Insanemaelstrom
Member
Mod note: title edited for accuracy
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Shuhei Yoshida says he was the one who signed the prototype contract with Probably Monsters
- Thread starter Insanemaelstrom
- Start date
- News
Mod note: title edited for accuracy
Donald mac Ronald
Member
Good guy shu taking the bullet for Sony now he's left? Maybe he volunteered to be the fallguy.
Insanemaelstrom
Member
Probably the second mistake he committed. Could also be why he was forced to resign
Sushi_Combo
Member
Not sure if he knew what the final product would have turned out to be tho, right?
GHG
Gold Member
rm082e
Member
I'm sure a lot of people in the business would have gone into the early history of Concord with a good feeling. It had talented people behind it and it sounds like it was something worth pursuing.
The issue is all the decisions that got made along the way to ramp up the investment. Buying the studio before they shipped a game was very out of place for PlayStation.
The issue is all the decisions that got made along the way to ramp up the investment. Buying the studio before they shipped a game was very out of place for PlayStation.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
LOL and these people will still blame Hermen Hulst and give Yoshida a complete pass.
Skifi28
Member
If Concord was the reason for people to lose their job, I feel like many more heads should have been chopped. I don't know what he saw in the original pitch that made him sign, but surely many eyes saw the game progress right up until launch. Surely someone must have seen something?
TrebleShot
Member
He was stupid to do that but let's not get it twisted someone still had to keep funding it and agreed to release it. They could have pulled the pin much earlier than say two weeks after release.
peish
Member
Shu only signed Firewalk, when they first started, a small promising bunch.
Herman was the one overseeing Concord development, all the stupid WOKE hires and elements probably sneak in during Herman's time.
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Fbh
Member
Lol people are going to read way too much into this.
Contracting a third party studio to work on a prototype for a multiplayer game seems like something perfectly reasonable and normal for someone in his position to do. Game prototypes get made all the time.
The real screw up was from whoever decided to move on from prototype to full production, and then instead of seeing how it was shaping up to be a flop decided Sony should go all in on the game and buy the studio.
Contracting a third party studio to work on a prototype for a multiplayer game seems like something perfectly reasonable and normal for someone in his position to do. Game prototypes get made all the time.
The real screw up was from whoever decided to move on from prototype to full production, and then instead of seeing how it was shaping up to be a flop decided Sony should go all in on the game and buy the studio.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
I wouldn't have guessed that. Pretty surprising, but we know he's made some massive mistakes before. PSVR2, Demon's Souls, and others.
I'm sure there's plenty of blame to go around though considering he's been on indies for years.
I'm sure there's plenty of blame to go around though considering he's been on indies for years.
Topher
Identifies as young
“I signed the prototype contract with Probably Monsters. Harold Ryan (former Bungie CEO) created a new headquarters company and set up 3 studios underneath Probably Monsters, one of which was Firewalk.
"Former PlayStation exec Shuhei Yoshida says that he was the one who signed the prototype contract for Concord."
These do not sound the same.
"Former PlayStation exec Shuhei Yoshida says that he was the one who signed the prototype contract for Concord."
These do not sound the same.
Badlucktroll
Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Concord wasn't Herman or Ryan's fault ...
Astray
Member
Logically, they had to have some sort of ammunition on him to be able to take him out of the big leadership role. And it's not just this, things like the Last Guardian etc had to come in play too.
He's a legend in gaming circles, no doubt about that, but this idea that Jim Ryan and Hermen Hulst just managed to take him out while he's at the very top of his game was always absurd to me.
If anything, him being placed at the Indies job looks like an act of mercy now.
This isn't how the venture capitalism model works. Things can look very good until they don't.
This is a game that simply didn't come together like it should in a lot of ways.
violence
Member
He signed when firewalk was all A players. Bethesda showed us the larger you expand, the easier it is to become mediocre.
I won’t even get into the woke ideology of gender/diversity balancing the development team. Which it’s safe to assume played a part too. Heck I wouldn’t doubt that’s the primary reason.
I won’t even get into the woke ideology of gender/diversity balancing the development team. Which it’s safe to assume played a part too. Heck I wouldn’t doubt that’s the primary reason.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
How do you know Hermen didn’t threaten his family and made him say this?
Orbital2060
Member
Suddenly I remember reading about Probably Monsters on the gamesindustry site, must have been before they got signed with Sony. And their pitch sounded like a recipe for disaster, I remember thinking Ok good luck with that.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
So, it wasn't Hulst. Funny that. Why is it always that Gaf turns out to be some sort of echo-chamber that more often than not is way off the mark?
His last goal was to improve indie support from Playstation and to make his role obsolete. He accomplished his goal and felt it was time to leave.
Read the whole interview. He made it clear that it was just time for him and the oldies to step back and let a new generation take over.
His last goal was to improve indie support from Playstation and to make his role obsolete. He accomplished his goal and felt it was time to leave.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
Bernardougf
Member
So suddenly the naughty dog online game was awsome and he signed the concord contract ..
"Retired" Shu sure is putting a lot of fires out for Sony from home ... very nice of him
"Retired" Shu sure is putting a lot of fires out for Sony from home ... very nice of him
mansoor1980
Member
hey YOSHIDA fans......................
E-Cat
Member
That can't be right, as it would indicate the writers have no journalistic integrity.
Killjoy-NL
Member
There were reports that Sony was unsure about Concord the closer they got to the beta and release.
So maybe they knew as well, but the project was already well underway, so they hoped for the best.
Seeing how they easily recouped the losses for Concord and the Firewalk acquisition, it probably wasn't as big of a deal as some people made it out to be.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
A lot of gamers push revisionist history.
Sony had a bunch of trouble. As you mentioned Last Guardian was an absolute disaster. London Studio and Japan Studio hadn't internally produced anything of value in years under Yoshida.
PlayStation HQ moved to California in 2016 and Shuhei I believe lived in Japan. Having him head the studios out of Japan while the Japanese business was underperforming simply didn't make sense. People want to deify Shuhei Yoshida, but it's not like he was actively making the games.
People pretend as if 6 studios didn't close down under his watch and 2 studios shortly after. Everyone asks why doesn't sony make X game franchise anymore and a big reason for that is actually Yoshida. Guess who never made ANY big investments in Japan... Yoshida... Look at Japan Studio now -- Asobi...That's completely Hulst, but even then not really directly... That's not how decisions get made or executed.
I'm not saying all of this to trash him either, but it's hilarious how people try to turn him into this giant that he never was and ushering him out made sense and continues to make sense.
People hate Hermen Hulst because of Horizon, which is hilarious because you're talking about a franchise that sold over 32 million copies in like 7 years... The entire Persona series since 1996 has sold 23.5 million units... Horizon is a hit franchise...
ByWatterson
Member
Nothing is as simple as GAF wants it to be.
A failure the size of Concord has many fathers.
A failure the size of Concord has many fathers.
Fbh
Member
Concord wasn't Herman or Ryan's fault ...
Shuhei contracted a third party developer to make a prototype for a multiplayer game.
Hulst and Jim Ryan then decided to heavily invest in it, buy the studio and position it as major first party release
How is the Concord disaster Shuhei's fault?
peish
Member
SAN MATEO, Calif., April 20, 2023 – Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC (“SIE”) announced today it has entered into an agreement with ProbablyMonsters Inc. to acquire Firewalk Studios™, a studio of industry-leading creatives developing an original AAA multiplayer game for PlayStation®5 (PS5™) and PC. Firewalk will collaborate alongside world-class development teams, including Bungie and Haven Interactive Studios, to define a new generation of live service experiences for PlayStation gamers.
Based in Bellevue, WA, Firewalk was formed in 2018 as part of ProbablyMonsters, an independent AAA game company founded by CEO Harold Ryan (former CEO, President and Chairman at Bungie) that builds sustainable game teams focusing on original AAA games. Firewalk’s team of best-in-class developers, led by industry veterans Tony Hsu (Studio Head, previously GM and SVP of Destiny at Activision) and Ryan Ellis (Game Director, previously Creative Director at Bungie), have years of collective expertise on some of gaming’s most successful and impactful multiplayer titles. ProbablyMonsters and Firewalk announced an exclusive publishing partnership with SIE in April 2021 and now Firewalk will be the 20th studio to join PlayStation Studios.
“Firewalk Studios is led by a world-class team that is highly experienced and deeply passionate about creating exceptional multiplayer games that foster memorable shared experiences,” said Jim Ryan, President & CEO, Sony Interactive Entertainment. “I’m confident the studio’s upcoming project will be a robust addition to PlayStation Studios’ portfolio, and its live service and technology expertise will be instrumental in helping grow PlayStation’s reach.”
“We’re thrilled to expand upon our collaborative relationship with Firewalk Studios and formally welcome the team to PlayStation Studios,” said Hermen Hulst, Head of PlayStation Studios.
Sony Interactive Entertainment to Acquire Firewalk Studios from ProbablyMonsters Inc
SAN MATEO, Calif., April 20, 2023 – Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC (“SIE”) announced today it has entered into an agreement with ProbablyMonsters Inc. to acquire Firewalk Studios™, a studio of industry-leading creatives developing an original AAA multiplayer game for PlayStation®5 (PS5™) and...sonyinteractive.com
I dont see Shu name drop here! But i see the 2 clowns' names!
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I don't know how easily they recouped their losses
Wasn't there some rumor or something (honestly don't recall how the info came out) about Sony revisiting most of their GAAS and killing some of them since the Concord bomb?
I would count that as a pretty big deal when you start adding up all those costs associated with those projects canceled along with the Concord costs
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Does Colin ask Shuhei about Concords budget or did he conveniently forget to ask him about that?
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
Nothing in their record-breaking financials are alluding to that. I'd bet Sony just pulled the cord earlier and overall investments were not that dramatic (plus I'm sorry but rare Ws like GT7 and HD2 made shit-ton of money back, mind you).
Killjoy-NL
Member
If Concord supposedly cost $400M and Playstation made $800+M just from non-PS platforms last year, Concord flopping wasn't that big of a deal.
Jim Ryan also stated at the time that they didn't expect all gaas titles to be a success and that there criteria for success isn't 'binary'.
All things considered and based on some stuff being shared from the Yoshida interview, it's safe to assume a lot of the drama was way overblown by the gaming community.
DJ12
Member
More to the point it was someone everyone likes.Concord wasn't Herman or Ryan's fault ...
It's a rare miss from Shu, but boy, sorry unspecified gender, what a miss.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Fundamentally to my knowledge Concord was a sound shooter, it's problems was cosmetic.
And I doubt that's what Shu sign off on.
Now the one visiting the studio over the years until release and telling them this looks great has more to answer for.
And that definitely wasn't Shu.
All this does is show's how much the previous guys in charge set up and how little the new did.
Which doesn't look like much.
PurePlatinum
Member
This particular failure is too large to blame on any one executive, IMO. Symptomatic of a broken system more than anything.
viveks86
Member
But but but.. Herrrmennnnnnnn!!
PurePlatinum
Member
ByWatterson
Member
Orbital2060
Member
So Sony ended up working with both heads of Halo Studio? Pete Parsons in acquiring Bungie, and Harold Ryan with Probably Monsters. Who both left Halo, and thought they could catch the same lightning in a different bottle. And they both ended up with failures, that is some wild hubris. A way for the universe to say thank you for ruining Halo for all of us.