Support NeoGAF

[IbizaPocholo]

Xbox Series X Poises to Avoid Current Gen Marketing Mistakes

Xbox Marketing star Jerret West rejoins Microsoft to help the Xbox Series X team ahead of the next gen hardware launch to combat PS5.

www.dualshockers.com

Xbox Marketing star Jerret West rejoins Microsoft to help the Xbox Series X team ahead of the next gen hardware launch to combat PS5.

The news comes from LinkedIn, where a December listing shows Jerret West has joined as the Chief Marketing Officer over at Xbox — coming from a seven-year stint as the Head of Marketing at Netflix. Even better, West is no gaming or Xbox novice — he previously oversaw some of the largest products and highest highs of Xbox, with an eight-year tenure from 2003 to 2011. In other words, he was heading the marketing teams that helped the Xbox 360 dominate the console market.

 

[Imtjnotu]

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Basically a guy who was a large part of and responsible for the Xbox 360's marketing.

 

[Sw0pDiller]

Ps5 still gonna dominate them. More games, better name and 100mil passionate and satisfied PS4 owners gives them the edge.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Ps5 still gonna dominate them. More games, better name and 100mil passionate and satisfied PS4 owners gives them the edge.

 

[Topfuel]

Ps5 still gonna dominate them. More games, better name and 100mil passionate and satisfied PS4 owners gives them the edge.

What better games? What better name? What about PC gamers?

 

[PropellerEar]

What better games? What better name? What about PC gamers?

Yes you know which games. All those exclusive GOTYs.
PlayStation/PS5.
They can have Kojimbo games.

On topic PS marketing is light-years better now than it was at Wii>PS3>360 era. So this guy won't have as easy job as he had then.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Calling it Series X is already a marketing mistake....

 

[magnumpy]

Nintendo is just sitting back laughing at all these supposed Xbox and PlayStation pretenders to their rightful earned throne hallowed be thy name

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Calling it Series X is already a marketing mistake....

Is it though? They've announced it early, and I haven't seen a single person not using it correctly

 

[odhiex]

Calling it Series X is already a marketing mistake....

I still don't know whether it is a marketing mistake, but sure someone will be confused by it... lol

 

[Ar¢tos]

Is it though? They've announced it early, and I haven't seen a single person not using it correctly

eyeroll.gif
Which one sounds more like a transition to something brand new?
Xbox One X -> Xbox Series X
or
Xbox One X -> Xbox Infinite / Xbox Nitro / Xbox "brand new name that is not another short word followed by X like the previous one"?

 

[Deleted member 775630]

eyeroll.gif
Which one sounds more like a transition to something brand new?
Xbox One X -> Xbox Series X
or
Xbox One X -> Xbox Infinite / Xbox Nitro / Xbox "brand new name that is not another short word followed by X like the previous one"?

I just think naming a successor isn't really that important, if you just name it something else. Like I said, no one has a problem with the name. Everyone clearly uses XSX or Xbox Series X to name the next-gen xbox console. So where is the issue exactly?

 

[CeeJay]

eyeroll.gif
Which one sounds more like a transition to something brand new?
Xbox One X -> Xbox Series X
or
Xbox One X -> Xbox Infinite / Xbox Nitro / Xbox "brand new name that is not another short word followed by X like the previous one"?

That's the point, it's not supposed to sound like something completely different. It's supposed to be a continuation of the current ecosystem, all your current content and future purchases (for a while) will work on current Xbox One and also Series X with a seamless migration from one to the other.

 

[Virex]

They should have called it the "Serious X". Showing that it will be serious about power and games

 

[Aidah]

He was heading the marketing team when Xbox 360 dominated the console market. A time that never existed.

 

[Spaceman292]

I just think naming a successor isn't really that important, if you just name it something else. Like I said, no one has a problem with the name. Everyone clearly uses XSX or Xbox Series X to name the next-gen xbox console. So where is the issue exactly?

What reality are you living in bro?

 

[Deleted member 775630]

What reality are you living in bro?

Sorry, I should've said "Everyone here". But we'll see how many people have issues with the name once at release, and Microsoft just had 2 months of commercials about the Xbox Series X everywhere.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Ps5 still gonna dominate them. More games, better name and 100mil passionate and satisfied PS4 owners gives them the edge.

First console warrior to try derailing a thread.

 

[Birdo]

helped the Xbox 360 dominate the console market.

Which was outsold by both the PS3 and Wii.......

 

[nemiroff]

First console warrior to try derailing a thread.

Yeah.. And especially for me being an older gamer is sometimes frustrating when those posts happen because it's cringe to the max, ticks all the stereotypes of videogaming, and thus makes me feel I don't belong here.

Anyway, yeah we noticed MS failed marketing last gen, and good for them they seem aware of it.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Yeah.. And especially for me being an older gamer is sometimes frustrating when those posts happen because it's cringe to the max, ticks all the stereotypes of videogaming, and thus makes me feel I don't belong here.

Anyway, yeah we noticed MS failed marketing last gen, and good for them they seem aware of it.

Yup. Almost every thread has been derailed since the "leaks". Special Olympics at its finest.

OT: Yea they fucked up big, and tbh im glad every time it gets thrown in their face by outlets. It should help keep them humble this time around and focus on games not kinect, tv, or any other bullshit.

 

[The_Mike]

Ps5 still gonna dominate them. More games, better name and 100mil passionate and satisfied PS4 owners gives them the edge.

It is this thinking, which Sony also seems to have, that can be the downfall for Sony. Or at least some, the loyalists will always be there, but platform jumpers won't remain loyal forever.

 

[B_Boss]

Calling it Series X is already a marketing mistake....

Sony could really get on the console war competitive train by using a "brand X" theme lol.

 

[TLZ]

This is actually good and crucial. Good pick.

 

[Ascend]

Ps5 still gonna dominate them. More games, better name and 100mil passionate and satisfied PS4 owners gives them the edge.

Yeah... Of course you know this in advance

Calling it Series X is already a marketing mistake....

Unless of course, the Series X is not a specific console, but literally a series of multiple consoles, like Xbox One S, Xbox One X, and maybe, Xbox 2 X or whatever.

As of now, I have not seen people make a huge deal of the console name. If anything, the Nintendo Wii and Wii U got a much larger backlash for their name that the Xbox Series X.

It's quite obvious what the two biggest marketing blunders were... Pushing Kinect, and pushing always online as a requirement. Those are the two main things that killed the Xbox One launch. If it wasn't for that, it probably would have done a lot better.

 

[quickwhips]

Yes you know which games. All those exclusive GOTYs.
PlayStation/PS5.
They can have Kojimbo games.

On topic PS marketing is light-years better now than it was at Wii>PS3>360 era. So this guy won't have as easy job as he had then.

What are you talking about? The ps2 dominated and the 360 had rrod and still sold well.

 

[DanielsM]

It was bad business strategy that did them in, the horrible marketing is just the norm for MS company wide. Both are continuing in a wrong direction for gaming. The coming years will be a disaster, imo, and the cloud boy will eventually see the bullshit Phil sold him and he will pull forward his great axe.

It's quite obvious what the two biggest marketing blunders were... Pushing Kinect, and pushing always online as a requirement. Those are the two main things that killed the Xbox One launch. If it wasn't for that, it probably would have done a lot better.

Those weren't marketing blunders those are business strategy blunders.

- no games... actually no games for years as they were moving most of their internal studios to Kinect games
- releasing at the same time as PS4 this time
- always online
- kinect v2 add on, by that time everyone figured out it was bullshit
- more expensive machine but weaker
- they were going to make it to so that you couldn't even let someone borrow a game or physically rent games
- kinect privacy issues

Now they are making all new business strategy mistakes.

Yes, they have horrible marketing but that has been true of MS for decades, the horrible business strategy with gaming especially with Xbox as a Hardware started somewhere around 2008-2009 and continues to this day. Good marketing doesn't really help them but they can't even do good marketing.... they keep wheeling bullshit Phil out there to say stupid shit.

 

[MoreJRPG]

Ps5 still gonna dominate them. More games, better name and 100mil passionate and satisfied PS4 owners gives them the edge.

Like Godfall?

 

[MoreJRPG]

Which was outsold by both the PS3 and Wii.......

You can sell a million consoles in Timbuktu, doesn’t matter in the grand scheme when they don’t have the disposable income to buy the services and software which is what makes these companies the money. Xbox sells incredibly well in high GPD countries save for Japan which is why the 360 was more profitable than both PS3 and Wii last gen per NPD.

 

[DanielsM]

You can sell a million consoles in Timbuktu, doesn’t matter in the grand scheme when they don’t have the disposable income to buy the services and software which is what makes these companies the money. Xbox sells incredibly well in high GPD countries save for Japan which is why the 360 was more profitable than both PS3 and Wii last gen per NPD.

There is no evidence that Xbox made a profit during the Xbox 360 era, most of the evidence actually point to it being significant money losers - although Microsoft kept trying to hide the sausage as best they could. Now they won't even give people the ingredients for the sausage making process i.e. huge losses being hidden. To be honest Xbox is now spread out over many parts of the Microsoft business wherein before they were located in a particular divisional unit. They can generate revenue estimates but probably not loss/profit statements.

Sony does generally provide more detail numbers as far as their gaming (at least since I've been looking at it), and usually provide a breakdown of profit/loss on gaming a sector. The Wii was a huge money maker for Nintendo.

Bro, you smoking some serious shit, you need to send me some.

 

[Aion002]

You can sell a million consoles in Timbuktu, doesn’t matter in the grand scheme when they don’t have the disposable income to buy the services and software which is what makes these companies the money. Xbox sells incredibly well in high GPD countries save for Japan which is why the 360 was more profitable than both PS3 and Wii last gen per NPD.

You do know that the world is kinda big, right? And that winning on US in console sales is not enough for MS... That's why they are trying to change so much....

The 10 Most Successful Video Game Publishers Of The Decade, Ranked By Revenue

We all know the big name game publishers. Here are the most successful of the last decade.

gamerant.com

This decade alone, were Wii U failed hard, talking only about publishers, Nintendo is still ahead of MS... Now about the rest of the world on consoles sales? Well, let's not get in to that, cause even MS doesn't want to get into it...

 

[Kdad]

That's the point, it's not supposed to sound like something completely different. It's supposed to be a continuation of the current ecosystem, all your current content and future purchases (for a while) will work on current Xbox One and also Series X with a seamless migration from one to the other.

People that had zero interest in the current content and ecosystem are not going to give it a second look now when the name is so similar they think nothing has changed...that's the point. If you want to recaputure your 360 mojo, you might want to distance yourself (by name not function) from the current debacle.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

"Marketing mistakes".

This is what Nintendo says when a favored product flops in the market and they're unwilling to admit it was a bad egg.

Miyamoto:​

That was also true within Nintendo. Our sales department treated Virtual Boy as an extension of our licensing business. In other words, we sold it as something like the Famicom system.​

​

Itoi:​

I see.​

​

Miyamoto:​

And when you do that, selling 100,000 is just a start. But if you think of it as just a fun toy, it’s a big success if you break just 50,000. If sales generated some buzz, and crossed 100,000, then 200,000, then 500,000 - quite a good pattern. Viewed like that, Virtual Boy was, I think, quite an appealing toy. To people who viewed it like that, I think that is still an appealing product. But if you place it front and centre and think about the licensing business…​

​

Iwata:​

In other words, if you think of it as a gaming platform.​

​

Miyamoto:​

Right. When you think of it as a gaming platform, it becomes a failure.​

​

Itoi:​

There was no way for Nintendo to escape it. Everyone assumes that when Nintendo puts out a machine, it must be a full-blown gaming platform.​

​

Miyamoto:​

Yeah. It can’t be helped. Which is exactly why at the time I thought it was extremely important to portray it properly, including advertisements and sorts to the effect that it’s not a full-scale platform.​

​

Iwata:​

But you weren’t a main player on that device, so you couldn’t say anything.​

​

Miyamoto:​

I didn’t have the authority.​

Imagine that, the gall of a customer thinking the Virtua Boy is a gaming platform. Indeed, the Xbox One was just an unfortunate chain of "marketing mistakes".

 

[DanielsM]

People that had zero interest in the current content and ecosystem are not going to give it a second look now when the name is so similar they think nothing has changed...that's the point. If you want to recaputure your 360 mojo, you might want to distance yourself (by name not function) from the current debacle.

The bigger issues is the whole "services" model which Phil keeps talking about (but not rolling out to other platforms) really doesn't work in the context of gaming for Microsoft versus something like business/office/cloud services work on enterprise/business side of the house. Satya in a few years figure out why the services numbers actually go down, and total gaming revenue continues to shrink.

I agree with you on the name, makes very little sense to me but to me that is the least of the issues.... marketing really isn't the problem - although they haven't helped... business strategy is.. huge problem that is only going to get worse, imo.

 

[Handy Fake]

Man poised to avoid stepping on rake again.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

You do know that the world is kinda big, right? And that winning on US in console sales is not enough for MS... That's why they are trying to change so much....

The 10 Most Successful Video Game Publishers Of The Decade, Ranked By Revenue

We all know the big name game publishers. Here are the most successful of the last decade.

gamerant.com

This decade alone, were Wii U failed hard, talking only about publishers, Nintendo is still ahead of MS... Now about the rest of the world on consoles sales? Well, let's not get in to that, cause even MS doesn't want to get into it...

Knowing how much more consoles Sony sold compared to Microsoft I would say Microsoft is actually killing it based on that list. Which is probably why they are pushing so hard for services since that's clearly where the money's at, and why Sony starts to follow.

 

[DanielsM]

Knowing how much more consoles Sony sold compared to Microsoft I would say Microsoft is actually killing it based on that list. Which is probably why they are pushing so hard for services since that's clearly where the money's at, and why Sony starts to follow.

Hm. Services is what companies want as its re-occurring revenue but Microsoft didn't invent it. They are pushing it because its reoccurring revenue, the problem is there really is only so much money and most people don't need services for gaming, generally speaking. Where the console manufacturers have made service revenue is just the online access i.e. Xbox Live Gold, PS Plus, etc. Not sure there is any other huge service revenue makers.... more like wishful thinking.

Revenue isn't the only figure you should be looking at, how much does it cost to generate that revenue? My guess for gaming at Microsoft more than the revenue i.e. losses. Of course companies want services, as a successful service model generally can have greater margin when successful, but just because you roll out services doesn't mean it will be successful see Groove Music (aka Xbox Music, aka Zune Music).

Exactly where is Microsoft deploying all these "services"? Yeah, they don't really exist.

Phil sold Satya a big pile of bullshit.

 

[Aion002]

Knowing how much more consoles Sony sold compared to Microsoft I would say Microsoft is actually killing it based on that list. Which is probably why they are pushing so hard for services since that's clearly where the money's at, and why Sony starts to follow.

That's a point of view.... another one would be that, even after a successful gen, she still ended up in third place and lost in sales, profit, brand appeal, spent a ton on marketing/services and still ended up proffiting less than the other two in the following gen, so she's having to rearrange their approach....

 

[Ascend]

Those weren't marketing blunders those are business strategy blunders.

1) no games... actually no games for years as they were moving most of their internal studios to Kinect games
2) releasing at the same time as PS4 this time
3) always online
4) kinect v2 add on, by that time everyone figured out it was bullshit
5) more expensive machine but weaker
6) they were going to make it to so that you couldn't even let someone borrow a game or physically rent games
7) kinect privacy issues

Now they are making all new business strategy mistakes.

Yes, they have horrible marketing but that has been true of MS for decades, the horrible business strategy with gaming especially with Xbox as a Hardware started somewhere around 2008-2009 and continues to this day. Good marketing doesn't really help them but they can't even do good marketing.... they keep wheeling bullshit Phil out there to say stupid shit.

mar·ket·ing
/ˈmärkədiNG/
noun

1. the action or business of promoting and selling products or services, including market research and advertising.

You can't simply classify it as a business strategy blunder and pretend the marketing was fine. Marketing is a direct part of business. Technically, you can have a mediocre product, and if marketed well enough, it can become a success. Look at the Wii. Additionally, you can support something but not market it. I mean, the Xbox can play Blu-Ray movies. Imagine if all the Xbox marketing focused on that. That is a bad marketing decision and not necessarily a bad business decision to put in the blu-ray player.

1) Considering the majority of sold games and most popular games are multiplatform, that really is a non-issue. Look at the X360. It became a success because of timed exclusive popular multiplatform titles. Not exclusives. The marketing of Kinect over everything else was the mistake, not the lack of exclusives.

2) The release at the same time as the PS4 wasn't really an issue. It was the always online requirement. Do you really think that releasing at the same time as PS4 is worse than the whole RROD problem the X360 faced? The RROD didn't stop the X360 from outselling the PS3. There was no worse accidental marketing for the X360 than the RROD.

3) Yeah. And they tried marketing it as some sort of futuristic innovative feature. They could have kept quiet about it. Obviously the backlash would have been bigger and people only found out after they bought it, but it most likely would have moved more consoles at launch.

4) Kinect was an attempt to capitalize on what the Wii did, which was becoming popular by doing something completely different. Technically the Wii was not much more than a gimmick either, but it caught on anyway. There's a reason Nintendo ditched it after only one generation. Microsoft were trying to market Kinect for years trying to achieve the same as the Wii, and that was obviously a marketing mistake. They could have implemented the same thing but marketed something else and supported Kinect on the side. But they wanted the big gains of Nintendo.

5) Yeah, which was directly related to Kinect, obviously. They wanted to sell it

6) Yes. And do you honestly think that is good marketing?

7) There are millions of people that let their phones track their every move on a daily basis. People use cameras at home and upload everything to the cloud. But somehow when it was the Xbox, it's a huge issue. So... Bad business decision or bad marketing?

 

[DanielsM]

mar·ket·ing
/ˈmärkədiNG/
noun

1. the action or business of promoting and selling products or services, including market research and advertising.

You can't simply classify it as a business strategy blunder and pretend the marketing was fine. Marketing is a direct part of business. Technically, you can have a mediocre product, and if marketed well enough, it can become a success. Look at the Wii. Additionally, you can support something but not market it. I mean, the Xbox can play Blu-Ray movies. Imagine if all the Xbox marketing focused on that. That is a bad marketing decision and not necessarily a bad business decision to put in the blu-ray player.

People (consumers) clearly didn't like the business strategy and model. You can go market a pile of shit really well, chances are its going to sell like shit. Microsoft has notorious horrible marketing, that hasn't changed, the daily "Phil said" stuff is proof of that. No amount of marketing is going to help their horrible business strategy, these are completely horrible business decisions.

All the cases you pointed out is not marketing, its the strategy which was pushed to marketing. Bad marketing would be the current "Phil said" stupidity on a daily bases... the decisions are strategy and go towards the actual business. No amount of marketing is going to help them, not really, less hurt, maybe.... they are destroy the current business model with no realistic replacement, imo.

I would say the current business decisions are worse than the decisions they made in 2008-2013, MS may want to sell services but there really is no services gamers really want especially on other platforms from MS.

 

[Journey]

Ps5 still gonna dominate them. More games, better name and 100mil passionate and satisfied PS4 owners gives them the edge.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Exactly where is Microsoft deploying all these "services"? Yeah, they don't really exist.

Phil sold Satya a big pile of bullshit.

Xbox Live, Gamepass, Xcloud on the way...

Also if you truly believe that Phil Spencer is able to sell to sell his "bullshit plan" to Satya Nadella as well as the whole Microsoft board, and they don't see through that, you're being delusional about the capabilities of the Microsoft leadership.

 

[Fake]

Calling it Series X is already a marketing mistake....

Too late. Xbox will be called seX.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Official band of the Xbox Series X (XseX) brand:

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Xbox Live, Gamepass, Xcloud on the way...

Also if you truly believe that Phil Spencer is able to sell to sell his "bullshit plan" to Satya Nadella as well as the whole Microsoft board, and they don't see through that, you're being delusional about the capabilities of the Microsoft leadership.

What exactly made you think the Microsoft leadership is any good? No, seriously, where is your faith coming from? Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft... They all had made major mistakes before. What made you think the Microsoft leadership is so special compared to any other company's?

 

[Deleted member 775630]

What exactly made you think the Microsoft leadership is any good? No, seriously, where is your faith coming from? Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft... They all had made major mistakes before. What made you think the Microsoft leadership is so special compared to any other company's?

The decisions they've made since Ballmer left, and what effect this had on the company... The products they release, their cloud infrastructure, and all of it is reflected in their stock price. It's the biggest tech company in the world...

 

[DanielsM]

Xbox Live, Gamepass, Xcloud on the way...

Also if you truly believe that Phil Spencer is able to sell to sell his "bullshit plan" to Satya Nadella as well as the whole Microsoft board, and they don't see through that, you're being delusional about the capabilities of the Microsoft leadership.

Xbox Live Gold has been a thing since 2002.

Game Pass has been a thing since 2017 but is limited to Xbox as a Hardware, major publishers are not going to rush back to the MS Store so they can make a few pennies of revenue on old games. They might experiment with PS Now and Game Pass on closed hardware. So, no real growth opportunity.

xCloud is copying other failed game streaming services, again, already countless services.

delusional about the capabilities of the Microsoft leadership.

Are you sure?

Games for Windows Live
Kinect
Microsoft Band
Windows Phone
Groove Music (formerly Xbox Music)
Xbox Entertainment Studios
Cortana (left to die a slow death)
Microsoft Store (dead like GFWL)

Game streaming isn't going to work, the rest of the services rely on Xbox as a Hardware. Major publishers don't want or desire another middleman especially for no real purpose on other platforms.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Are you sure?

Games for Windows Live
Kinect
Microsoft Band
Windows Phone
Groove Music (formerly Xbox Music)
Xbox Entertainment Studios
Cortana (left to die a slow death)
Microsoft Store (dead like GFWL)

Game streaming isn't going to work, the rest of the services rely on Xbox as a Hardware. Major publishers don't want or desire another middleman especially for no real purpose on other platforms.

You must be trolling, right? Your list is ridiculous. There are even things in there that weren't developed under current MGMT

It's obvious you're just hating on Microsoft for some weird insecurity reason. So good luck with that, but I'm not participating.

 

[Gavon West]

The decisions they've made since Ballmer left, and what effect this had on the company... The products they release, their cloud infrastructure, and all of it is reflected in their stock price. It's the biggest tech company in the world...

Right?? I read his question and was baffled! Sony depends on Playstation as pretty much their bread and butter. Same with Nintendo. Microsoft is the biggest tech company in the world and a trillion dollar company. Sony and Nintendo could only dream of bolstering such claims. They arent even close when taking everything into account.