Sumio Mondo
Member
How very strange...
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Quantic Dream changed the skin tone of Saudi characters in Beyond PS4 to..
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
thesonovabeach
Member
Ah odd as this story is, you don't know that. I'm pretty sure it's possible that a model can be replaced by another by accident. It sometimes happens in other games as glitches (this one could be a development error, and although I doubt it, i don't know it's not.
Banana Aeon
Member
Again, there is a horribly racist and inaccurate depiction of Native Americans, so for the purpose of accuracy shouldn't be a real argument.
yeah.. no. You can repeat it again if you want. It's not going to make the racist claim any more true.
HoodWinked
Member
david cage is just performing a test to see how people would react or notice.
old manatee
Banned
It's more cinematic.
The change is simply there to offend a certain type of PC focused player, and therefore give them more emotions. All emotions are good, regardless of whether they are enjoyable or not.
Disgust, outrage, it doesn't really matter. The more emotion this game conveys, the better it is.
Disgust, outrage, it doesn't really matter. The more emotion this game conveys, the better it is.
GinoFelino
Member
I don't intend to 'insult' anyone. But yeah, especially considering the DOAX3 bullshit that just happened, I absolutely believe that saying 'political correctness ruins everything' in relation to games puts you in the GG camp.
Whether you think that's an insult is up to you.
SomedayTheFire
Member
How in any way is this political correctness? This is the EXACT opposite of political correctness, it's potentially whitewashing.
dragonbane
Member
Stop talking bullshit, thank you.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Not that there aren't Saudis who are fairer skinned, but why make this kind of change? Are they worried about backlash from the current political environment or the fact when people think of "terrorists" they think of darker-skinned people? That's a very weak sauce reason to make the change, essentially comes back to reaffirm those ill-conceived notions.
Reminds me a little of what Capcom did for RE5 after people started complaining about that but making at least half the cast of residents white. And it certainly wasn't set in South Africa (even then, it'd be incorrect in relation to actual population make-up).
Why the hell would they care about staying strict to realism in one specific, non-essential case? It's like saying a modern revision of Dungeons and Dragons set in New York City is pretty believable but having a black or Latino person in the cast is unrealistic given the aesthetic.
Neverminding it's set in frickin' New York City in 2015
Reminds me a little of what Capcom did for RE5 after people started complaining about that but making at least half the cast of residents white. And it certainly wasn't set in South Africa (even then, it'd be incorrect in relation to actual population make-up).
Lol yet despite this there's overwhelming evidence of pretty dark-skinned Middle Easterners in various ME countries. Why even bring up an anecdotal in this kind of scenario?
The likelihood this was a key factor in the change is almost nil. We are talking about a game with a character who can possess other people's bodies and flying spirits.
Why the hell would they care about staying strict to realism in one specific, non-essential case? It's like saying a modern revision of Dungeons and Dragons set in New York City is pretty believable but having a black or Latino person in the cast is unrealistic given the aesthetic.
Neverminding it's set in frickin' New York City in 2015
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Neuromancer
Member
I played the original version on PS3, the whole time wishing there were more white characters in it. Dreams really can come true.
Stormhammer
Member
beyond two tones
it's even worse that they look like completely different models as well..
it's even worse that they look like completely different models as well..
Sumio Mondo
Member
Ahahaha. That's just awful, is that for real? Was there any backlash to that?
Blood Diamonds
Banned
Snjsjfkdksksofjfktk FUCK
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
...Well that's not good for them. They're definitely completely different.
Are we sure these aren't just 2 examples of many other similar changes? Or is it really just the Saudis/dark skinned people that were changed?
Are we sure these aren't just 2 examples of many other similar changes? Or is it really just the Saudis/dark skinned people that were changed?
I am from Europe and I can confirm that I greet every black person like this. Totally normal.
dragonbane
Member
OMG, they changed the lighting to make this Saudi dude appear darker on PS4!
PS3:
PS4:
They changed all the dresses too, made them darker in colour!
PS3:
PS4:
Is Eurogamer actually serious with this lmao!? The entire scene received a make-over, that's all. Other chapters like the scene in Somalia, which didn't receive a make-over, are still identical to PS3 with identical looking black characters. To assume ill on their part is mind boggling to say the least lol
PS3:
PS4:
They changed all the dresses too, made them darker in colour!
PS3:
PS4:
Is Eurogamer actually serious with this lmao!? The entire scene received a make-over, that's all. Other chapters like the scene in Somalia, which didn't receive a make-over, are still identical to PS3 with identical looking black characters. To assume ill on their part is mind boggling to say the least lol
I wonder if the change was to prevent "negative representation of Muslims" or something like that?
I bet with all the anti-Muslim sentiment out there, developers are more sensitive to how Muslim characters are depicted in their games.
This would be a weird and ineffectual way to address that (I mean, they're still Muslims), but who knows what Da Cage is thinking.
I bet with all the anti-Muslim sentiment out there, developers are more sensitive to how Muslim characters are depicted in their games.
This would be a weird and ineffectual way to address that (I mean, they're still Muslims), but who knows what Da Cage is thinking.
Spacejaws
Member
It could be they had some correspondence about it from fans or elsewhere that brought it to mind after the PS3 release and on the re-release someone thought it would be a good idea to correct it?
Only Da Cage knows for sure.
SomedayTheFire
Member
That's the exact opposite of what's in the op. Lol.OMG, they changed the lighting to make this Saudi dude darker on PS4!
PS3:
PS4:
They changed all the dresses too, made them darker in colour!
PS3:
PS4:
Is Eurogamer actually serious with this lmao!? The entire scene received a make-over, that's all. Other chapters like the scene in Somalia, which didn't receive a make-over, are still identical to PS3 with really black looking characters. To assume ill on their part is mind boggling to say the least lol
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Holy shit. Controversy/10!
Seriously tho, this was a good chuckle.
Learn the difference between hue, saturation and value before you try to make a point that backfires on you.OMG, they changed the lighting to make this Saudi dude darker on PS4!
PS3:
PS4:
They changed all the dresses too, made them darker in colour!
PS3:
PS4:
Is Eurogamer actually serious with this lmao!? The entire scene received a make-over, that's all. Other chapters like the scene in Somalia, which didn't receive a make-over, are still identical to PS3 with really black looking characters. To assume ill on their part is mind boggling to say the least lol
dragonbane
Member
People please think realistic here, the entire scene got a make over. The only people who likely were involved in this were artists and they changed almost 1/3 of the textures in this scene. In upgrading the skin textures they decided to alter material properties as well, maybe they felt it looked better or they didn't pay attention or it was purely accidental. To assume that someone higher up was involved in this decision is a big stretch, since we know that they are all working on Detroit and this remaster had a skeleton crew working on it. Especially since other (much longer) scenes with even more black characters didn't receive any changes whatsoever. To target this short 10 minute chapter specifically bc they felt they needed to make black people more white is a hilarious assumption.
Name 1 country that isn't racist against people of a different ethnicity. Hell, name me a city.
Go on. I'll wait.
Prototype Viktor
Member
That Hollywood Gods of Egypt feeling for the pic in OP
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
They aren't black; they're Middle Eastern. Saudi Arabian to be specific. This literally isn't a black or white thing; it's about the depiction of fairer skinned ME's vs. darker skinned MEs. The term "whitewashing" is just being used figuratively here when most people say it.
Hopefully.
Again, this isn't about black or white, or stereotypical "only US/UK care about racism" garbage. It's actually rather disturbing how many posters are conflating what's in the OP to literal black/white racism, as if that's the only form of discrimination or that it's exclusively a black thing or that there aren't any issues involving depiction of darker-skinned non-black people in media of other countries.
Open up a history book or webpage that isn't Twitter or Facebook for once and you might see that it's a lot more grey than you realize, damn.
dragonbane
Member
Yeah, of course. Which hopefully proves even more that these changes are seemingly entirely random. Same with changing a perfectly fine looking green dress to grey for seemingly no reason at all. It's either some sort of random generator that's populating these scenes or some artist felt like changing it. But I'm sure it wasn't a producer who came in and said he wanted more grey dresses if you know what I mean.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Right. And it's only a remaster so those kind of decisions wouldn't make any sense coming from higher up. I'm (hopefully) not being perceived as insinuating QD did this directly or anything even if my initial post kind of maybe did that. It's still an odd change, and we can read into it whatever we want, but that doesn't mean it was done out of spite. It's just also a tad irritating when folks go by the wrong metric in justifying otherwise sensible reasons for why it's probably not a decision done out of bad reasons.
Apologies if I came off as a jerkass in my response to 'ya; the internet does that to people sometimes. But hopefully people realize there's more nuance to representation of all ethnic groups to where they shouldn't outright boil it all down to literal black or white. I've seen some pretty dark-skinned Indians, for example.
No, but that line is almost exclusively said by someone about to say something racist. It's something like Stephen Colbert's Colbert Report character says.
EdwardTeach
Member
Actually looks more like a Saudi to me now. To all those moaning about this - have you been to Arabia? Do you know any Arabs? A lot of Arabic people will have skin as pale as a European.
yurinka
Member
I don't care about their color skin. Both back then and now. But I feel weird seeing they changed them and I don't understand why.
I don't know anyone from Saudi Arabia but from my European ignorance I'd say that if they are Saudi makes sense to be like in the original version.
I assume that if they changed them is because they have a good amount of white skinned arab people there and the devs were as ignorant as me.
I don't know anyone from Saudi Arabia but from my European ignorance I'd say that if they are Saudi makes sense to be like in the original version.
I assume that if they changed them is because they have a good amount of white skinned arab people there and the devs were as ignorant as me.
Barrow Roll
Member
I noticed this immediately in the Digital Foundry comparison video. Strange to say the least.
silvermember
Banned
"I don't see color" is NOT the same as not caring about a person's skin color. Human beings come in my different skin colors. so saying you don't see color means is lying to yourself or you are blind. Also the former is generally used by racist. Similar to how they sometimes say "I have a black friend."
The point is we are different but we should not treat each other poorly or differently solely because of an uncontrollable aspect of themselves. A person is an individual NOT their race.
To be fair in a very sad and pathetic way, a lot of westerns don't know that Arabs are white.
What is commercial made in Japan for 100? Alex
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
You both are missing the point so much it's almost laughable. It doesn't matter if a lot or most Saudis are fair skinned or "pale as a European" (I do doubt that particular part consistently); the point is*, there are still a sizable amount who aren't, so how was the inclusion of a darker-skinned Saudia a misrepresentation? Or is it only a misrepresentation when the potentially slighted group is of a fairer skin tone?
You do realize that's kind of racist....or at least incredibly stupid thinking, right?
*
In relation to the particular tangent of topic you've raised, not insofar as what's in the OP in particular.