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[TheVoidDragon]

They also have sales predictions in the bankruptcy filing.

Note: The document confirms Atlas is from Relic, and is presumably their f2p MOBA game.

Development budget

Financial projections

Projected balance sheet

Source: http://www.kccllc.net/documents/8826100/8826100121219000000000002.pdf

No mention of whatever Dark Millenium Online is now? Very disappointed if that's true.

 

[Thraktor]

There were no plans for Space Marine 2 or Dawn of War 3? I could have sworn someone said DoW3 was in the works at least.

Still, sad to see them go.

I'm pretty sure Relic have talked about Dawn of War 3 and everything, so it's strange not to see it here. Perhaps it's been postponed to try to get Company of Heroes 2 out as soon as possible?

 

[AzaK]

So Darksiders 2 was expected to sell 2.4 M copies; made $78.2M in revenue and up to now it has lost THQ $500K?

The industry is in a fucked place where a game can sell 2.4 million units and still lose money.

 

[Hindle]

South Park if it's a great game could sell 3m. Hopefully with strong word of mouth much like Arkham Asylum had.

 

[Lime]

What about the Warhammar MMO turned singleplayer game?

 

[Dictator93]

Isnt that turtle rock studios game CE3?

Also Homefront 2 eh?
I wonder what that is like...

 

[TheVoidDragon]

What about the Warhammar MMO turned singleplayer game?

It's not looking too hopeful for it even being released in any form now. I was really looking forward to it as well, any new W40K game would be good.

 

[doniewhalberg]

I'm just happy that Metro and South Park are safe, but I'm interested in a few there. Homefront 2, the turtle rock game and the THQ Montreal thing could all be awesome.

 

[NinjaFridge]

Didn't know about 1666 by Patrice, looking forward to hearing more about it. Also looking forward to SR4

 

[saichi]

so most their titles are budget around 80 millions? seem crazy high

 

[GitarooMan]

The industry is in a fucked place where a game can sell 2.4 million units and still lose money.

Like someone else said, assuming a lot of those units were sold at steep discounts, it's really not that surprising.

 

[MYeager]

Their sales projections for their early 2013 games are quite optimistic as well.

4 million projected for 2 new IPs? That's crazy.

 

[Schweinehund]

Hell I'd play a relic dota game. They made some of the best rts's ever.

No dawn of war 3 is kind of a bummer.

 

[Coolwhip]

Do I read correctly that Saints Row cost 120 million to make/market?

 

[Ahasverus]

Curious about 1666.

I will lol if desilets makes an assassins creed spiritual successor finaly in London (1666 is the year of the great fire) before Ubisoft.

 

[Hindle]

If they were to make a 3rd Darksiders, I think they could reach thier sales targets. The series seems to be having similar lines of growth as Saints Row.

 

[fates]

What about the Warhammar MMO turned singleplayer game?

From THQ, it's probably a no-go. But GW will probably give the 40K rights to someone else. They just recently granted the Warhammer Fantasy license to Sega.

Or Relic will keep the rights and... I dunno, someone might pick them up, or someone will pick up THQ and them with it.

 

[Drencrom]

Evolve is Turtle Rock's (Left 4 Dead creators) CryEngine 3 multiplayer co-op shooter that used to be called Wild.

I like the sound of this

 

[AHA-Lambda]

The thing I'm shocked at is that Metro only cost $50m. I don't know the budget of the first but that was considered a cheap game =/

 

[batbeg]

Darksiders II was crazy expensive. I've only played the first but 75 million, even counting the marketing, makes me wonder what happened there.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

The thing I'm shocked at is that Metro only cost $50m. I don't know the budget of the first but that was considered a cheap game =/

It didn't cost 50 mil. Subtracting the 63 from 11 doesn't equal the budget of the game. Someone else will explain it better

Anyway, this is super interesting info. Very revealing... we've never seen anything like this before have we?

 

[marrec]

It didn't cost 50 mil. Subtracting the 63 from 11 doesn't equal the budget of the game. Someone else will explain it better

Anyway, this is super interesting info. Very revealing... we've never seen anything like this before have we?

Didn't we see a similar release with Midway's filing?

 

[the TMO]

I see this and i ask myself how the other teams can floating around with even more poor numbers.

 

[Ahasverus]

This industry is fucked up. CD Projekt made The Witcher 2 with 14M, MercurySteam made Lords of Shadow with 15M, and they are far better looking games than all THQ catalogue, also arguably better. Yet American companies spend millions and millions to churn out half assed products.

I smess a crash. Soon.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

This industry is fucked up. CD Projekt made The Witcher 2 with 14M, MercurySteam made Lords of Shadow with 15M, and they are far better looking games than all THQ catalogue, also arguably better. Yet American companies spend millions and millions to churn out half assed products.

I smess a crash. Soon.

Any links for those? Just curious.

It didn't cost 50 mil. Subtracting the 63 from 11 doesn't equal the budget of the game. Someone else will explain it better

I don't just mean dev costs if that's what you thought, unless I'm missing something else.

 

[Dictator93]

This industry is fucked up. CD Projekt made The Witcher 2 with 14M, MercurySteam made Lords of Shadow with 15M, and they are far better looking games than all THQ catalogue, also arguably better. Yet American companies spend millions and millions to churn out half assed products.

I smess a crash. Soon.

The cost for games like metro are actually a lot less. The information is not available for you to make these predictions imo.

 

[Nirolak]

so most their titles are budget around 80 millions? seem crazy high

The thing I'm shocked at is that Metro only cost $50m. I don't know the budget of the first but that was considered a cheap game =/

Darksiders II was crazy expensive. I've only played the first but 75 million, even counting the marketing, makes me wonder what happened there.

Actually, net sales I think is the revenue they get.

For Saints Row 4 for example, $36.2 average sell in price * 5 million copies is $181 million.

From the average sell in price, they then have to subtract the console licensing fee and cost of manufacturing (usually $12 no matter what), the retailer margin (~15% for a publisher like THQ), and then remove the marketing and development budget from whatever remains.

 

[KageMaru]

Interesting info, thanks OP!

This industry is fucked up. CD Projekt made The Witcher 2 with 14M, MercurySteam made Lords of Shadow with 15M, and they are far better looking games than all THQ catalogue, also arguably better. Yet American companies spend millions and millions to churn out half assed products.

I smess a crash. Soon.

Metro is one of the best looking games out there and I expect the same will apply to Last Light =P

 

[Tyrax]

there is another game. Crawler (working title) by Vigil in the document.

edit:

4 Player dungeon crawler from the Darksiders team?
Ok, I am on board

 

[Lime]

This industry is fucked up. CD Projekt made The Witcher 2 with 14M, MercurySteam made Lords of Shadow with 15M, and they are far better looking games than all THQ catalogue, also arguably better. Yet American companies spend millions and millions to churn out half assed products.

I smess a crash. Soon.

Polish wages are incredibly low compared to European and American/Canadian labor laws.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Actually, net sales I think is the revenue they get.

For Saints Row 4 for example, $36.2 average sell in price * 5 million copies is $181 million.

From the average sell in price, they then have to subtract the console licensing fee and cost of manufacturing (usually $12 no matter what), the retailer margin (~15% for a publisher like THQ), and then remove the marketing and development budget from whatever remains.

Oh right. So we can't really estimate the budgets of these games can we? :/

 

[Globox_82]

so evolve, 1666, and crawler are new IPs? sweet if thats the case

 

[MikeE21286]

Wow Darksiders 2 lost money

 

[antitrop]

Wow Darksiders 2 lost money

I bet their advertising budget was as large as the game dev budget.

I was visiting a friend in LA back in July and there was a billboard on every block for that game. By far the most prominent advertising campaign I saw in the city at that time.

 

[Matt]

This industry is fucked up. CD Projekt made The Witcher 2 with 14M, MercurySteam made Lords of Shadow with 15M, and they are far better looking games than all THQ catalogue, also arguably better. Yet American companies spend millions and millions to churn out half assed products.

I smess a crash. Soon.

While your overall point is correct of course, it DOES take a lot more money to develop something in the US then it does to develop it in Poland...

 

[metalslimer]

While your overall point is correct of course, it DOES take a lot more money to develop something in the US then it does to develop it in Poland...

Surprising to me there's not more development studios in China.

 

[ii Stryker]

I can see Homefront 2 @ 4m easily. if everyone is willing to buy into the MOH games and those dudebro turds sell around 5m+ then the Homefront IP is a much more interesting proposition IMO.

It'll be using Cyrengine 3 and developed by Crytek UK (formerly Free Radical) too. I'm looking forward to seeing more on Homefront 2!


Not surprised about Darksiders 2. it was decent but the loot mechanic was really underwhelming and the story wasn't very good. I preferred the gameplay design and story of DS1 and had DS2 been a continuation of that it would have been better.

DS2 was my biggest disappointment this year.

 

[Scotch]

Love seeing them new IP's for next gen. Here's hoping THQ gets to publish them.

 

[jcm]

Actually, net sales I think is the revenue they get.

For Saints Row 4 for example, $36.2 average sell in price * 5 million copies is $181 million.

From the average sell in price, they then have to subtract the console licensing fee and cost of manufacturing (usually $12 no matter what), the retailer margin (~15% for a publisher like THQ), and then remove the marketing and development budget from whatever remains.

So you think the $36 is retail revenue? It would be odd for that to be in THQ's report, since it doesn't affect their P&L at all. I'd guess it's more likely to be wholesale revenue, with the retailer margin already excluded.

Surprising to me there's not more development studios in China.

Western studios outsource lots of art and modeling to China already.

 

[Famassu]

I see this and i ask myself how the other teams can floating around with even more poor numbers.

They didn't develop a massive Zelda-like adventure game for HD consoles.

 

[Nirolak]

So you think the $36 is retail revenue? It would be odd for that to be in THQ's report, since it doesn't affect their P&L at all. I'd guess it's more likely to be wholesale revenue, with the retailer margin already excluded.



Western studios outsource lots of art and modeling to China already.

Right actually retailer margin excluded would make sense, but I suspect they're not removing things like the cost of manufacturing and licensing.

 

[Orca]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Homefront 2 did 4 million. The first had a pretty decent following and with Crytek UK on board it'd get a lot of attention.

 

[vocab]

That Homefront 2 prediction is ridiculous. It might hit that number after like 10 steam sales.

 

[jcm]

Right actually retailer margin excluded would make sense, but I suspect they're not removing things like the cost of manufacturing and licensing.

I agree. It also might not include price protection and returns.