or Trinity for 3D chipletsTrinity?
Playstation, Xbox, and Switch games available on the same system?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)
- Thread starter MisterXDTV
- Start date
- Rumor Platform
Justin9mm
Member
8K performance mode will be 30fps instead of 15-20 in resolution mode lol
Last edited:
Justin9mm
Member
I don't know why they feel the need to push this 8K bullshit, the Pro will be old and the PS6 would probably be in the middle to end of its life cycle by the time 8K TVs ever become mainstream.
All the Pro is going to do is brute force 4K/60, possibly with RT. Because the devs have been largely useless as fuck this gen as far as optimisation.
All the Pro is going to do is brute force 4K/60, possibly with RT. Because the devs have been largely useless as fuck this gen as far as optimisation.
Last edited:
Zane Zaminski
Member
crazy monkey
Banned
I do not like this new trend.
It should have been ps5 slim with better thermals and huge price reduction ( 199 or 250 max )so more people can enjoy.
It should have been ps5 slim with better thermals and huge price reduction ( 199 or 250 max )so more people can enjoy.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
ps5 slim is coming this year.
this is for next year, and is for a different audience.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
And yet despite the massive gap in memory bandwidth, nearly every game was 900p on x1 and 1080p on the ps4. the perfect 40% resolution to tflops ratio. I wonder why.
same thing happened with the x1x and ps4 pro. the 44% tflops difference amounted to an exact 44% increase in pixels. this happened time and time again with some exceptions like rdr2 and wolfenstein where the memory bandwidth bottlenecked the ps4 pro and didnt bottleneck the x1x. but thats it. very few rare exceptions.
no one is saying that the ps5 pro shouldnt have a big memory bandwidth increase. hell, i think the 570 GBps is clearly not enough if they are planning on running games like HFW at native 4k 60 fps. but IO, SSD and Ram bandwidth will not render graphics for you. I kept telling you guys in the leadup to this gen and you're still hung up on this shit despite what seems like a gazillion games running sub 1080p this year alone. Dead Space, Star Wars, forspoken, ff16. if tflops werent the whole story then the ps5 io wouldve run these at way higher resolutions. efficiency can only take you so far.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Im no tech whiz. But typically when new hardware comes out, you got spanking new: cpu, gpu, ram amount/type/bandwidth, SSD, IO, RDNA X, Teraflop X and probably some other shit I forgot.
In order to get a high quality stable mabel 4k/60, what's the pecking order given that a console has a budget to hit unlike PC where gamers can do whatever they want with the latest parts?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Since this is a midgen upgrade similar to what pc gamers do when upgrading their GPUs, the GPU and the memory bandwidth is the main upgrades. CPU has not been a bottleneck on PCs for almost a decade now apart from edge cases like gotham knights and star wars, but these consoles might need a bigger cache instead of more cores, threads and faster clocks if they want to run decently optimized native 4k 30 fps games like horizon forbidden west, demon souls, and spiderman miles at 4k 60 fps.
other non optimized games like ff16, star wars and dead space are another story and we have seen on pc that even a 4090 cant run star wars at a locked 60 fps. no matter what the resolution. i have a 3080 which is roughly 2x more powerful than the ps5 and it kept having drops to 18 fps over and over again and i simply quit. my cpu runs at 5.0 ghz, i have 760 vram bandwidth, and ddr5 ram and nothing helps that broken mess. so why bother wasting precious space upgrading the cpu?
SakkanartSilentJealousy
Member
RX 7800 spec? but how BIG is it though.
kingwingin
Member
If death stranding 2 and wolverine drop with pro support I’m in day one!
AncientOrigin
Member
The normal PS5 is already old tech and Sony sells a lot.Not only are the parts cheap because they are outdated but they get the parts dirty cheap because of volume too.
In Fall/Winter 24 it will look like that:
New Base PS5 with detachable disc drive without the drive 350 Dollars drive will cost Sony 15-20 dollars to make and ship they will sell probably for 99 dollars.
So base 350 Dollars
PS5 pro which will have cheap tech inside and already outdated tech except the futures like RDNA 3-4 not on the smallest node fabricated.Digital PS5 pro will be sold for 449 with a win already or even bigger win for 499 with disc drive 549-599.
PS6 will be later a big upgrade over PS5 18-22 TF pro.I think PS6 will be around 80-120 TF maybe even with Sony hardware for RT on top of AMD.There were patents that Cerny was already working years ago on Hardware RT which is strongly increased in performance.
Digital PS6 599 Dollars
With the Drive that will be sold separately 699
In Fall/Winter 24 it will look like that:
New Base PS5 with detachable disc drive without the drive 350 Dollars drive will cost Sony 15-20 dollars to make and ship they will sell probably for 99 dollars.
So base 350 Dollars
PS5 pro which will have cheap tech inside and already outdated tech except the futures like RDNA 3-4 not on the smallest node fabricated.Digital PS5 pro will be sold for 449 with a win already or even bigger win for 499 with disc drive 549-599.
PS6 will be later a big upgrade over PS5 18-22 TF pro.I think PS6 will be around 80-120 TF maybe even with Sony hardware for RT on top of AMD.There were patents that Cerny was already working years ago on Hardware RT which is strongly increased in performance.
Digital PS6 599 Dollars
With the Drive that will be sold separately 699
Last edited:
foamdino
Member
There's 1 8k game that I know about:
Dream-Knife
Banned
Well you're going to be disappointed because that game is very single core heavy.
Knightime_X
Member
I'll pick up ps5 pro when I skip ps6, and just wait for ps6 pro.
If this is the strategy from now on, no point in getting the base model.
If this is the strategy from now on, no point in getting the base model.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Wtf. The boost is too small and upscaling is to be damned. Anything with upscaling on consoles this gen is looking like crap. It was created only to be used to go like 1440p to 4k. Not 720p.
Fsr2 looks like crap
Kakax11
Banned
saintjules
Member
Same reason there's a 4090 GPU. Why are these graphics cards out there when the games don't reach these level of specs?
foamdino
Member
People forget that engineers like to have meaningful/interesting work - more so than $$.
As PS5 was getting ready to launch in 2019/2020 - what do you do with all those hw folks - end their contracts? Or do you say "hey let's start thinking about cool future tech, let's read a bunch of the latest gfx papers, let's see what the best algos are in AA, let's see what techniques are currently heavily used in sw and maybe we could come up with a discrete hw block for that etc etc."
This keeps your talent engaged and busy in the gory details ensuring that there isn't a slow ramp up at a later date. The downside is you do have to launch some of this R&D work to keep shareholders happy. A different approach would be to have contractors that do the work, end contract at console launch and then go back to market to hire contractors mid-way through the cycle to gear up for the next-gen. I can see both approaches working, but only the first approach gives you that longevity of a team that works well together (see Zelda team for a sw equivalent).
PeteBull
Member
Some goodlooking games already run at that on base ps5, to not look far demons souls
What u can expect if ps5pr0 is really roughly 2x stronger from base model is- framerate like in performance mode but res/graphics like in fidelity mode, aka best of both words- for some not super demanding games it can be 4k60, for extremly demanding ones (or with decent rt) it could be 1080p60.
unlurkified
Member
It might just be the beginning of the end for their console division if they don’t do an X Pro this gen if Sony does. They would completely cede all ground to the hardcore console playerbase and likely won’t have a chance getting them back next gen. I don’t think they’ll be able to compete in the power race after that.
PeteBull
Member
Thats my strategy too, was no point to get base ps5 when we got official specs reveal, already back then any techsavy person was sure pr0 model will happen, and those few years is good for sony to build up solid amount of quality exclusives, no downsides at all
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I can't help but feel that you are completely getting this whole TF argument wrong.
And your examples of games running at 1080p whatever.... honestly makes no sense. If you gave devs an 80TF machine.... they could still ma a 1080p game for it if thats what they wanted to do. I don't know why anyone or who thinks that TFs is some sort of direct correlation to expected performance. I will say this to anyone that says xxTF would only get you yy Rez, ad to anyone that says you need xx TF t get yy rez.
Before his gen even started...I literally said, it doesn't matter how much power you give devs in consoles, they would somehow end up making 1080p games. What I dont get though, is when people talk about stuff like the games that are running at 1080p... and using that to point out how these machines ar not `powerful` enough... have they ever stopped to ask, if those games in question are even the best looking games on the console?
Madserb2023
Member
I don't look at this any different to a more powerful GPU. These consoles just aren't powerful enough and it's one of the consequences of trying to keep hardware cheap. High end GPUs have gone from $600 to $1200 in the time we went from the PS3 to PS5 yet the PS5 is cheaper. How do you think this works? The reality is consoles have gone from have equivalent to high end PCs at the time (xbox 360) to mid range PCs now. The console industry isn't magical. If the PS7 is still cheaper than the PS3 it will be equivalent to low end PC hardware at release. The mid gen refresh corrects this by given the console that would have launched if they could have charged more. It's quite rational.
MisterXDTV
Member
High-end GPU have gone from $600 to $1200 because NVIDIA is greedy, has a monopoly and can do whatever they want....
It doesn't work like that in the console market
The PC-console comparison makes no sense
Madserb2023
Member
It makes complete sense because these consoles use PC components. The Xbox 360 launched with a GPU that was better than anything AMD had on PCs at the time. It wasn't until 2006 until they released a more powerful GPU. That would be the equivalent of the PS5 launching with a 7900 (25 to 30tf) GPU but of course it would be $1000. I live in the UK and the Xbox 360 would be around £700 today. I am sorry but it's not more complicated than that. Pay less, get less.
MisterXDTV
Member
Consoles use custom PC components that Sony pays much less because of the bulk order....
Stop comparing consoles to a single person that builds a gaming PC.....
Last edited:
Madserb2023
Member
I know it is different as to why I said $1000 not $3000 as the economy of scale is different but that has always been the case. I don't think people realise but costs are higher now than in 2005. This is not an opinion. These consoles are made in China where wages are 4x what they were back then and will be as much as 6x when the PS6 arrives. Everything is more expensive down to the screws. Yes Nvidia is greedy but costs are genuinely much higher than they were even a decade ago and Sony is not exempt from it. Sony are likely not even making a profit on the PS5. There wouldn't even be a discussion if people saw the individual costs.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Nope.. that makes no sense. PC GPUs don't cost $1200 because the components that go into making them cost $1100 and the vendors are making a $100 profit.
They cost what they cost because it cost like $500 to make them and Nvidia or the vendors realize they can get away with marking it up by over 100%+.
Just doing a cursory analysis on component pricing you can deduce for yourself how much these things really cost to make. But if that's too much trouble, let's just look at say the 7900XT. 84CUs (48 more than a PS5), 20GB of RAM, a 530mm2 chip on a 5nm process... a 50TF GPU. For $900. That $900 includes BOM, OEM markup and retail markup. The OEM markup for these things can be as much as 30-40% over the BOM. Then you add another 10-15% retail profit...etc. And you quickly see that stuff you see in Retail that cost $900 actually costs like half as much to make.
This is not just a GPU thing, it's pretty much industry-wide. I mean.. even the current-gen consoles' PC GPU equivalent launched at $480. And that was just a GPU. That ought to tell you everything you need to know about GPU prices. Best advice, stop looking at Nvidia prices and try instead to look at component pricing.
Last edited:
CanYouFlyBobby?
Banned
I dont understand the 1800 gigawatts. How many teraflops does it have?
Madserb2023
Member
I do work in the manufacturing industry selling electronic components for servers. I know it's not the same as console manufacturing but I can tell you that costs have gone up massively in the last 5 years alone especially since Covid. Not being able to get anything out of Northern Italy where all the big ABB factories are in Europe was difficult. Of course there is greed but costs are much higher now and this will filter through. Phones, laptops, everything is more expensive. All the components come from the same place, from just a handful of factories and they all compete for the same stuff. Sony directly bids against Samsung etc.
D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
At the moment Sony's one 8k LCD TV as per previous years. Is an LCD that only allows native 8k with Local Dimming disabled. They are essentially great at upscaling 4k images onto an 8k pixel density panel. But only useful in native 8k for SDR desktop work (due to local dimming severely curtailing HDR). And these LCD's aren't cheap. So I genuinely wouldn't expect a genuine 8k push, beyond a marketing label on the box which we already see on the PS5.
rickybooby87
Member
I was thinking compute based too, but I've seen a few articles floating around about the chance of it being driver dependent which would lock it down to AMD cards. FSR1/2 isn't supported reasonably well on anything less than a GTX 1080 I believe due to FP16/FP32 instruction set performance.
I also saw something regarding WMMA:
AMD RDNA 3 'GFX11' GPUs May Feature Hardware-Accelerated FSR 3.0 Tech Thanks To WMMA 'Wave Matrix-Multiply-Accumulate' Instructions
AMD's next-generation FSR 3.0 technology may feature hardware-acceleration through new WMMA instructions on RDNA 3 'GFX11' GPUs.
wccftech.com
I am personally hoping for some form of hardware acceleration that comes within swinging distance of DLSS3.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Yeah I brought it up on one of the early pages this was Tom
Its kind of odd he did a whole new site for this though when he was already doing that Insidergaming site
The margin is around 60% not over 100%, the prices went up because production costs did and they wouldn't decrease their margin. Go look at how much the price of wafers keep going up each node now and tsmc has increased their prices like over 20% the last few years ontop. The guys saying costs have gone up are not saying your going to get price increases to the degree pc components did but they will go up, AMD are not going to subsidize the console makers by not passing on foundry costs.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, thats not what I am saying at all. The reason why I brought up those games running at 1080p is to prove that computing power is whats needed to render these graphics, not the IO or the ssd or any of the ancillary systems. The reason why the same games run at higher resolutions on PC is because on PC we have GPUs with .... you guessed it .... MORE computer power or tflops.
When designing a pro console, you want to ensure that you have 2x more GPU power if your goal is to get 2x more performance. thats it. Now if you get there with 50% more tflops and an additional 50% performance in IPC gains then great. If you get there with 72 CUs at 2.3 Ghz or 60 CUs with 2.55 Ghz, it deosnt matter. Compute power is compute power.
What you cant do is expect the the IO and the SSD to bear the graphics rendering load.
SegaSnatcher
Member
Everyone needs to ignore the 8K line. 99% of devs will not offer an 8K mode. You might see an indie dev add an 8K 30fps mode to some game that doesn't exactly push the hardware to its limits, but given the lack of real 8K adoption I doubt even that will happen.
PS5 Pro will prioritize the areas in performance people actually care about, better FPS, Ray Tracing and maintaining highest resolutions with games that use DRS.
PS5 Pro will prioritize the areas in performance people actually care about, better FPS, Ray Tracing and maintaining highest resolutions with games that use DRS.
SegaSnatcher
Member
In what ways has it been a let down? Vast majority of games have a 60fps mode that usually stays pretty consistent. That is a huge improvement over previous gens. We haven't seen that since what the Genesis/SNES days?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
He mentions average looking games. Dont think he cares about 60 fps modes.
TheRedRiders
Member
Interesting how Tom is throwing shade on peopled who were "leaking" that the PS5 Pro had been cancelled and that there were multiple designs and such.
There's only one leaker who said all this and it was RedGamingTech.
TheDreadLord
Member
Probably not… perhaps in a later stage when an eventual PS6 is announced and people start selling theirs ps5 pros
Honestly, the specs are very disappointing and as conservative as can be for a pro console. Its looking like almost a 1.5~x increase in compute and possibly bigger improvement which is just baffling...even the ps4 pro which was rather conservative itself and did the easy butterfly design managed a 2x+ boost in compute while the one x was a truly impressive console for a mid gen boost. This console almost comes across as a Nintendo style boost like the switch+ strategy which makes you wonder what is even the point...
If they are going for a premium console why not actually make a capable piece of hardware that can appeal to the segment you are trying to target? Price it at 600$+ if need be and the people who want the enthusiast product will buy it, but making a middling upgrade and still ending up charging 550$+ just comes across as greedy and disappointing.
If they are going for a premium console why not actually make a capable piece of hardware that can appeal to the segment you are trying to target? Price it at 600$+ if need be and the people who want the enthusiast product will buy it, but making a middling upgrade and still ending up charging 550$+ just comes across as greedy and disappointing.
Last edited:
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I remember at one point even Tom seemed to doubt the PS5 Pro was coming saying something along the line he was hearing more about the PS6 than a PS5 Pro
There seemed to be some confusion in naming at one point as some people thought they (Sony) would stop with the pro moniker and just call it the next generation and with how much is cross gen anyhow whats the difference in what its actually called
TheRedRiders
Member
I do remember that, at the time he said he hadn't heard anything about a Pro... but in the latest article he was quite specific about the PS5 Pro aka Project Trinity being the only mid-gen refresh in development by Sony, and that there was no cancellations in design and such.
This directly contradicts RGT's information, who was for months saying the Pro had been canned. Then saying he wasn't sure and simply doesn't know.
My opinion is RGT doesn't know jack, and his sources are dubious and inaccurate.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I think RGTs problem is he puts on video everything he hears without any sort of verification and imo Tom cares more about what he puts out there
But yeah RGTs source are sketchy at best
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Blame AMD. Their 7000 series line of cards this thing is likely based on is complete trash from both a performance and thermal perspective. Its no Polaris which had a massive die shrink due to its 16nm design along with a 25% IPC gain. There are no IPC gains here and thermals for their 26 tflops card on 5nm are roughly on par with their 7nm 23 tflops card. It's a complete turd especially if you are Cerny and hoping for a massive power reduction for your console. At current specs, 60 CUs at 2.23 GHz, you are looking at the GPU alone taking 175 watts which is insane considering the other 10 tflops RDNA 2.0 cards like the 6600xt and 6700 non xt top out at 135 watts.
I think this thing will be $599. Bigger than the PS5 with a more expensive cooling solution. Besides, I highly doubt Sony would charge $499 for a premium console after increasing the price of the base version to $549.
Lets just hope they are able to get some power savings and IPC gains next year while they wait for RDNA 4.0. But if its based on RDNA3.0 then yes we are looking at a 72% performance increase which means 1080p games become 1440p games, and 1440p games become 1800p games. Not great, not terrible.
HTK
Banned
So you're extending your generation by additional 3 years? Is that really worth $500?