At the minimum I would say a progressive would support a progressive tax system.
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This "I'm a progressive but if Hillary is the nominee, I'm not voting" shit is stale
- Thread starter PlayALLtheGames
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At the minimum I would say a progressive would support a progressive tax system.
digita1alchemy
Member
Hillary has half-assed solutions to all my biggest issues, so I don't understand why she should get my vote for free. If Bernie isn't the Democratic canidate then I am voting for Jill Stein. It's not my responsibility to vote for someone I don't agree with just so Trump doesn't win.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
the not voting is a vote for X has long been a problem on the left, especially where minority and gender concerns are involved, and i know this. i don't know how to square the 'this candidate isn't the best for my particular ___ cause but this guy will utterly set me back' vs. 'this party is taking me for granted so i should so them how i feel by not voting.'
I'll be the first to admit I don't know how to square that. It worries me and I know for a fact the Democratic party has let many of us down for a long, long time. I'm just saying maybe the year with an actual white supremacist on the ballot isn't the year to fuck around.
I'll be the first to admit I don't know how to square that. It worries me and I know for a fact the Democratic party has let many of us down for a long, long time. I'm just saying maybe the year with an actual white supremacist on the ballot isn't the year to fuck around.
Yeah this is the point of this thread.
Angelus Errare
Banned
If Bernie wins he's going to have to water down his policies so damn much they'll basically be Hillary's.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
People who support the aggressive, condescending crap in the OP don't just want people to vote for Clinton: they want to beat on people for ever opposing her in the first place. The amusing part is that for all the rightful demonization of Trump, Clinton supporters have been some of the most aggressively negative winners I've seen. They casually classify anyone who disagrees with their candidate on anything as racist, misogynistic narcissists.
It's why you see this hateful vitriol spreading like a cancer in this thread and the forum at large. They don't want your vote: they want to feel superior.
The GOP candidates have steadily become worse so that argument to not fuck around will always be available to a status-quo centrist candidate.
It's why you see this hateful vitriol spreading like a cancer in this thread and the forum at large. They don't want your vote: they want to feel superior.
The GOP candidates have steadily become worse so that argument to not fuck around will always be available to a status-quo centrist candidate.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
What a joke.
No shit. It's like people do not remember the eight years of Obama. How did all that work out guys? Did we get the liberal we elected.
Byakuya769
Member
How is that good for you? Your taxes go up in that scenario (meaning your tax refund has now gone DOWN).
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
So you'll vote for someone who has no chance of winning and help give the Republican candidate an extra push. Sound logic.
HUELEN10
Member
I've yet to meet anyone who guzzles it and actually likes everything the man stands for. Prospective and primary voters I've met all have one thing in common.., they've voted for some, but not all of his points, and see him as strong, and loud, but flawed.
How so? Please elaborate for those who are ignorant of why.
I thought it dealt more with civil rights and social issues than money, but I do see now that you mention it.
Inspector Jones
Member
I am not going to vote for Clinton. I've said it multiple times, but she's not the candidate I want in the white house, though to be fair neither are any of the republicans.
I'll vote for Jill Stein instead.
I'm glad I got to vote for Bernie at least, but he's done. I'm glad he's still running to keep his message heard, but unless Hillary gets indicted it's Trump vs Clinton.
I'll vote for Jill Stein instead.
I'm glad I got to vote for Bernie at least, but he's done. I'm glad he's still running to keep his message heard, but unless Hillary gets indicted it's Trump vs Clinton.
bitesnintendog
Member
To those saying their vote won't matter in their state, do you not want to send some sort of message that you're against a hate spewing bigot?
I say that as a person whose vote almost never technically matters in their state but votes in every election anyway.
I say that as a person whose vote almost never technically matters in their state but votes in every election anyway.
Don't worry about it. This is just catharsis for some NeoGAFers who (apparently) spend too much time obsessing over Reddit and Twitter and fail to understand the nuance of non-presidential races, let alone the fact that there are such things as non-swing states.
Besides, if we didn't have at least one of these dumpster fires of a thread on the front page of OT, it just wouldn't be an election year on NeoGAF. It's a bit like watching the Olympics: you don't really look forward to it at all, but sometimes you just can't help but get stuck watching the silliness of it all when it flickers by.
Also:
Editor's note: I always vote. Mid-terms, downticket, propositions, the whole nine yards.
Well, let's really hope then that Hillary will be elected who, like Obama, will only appoint a republican-lite instead of a republican full version for the Supreme court.
Country: SAVED.
Aaronology
Member
Aye. This election cycle is becoming pretty enlightening for me, between what Trump's popularity says about America (and the amount of white Americans who support him) and Bernie's vocal minority of diehards pledging to segue to him or sit out.
And I thought I was cynical before...
Abinash117
Member
Meh people make crazy decisions all the time based on feelings. I really don't care if some of those people throw hissy fits and vote against their interests. Trump is going to lose anyway so I don't really care. Although, I feel most aren't going to vote for Trump and instead to not vote anyway which I think is fair.
I think some my call themselves progressives, but mostly care about a select things like being anti-establishment and changing the "status quo". I can see where the logic is though.
Honestly though and at the same time, I find that to be complete horseshit. The status quo is something that seems like a self-inflected wound by people who didn't even pay attention to politics since the last 5 years( and those that didn't even vote) and is mad at the democrats and Obama for not being able to pass legislation with Republicans making sure it doesn't get passed and thus no progression to anything. The only thing that the democrats to get anything done is compromise on something that could get some form of progressive policies going. It is fine being made at the status quo, but understand to why it is even there. Voting for Trump makes no damn difference considering he'll either make things worse or nothing is going to get done whatsoever thus keeping the status quo for even longer, and if Donald Trump is very unpopular the establishment is going to get even stronger.
If people want progressive policies then vote local and in state elections, the president can't pass bills on their own and if the party does not have complete control over congress like over 60 senators and over 218 house members than trying to pass extremely liberal bills will be impossible without some form of compromise at the very least.
You don't have to vote for the president, but vote for progressive and liberal mayors, governors, congressmen, etc.
I think some my call themselves progressives, but mostly care about a select things like being anti-establishment and changing the "status quo". I can see where the logic is though.
Honestly though and at the same time, I find that to be complete horseshit. The status quo is something that seems like a self-inflected wound by people who didn't even pay attention to politics since the last 5 years( and those that didn't even vote) and is mad at the democrats and Obama for not being able to pass legislation with Republicans making sure it doesn't get passed and thus no progression to anything. The only thing that the democrats to get anything done is compromise on something that could get some form of progressive policies going. It is fine being made at the status quo, but understand to why it is even there. Voting for Trump makes no damn difference considering he'll either make things worse or nothing is going to get done whatsoever thus keeping the status quo for even longer, and if Donald Trump is very unpopular the establishment is going to get even stronger.
If people want progressive policies then vote local and in state elections, the president can't pass bills on their own and if the party does not have complete control over congress like over 60 senators and over 218 house members than trying to pass extremely liberal bills will be impossible without some form of compromise at the very least.
You don't have to vote for the president, but vote for progressive and liberal mayors, governors, congressmen, etc.
not psycho
Member
On the other hand, if Republicans are swept out of office en masse, significant change will happen (including, with a massively lopsided turnout, the potential end of the Republican party and creation of a new liberal party, but that's still unrealistic given that Republicans aren't dead yet). Much more change than would happen with a one-time effort of electing Sanders while letting Republicans maintain power. But that requires a lot of people to vote.
Sanders worries me with his emphasis on free college. A great goal, but not imo the absolute top priority (justice system reform, infrastructure, health care, pre-college education, cheaper college).
One of the most socialist policies in American history is also one of the most devastating policies in American history for Black people. Look up Ta-Nehisi Coates on the FHA. A socialist policy is not immune to racism or inefficiency, and we need to be very careful that it doesn't have such an effect. Free college as a top priority might greatly help people with money (who would not have gotten financial based aid) and people from strong pre-college education systems (thus getting into top schools). It might not be as efficient at helping the poor or those from school systems in dire conditions, who would benefit more from targeted initiatives.
If Sanders is too ideological to crunch the numbers, consider efficiency, and decide which to prioritize first, that is a concern.
But that's kind of beside the point, because the Republican party, at its core, is intellectually bankrupt. It's hard to make this statement without sounding like "X vs Y", but I honestly have no warm, fuzzy feelings for Democrats. It's just that a rational observer will look at the "trickle down" economics, the prioritizing of low taxes for the most wealthy, anti-science and racist rhetoric, the underhanded reduction of options for womens' health, the suppression of voters, and on and on, and determine that the current Republican party needs to go.
Furthermore, recognize that the Republican party has absolutely no qualms about ruling without majority support. They will not hesitate in the slightest to disingenuously claim a public mandate even if they knew most of the country hated them. They will not hesitate to increase inequality to the fullest extent they are able. Every bit of power they grasp will be used to hold the country back. If you are trying to lock them in a closet with a box of cigarettes until they get sick of it, you are deluded. They'll smoke 'em all and ask for more.
The solution is absolutely not to bet everything on a one-time effort for Sanders so you can put up a "mission accomplished" banner while Republicans don't let him do anything, and he potentially fails to prioritize the right thing if a glimmer of opportunity arises. The solution is harder than that. And it requires a whole lot of voting, not just one vote to end all votes.
Every single election you establishment Democrat supporters try to sell the Left the same bill of goods, vote for our candidate or the devil will win. Every single election. What have the socialists, laborists, Marxists, Greens, and similar leftists gotten out of this deal from the last two Democratic presidents? Fuck all, that's what.
You sabotage and villify any legitimate Left voice that comes close to getting the Democratic nom, and you make their supporters out to be naive idealists or Communists or whatever red-baiting bullshit you can come up with. You call us anti-feminists or racists and actively work against our efforts to have our voices represented in the party. You do all of this while at the same time insisting that we fall in line with whatever pro-Capitalist, anti-labor aristocrat you've put up to the microphone to promise us little more than business as usual, and this cycle repeats every time.
I'm a citizen of Texas and will be submitting an absentee ballot, so my vote is doubly useless, but you can bet whoever I vote for will be someone whose ideals match mine, not the one who simply gives me less fear.
You sabotage and villify any legitimate Left voice that comes close to getting the Democratic nom, and you make their supporters out to be naive idealists or Communists or whatever red-baiting bullshit you can come up with. You call us anti-feminists or racists and actively work against our efforts to have our voices represented in the party. You do all of this while at the same time insisting that we fall in line with whatever pro-Capitalist, anti-labor aristocrat you've put up to the microphone to promise us little more than business as usual, and this cycle repeats every time.
I'm a citizen of Texas and will be submitting an absentee ballot, so my vote is doubly useless, but you can bet whoever I vote for will be someone whose ideals match mine, not the one who simply gives me less fear.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Do you actually believe the shit you are typing? Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan are republican-lite in what world?
If you're a white boy you won't have to worry about Donald Trump banning all of your people from legally entering the United States on absolutely no grounds.
.
I fucking hate everything about this election. Worst timeline. :/
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Until we get major election reform/overhaul, it's all we have. First past the post inherently has this problem.
And unfortunately such a change is also against both parties' interests, so it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to accomplish.
Are you calling Justice Kagan a Republican-lite????
Terrible conclusion. I'd say a much more saner summary would be people who disagree with racist, misogynistic candidates don't want them elected as Presidents of the United States.
I can feel the projection hitting me in the face like a 2x4,
Tesseract
Banned
words well spitted, my friend
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
The fact that you don't understand why Obama nominated Merrick Garland means you shouldn't vote anyway.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Just to show the other side of this:
I'm on the complete opposite side of this. Hillary Clinton is the quintessential politician and the type of person that I wouldn't have voted for until Donald Trump came along. That man makes me want to become a Doomsday Prepper. As we speak I'm hoarding jasmine rice, alkaline water and have been downloading porn alphabetically since Super Tuesday.
I'm on the complete opposite side of this. Hillary Clinton is the quintessential politician and the type of person that I wouldn't have voted for until Donald Trump came along. That man makes me want to become a Doomsday Prepper. As we speak I'm hoarding jasmine rice, alkaline water and have been downloading porn alphabetically since Super Tuesday.
digita1alchemy
Member
Like I said, it's not my responsibility to prop up Hillary if she doesn't care about me. If Trump wins, then obviously he has the support of the majority of the country. Sad, but true.
HUELEN10
Member
I like the cut of your jib, and can totally respect this, even though I don't exactly agree with it.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Yeah, totally what his real SCOTUS picks were. GTFOOH. This bullshit "nominee" he just threw at the rim was to troll the Right. It's not real.
He knows this guy has zero chance of getting confirmed.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Ugh, no. I voted for Bernie; we are saying IF he doesn't win don't take your toys and go home.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Lol Hillary was always the forerunner from day 1. Bernie was always going to be a long shot. But go ahead and handover the ballot to either a hypocritical teabagger or Hitler. If you want to ruin this country go ahead.
Preferential voting is a blessing for any nation that has it.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
Motherfucking truth, every word.
TemplaerDude
Member
But I've already said I don't trust either candidate on any position, so why would I bother voting for either? Obviously most people on here are going to roll their eyes and say "clearly pick the not-republican", but I just don't see a point, I don't think either of them will make decisions I agree with, one of the choices this time just happens to be a blowhard. You guys need to fix your election systems and parties if this is the choice people actually are faced with.
I'm not American, mind you, so I obviously don't know any better. I just don't see how a Clinton presidency is some how advancing my beliefs as a progressive other than not letting Trump be President and that's like picking a shot to the nuts over a kick in the ass. I think both arguments smell like shit, but that's mostly your broken parties and system.
Like I said, I don't know any better.
kitchenmotors
Banned
No point in responding to him. His views aren't surprising considering his past threads and diet racism remarks.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
lmao
it's fine, the rest of us will get by like we always have while you wax on about ideological purity from the comfort of anywhere but a polling booth.
at least Trump supporters are honest.
it's fine, the rest of us will get by like we always have while you wax on about ideological purity from the comfort of anywhere but a polling booth.
at least Trump supporters are honest.
Then this thread isn't about you.
VendettaRed07
Member
Do I need to read this thread or is it 4 pages of long winded "both parties are the same" and "I'm above the system/ too much of a special snowflake to pick a side" posts.
That's what it is, isn't it.
That's what it is, isn't it.
The President gets to decide the fate of the Supreme Court for a very long time.
Think about the number of lives that will be ruined under a Republican president for this very simple reason. Minorities and oppressed groups that need your help to get someone in the white house who won't fuck them over.
Think about the number of lives that will be ruined under a Republican president for this very simple reason. Minorities and oppressed groups that need your help to get someone in the white house who won't fuck them over.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Then educate yourself on how vastly different this country would be under a Clinton/Trump presidency.
You got it.
Obviously they still have a choice, and we can judge them for it. This is a discussion though, and laying out reasons to do or do not vote is the subject.
To go further: why should they support her? Well, if they want to get rid of citizens united, contrary to popular belief, Hillary has been against it before Bernie was even a factor in the election. She's stated that that's the biggest litmus test for any supreme court justice nominee she puts forth. If you don't trust her, fine(I don't trust any politicians at all, myself, all of them try to look honest, some are better at it than others), but you should trust that she will want to get re-elected and she has to nominate supreme court nominees in her first term. She also wants to go down in history as changing things for the better in this country. You can trust her she's sufficiently motivated for that.
That's one check off Bernie's agenda.
Now for healthcare: she's wanted universal healthcare since before Bernie was a factor in this election, as well. She doesn't want to go as far as Bernie does, but it would be progress toward what Bernie is aiming for.
We'll call that half-a-check.
Oh and education? She wants to lessen student loan debt, make community colleges free, and lower tuition. It's not free college like Bernie wants, but it's headed in that direction.
Another half-a-check.
The list goes on. Yes, on foreign policy she is a lot more agresive than most Democrats, but she's definitely on the same trajectory as Bernie domestically. If you give two shits about Bernie's agenda then bernie supporters should get past their irrational hatred of Hilary and look past the Wall Street boogiemen and see her for what she is. She's not exactly what Bernie supporters want, but then you have Trump or Cruz on the other side of the aisle that will go in the opposite direction of Bernie on all issues.
And if you really think Trump will overturn Citizen's United, you've got to realize he hasn't said he'll do that once(in fact, his favored supreme court nominees would most certainly uphold it). There's also talk that he'll start taking establishment money to repay the loans he gave his own campaign during the general.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Don't forget "I didn't/won't vote but you guys are all mean"
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
This right here...
theignoramus
Member
Back in the early 90s, Hillary was stomping out the "bimbo eruptions" of women her husband made consensual (and unwanted) sexual advances upon. Now shes campaigning on a womens rights platform.
She is a wolf in sheeps clothing, but at least she will appoint progressives to the Supreme Court, moral failings notwithstanding.
It sucks that Bernie was so abysmal at connecting with minorities, hes a genuinely good man.
She is a wolf in sheeps clothing, but at least she will appoint progressives to the Supreme Court, moral failings notwithstanding.
It sucks that Bernie was so abysmal at connecting with minorities, hes a genuinely good man.
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