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videogamedunkey (Dunky) Thread

M

Mezoly

Member
I couldn't disagree more with him today if I tried.

1. Youtubers also get sponsored.
2. Youtubers are often get carried away with circlejerks when reviewing games.
3. Mass Effect 7/10 was deserved and probably higher.
4. Some Objectivity? get the fuck out of here with that talk. That's straight out of KotakuInAction talking points. Even bugs are not objective because some might not have them and might not bother them,
5. I don't mind IGN assign reviewers to different people. So What? If I watch IGN, I would know that Justin Davis doesn't like Sonic and I wouldn't care about his opinion.
6. Taking a couple of seconds of 5 minutes video about a review to say they hated the game but gave it a 9 is misleading.

A mistake in his video: the first Crash game turtle jump is not ND fault, VV changed the jump physics and it messed up with the high road level.
 
F

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Hopeford said:
The point I found most important about his video is the thing about getting an idea about your favorite reviewer's tastes. That's the only way reviews can be useful because, honestly, games are too subjective. If someone who hates JRPGs says a JRPG sucks, I won't take it under consideration because of course they'd say that. But if someone who prefers JRPGs also hates that game, then man maybe Arc Rise Fantasia is really a bad game. (It is)
Click to expand...
Wait huh, I thought the consensus was that arc rise fantasia was a pretty good game just with horrible voice acting
 
Riposte

Riposte

Member
Squire said:
Which is really funny, considering God Hand should be an example of what people claim to be asking for, in part: A spectrum of perspectives.

A reviewer stepped outside of the 7-10 range, but it didn't benefit a game you like, so it's bullshit. Just exposes how disingenuous these arguments are.
Click to expand...

IIRC it was revealed in some fashion that the reviewer didn't get passed the first area.
 
C

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Squire said:
"Decentralized criticism"...

You mean... web sites aren't intellectual monoliths? I mean, what even is a byline?

Are you fucking kidding me? I swear, only gamers have this much of a chip on their shoulder about reviews. No other fan base does this shit. Contrast this attitude with anything you see in OT about film criticism. It's not even bottom of the barrel it's underground.
Click to expand...

Yep, have to disagree with him completely there. That he seriously made that point is pretty baffling. He does have a point on the body/score discrepancy. Sometimes the text feels more positive or negative than what you'd see in the score. Another argument to get rid of scores completely. It can't be avoided though. Not only because the sites use it, but also because of Metacritic. A score/average is way more important now than any points in the review itself.
 
M

MrBadger

Member
That Game Critics video felt like it was really preaching to the choir about a bunch of cliches surrounding game critics that aren't really true or relevant. I don't think a game review has to be anything more than a bunch of impressions with a number slapped at the end to give off a general consensus on whether something's good or not. They're not that important...

Plus a lot of the games the internet considers "awful" or "buggy messes" aren't really that bad outside of a few issues that matter more to internet-goers than Joe Public. That's why supposedly terrible games still get decent scores.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Hopeford said:
The point I found most important about his video is the thing about getting an idea about your favorite reviewer's tastes. That's the only way reviews can be useful because, honestly, games are too subjective. If someone who hates JRPGs says a JRPG sucks, I won't take it under consideration because of course they'd say that. But if someone who prefers JRPGs also hates that game, then man maybe Arc Rise Fantasia is really a bad game. (It is)
Click to expand...

It's up to people to individually be mature enough to find critical tastes aligned with themselves, if that's what they want to do. The only obligation any publication has to both writers and readers (on this specific topic, anyway) is the byline they put at the top or bottom of the piece.

And honestly, people are free to use reviews as buying guides that way if they really want to. But even that is really pigeonholing how you deal with games on a critical level. Someone that's genuinely interested in good criticism should be going out of their own way to find well-written, well-argued reviews by folks with tastes completely different from their own, hopefully expanding their own.
 
X

XANDER CAGE

Member
Greatest Ever said:
Remember when GameSpot said GTA V was profoundly misogynistic and gave GTA V a 9/10?
Click to expand...

I mean, something can be extremely bad at one thing and good at a lot of other things. That's the point of criticism, and I think it's something a lot of people miss when they get defensive about their favorite things being criticized.

Nas says some pretty homophobic things on Illmatic, but that doesn't mean the rest of the album isn't fantastic, or that it doesn't deserve all of the accolades it received in the 90s and still receives today. GTAV can be a 9/10 game and still be criticized for its writing. It's worth talking about, even if it doesn't sour the entire experience.
 
M

Mezoly

Member
Contact said:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gta+v+gamespot
First link.
Click to expand...
Before my comment, I went to the review and did ctrl + f for misogynistic and a bunch of other terms and didn't find anything significant. It turned out it was for PS4 version and the PS3 version had a different reviewer. Plus he made the claim he should provide the link so people would get the full context. It turns out there is such a thing called nuance that is lost on some people. A reviewer could hate something in a game but love it overall and like it so much to give it a 9.
 
B

Blackquill

Member
Even though I think that US / UK reviewers really suck, the fact that reviewers in the same website that have differents opinions is not a problem at all, I don't see where he was going with that.
 
H

Hopeford

Member
Squire said:
It's up to people to individually be mature enough to find critical tastes aligned with themselves, if that's what they want to do. The only obligation any publication has to both writers and readers (on this specific topic, anyway) is the byline they put at the top or bottom of the piece.

And honestly, people are free to use reviews as buying guides that way if they really want to. But even that is really pigeonholing how you deal with games on a critical level. Someone that's genuinely interested in good criticism should be going out of their own way to find well-written, well-argued reviews by folks with tastes completely different from their own, hopefully expanding their own.
Click to expand...

I'm not arguing that publications have any sort of responsibility. They are free to do whatever they want. I'm just saying that I personally find reviews vastly pointless if you don't know the reviewer's tastes.

foxuzamaki said:
Wait huh, I thought the consensus was that arc rise fantasia was a pretty good game just with horrible voice acting
Click to expand...

I was really not a fan of it, to be honest. Voice acting was bad, but the story also had issues.
 
H

Hupsel

Member
Yeah Idk why this video exists... more youtubers trying to prove that they exist and are more worthy than traditional media? The media can also make points and a pointless video why youtubers are much worse than them for content
 
DevilDog

DevilDog

Member
Hupsel said:
Yeah Idk why this video exists... more youtubers trying to prove that they exist and are more worthy than traditional media? The media can also make points and a pointless video why youtubers are much worse than them for content
Click to expand...

What is this post?

Dunkey needs proof of existence apparently.
 
G

Greatest Ever

Member
XANDER CAGE said:
I mean, something can be extremely bad at one thing and good at a lot of other things. That's the point of criticism, and I think it's something a lot of people miss when they get defensive about their favorite things being criticized.

Nas says some pretty homophobic things on Illmatic, but that doesn't mean the rest of the album isn't fantastic, or that it doesn't deserve all of the accolades it received in the 90s and still receives today. GTAV can be a 9/10 game and still be criticized for its writing. It's worth talking about, even if it doesn't sour the entire experience.
Click to expand...

There's so much more to say about GTA V. In series tradition, it has an eclectic assortment of radio stations featuring great songs from numerous genres and eras. In a break with series tradition, it also has an excellent ambient score of its own that lends missions more cinematic flavor. On a less positive note, it's deeply frustrating that, while its central and supporting male characters are flawed and complex characters, with a few extremely minor exceptions (such as the aforementioned optional getaway driver), GTA V has little room for women except to portray them as strippers, prostitutes, long-suffering wives, humorless girlfriends and goofy, new-age feminists we're meant to laugh at.
Characters constantly spout lines that glorify male sexuality while demeaning women, and the billboards and radio stations of the world reinforce this misogyny, with ads that equate manhood with sleek sports cars while encouraging women to purchase a fragrance that will make them ”smell like a bitch." Yes, these are exaggerations of misogynistic undercurrents in our own society, but not satirical ones. With nothing in the narrative to underscore how insane and wrong this is, all the game does is reinforce and celebrate sexism. The beauty of cruising in the sun-kissed Los Santos hills while listening to ”Higher Love" by Steve Winwood turns sour really quick when a voice comes on the radio that talks about using a woman as a urinal
Click to expand...

This was coming from a transgender reviewer who was one of the most unfortunately harassed reviewers of her time there, and one who constantly included gender roles as a source of compliments and complaints in her reviews. She was absolutely in the position to go harsher on this game's score, especially on a position that was incredibly important to her, and she gives the game a score that says Superb.

The writing simply does not match up with the score given, especially how harsh she (rightfully) is with the game's pathetic portrayal of women. And don't get me wrong, there's a lot of things wrong with GTA V, it's an incredibly mediocre game in nearly all aspects, but I fail to see how what she wrote there correlates with her score (even having read the rest of the review).
 
S

Spring-Loaded

Member
Greatest Ever said:
This was coming from a transgender reviewer who was one of the most unfortunately harassed reviewers of her time there, and one who constantly included gender roles as a source of compliments and complaints in her reviews. She was absolutely in the position to go harsher on this game's score, especially on a position that was incredibly important to her, and she gives the game a score that says Superb.

The writing simply does not match up with the score given, especially how harsh she (rightfully) is with the game's pathetic portrayal of women. And don't get me wrong, there's a lot of things wrong with GTA V, it's an incredibly mediocre game in nearly all aspects, but I fail to see how what she wrote there correlates with her score (even having read the rest of the review).
Click to expand...
Did she choose the score?
 
M

Mr. Nice_Guy

Member
Creamium said:
Yep, have to disagree with him completely there. That he seriously made that point is pretty baffling. He does have a point on the body/score discrepancy. Sometimes the text feels more positive or negative than what you'd see in the score. Another argument to get rid of scores completely. It can't be avoided though. Not only because the sites use it, but also because of Metacritic. A score/average is way more important now than any points in the review itself.
Click to expand...

See I feel like numbers could not be more useless in regards to reviews. I have never gotten a piece of useful information from a number tacked onto the bottom of a review. Hearing about the specific things a reviewer or friend whose tastes I am familiar with liked or disliked helps me form an opinion better than whether something got an 8 or 9. But I'm also one of those people that sees Metacritic as less than useless, and mostly just a number aggregator for fans to wave around when discussing games they like or dislike.
 
N

NotLiquid

Member
Velikost said:
Dunkey lost me when he included Giant Bomb's logo in his collage of review sites.
Click to expand...

That's another thing, I think he sorely underestimates how much people do care about gaming websites in terms of their personalities. Sites like EZA and Giant Bomb are so big primarily because they cultivate definitive identities in regards to the people and personalities who write and make content for those sites. We know someone like Jeff Gerstmann hates Yoshi with a passion. We know Kyle Bosman has some choice words about Nintendo's creative heads.

Ignoring that strikes me as elevating his own platform because of his own laziness and/or perceived superiority of him and his associates.
 
P

Playsage

Member
Permanently A said:
I mean, this video was kind of pointless. He tries to have his cake and eat it too when he acknowledges that he lost focus in the video when he goes off on the Crash tangent. Also does the exact same thing with the tired trope of building a strawman from youtube comments to knock down. Also his scale doesn't make any sense, a 3/5 = 60% which is a shitty score. Uncharted 4 isn't a 3/5. What is the additional 40% additional improvements to be made to Uncharted 4? It doesn't exist. A very disjointed and convoluted video. 9/10
Click to expand...
That's not how a 5 star rating system works...

A 3/5 pretty much says "this is a competent product for today's standards"

If you want to translate it so bad into a "out of 10" rating it would be much closer to a 7 or a 7.5

If Metacritic translates it mathematically... It just further proves the depthless value of numerical ratings

Velikost said:
Dunkey lost me when he included Giant Bomb's logo in his collage of review sites.
Click to expand...
I Guess that's just a collection of popular names in the industry

He also shows a screen od an article about Jeff's departure from Gamespot for irony/proof of the "dangerous" ties between game publishers and review sites
 
S

ScientificPizza

Banned
it's a good video but I disagree about the variety of voices reviewing games within an organisation. that's a good thing

though the rush to be the first review out there and to have it on launch day means that most launch day reviews are kind of worthless to me. i obviously understand the business and reasoning behind wanting that review to be there the second the game is available for purchase, but flying through games as fast as you can to meet a deadline is not going to give you the same experience as that of people who just play the game. i value thinkpieces about games that come out in the weeks and months and years after a game has launched much more than i ever will a launch day/window review.

early reviews are just basically indicators of whether or not a game is broken now, which is still valuable information, but it's also the bare minimum of what a review needs to do
 
G

Greatest Ever

Member
Velikost said:
Dunkey lost me when he included Giant Bomb's logo in his collage of review sites.







What is going on in this thread
Click to expand...
GTA V is a mediocre game that has an incredibly well designed open world that's wasted with shit mission design, God awful satire, and Rockstar's usual penchant for avoiding good gameplay.
 
M

Mezoly

Member
Velikost said:
Dunkey lost me when he included Giant Bomb's logo in his collage of review sites.


What is going on in this thread
Click to expand...

So he lost you when he put a group you know about but you where fine when he included others you don't follow?
He included multiple footage of IGN's Gamescoop a good and light hearted gaming podcast. so just because some doesn't watch it, it's not okay for him to take a joke about Sonic from Justin who never review games on IGN and try to make a point.

The 7/10 being good score or it deserved higher for Andromeda is shared by many fans of the series and who actually played the game and it's not controversial at all.
 
M

MrHoot

Member
I remember when Dunkey wasn't just yet another "gamer with HOT TAKES" shouting half baked arguments to pander to an audience (who's more and more gamergate centric, looking at the comments anyway)
 
Whompa02

Whompa02

Member
MrHoot said:
I remember when Dunkey wasn't just yet another "gamer with HOT TAKES" shouting half baked arguments to pander to an audience (who's more and more gamergate centric, looking at the comments anyway)
Click to expand...

Easiest way to discredit someone these days is to call their commentary a hot take and move on.

Also how is his audience gamer gate centric? Wtf?

I'm so confused by this.
 
L

lvl99 Pixel

Member
is his wife/gf on helium? that voice doesnt sound real

WrenchNinja said:
Hey man, if you want to go get your funnies from a homophobe, be my guest
Click to expand...

foul language in a poor attempt at being funny = homophobe?
I mean it wouldn't surprise me at this point but that seems like false equivalence
 
Kelegacy

Kelegacy

XBOX - RECORD ME LOVING DOWN MY WOMAN GOOD
Altairax15 said:
is his wife/gf on helium? that voice doesnt sound real
Click to expand...

It sounded like a child, so I thought that's who was telling him to stop saying that word. Which made it worse for me.

Still, youtubers/streamers who do nothing but swear and say awful things really bothers me. I used to be a young idiot once too, but watching people like Markiplier makes me mad. Maybe it's because I have kids now, but filling your streams with garbage language makes you look really stupid.
 
M

MrHoot

Member
Whompa02 said:
Easiest way to discredit someone these days is to call their commentary a hot take and move on.

Also how is his audience gamer gate centric? Wtf?

I'm so confused by this.
Click to expand...

Basically his refusal to call out JonTron when the guy had his racist outburst, constant pandering to the lowest common denominator and videos like these.

As far as constructive criticism, really what he says is what every average-gamer-who-fancies-himself-a-critique says all the fucking time without doing a video out of it.

"Critiques don't play the whole game" Yeah no shit. First off most of them have a shitload of stuff to play every week and usually don't have the luxury to invest themselves fully in each game the play. But even barring that, it's like the old saying after FF13 came out "Oh it gets good after 20 hours !".

Also painfully unaware that crits do get their games weeks before an actual release and no there's no "rush to review the game in one day".

The rest of the video is basically a mix of poorly constructed of "what -I- value in games (which by the way are more important guys, but i won't argue why cuz i'm a comedian after all) which basically transforms into a stealth brag in the end.

It's not to condemn dunkey really, nor is it to defend the game journos (I don't even read most of them). But it's so much a condensed version of every discord talk of disgruntled average gamer who thinks they "got" it because after all, they spent a lot of time playing video games. I've heard this kind of talk 30 times before from every gamer, young to old. It's the crown-prince of hot takes

EDIT: I will also give him fair points in saying that I do agree with him overall tho that independant channels like Sterling or ProJared offer usually a clearer "breakdown" of a game tied to a person that you can follow and gauge your opinion towards them on the long run.
 
J

Jangowuzhere

Banned
Blam said:
Wow what an expose. He's really just thrown his credibility out the window.
Click to expand...

AlexFlame116 said:
Uh...wow.
Click to expand...


:/

I feel like you must have your head buried in the sand to be shocked by this. You guys do know that he was banned from League of Legends for hateful trash talking? Him saying faggot is like the least surprising thing about him considering his history with constantly shit talking online

Many can still look past that and enjoy his content for what it is, but he has never been a youtuber saint.
 
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