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[sinnergy]

Netflix, Spotify

 

[THE DUCK]

I'm the opposite. If Horizon or GTA were reasonably priced I would buy them for sure, but I am confirmed 'wait for sale' on both. Ragnarok will be the same. I'm not paying $70, I'm just not. And I can afford it, I just won't do it. I would however subscribe to Sony's GamePass if it had them day one.

I'm in the same boat. Those games, while being awesome, aren't worth that kind of coin to me. A sony pass, if priced right, woukd offer an increased value at least for me, I'd likely sign up right away.

 

[onQ123]

The kids growing up right now don't care anything about owning a disc so whoever can get the games to them the fastest will collect the money.

 

[KingGhidorah]

Not going to last forever, either streaming will become more viable if performance improves, or Sony or ms will eventually launch a portable. There will be no more bubble.

Nintendo's bubble is very strong at the moment, it's multi layered

- handheld market
- Japanese market, they are competitive in other markets too and winning, but they are just absolutely dominating Japanese market, where there's many well known developers
- and most importantly, their IPs, they have multiple system-seller franchises

 

[MScarpa]

Because a lot of gamers don't like subscriptions, GaaS and microtransactions and would prefer if the industry stayed more traditional. I would vastly prefer is Sony remained traditional and I don't think they need to give away their incredible, high budget first party single player IP in some cheap garage sale just because other companies are. Why are people playing follow the leader with the console that has worst hardware and first party software sales. Mind boggling.

But why does it bother YOU ? You don't have Gamepass, you don't own an Xbox so how does this effect you?

 

[MScarpa]

Micro transactions and other sleazy predatory shit.

For some reason console gamer's have become excited about this trash that we previously ridiculed now that their favourite gaming company is implementing it as their go to strategy.

Sounds like maybe you should stop playing video games since you don't like what it's become.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

It's all about accessibility. Gamepass likely wouldn't exist without Microsoft's long-term streaming plan. You just don't see it yet because streaming is still in its early stages. This is a ten year plan.

 

[Banjo64]

the console that has worst hardware and first party software sales.

God, some of you guys are so relentless to the point where it’s just boring now.

 

[Malcolm9]

To be fair in the case of Gamepass you still have the option to buy.

 

[DenchDeckard]

You only have to look at how the music industry went, how the film industry and tv industry followed. Next will be gaming.

the number one fact that everyone seems to forget, if you still want to buy your games you will be able to. Just buy them if that’s what you want to do, people call me crazy because I still buy 4k Blu rays. I buy the games I really really love or loved and game pass allows me to try a lot of games that I potentially wouldn’t, and not feel bad if I don’t like them too much. If I love them I buy the games, Just like my 4k movies.

 

[yurinka]

GigaBowser Looking at the gaming market numbers nothing seems to indicate that game subscriptions are the future, but instead will be a secondary revenue source, bigger than it is now but still a small portion of the market.

The evidence says that F2P games generate over half of gaming revenue, also has the majority of player and that it's also growing faster than the revenue from paid games. Game subscriptions are a tiny part of the gaming revenue instead but have some growth.

Inside game subs, I think it's pretty clear that to spend several dozens of Billions in acquisitions and to put in the game sub day one all your AAA games plus 3rd party ones is a financial suicide strategy for both the platform holder and the game publishers so I think it's something temporal until MS thinks they grew enough their catalog and userbase or until they spent whatever budget they have for that.

Even if it's less shiny and generates less/slower growth I think the strategy of including in the game subs mostly old games that already generated all the game sales they could makes more sense because it's more profitable for both the platform holder and game publishers.

I think subscriptions, like VR, will grow but will continue being something secondary, a small part of the game revenue, which will mostly continue coming from add-on revenue (dlc/IAP/season passes) and specially from F2P games. I think we'll still far from it, but I think that which will replace F2P as main revenue source will be the play to earn games once that market matures and starts to grow. Because in the same way that people prefers to play for free than to play paying, people will also prefer to earn money for playing than to play for free and even more than to pay for a subscription.

 

[Banjo64]

Sony and Nintendo games easily sell 10+ million copies. Nothing you say will change that fact. You’re wrong, people don’t necessarily get the “more bang for your buck” option. Sorry dude, give up.

The attempt to group Sony in with Nintendo’s game sales by Sony fanboys has to be one of the saddest things about GAF. They’re not even in the same league.

 

[Majukun]

I just have a simple question.

How do the developers make money off of their games being played on a service like this, than on unit sales?

my guess is that microsoft gives an estimate of how many people will actually download the game if available and offers a lump sum to the devs based on that.
of course much like with everything, the higher the amount of supposed downloads, the lower the price per copy is.
Or they might actually look at the data afterward and pay the devs per download.

this is really appealing to

a)oldish games that exhausted their initial sale power and would now see a big increase only if the games goes on sale or something

b)devs that are not really that confident that the game will be a huge success and just want to be sure to get back on the investment and make some sure profit with it instead of challenging the waves of the market. From this point of view the fact that you can still sell your game through traditional means also helps making the decision more straightforward, you put a pillow behind you with gamepass and whataever you sell out of it (or inside of it since you can still buy games on gamepass, although i doubt many do) is pure profit.

 

[IDKFA]

Because it offers the best value for consumers.

Here is the choice:

Option A: buy a single game for £70

Option B: play the same game, but got a fraction of the cost and you get to play hundreds of other games for the same price.

You do the maths OP and tell me why subscription services are the future of gaming.

 

[Zeroing]

Of course it’s not sustainable, look how Netflix raised the subs, how HBO is barely surviving… look how the music industry is producing forgettable songs…

All the buzz about that service was somehow created artificially - tons of articles with the same words “added value”, “free” “game changer” - thus getting as much gamers to the service. Get ahead of the competition by making pressure!

let’s be realistic, yeah it’s cheap but not for long… and one can assume the quality of the games will drop I mean look at Ubisoft and EA… full retail games that are sequel after sequel barely any innovation.

The problem is not gamepass, -

physical copies, digital and renting services can co- exist just fine.

The problem is a vocal minority of us gamers wanting/choosing services as the future for all of us!!

All of us gamers should pause and look at the past! Online behind a paywall was championed as way to lead to better online gaming and it was not! Now all the big 3 does it.

To end my thoughts, everyone has different tastes and the more options for us gamers, the better… standardizing how gaming is consumed is bad.

 

[clintar]

The proof is in

 

[TrebleShot]

This isn’t even the endgame, eventually you won’t be able to download your games they will all be streamed.

As someone mentioned cost of entry is a huge barrier and the likes of Netflix, prime , Apple Music and Spotify have shown how successful streaming platforms can be.

Forget about profits, streaming platforms and subs operate at a loss in the most part for the initial 5-10 years then slowly start making money and when your bank rolled by one of the richest corporations in history you can afford that hit.

May as well get used to it because having access to a couple of million people on high end gaming hardware is nothing when you can provide access to every person on the planet with a smart device via streaming.

Oh and the connections are absolutely almost there for it on a mass scale.

 

[ZywyPL]

Because that's what the publishers want and will push hard. It gives them total control and profits, as there's no second hand market, no stores fees, no nothing, every single cent goes directly into their pocket, and it does that on a monthly basis no matter how many people play the game.

 

[Stare-Bear]

I think a good example of how GaaS affects games and their perceived value is Halo Infinite. Halo used to be an event, hype for months after release. Now it’s barely talked about and it’s not being played as much as other shooters.

 

[MistBreeze]

I think a good example of how GaaS affects games and their perceived value is Halo Infinite. Halo used to be an event, hype for months after release. Now it’s barely talked about and it’s not being played as much as other shooters.

Man remember Halo 3 launch

It was a festival

Even Bill Gates said Sony will launch ps3 and walk into halo 3

I miss these days when AAA games were hype

 

[Loope]

Hard disagree. The former group is way more vocal and annoying.

Hard disagree, the people always concerned about GP profit and MS financials are way more annoying. Just buy Sony and Nintendo and those that want to go with MS, they go with MS, doesn't matter if you buy a console or play on PC.

 

[Chukhopops]

Of course it’s not sustainable, look how Netflix raised the subs, how HBO is barely surviving… look how the music industry is producing forgettable songs…

All the buzz about that service was somehow created artificially - tons of articles with the same words “added value”, “free” “game changer” - thus getting as much gamers to the service. Get ahead of the competition by making pressure!

let’s be realistic, yeah it’s cheap but not for long… and one can assume the quality of the games will drop I mean look at Ubisoft and EA… full retail games that are sequel after sequel barely any innovation.

The problem is not gamepass, -

physical copies, digital and renting services can co- exist just fine.

The problem is a vocal minority of us gamers wanting/choosing services as the future for all of us!!

All of us gamers should pause and look at the past! Online behind a paywall was championed as way to lead to better online gaming and it was not! Now all the big 3 does it.

To end my thoughts, everyone has different tastes and the more options for us gamers, the better… standardizing how gaming is consumed is bad.

I love GP for plenty of reasons but I don’t care that people keep buying games if they want to, I don’t see it as an either/or situation.

I don’t see a lot of people asking for games to stop being sold directly, that’s fearmongering to me. And nothing indicates that you will be forced to use a subscription to play games in the future, HBO exists for years now and you can still buy their production in Blu-Ray if you want to.

All of this is just tired arguments:
- « it will decrease the quality of games », in reality MS games have never rated so highly;
- « you will be forced to use it », still nothing is exclusive to GP after four years;
- « the price will increase », again it still hasn’t happened meanwhile buying games has become more expensive with next gen.

It’s just the concern bingo again and again. And to say it again: nobody is bothered if you keep buying games and don’t want to use a sub.

 

[Shmunter]

Because that's what the publishers want and will push hard. It gives them total control and profits, as there's no second hand market, no stores fees, no nothing, every single cent goes directly into their pocket, and it does that on a monthly basis no matter how many people play the game.

I'm not so sure the shelf fillers get an equal share to the big games that take up the majority of the play time. Unless the suggestion is each is licensed to MS for an agreed fee for a period of time no matter what, each deal & pay amount different - even then I imagine the small players getting squeezed hard by a heavyweight corp.

 

[Zeroing]

I love GP for plenty of reasons but I don’t care that people keep buying games if they want to, I don’t see it as an either/or situation.

I don’t see a lot of people asking for games to stop being sold directly, that’s fearmongering to me. And nothing indicates that you will be forced to use a subscription to play games in the future, HBO exists for years now and you can still buy their production in Blu-Ray if you want to.

All of this is just tired arguments:
- « it will decrease the quality of games », in reality MS games have never rated so highly;
- « you will be forced to use it », still nothing is exclusive to GP after four years;
- « the price will increase », again it still hasn’t happened meanwhile buying games has become more expensive with next gen.

It’s just the concern bingo again and again. And to say it again: nobody is bothered if you keep buying games and don’t want to use a sub.

I’ve seen this defensive “concerned” attack used many times over the years… from all be fans of the big 3…. So I’m used to it.

Still the gaming industry keeps getting worse. But yeah nothing to be “concerned” about!

Oh well…

 

[The_Mike]

What I've learned by Gaf is that the users often are afraid of changes.

Many of the users in here are still afraid to download digital games. Many of the users are afraid of game pass because it devalue games.

Did hbo, Netflix, and Disney plus devalue movies and TV series. Did Spotify devalue music?

Gaf users are very vocal about VR, probably because Sony is heavily invested in it.
At the same time, if you just say you enjoy game pass here, you get slammed by being called a loser, idiot etc.

But why do people outright hate game pass? It is optional, you dot have to sub.

It costs 12 bucks a month in my country, and in the trial period I already completed 3 games.
3 games, that costs 60 usd each. I completed for 120 usd content for 12 usd.

Besides that, before games roll out there's 20 percent off any game pass purchase, so you can buy it if you wanna keep it.

I also don't get why haters are saying that the prices will go up. I mean, sure, sometimes there's price hikes on stuff, but I don't really get why game pass should end up being more expensive?

Is it because we believe in Microsoft is evil so of course they will increase the price when they got you by the balls.

It won't surprise me that there will be a vocal majority that's gonna praise Spartakus to the skies when Sony releases it, and many of those are the ones hating on game pass

 

[Chukhopops]

I’ve seen this defensive “concerned” attack used many times over the years… from all be fans of the big 3…. So I’m used to it.

Still the gaming industry keeps getting worse. But yeah nothing to be “concerned” about!

Oh well…

I don’t see things getting worse personally, but even if you do how is it connected to GP? The push for MTX is anterior to GP and also happened industry-wide.

There’s nothing right now that validates any of the perceived issues about GP: not the quality of the games, not the price, not the availability of games outside of it.

 

[kingfey]

my guess is that microsoft gives an estimate of how many people will actually download the game if available and offers a lump sum to the devs based on that.
of course much like with everything, the higher the amount of supposed downloads, the lower the price per copy is.
Or they might actually look at the data afterward and pay the devs per download.

this is really appealing to

a)oldish games that exhausted their initial sale power and would now see a big increase only if the games goes on sale or something

b)devs that are not really that confident that the game will be a huge success and just want to be sure to get back on the investment and make some sure profit with it instead of challenging the waves of the market. From this point of view the fact that you can still sell your game through traditional means also helps making the decision more straightforward, you put a pillow behind you with gamepass and whataever you sell out of it (or inside of it since you can still buy games on gamepass, although i doubt many do) is pure profit.

People think those copies cost 60$. At most it's $1-$2 per copy at big chunk for MS. For the AAA, at max is $10 for 10m copies. The higher the copies request, the cheaper the prices becomes.

 

[kingfey]

Because that's what the publishers want and will push hard. It gives them total control and profits, as there's no second hand market, no stores fees, no nothing, every single cent goes directly into their pocket, and it does that on a monthly basis no matter how many people play the game.

Do you understand how disastrous that is for developer's, and MS?

They still need to sell games. Subscription alone isn't enough for profit.

Its all in digital sales, which they can maximize their sales, on top of Subscription service.

MS could have canceled xbox live gold to make profits from gamepass. But they didnt.

Unless people stop buying games, I dont see that possibility.

 

[Zeroing]

I don’t see things getting worse personally, but even if you do how is it connected to GP? The push for MTX is anterior to GP and also happened industry-wide.

There’s nothing right now that validates any of the perceived issues about GP: not the quality of the games, not the price, not the availability of games outside of it.

Like I said before the problem is not gamepass, the problem is people being very vocal, wanting only that type of services and telling everyone to shut up because that is the future. you can re read what I wrote on my first post here!

like I said before as well, same thing happened with online behind a paywall.

 

[Bulletbrain]

In a time where gaming is becoming more and more expensive, a service that is offering real value is personally a god send. I get to play a lot more games while spending a lot less money. One can argue about the quality of games but to me the quality/value ratio has so far been exceptional.

While I don't know if subscription gaming will be the future, I am cheering it on for simply being a great value option. If it stops giving me good value, I'll change my mind.

 

[Haggard]

In a time where gaming is becoming more and more expensive

what?
Gaming is the cheapest it`s ever been, even without gamepass.
Prices in the gaming industry have basically ignored inflation for 20 years and the fight for marketshare has become so fierce that publishers thow games around for next to nothing all the time.
The whole hobby "gaming" is ridiculously cheap (aside from GPU prices in the PC realm currently)

 

[IDappa]

Day 1 releases? Sony's first party games are high budget single player games and don't lend themselves to predatory GaaS oriented type micro transaction type subscription services and I'd like it to stay that way.

The way you are carrying yourself in the first few posts make you seem like a console warrior.. probably not wrong.

 

[Belthazar]

I think it's part of the future, but so will be premium releases. I mean, on movies there are the blockbusters that can to hundreds of million at the box office and then there's Netflix. It's the same for games industry, there's the games that can do 20+ million copies sold and then there's whatever Microsoft releases on game pass. And even with the recent acquisitions... Netflix too can pay Meryl Streep to do a movie, but it won't become the next Devil Wears Prada

 

[Bulletbrain]

what?
Gaming is the cheapest it`s ever been, even without gamepass.
Prices in the gaming industry have basically ignored inflation for 20 years and the fight for marketshare has become so fierce that publishers thow games around for next to nothing all the time.
The whole hobby "gaming" is ridiculously cheap (aside from GPU prices in the PC realm currently)

Lol I'm from a developing country. Our exchange rate has collapsed in the last few years. General inflation is shooting up. Wages are stagnant. Disposable income is tight. So yes, maybe in USD terms the prices of games have not gone up, but there are a lot more factors at play when discussing how expensive gaming is for people like us.

 

[draliko]

The only thing i know is when gaf says it's bad for the industry it's always the opposite... so I'm quite confident everything will turn out fine as always, in the meantime i love my gp and gaming in general...

 

[Leyasu]

Day 1 releases? Sony's first party games are high budget single player games and don't lend themselves to predatory GaaS oriented type micro transaction type subscription services and I'd like it to stay that way.

This is wrong. Single player games have a place on a subscription service. It is not the type of content it is the amount of content. That is why Sony are bulking up.

Also, think of gamepass as a giant crowdfunding. They use the revenue to pay the running costs of their studios and for 3rd party content.

 

[Chukhopops]

Like I said before the problem is not gamepass, the problem is people being very vocal, wanting only that type of services and telling everyone to shut up because that is the future. you can re read what I wrote on my first post here!

like I said before as well, same thing happened with online behind a paywall.

Can’t say I’ve seen a lot of posts saying it’s the only possible future but if that happens I agree that it’s pointless, both models will exist in the future at least as long as Nintendo exists.

Day 1 releases? Sony's first party games are high budget single player games and don't lend themselves to predatory GaaS oriented type micro transaction type subscription services and I'd like it to stay that way.

I don’t think Sony will ever prevent you from paying 70 usd / 79 eur to play their games if that’s what you want.

 

[Majukun]

Like I said before the problem is not gamepass, the problem is people being very vocal, wanting only that type of services and telling everyone to shut up because that is the future. you can re read what I wrote on my first post here!

like I said before as well, same thing happened with online behind a paywall.

who exactly is saying that only subscription based systems should exist exactly?

haven't seen the entirety of the internet, but usually it's more about people doubting the sustainability of the system and questioning its benefits...never saw a single example of people saying that only subscription system should exist...and i mean, that didn't happen with music and movies, why would that happen with videogames

 

[Haggard]

Lol I'm from a developing country. Our exchange rate has collapsed in the last few years. General inflation is shooting up. Wages are stagnant. Disposable income is tight. So yes, maybe in USD terms the prices of games have not gone up, but there are a lot more factors at play when discussing how expensive gaming is for people like us.

I doubt that economical situation is only affecting gaming and I bet it`s probably still cheap compared to other hobbies, but I get what you mean, no offense intended.

 

[anthony2690]

Day 1 releases? Sony's first party games are high budget single player games and don't lend themselves to predatory GaaS oriented type micro transaction type subscription services and I'd like it to stay that way.

Haven't they got 10 GAAS titles in the works for release before 2026 though?

 

[Zeroing]

who exactly is saying that only subscription based systems should exist exactly?

haven't seen the entirety of the internet, but usually it's more about people doubting the sustainability of the system and questioning its benefits...never saw a single example of people saying that only subscription system should exist...and i mean, that didn't happen with music and movies, why would that happen with videogames

You missed the gamepass mega thread!? Or the multiple threads about gamepass on the past 2 years?!

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Of course it’s not sustainable

CEO of Microsoft Gaming said the opposite. But I'd rather trust your word

 

[Bulletbrain]

A

I doubt that economical situation is only affecting gaming and I bet it`s probably still cheap compared to other hobbies, but I get what you mean, no offense intended.

Actually no. In the US the cost of a movie ticket will be what, 5x less expensive than a standard AAA console game? But over here a AAA game could cost more 10x the price of a movie ticket. Even before the chip shortages, I would have to pay a 30% premium for a GPU or a console. Now it's even worse obviously.

 

[Zeroing]

CEO of Microsoft Gaming said the opposite. But I'd rather trust your word

So…he didn’t shown numbers, not the first time he lied - tomb raider exclusivity but ok.

enjoy your fantasy world with unicorns and rainbows.
I’m going and let you guys enjoy

 

[Bernd Lauert]

So…he didn’t shown numbers, not the first time he lied - tomb raider exclusivity but ok.

enjoy your fantasy world with unicorns and rainbows.
I’m going and let you guys enjoy

We have numbers from 2019, there Xbox software and services made a $2.2b profit. Xbox only grew since then.

 

[Inviusx]

Don't get me wrong. Renting games on the cheap is great (even considering picking up a Series X), even though I prefer a Steam like service, but I keep hearing all this buzz about Gamepass like MS sets the trends even though they sell the least consoles and have since 2017 since Gamepass started.

I hear buzz about revenue, but what about profits?

Why is Nintendo selling the most hardware and low budget games for full price making way more profit than anyone if giving your games away and devaluing your IP's is such a great idea?

Is Microsoft's 75 billion dollar purchase of Activison not proof enough?

 

[Prison Mike]

Because a lot of gamers don't like subscriptions, GaaS and microtransactions and would prefer if the industry stayed more traditional. I would vastly prefer is Sony remained traditional and I don't think they need to give away their incredible, high budget first party single player IP in some cheap garage sale just because other companies are. Why are people playing follow the leader with the console that has worst hardware and first party software sales. Mind boggling.

 

[RevGaming]

Keep cheerleading this all you want. It's going to take away the quality of the industry.

These subscripted fees are

1 going to become more expensive

2 game quality is going to drop even further

3 GaaS and micro transactions will become even more of a thing.

Let's see which one of us is right when the dust settles.

Looking at gears 5 and halo infinite and how many mtx both have, I think you're pretty much already right. It will only get worse with 30+ studios to maintain plus pay third party games (this costs more than putting first party games if we go by the netflix reports) with their games with more expensive budgets. They'll sell single player games episodic or be super short or not look as good.

These people cheerleading $15 prices, but hate how AAA games are filled with MTX and how everyone is lazy and don't innovate, keep releasing broken games etc.

Watch people get used to not paying full retail price and the quality drop even harder than EA games. I hope Sony doesn't try to become another loss leader.

A 70 rated game today would be a 90 in 2030. If the third entry of Spider-man, Ghost, Gow and Horizon come day 1 on Spartacus and aren't as good as their previous entry, I'll know what happened.

 

[RevGaming]

Umm take a look at music and movies/tv shows... all the streaming music and video services. i really dont know a single person who buys music/videos anymore.

Because who plays a 2 hour movie or a 30 minute album over and over again like a video game?

I'm tired of these it will work because it worked for movies (not really, Netflix is losing money). Gamepass will get less subs if Nintendo, Steam and Sony join and nobody will make enough money and games will get worse because of it. Wake up!!

 

[RoboFu]

Netflix, Hulu, hbomax, Disney+ .. etc etc