmation about gt7 native res).
Vick
Member
They personally played the Mode though, and were right next to Cerny.
But at the time that was "all marketing only retards could believe", for some reason. As if they could simply blatantly lie like that..
Dude..
Your mockery was in response to claims of PSSR reconstructed 8K. Come on.
It's not that big of a deal in the end, just a bit of fun at your expense after the fun you made of those users proved right.
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Have any of the previewers mentioned anything about the cooling solution, fan noise level or coil whine? Speaking from personal experience with multiple revisions of the PS5, I got tired of playing the fan/coil whine lottery to get one that was acceptable. I really hope this does not happen with the PS5 Pro.
Xbox doesn't have anything that renders at 8k but if you mean downsampling then yes both PS5 and Xbox Series S do it.
akira__
Banned
What I don't understand about the gaming taliban gang. They always want to dictate what is allowed according to them.
We have to either be budget gamer with series s, and gamepass sub. For the best deal in gaming. Fully digital with no ownership. Or be willing to spends thousands to be part of PCMR.
But we are not allowed to buy a ps5 pro, no it's too expensive meanwhile we do need to spend double or triple for a PC.
And now we are discussing if gran turismo is allowed to have a extra graphical mode with 8k.
Stop it, let's wait and see what they are cooking.
We have to either be budget gamer with series s, and gamepass sub. For the best deal in gaming. Fully digital with no ownership. Or be willing to spends thousands to be part of PCMR.
But we are not allowed to buy a ps5 pro, no it's too expensive meanwhile we do need to spend double or triple for a PC.
And now we are discussing if gran turismo is allowed to have a extra graphical mode with 8k.
Stop it, let's wait and see what they are cooking.
Audiophile
Gold Member
Following on from this... I just watched the DF video and they brought this possibility up (looks unlikely) and they did mention that if they took this route, some updates could occasionally make a game worse and it'd be out of the devs control (or at least, without their input). Perhaps a solution could be to have a toggle at the bottom of the graphics settings menu to "Enable Latest Version Of PSSR" with a little warning next to it saying it may introduce problems. Devs could even choose if this toggle is on or off by default.
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I meant strictly downsampling from higher internal res to lower (on screen). Just that question was, when it can output 8k, it would look extra crisp on 4k screen. So I was curious.
Sony and Cerny told you exactly what it would do. Better performance, more RT, quality mode at 60fps with PSSR, even told you it could upscale to 8k, and they gave you the price. Nothing has changed since that presentation other than more hands on previews. You're seeing exactly what they said it would do. There is just a group of angry haters online that tried to make a mockery of the whole thing much like the 9.2tf, RDNA1 crap we saw when the base model was launching.
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Bojji
Member
PD many times before was experimenting with high frame rates and resolutions that weren't supported by consoles at the time. They were showing 120fps on PS3 even if I remember correctly. CNET is trash, I will never believe them in anything, now we have this mode confirmed by more people.
I was mocking mostly people that thought this console can do 8k native, I don't have their post conveniently saved to show you... But there are people here that believe in something like this.
Even rtx 3050 supports 8k output and can play some old games in 8k.
There was nothing stopping PS5 from doing that other than fucked up HDMI chip. They fixed that in ps5 pro and we have 8k output.
In the end it doesn't matter, 8k tvs are almost non existent on the market and for gamers they are worse than 4k/120hz panels anyway. Some devs will support it but it's all "for fun" for them.
In new games no, in older games there is no problem with enough GPU power.
PS4 pro added option to downsample 4k to 1080p, maybe they will it have options like this?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Doesn't matter what they say it does. They need to show it and they did a terrible job at it. People wanted to see what the major improvements were and all we got were a bunch of clips where they zoomed in 10x to show off the clearer image. If they had shown F1 2024, FF VII, or Dragon's Dogma 2, it would have been much better. What they say is one thing, what they show is another, and they failed to deliver on that front.
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"Equal to fidelity mode" but at double the framerate. Sometimes with increased settings on top (like improved AF and draw distance). This is a bigger upgrade than PS4 Pro IMO. It's obviously not going to be a massive difference as in a completely different game/gen.
Or people could just wait to see the games in action instead of overreacting and coming to pessimistic conclusions like they did with the RDNA1, 9.2tf, Boost mode, Road to PS5 reaction and they did again with the Pro reaction.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Eh, no. You show the people the good stuff to leave a lasting first impression. You don't show off underwhelming footage, a week later show how good it actually is and then go, "See, you should have waited." It was Sony's job to wow them in the first place. You cannot blame the consumer for believing what they saw over promises.
The TFLOPs comparison is inadmissible since they were leaks. Sony never publicly revealed it, so this was entirely on the community being too hasty. With the Pro, they showed it off and it was unimpressive. Not the same thing.
akira__
Banned
Apparently it was still good enough for you to preorder.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Oh, look at the little troll. He wants attention. Isn't he cute?
TheRedRiders
Member
Some of ya'll pretend like Sony shit out pure gold anytime they do something.
I suspect a lot of hate wasn't even from "the consumer" but I digress. They said what it would do so whether they were wowed or not is the difference between being wowed hearing about said improvement or seeing said improvement. They didn't overpromise or even underpromise anything, they said exactly what it would do over an event on youtube much like the Road to PS5 video.
I don't think publicly revealing the exact tf value is even that relevant. The point was that The Road to PS5 video didn't show a single PS5 game. It just told you what it can do in a presentation and the type of improvements you can expect to see over PS4. A small mob of angry haters online still formed and lambasted PS5 base with that bullshit about the tf and RDNA. They didn't wait for hands on previews with the games closer to release. People are still working on these releases too.
MisterXDTV
Member
Until this month, I always read "4K DLSS Quality/Performance"
Now that Sony does something similar the world "UPSCALED" came back out of nowhere....
LOL
You love to see it
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The public decides, not you or I and they didn't like it. There was something like 120K dislikes vs 60 dislikes. Even I was profoundly unimpressed, but I knew better. However, most people don't and you cannot blame them for being unimpressed by what they saw over what they were told. The big problem was the price tag though. I don't think even showing games would have completely swung the reactions the other way. We simply weren't ready for $700.
The Road to PS5 was positively received if I remember. I also think they showed of the UE5 demo shortly after? I don't remember the exact timeline.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
DLSS is upscaling...you didn't think that through, did you? Saying 4K DLSS upscaled is like saying 4K 3840x2160.
akira__
Banned
We had some crazy takes back then: I remember the sentiment that playstationshouldn't release ps5 because 9 > 12. In that sense this cycle is very mild.
Adding context to your statements is trolling?
MisterXDTV
Member
You are not even reading what you are quoting
I said the WORD upscaled is never mentioned
With PS5 Pro know the internal resolution all of a sudden becomes a big deal so it came back:
"What a scam, it's UPSCALED!"
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Lol. 4K DLSS Performance is understood to mean a base resolution of 1080p. You're already giving the answer. PSSR isn't like that, so you cannot say PSSR Performance of Quality, those terms don't exist. You're fishing for things that aren't there little buddy. You're quite literally describing the input, the upscaling, and the output by saying 4K DLSS Performance. Why the fuck would you need to say UPSCALING?
And for the record, people mock the requirements when they involve DLSS and will point to the base resolution. "4090 required for 4K60 with DLSS Performance" "WTF? A 4090 only does 1080p!!" This happens lol.
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Zathalus
Member
Knowing the internal resolution is also good info. With DLSS you don’t need to specify it at everyone knows 4K Quality means 1440p and 4K Performance means 1080p. PSSR has no such easy distinction so you would have to say something like 4K upscaled from 1440p instead of PSSR Quality.
You don't remember the reception to the Road to PS5 video very well. It was generally disliked
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Then I must be mistaken. I recall a positive reaction. Wasn't the UE5 demo shown right after? Been over 4 years, so I don't exactly remember.
If by right after you mean 2 months later then yes. This Pro hands on is a couple of weeks at max after the Pro presentation in comparison so you can imagine.
akira__
Banned
That reveal was so badly received that the philness emailed Satya that they already won the console war this generation because they would have advantage as big as the ps4 vs xbox one.
> In the wake of Sony's reveal, however, Spencer said that he was "proud of our team. We have a better product than Sony does, not just on hardware but equally important on the software platform and services on top of the hardware. We have the ingredients of a winning plan."
Microsoft leak reveals what Phil Spencer really thinks of the PS5: "We have a better product than Sony does, not just on hardware"
The day of the PS5 reveal was "a good day for Xbox"
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
How it started:
How it's going:
So predictable. I'm now wondering if these guys in the media tried to sandbag the PS5 Pro just for clicks on both ends. First to say how unless it was, then to come around and say how impressive it is.
Bitstream
Member
I'm sure some of it is rage bait, some of it is watching blurry footage from youtube, and some of it is just a fundamental misunderstanding of how the specs work together. You hear 45% raster improvement and it doesn't sound exciting, but it's a small piece of the puzzle. Overall it runs things at double the framerate, making it nearly a 100% boost when the power is sufficiently put to use.
Cerny has a very deep understanding of game development, where the bottlenecks are, and how to uplift the performance with intelligent design VS RAW TERRAFLOPPPZ. Most of the folks on the sidelines just see 45% and can't move past it.
MDSLKTR
Member
I went in person yesterday and got a pre-order in. Just like in 2020, some retailers will mark up a bundle online. Costco Canada had one with the disc drive that's sold out now.
ShakenG
Member
Im optimistic they'll do more than just add a mode and RT reflections. Seems like it has more to offer....something doesnt add up.
F1 for example is doing a whole lot more?? Its arguably the biggest difference ive seen so far. But obviously im no expert and have idea what costs are involved with these features.
GT7 since launch has gone through many changes. Most visual changes have been minor but they did improve shadow quality at 1 point. You do get the feeling they're constantly trying to get the most from the system. There's always small changes that are absent from the update notes.
Lowering it from native 4k just to add RT reflections doesnt sound right though. I believe
SlimySnake
said this.
SkyHighTrees
Member
Thats true. They repeteadly adjusted TAA and IQ.Im optimistic they'll do more than just add a mode and RT reflections. Seems like it has more to offer....something doesnt add up.
F1 for example is doing a whole lot more?? Its arguably the biggest difference ive seen so far. But obviously im no expert and have idea what costs are involved with these features.
GT7 since launch has gone through many changes. Most visual changes have been minor but they did improve shadow quality at 1 point. You do get the feeling they're constantly trying to get the most from the system. There's always small changes that are absent from the update notes.
Lowering it from native 4k just to add RT reflections doesnt sound right though. I believe
Hope they improve much more than only RT