I enjoyed RotTR game play wise quite a bit. On the other hand, I did not care much for the story for reasons others have stated already here. Even though it's not likely, I wish we could go back to having fewer enemies and more puzzles. That would at least help with the "Lara is a murderer" issue.
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Rhianna: "TR Had Different, Darker Ending","I Wasn't a Fan of ROTTR Father Storyline"
- Thread starter NeoRaider
- Start date
Moon Presence
Member
Good interview but doesn't change the fact that Lara Croft is the most boring and bland character in AAA videogames. To add insult to injury, the story of ROTTR is so bad that made me laugh a lot of times.
Lys Skygge
Member
What sets Naughty Dog apart in storytelling from Tomb Raider is that the writers of Naughty Dog games are usually also the directors and have a lot more pull with the direction their games go. Rihanna, like she's said, was just another cog in the machine. It really explains a lot.
SapphiCine
Member
Everyone with a direct impact on the storytelling (and those directly managing them) in these games needs to take a hard look at themselves. Those responsible for the voice acting and finished dialogue definitely need to go.
BigBoss007
Member
Thank God she is out. The worst aspect of both games is the script.
this actually comes across as though she's somewhat disowning the whole thing (which i'd completely understand)...
She's been doing this for years actually. Every interview I've read of her since Mirror's Edge can be summarized as "The writing sucks but I SWEAR it's not my fault".
She wrote the story of the Overworld games and I enjoyed those, but it would be hard to screw up this kind of games.
I've not played the game yet, but 'the story is just an excuse to have things to shoot and jump on' sounds pretty pathetic if true. There should be a higher standard than that.
You know, I sincerely doubt that will change going forward. Yes, the first game had some of the worst supporting characters in videogames, and the writing and story wasn't interesting in the least. But the main disconnect story wise seems to be her characterization and that is completely informed by the gameplay. She's an obsessive psychopath, full on. And the story takes itself so seriously to a degree where her thirst for murder and her propensity to pain and suffering go from videogamey to outright creepy. And then, even when they are a little bit self aware (Lara reborn in a pool of blood .jpg) they don't embrace it and go far enough because they are still under the impression that she has to be "likable" and "vulnerable" and "human".
Unless they somehow change the basics of the way she interacts with the world (and the world with her), I don't think a change in a position that probably didn't have as much input as it should would make that much of a difference.
Especially when there is such a big emphasis on the storytelling and cinematic qualities. It is such a copout for these games that when they are trying so hard to ape stuff from movies (in production values, bombastic spectatle and characterization), gamers are the first to build a wall to deflect from their shortcomings. "It's just an excuse for the game, it doesn't matter" except in Naughty Dog games because they make it properly, funnily enough. Then they can't shut up about it.
It's bullshit.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Oh, that could have been soooo good.
2013 was so bad for this, but they still beat the shit out of her in ROTTR, it was just slightly toned down.
It's really absurd how many things she falls off within the first 30 minutes of the game.
Monocle
Member
Hey now she made some pretty serious faces in Battleship.
Memorabilia
Member
Yeah, every time this comes up its always kinda baffling how so many people have so little common sense. Higher ups basically said, "We need lots of shooting/killing or gamers will get bored. Here's an impossible mission: Write the story around the premise of Lara being a real person while in-game actions depict her as a mass murderer." I really like both games, but they require the gamer turn off his/her brain in this regard. That so many people blame the writer for design decisions out of the writing teams control is pretty silly.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
Came into the topic thinking my dream girl got even more perfect by being an avid gamer.
Like many, was largely mistaken now need an umbrella for my tears.
Like many, was largely mistaken now need an umbrella for my tears.
FriedConsole
Banned
The first 30 minutes is the worst part of the 2013 game. It is weird how the previews focused on that part too.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
The gameplay is fantastic as well as the set pieces and level design. I enjoyed it way more then UC4 which wasn't the case when comparing TR2013 and UC3.
But the story... It's my only complaint regarding the game but it takes such a big place in the game that it often overshadows the rest.
ROTTR is a great game and I sincerely hope they improve the story in the next entry because it's the only lacking part as of now.
It was; most of the death animations were pretty brutal in ROTR, but they cut to black before you see them complete. Also the executions in general (while pretty cool imo) don't really fit with new Lara at all- oddly they would have fit with original Lara just fine.
I loved TR2013, but it's jarring when you see just how violent it is, especially now with ROTR being a bit more restrained.
Then maybe the writers shouldn't then toot their own horns about the importance their writing plays into the game. This interview is the first time I've seen anybody disown that aspect of the game.
The story being completely miserable as it was wouldn't be a problem if the game weren't so proud of its awful story and demanding that you pay attention to it. I've never found myself wanting everything to be in cut scenes before but hell, at least you can skip a cut scene. Can't skip some creepy torture porn QTE fest for the first hours of a game.
She's a great voice actress for a restrained and bookish Lara.
Unfortunately the games seem to be unable to decide what her personality is. Is she a pragmatic thrill-seeking adventurer who kills, but in self defense? Does she make the first move to take out her enemies? Does she get some sort of subconscious enjoyment from killing animals and her fellow man, or just from the near-death experiences the situations offer? Is she an action-survivor who does what it takes to survive, but prefers to research in peace? Does she have PTSD or is she just restless for more adventure?
Does she have a cocky attitude, wanderlust and a thirst for adventure like Blood Ties states (but doesn't actually seem to match up with her portrayal)? Is she more of a bookworm, interested in archaeology more than adventure?
She's all of these and none of these simultaneously. I don't think it's the actresses fault the writing is so indecisive. They want her character to be everything, but they don't characterize any of it well- as a result the portrayal comes across as "sleepy" and ill fitting to the surroundings. She should've been far more snarky, brash and bold in ROTR considering what she went through in the reboot.
NeoRaider
Member
That's Rihanna.
I thought Rise had a pretty great ending few scenes (with the exception of the post credits tease), and some of the interactions with her step mother(?) early on we're alright, but yeah -- it's hard to defend it, there's just not that much subtext there, the lore notes were pretty alright though.
It has moments that are truly, deeply bad.
But yeah mostly it's forgettable. It's clear how much it becomes design by committee on huge projects like this. It's almost impossible to keep a singular vision.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Dude, what are you saying? She was robbed brutally for best actress at the oscars for her role in battleship.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmklv_2cY-U
My favourite aspect of the writing for ROTR is that it won a Writers Guild of America award for best videogame writing, beating games such as Witcher 3 and Pillars of Eternity.
The writers guild sorely needs a new caucus...
Yikes. Retroactively Tomb Raider 2013 should've won too because it's basically the same story.
"Oh, her dad is Terry Pratchett? Give her the award."
/s
That reminds me that the first game to win the award was Dead Head Fred for PSP. In 2007, the game that won best writing was Dead Head Fred. Writers Guild is weird.
Can't say i agree with that. The writing is certainly an absolute MESS. but the way she voices lara is far too exagerated and breathy. She sounds like she's acting. And that is a no-no in my book. If i didn't know better i would have though she was an american trying to do an english accent. It is THAT bad.
It's hard to put into words how much I hate this sort of cop-out bullshit >.<
Every writer in (above micro-budget) film/television/games is working under these conditions. Half the job is being told 'oh, shit, I messed up bro, sorry, I couldn't book x - but hey, we got y! Can you make it work with y?' and answering 'Yes' when you obviously think 'No, what the fuck? Really?'.
99% of the congratulatory interviews for awesome work read exactly the same as this one. 'Yeah, it's a cool moment, thanks, but actually, it only happened because we had to change blah blah blah.' The only difference is that one product stinks, and the other doesn't because:
1. The initial blueprint was stronger, and offered more leeway,
2. The 'oh shit, oh shit, oh shit' solutions were better.
TL;DR: Fuck the prevailing thought, absolutely judge writers on the finished product. With very, very rare exception, they're responsible.
semiconscious
Member
interesting. again raises the question: if none of what's wrong with the writing is her fault, what exactly is it that she actually does? just all the not-so-awful parts?
...interesting. again raises the question: if none of what's wrong with the writing is her fault, what exactly is it that she actually does? just all the not-so-awful parts?
Overlord had good writing (or at least I enjoyed it), though admittedly it was taking a page from her fathers books.
petethepanda
Member
The Writer Will Do Something always comes to mind when stuff like this comes up lately.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Double post~
firehawk12
Subete no aware
So no one is to blame and everyone is to blame. lol
To be fair, that's probably because the other writers weren't in the union.
Stallion Dan
Member
They were not a mess in either regard.
Underworld had a lacking ending (especially if not an Xbox owner) and lacked bosses.
Some people didn't like the missing mum plot, but it wasn't a mess. Gameplay was solid.
Nah the accent is just bad. Actress is British but clearly spent too many years living in the US, comes across as too transatlantic now.
Stallion Dan
Member
Sod mobile
plasmawave
Banned
That goes to Mirror's Edge Catalyst.
NoPiece
Member
Worse, writing by focus group.
Omnistalgic
Member
Thought Rhianna plays video games for a second...
Disappointed...
Disappointed...
Alex_Mexico
Member
Off topic but where have I seen your avatar? Where is it from?
VenomousCoffee
Member
The writing in this post, and your others, is worse than anything in either of the Tomb Raiders. You're just restating the same opinion and using the word "actually" a lot.