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[Ma-Yuan]

For me it sounded awful low... Also the Xbox one x has already 12 gbs. This is just 33% more on a split set up which is like an esram situation of the original one imo....

 

[-kb-]

For me it sounded awful low... Also the Xbox one x has already 12 gbs. This is just 33% more on a split set up which is like an esram situation of the original one imo....

The memory is not split, some of it is just slower than the rest.

 

[GHG]

The memory is not split, some of it is just slower than the rest.

It is split because the 12GB can specifically be used for memory intensive gaming tasks while the rest is used for the OS and any non intensive memory gaming tasks (such as audio etc).

In simple terms the developers get 12GB of fast storage to play with. Other people who currently game on PC have already voiced their concerns throughout the thread and I'm very much inclined to agree with them.

A bump to 20GB or more would make a huge difference. Memory bottlenecks will start to become a thing in certain games.

 

[Flick]

For me it sounded awful low... Also the Xbox one x has already 12 gbs. This is just 33% more on a split set up which is like an esram situation of the original one imo....

one X has GDDR5, this thing has GDDR6 AND super fast ssd.

It is split because the 12GB can specifically be used for memory intensive gaming tasks while the rest is used for the OS and any non intensive memory gaming tasks (such as audio etc).

In simple terms the developers get 12GB of fast storage to play with. Other people who currently game on PC have already voiced their concerns throughout the thread and I'm very much inclined to agree with them.

A bump to 20GB or more would make a huge difference. Memory bottlenecks will start to become a thing in certain games.

I think its bullshit and just shows that people have zero knowledge and are just trying to find things to shit on xbox. lol

 

[Dunnas]

That doesn't make any sense. SSDs are orders of magnitude slower than GDDR6 VRAM. You can't substitute memory with the SSD.

Because when you can only move game data into the ram at something like 60MB/S you need to have a lot more data already in the ram that may not be needed in the immediate future. When you can stream it at at least 2.4GB/s (probably faster based on the decompression tech mentioned if the game data is compressed) you can Swap in the data into the ram extremely quickly when required.

 

[Dunnas]

It is split because the 12GB can specifically be used for memory intensive gaming tasks while the rest is used for the OS and any non intensive memory gaming tasks (such as audio etc).

In simple terms the developers get 12GB of fast storage to play with. Other people who currently game on PC have already voiced their concerns throughout the thread and I'm very much inclined to agree with them.

A bump to 20GB or more would make a huge difference. Memory bottlenecks will start to become a thing in certain games.

It is 13.5 for games and 2.5 for the OS. It is a unified pool for games and the cpu and other non-gpu related tasks will use the slower ram, as well as likely some of the faster ram.

 

[-kb-]

It is split because the 12GB can specifically be used for memory intensive gaming tasks while the rest is used for the OS and any non intensive memory gaming tasks (such as audio etc).

In simple terms the developers get 12GB of fast storage to play with. Other people who currently game on PC have already voiced their concerns throughout the thread and I'm very much inclined to agree with them.

A bump to 20GB or more would make a huge difference. Memory bottlenecks will start to become a thing in certain games.

The split is 10GB and 6GB, not 12GB and something else and its a split into fast and slow not anything else.

The second lot of memory still provides lots of bandwidth just comparatively less then the faster 10GB.

 

[nikolino840]

Is this what concern trolling looks like?

He Is the buzzword man for anything MS Say...

 

[GHG]

I think its bullshit and just shows that people have zero knowledge and are just trying to find things to shit on xbox. lol

And this is where the only bullshit is coming from you. The likes of @blly155 have no horse in this race.

The fact is if you've been gaming at max settings 1440p or above on PC all generation and use hardware monitoring software then you will know what numbers you will typically see in terms of RAM utilisation (both across the GPU and System memory).

I'd like to think the standards of next gen should be higher than just "last gen but now in 4k with max settings".

 

[megreotsugua]

I think SXS will be sold by MS for $399.

The specs screams $399 to me. I mean 13GB RAM for games. MS must be targeting $399 with little loss.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Just gonna cross post this from the DF reveal thread since it pertains to the topic here. I think it provides a pretty good run down.

I feel like I can help levitate some of the confusion over the RAM used in the Xbox Series X.
Lets start with the RAM type used in the Xbox series X, GDDR6 memory is usually reserved for graphics cards, which typically benefit from the very high bandwidth found in this RAM. In case of the Xbox it’s 2 types of bandwidth, one with 560 GB/s and one with 336 GB/s. We have 10 Gigabytes of the faster type RAM and 6 Gigabytes of the slower type. The amount of RAM useable by game developers is 13.5 Gigabytes with 2.5 Gigabytes being reserved for the OS and background applications. It’s a unified memory pool, which developers can allocate the required amounts of RAM freely to either the CPU or the GPU.

Now onto the problems:
A lot of people seem to think there a two major problems with the RAM. The first one being “there is slower 336 GB/s RAM in there, is that really enough ? Why was that build in ?“, this is not really a issue in game development in fact in won’t even matter. The reason being, that the 3.5 Gigabytes of RAM that is being available of this slower RAM will be used for the CPU. Processors do not really need this insane amount of bandwidth and don’t really benefit from this, which is why pc‘s use DDR4 memory for the cpu, which if compared to GDDR6 even the slower type lakes a lot in bandwidth. The CPU benefits much more from lower latency and is a key factor in RAM for communication between the two. Also we need to take into account that the CPU usually in games needs more RAM then the GPU, but this of course heavily depends on the Game. So assuming we need 6 Gigabytes of RAM for the GPU at all times which is a really high number in the console area, we still would be left with 7.5 gigabytes of RAM for the CPU at all times, of which 3.5 gigabytes is of the slower bandwidth type. So the bandwidth is not really a issue for game development. And please remember that the amount of RAM needed to either cpu or gpu is allocated by the game developers depending on their needs.

Now for the second problem “Is 13.5 Gigabytes really enough for the next gen?“, now this is a much more complex issue, which I guess we will see over the next years, though from my standpoint at least for now it’s plenty. With the next generation consoles we will be benefitting a lot from new technologies, and one major factor will be the ssd. The new storage medium will allow us to cache much less things in the RAM and rely much more on simply pulling things off the ssd. Also keep in mind that memory allocation will be much more efficient this generation, more on that will be revealed down the line (or not as that is usually only really interesting for developers). So with taking this into account, do I think it’s going to be enough for the next generation ? Yes I do, people will see that this generation will allow for a much better memory efficiency and it will show with the true next gen games.

I really hope this helps some of you.

All_Might Anything else to add to this thread? I'm also curious if you have any expertise in this area and what it is if you don't mind me asking kind sir. And if you know, what do you think this means for the future of RAM in PCs? Will what the next gen consoles are doing affect future PC hardware in any way in terms of RAM and such?

 

[Flick]

I think SXS will be sold by MS for $399.

The specs screams $399 to me. I mean 13GB RAM for games. MS must be targeting $399 with little loss.

and the CPU, the custom ssd, the GPU also scream $399 to you?
And this is mostly GDDR6 RAM, not GDDR3 lol

This thing is a MONSTER.

 

[GymWolf]

Never understood why people paying 1000$ for a phone but 600$ for a console is too expensive....

i call this people crybabies.

 

[GHG]

i call this people crybabies.

Nah they're just idiots.

The crybabies can't even afford the phone, let alone the console.

 

[megreotsugua]

and the CPU, the custom ssd, the GPU also scream $399 to you?
And this is mostly GDDR6 RAM, not GDDR3 lol

This thing is a MONSTER.

I agree this specs are good. But it screams $399 to me. I don't see how MS could sell this for $499.

 

[PocoJoe]

Ram is everything graphics so 16gb is proper shit, infact complete nonesense this is why they kept talking about buzz words like vrs, cause you need tricks to worl with low memory. 16gb isnt next generation its simply a xbox one upgrade.

Considering high memory prices recession and corona virus i cant complain much but thats it 16gb is the nail in the coffin. Xbox fucked up again.

Indeed. By looking at gens before next gen, RAM have always had bigger jump than 2x.

Next gen should have 128Gb to have same jump as gens before, which isnt possible.

But 32gb would be lowest to be considered as true next gen ram jump to me

 

[SaltyMcSalt]

Indeed. By looking at gens before next gen, RAM have always had bigger jump than 2x.

Next gen should have 128Gb to have same jump as gens before, which isnt possible.

But 32gb would be lowest to be considered as true next gen ram jump to me

32GB GDDR6? Too expensive.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Just gonna cross post this from the DF reveal thread since it pertains to the topic here. I think it provides a pretty good run down.



All_Might Anything else to add to this thread? I'm also curious if you have any expertise in this area and what it is if you don't mind me asking kind sir. And if you know, what do you think this means for the future of RAM in PCs? Will what the next gen consoles are doing affect future PC hardware in any way in terms of RAM and such?

Great post, a contribution with a proper analysis. It's clear that Microsoft really thought this console through, and they are not going to put in a 12TF GPU to have it constraint by a bit of RAM...

 

[Gavin Stevens]

This thread reminds me of that time I heard Margaret Thatcher has returned from the dead with Elvis, stole all the hand sanitiser, got high, then made a baby and named it Chief Inspector Wobble.

Because fuck me, there’s some bullshit to be read in here

 

[megreotsugua]

Ram is so small. This machine should be $399 or it's dead on arrival.

 

[megreotsugua]

Sony should not make this same mistake of 13GB of RAM for next-gen.

I wonder what Sony is cooking.

 

[GymWolf]

I agree this specs are good. But it screams $399 to me. I don't see how MS could sell this for $499.

not sure if serious.
you are gonna be lucky if it's only 500 dollars, lol...

 

[-kb-]

Sony should not make this same mistake of 13GB of RAM for next-gen.

I wonder what Sony is cooking.

16GB of GDDR6 probably.

 

[Ywap]

Good thing. This will leave room for a x series ultra with more ram within two years of release.

 

[psorcerer]

Americans just cannot help themselves, they like this sensationalist bullshit.
Nextgen opted for data-streaming machine. The new architecture is much closer to PS2 than to any other console.
You have a lot of bandwidth in the system but small sizes of everything.
Yes. It will be harder to develop for PC developers, who always lived in a windows/directx world of "infinite ram".
But it should be much easier for console devs who are used to rationing everything and to streaming.
I.e. chill out. It's ok.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Sony should not make this same mistake of 13GB of RAM for next-gen.

I wonder what Sony is cooking.

I predict unified 16gb memory at ~500gb/s with an additional 2-4gb DDR4. Who make more sense than cheaping out with just 16gb for everything and splitting it to boot.

 

[All_Might]

Just gonna cross post this from the DF reveal thread since it pertains to the topic here. I think it provides a pretty good run down.



All_Might Anything else to add to this thread? I'm also curious if you have any expertise in this area and what it is if you don't mind me asking kind sir. And if you know, what do you think this means for the future of RAM in PCs? Will what the next gen consoles are doing affect future PC hardware in any way in terms of RAM and such?

I am a game developer, my original background was in electrical engineering but I switched to programming as that is what I enjoy the most.

Now before anyone gets there hopes up, I am not developing for next generation consoles (yet?). You can believe me if I say any developer who says that he is working for a game company and openly talks about stuff that he is under nda with is obviously trolling.

Regarding your pc question:
RAM is always something that is affected with each generational jump from consoles, when PlayStation 4 / Xbox one came out we saw a 16 times jump in memory, this resulted in a higher memory usage for games on consoles and on pc and that is of course in part due to the higher amount of RAM that PS4 and Xbox one has to offer. The solution used in the PlayStation 4 already was very custom, with them using GDDR5 as system memory with a unified pool, this was something usually reserved for high end gpu vram (and PS4 was first to use it I believe). It allowed the PlayStation 4 to have very high bandwidth, although the latency was a bit higher then normal ddr memory it did not affect the system in a bad way. Looking at this very custom solution, how did It affect the pc space ? Well in short it did not do much in terms of pc systems using this solution as well as a sole unified ram, so altering the traditional way of pc building is out of the question. On the pc side RAM will be kept on the traditional side with cpus using low latency ddr memory and gpus gddr / hbm high bandwidth memory. This allows pcs to have maximum compatibility across all OS and software.

So how will pcs be affected by the new consoles in terms of memory, two very noticeable ways are firstly the amount of RAM used by newer game engines will increase “drastically”. I will use Red dead redemption 2 as an example, the game on 4K with maximum details uses around 8 gigabytes of vram and over 10 gigabytes of ram, which combined is 18 gigabytes of usage (ram + vram) in total.
At the start of this generation the PlayStation 4 had 5.5 gigabytes of ram available for developers, compared to the pc that’s a ~ 3x ram usage over this generation. So we can expect similar results in the next generation, while the next consoles will probably stay at 4K the pcs will eventually upgrade to 8K resulting again in much more demanding hardware and therefore of course more ram along with it. How much will be needed is of course not predictable because the hardware requirements do not scale linear. Although it is safe to assume that at the beginning of the next generation a 32 gigabyte ram kit will be absolutely sufficient. Vram will follow a similar trajectory. Also keep in mind new technologies will arrive, with newer ddr5 ram already being on the horizon and new types of vram also being in development allowing for faster low latency ram with higher capacity.

Of course this is only the hardware side of things, the software side is really exciting as we have new ways to allocate and use memory for games much more effective and efficient when compared directly to the last generation. If you are interested, in further details on how ram is used from a game development standpoint you can pm me. But there is a lot of information already online and Microsoft has also listed them in their press release I believe.

So will pcs be affected by the new consoles ? Yes and no, yes being that it will increase the amount of ram required for next generation games and no it will not change the architecture of traditional pc design.

Much more then ram, I think the ssds will change how games are played, as those will become a requirement over time for games to not have long loading times or even resulting in issues with object streaming in scenes, especially in open world games where so much stuff has to be loaded into the world. But then again this as of right now can only be predicted.

 

[Ascend]

I don't see why people see the split as an issue. It's not split like the PS3, where one half is for the GPU and the other for the CPU. Both the CPU and GPU can access the whole memory pool. The "split" was done to achieve a higher bandwidth interface of 320-bit. If they used all 2GB GDDR6 you might have higher speed but lower bandwidth, which is a bigger problem. That's why they split it into 2GB and 1GB GDDR6 chips. But as mentioned, the memory is not actually split.

 

[Shai-Tan]

It's unified memory so it doesn't have to be duplicated. My 2080ti has 11gb. They apparently did some other stuff to make it more efficient unlike PC that brute force so it will likely be fine (I'm guessing someone already said that on pages 2-5)

 

[DaleinCalgary]

It would be nice to have 32GB but it seems just too costly. You can't have everything people.

 

[DESTROYA]

I don't think you understand how this system works. You can't even properly explain why this isn't enough RAM.

It‘s S Shangounchained thread, no need for explanation , just more of the same nonsense .

 

[DESTROYA]

Americans just cannot help themselves, they like this sensationalist bullshit.
Nextgen opted for data-streaming machine. The new architecture is much closer to PS2 than to any other console.
You have a lot of bandwidth in the system but small sizes of everything.
Yes. It will be harder to develop for PC developers, who always lived in a windows/directx world of "infinite ram".
But it should be much easier for console devs who are used to rationing everything and to streaming.
I.e. chill out. It's ok.

OP is not American , try again.

 

[Smaller than Atom]

So being a layman who doesn't build gaming rigs nor play on them (just yet. I want one someday), what is the math behind this? And why Are some debating this?

 

[Techies]

Is this what concern trolling looks like?

It's agonizingly painful.

 

[dcll]

Well that's it I'm convinced, the X is a pos

 

[Sosokrates]

To the ignorant it probably seems this way, but when you factor in the bandwidth increase and ssd, its actually very good, the ssd can now a lot of tasks that have usually been done on RAM. Assets can be swapped out very quickly from RAM.

So I suggest learning a bit more how gddr6 and fast ssd can work together and produce amazing results.

 

[emmerrei]

It was prevedible. 16Gb shared in all the machine isn't really great, but 32 wasn't even too much realistic, just looking at the prices. Of course they pay that much less, and it's soldered directly on the mother board, still the chips are expensive.

Considering that on my PC, i can currently play anything at high detail 144hz with 8gb of ram and 8 of vram, for "nextgen" games, in this case scenario i'm already good. 16+8 are already an overkill.

 

[iJudged]

gasping at straws, looking for something....16gb of DDR6 is more then enough lol...just fucking stop

 

[Romulus]

For a console, that's enough. It's a closed box. Console devs are known to utilize pathetic amounts of RAM for decades with good results. The difference is, this isn't a pathetic amount, it's just on the low side. Not to mention we haven't seen GDDR6 used in a closed box with an SSD. Just like a dev just posted today, its plenty.

 

[CJY]

choo choo motherfuckers.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

With Sony having rumored an even faster SSD also with minimal CPU usage you just don't need much RAM and I would expect them to also shoot for 16GB.

You need enough to paint what's on screen and some reasonable distance in any direction; then your game streams what it needs into RAM in the background. That's what the fast / low CPU usage SSDs give you.

You've never needed 32 GB of system ram on Windows, 16 is already overkill unless you are running multiple VMs or something. You likely constantly have massive amounts of free RAM that is doing nothing for you.

Me over here, with 32GB of RAM, running VMs and other shit while gaming

 

[IntentionalPun]

Me over here, with 32GB of RAM, running VMs and other shit while gaming

Heh, yeah I meant for a gaming rig or general purpose rig. Just really hard to relate someone's PC system ram to a console.

Video card RAM? Sure... but a lot of that on PC is going to be needed unless devs start coding expecting low-CPU usage SSDs. If you don't have a fast ability to fill RAM you need more RAM as you have to pre-fill more data.

People expecting a RAM multiplier like past gens are just being weird for multiple reasons.. for one we are largely going from 4k gaming into "more detailed 4k gaming" so there isn't a HUGE leap in RAM needed, let alone the fact the fast SSDs actually remove some of the need for RAM.

 

[Von Hugh]

PS5 with its 16 GB RAM must be shit now, right? S Shangounchained

 

[Alasterion]

So...

Now that we have the case where PS5 not only has the same amount of RAM, but slower… what is your point S Shangounchained

 

[SuperLupeRap]

So...

Now that we have the case where PS5 not only has the same amount of RAM, but slower… what is your point S Shangounchained

This is hilarious. But then again they were expecting 13 TF

 

[MilkyJoe]

Ram is everything graphics so 16gb is proper shit, infact complete nonesense this is why they kept talking about buzz words like vrs, cause you need tricks to worl with low memory. 16gb isnt next generation its simply a xbox one upgrade.

Considering high memory prices recession and corona virus i cant complain much but thats it 16gb is the nail in the coffin. Xbox fucked up again.

So what will you be playing next gen?

 

[ThatGamingDude]

This sort of stuff always makes me giggle

Wait for facts straight from the source before you make your interpretations

 

[Stuart360]

lol i love it when the concern trolling threads backfire.