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[DoctaThompson]

You can upgrade a sound card or DAC without *needing* to. Wtf is wrong with your brain. I hope the Coronavirus spares us of your future insights.

So deflection is your first step. You've done only that over the past few responses already.... What's next? Another insult? But still no explanation to your obviously wrong ideology of audio. You've proven you have no clue about that. So please go on and insult me even further. The lack of knowledge only speaks louder as you continue to deflect. I'll give you one more chance to bring something to the table, so go on. Tell us about this implemention that requires this new technology, Ray tracing audio. We're all dying in anticipation to learn from the great JAMMA who won't even quote me anymore, but simply respond to the thread.

You're a joke, and an arm chair spokesperson for the truly clueless. If you can't back up a single statement in your next response, I will probably just disregard you completely, as you have absolutely no knowledge in this field at all.

 

[DoctaThompson]

I love this peasantry. I like how console gamers started to throw around big words like teraflops, rdna and dedicated audio chips. They don't understand any of it, but they like to say it.
Brilliant.
Well, Imma drop some truth bombs on you, make sure you're ready. Ready? Reveal the spoiler.

Spoiler

HAVING AN AUDIO CHIP IS NOT A SPECIAL THING, EVERY GOD DAMN TECH PRODUCT HAS ONE.

Even cell phones since forever have them. Even the cheap-o's. Shit, even the Apple wired earpod headphones, and other earbuds had them, from years ago. Literally nothing new

 

[DoctaThompson]

Where did JAMMA go? For being so adamant that myself, and other's are completely wrong about Ray tracing audio, I would really like to get the insider scoop. Seems like he just ran away all of a sudden, once his bluff was compromised. Someone send a care package his way!

 

[Panaphonics]

Where did JAMMA go? For being so adamant that myself, and other's are completely wrong about Ray tracing audio, I would really like to get the insider scoop. Seems like he just ran away all of a sudden, once his bluff was compromised. Someone send a care package his way!

triple post? Dude get a life.
This is just a fucking forum. No need to torment people.
GO OUTSIDE AND GET A LIFE

 

[nkarafo]

The integrated audio of the last few years of pc motherboards surpasses the need of an external dac because of improvements of audio over the years.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Assuming XSX will have just 16GB RAM; seems it'll be a 320-bit bus, should afford them 20GB total RAM with maybe 4GB (preferably 2GB) reserved for the OS.

But otherwise, yes I think the SSD is probably what they're referring to. Audio data is less speed and bandwidth-intensive than graphics data, so the performance of the SSD should allow for rather seamless access of audio files.



There's no reason for them to mention anything about an audio chip in context of next-gen systems if it isn't notable. Simply having a normal audio chip is not notable at all; almost all systems going back to the 1980s have had dedicated audio chips.

So yes, they are talking about 3D/ray-tracing audio in this case. Not like it's a monumental engineering feat to pull off, so no reason neither next-gen platform would go without it.

No they are talking about using ray tracing audio, so using GPU ressources for that, like PS5 (we know that since the first Wired interview with Cerny). PS5 has an additional dedicated 3D audio hardware, probably because of VR, but it's going to be also available for others games.

Since the PS5 reveal, Microsoft are trying to checkbox all the hardware features announced by PS5.

- PS5 has hardware based RT in the GPU, not a software trick -> MS has DirectX hardware-accelerated RT
- PS5 has custom fastest SSD available -> MS can use SSD memory to increase memory pool
- PS5 has Ray tracing audio + dedicated 3D audio chip -> MS has ray tracing audio and dedicated audio chip.

Most people won't notice the difference and think both machines are the same. But they are not.

 

[DoctaThompson]

triple post? Dude get a life.
This is just a fucking forum. No need to torment people.
GO OUTSIDE AND GET A LIFE

Replied to two people, and made a single post. Sue me. If you felt you needed to respond to me, then you should take your own advice. Go outside and get a life.

I'm just trying to get an idea of what we're all missing in regards to Ray tracing audio, as everyone in this thread is clueless, according to the person who said we're wrong. If you have anything to add to the conversation, go ahead.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Hey, I'm not saying there's no need for them! My DAC, amp, and headphones cost me as much as my computer. Dedicated is always better than integrated. But, the integrated solutions now a days, are light years better than what was available in dedicated hardware from the 90's and 2000's.

 

[nkarafo]

But, the integrated solutions now a days, are light years better than what was available in dedicated hardware from the 90's and 2000's.

Not sure i ever felt that. And there are tons of motherboards that gone through my hands.

I'm still rocking an Audigy 2 platinum from 2003. And the only reason i'm going to upgrade that is because my next PC won't have an old PCI slot. Needless to say, the sound of this card is so superior that even some casuals who don't know better can tell the difference.

I keep a bunch of audio cards from old machines and scraps. I have built a couple of virtual pinball machines with pretty recent motherboards for some friends and let me tell you, adding an audio card, even a budget one, adds a new level of depth in the sound. It really sounds like a real pinball machine after that. Without one it sounds flat and very fake. You don't need to be an audiophile to see the difference.

Motherboard integrated sound is just there to provide sound so the system is not silent. That's all it does.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Not sure i ever felt that. And there are tons of motherboards that gone through my hands.

I'm still rocking an Audigy 2 platinum from 2003. And the only reason i'm going to upgrade that is because my next PC won't have an old PCI slot. Needless to say, the sound of this card is so superior that even some casuals who don't know better can tell the difference.

I keep a bunch of audio cards from old machines and scraps. I have built a couple of virtual pinball machines with pretty recent motherboards for some friends and let me tell you, adding an audio card, even a budget one, adds a new level of depth in the sound. It really sounds like a real pinball machine after that. Without one it sounds flat and very fake. You don't need to be an audiophile to see the difference.

Motherboard integrated sound is just there to provide sound so the system is not silent. That's all it does.

Trust me, I completely agree. I would rather go blind, than go deaf, as sound is more important to me. But if you were to compare a motherboard from 2010 to 2017, there have been huge strides to integrated audio. I mean you can run a full 7.1 surround sound, from the motherboard, compared to only being able to run 2.0 from previous times. You can even run higher impedance headphones from the motherboard audio alone. Of course you won't run 600ohm cans from the motherboard....Not to say that a dedicated piece is not light years better, because it is. But you can't say audio hasn't came a long way compared to back then.

I wouldn't doubt that any recent integrated audio solution can surpass dedicated cards from early 2000s, minus higher impedance cans.

 

[Shai-Tan]

It's sad how bad current positional audio is. I'm glad there is some movement on console. 7.1 audio in current games sounds very odd with completely wrong volume levels. with a good audio engine headphones would also sound drastically better compared to the terrible virtual surround sound some headsets have. i'm not expecting perfect atmos object based positioning, just less terrible than current games

 

[nkarafo]

Trust me, I completely agree. I would rather go blind, than go deaf, as sound is more important to me. But if you were to compare a motherboard from 2010 to 2017, there have been huge strides to integrated audio. I mean you can run a full 7.1 surround sound, from the motherboard, compared to only being able to run 2.0 from previous times. You can even run higher impedance headphones from the motherboard audio alone. Of course you won't run 600ohm cans from the motherboard....Not to say that a dedicated piece is not light years better, because it is. But you can't say audio hasn't came a long way compared to back then.

I wouldn't doubt that any recent integrated audio solution can surpass dedicated cards from early 2000s, minus higher impedance cans.

Ι don't doubt the surround sound or 7.1 updates you see in more recent motherboard integrated audio. You even get optical output with some, my (old) sound card needs the front panel installed to use an optical. Also it's 5.1 only. However, my doubts are with the actual sound quality. You may have more speakers but that doesn't mean the sound that comes out of each speaker is any better than older motherboards that only supported two speakers.

Maybe there are some specialized or top-tier/premium motherboards that do have better audio. But i have never seen a mainstream motherboard that has noticeably better sound than some other mainstream motherboard, even when they are a decade apart.

 

[Shai-Tan]

Basically copying the PlayStation 5 concept. Wonder if the Xbox one will be any good since they have hardly any experience with audio... and Sony are the king of audio.

this is the consequence of amd silicon "TrueAudio" or whatever they're calling the newest version of it; not much to do with sony/ms

 

[DoctaThompson]

Ι don't doubt the surround sound or 7.1 updates you see in more recent motherboard integrated audio. You even get optical output with some, my (old) sound card needs the front panel installed to use an optical. Also it's 5.1 only. However, my doubts are with the actual sound quality. You may have more speakers but that doesn't mean the sound that comes out of each speaker is any better than older motherboards that only supported two speakers.

Maybe there are some specialized or top-tier/premium motherboards that do have better audio. But i have never seen a mainstream motherboard that has noticeably better sound than some other mainstream motherboard, even when they are a decade apart.

Recent mb's are much better than older ones. But a dedicated sound interface will always be better. But to the general consumer, the integrated solution will be just fine. For people like you and I, we will have dedicated audio interface for this exact reason. But for the general consumer, integrated will do it's job. They won't notice any deficiencies.

 

[Shai-Tan]

anyone playing on tv (like me) isn't even using onboard sound. it's coming from hdmi on the graphics card (in pcm)

the only reason I'd enable the sound card is to use a pair of wireless headphones I got that use the optical out

 

[Kazekage1981]

what kind of sound equipment would a consumer need to purchase to appreciate this new audio technology: 3-d audio, ray tracing audio, etc.

I bought myself 2.1 sound bar with subwoofer and that's about it. Will UHDTV's with HDMI 2.1 have this kind of sound? Would you need coaxial out? Is it integrated with dolby 7.2 ? How would an average lamen notice and appreciate the difference?

 

[MarkMe2525]

Basically copying the PlayStation 5 concept. Wonder if the Xbox one will be any good since they have hardly any experience with audio... and Sony are the king of audio.

What about Xbox one's bespoke audio processor? The shape engine held well through the generation and brings the ability for higher fidelity spatial audio such as Dolby Atmos. I feel that the more accurate takeaway would be that MS is building on an already established foundation of dedicated audio chips rather than copying their competition.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

Mark Cerny mentioned path-traced audio in that Wired article

Fixed for you.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

No they are talking about using ray tracing audio, so using GPU ressources for that, like PS5 (we know that since the first Wired interview with Cerny). PS5 has an additional dedicated 3D audio hardware, probably because of VR, but it's going to be also available for others games.

Since the PS5 reveal, Microsoft are trying to checkbox all the hardware features announced by PS5.

- PS5 has hardware based RT in the GPU, not a software trick -> MS has DirectX hardware-accelerated RT
- PS5 has custom fastest SSD available -> MS can use SSD memory to increase memory pool
- PS5 has Ray tracing audio + dedicated 3D audio chip -> MS has ray tracing audio and dedicated audio chip.

Most people won't notice the difference and think both machines are the same. But they are not.

No, they're virtually identical, this isn't up for debate. They're both using Zen2. They're both using RDNA2. They're both using AMD tech at their very foundation. They will both have customized SSDs with memory-mapped virtual cache. They will both have UHD blu-ray disc drives. They will both support virtually all of the same current and upcoming codec standards and protocols.

The two may use some different language to convey what they are doing, but they essentially converge to the same thing. What will differentiate them are very specific differences in certain rates & capacities of compute or data transfer in certain areas, 1st party games, and some QoL services and features.

Everything else you are pointing to is only calling out semantics, and not much else. Unless you have full spec documentation sheets for both systems at your desk, you can't stake a solid claim on the systems being fundamentally different (outside of some broad things like TF differential (if any), SSD storage size, memory bandwidth differentials etc.), because they would both want to be pretty identical to each other in feature sets such as RT, SSD memory-map virtual cache, ray-tracing and 3D audio etc. for the sake of easing things for third party developers.

It's really that simple.

 

[M1chl]

Seems like we are going backwards. Remember SoundBlaster? I mean OG one... I do too... It seems like for people who were growing up with consoles, you can tell them anything. and it would new and revolutionary. It's super extra CRINGE.

Mark Cerny mentioned raytraced audio in that Wired article

This is like 15+ old technology, which is struggling since Win Vista, but Open Al was there and it has exactly nothing to do with HW implentation, it's just software, HW audio effect, ASIO HW inteface, etc can do a lot of that, but as long as you have HW decoder of the audio stream, you can do what you want with audio without much of computational power. If you don't trust me, MHK can vouch for me in here.

And besides that, X1X (not sure about X1 OG and S) destroy completely PS4/PS4 Pro when it comes to sound, so this is really nothing more than Sony trying to catch up.

 

[M1chl]

I love this peasantry. I like how console gamers started to throw around big words like teraflops, rdna and dedicated audio chips. They don't understand any of it, but they like to say it.
Brilliant.
Well, Imma drop some truth bombs on you, make sure you're ready. Ready? Reveal the spoiler.

Spoiler

HAVING AN AUDIO CHIP IS NOT A SPECIAL THING, EVERY GOD DAMN TECH PRODUCT HAS ONE.

Well to be hoest it's not acurate, there is DAC and there is audio effect acceleration unit. But both ob those this were part of the Soundblaster line in year when even I was a young boi...

EDIT: My boi, why the fuck you have new nick? WHY?

 

[Hobbygaming]

Seems like we are going backwards. Remember SoundBlaster? I mean OG one... I do too... It seems like for people who were growing up with consoles, you can tell them anything. and it would new and revolutionary. It's super extra CRINGE.


This is like 15+ old technology, which is struggling since Win Vista, but Open Al was there and it has exactly nothing to do with HW implentation, it's just software, HW audio effect, ASIO HW inteface, etc can do a lot of that, but as long as you have HW decoder of the audio stream, you can do what you want with audio without much of computational power. If you don't trust me, MHK can vouch for me in here.

And besides that, X1X (not sure about X1 OG and S) destroy completely PS4/PS4 Pro when it comes to sound, so this is really nothing more than Sony trying to catch up.

People know what's in the PS5 better than Mark Cerny himself

He would be very impressed

 

[M1chl]

Well to be hoest it's not acurate, there is DAC and there is audio effect acceleration unit. But both ob those this were part of the Soundblaster line in year when even I was a young boi...

People know what's in the PS5 better than Mark Cerny himself

He would be very impressed

Thumbs up for that, made me laugh : D

Do we have an emoji for that? Oh yes we have, this is for you goor sir:

EDIT: Deep down inside I hope Mark Cerny aka Marek Černý has some Czech roots, so we are going to be more famous in the work more than just Porn (you know Little Caprice? i do too, PERSONALLY), Hašek, Jágr, Daniel Vávra, Václav Blín (my high school teacher, animator of Machinarium, Samorost and well all of the Amanita Design Games), Miloš Forman...atd...ehm etc.

 

[Elektro Demon 2.0]

Well to be hoest it's not acurate, there is DAC and there is audio effect acceleration unit. But both ob those this were part of the Soundblaster line in year when even I was a young boi...

EDIT: My boi, why the fuck you have new nick? WHY?

It's complicated. I dislike that tag I have.
Hopefully a name change will be approved and all shall be well.

 

[kingbean]

Sweet just like my brand new Sega Genesis.

 

[TTOOLL]

So XSX will have audio. Nice.

 

[Bryank75]

I thought they would make audio a subscription based service....

If I was an xbox player, I would be excited about it and think it was the future of gaming...

 

[Tiamat2san]

Every generations they were in, Xbox had the better sound.
I play game on a home cinema since the 32 bit era,
The generation after were just a little better then Xbox came, and the difference was huge.
360/ps3 era a little better for Xbox.
And now the difference Xbox one X and PS4 pro has become huge again.
Can’t Wait for next gen...

 

[Kazza]

Look guys, neither of the two will be audibly different for 99.9% of people. "Ray traced" audio, is nothing more than having a more spacious sense of sound. Take any well mixed movie, from even several years back. It's literally just the processing and mixing of the audio track channels. There is nothing special or new here. And this pertains not only to both the Xbox or Playstation, but in movies and what not. It's just PR nonsense, to rile up Fanboys on both sides.

Case in point, does anyone think the audio teams on games are going to go out of their way to mix and master a game differently in one platform over the other? Hell no. That takes time and money. And I doubt either one will be sonically superior to the other. This is getting ridiculous.

I love this peasantry. I like how console gamers started to throw around big words like teraflops, rdna and dedicated audio chips. They don't understand any of it, but they like to say it.
Brilliant.
Well, Imma drop some truth bombs on you, make sure you're ready. Ready? Reveal the spoiler.

Spoiler

HAVING AN AUDIO CHIP IS NOT A SPECIAL THING, EVERY GOD DAMN TECH PRODUCT HAS ONE.

Jeez, you guys are such buzkills! This new soundchip thing could have opened up a whole new front in the ongoing console warzs, but then you lot come along and pour cold water on the idea. Imagine the fun that could have been had!

Seems like we are going backwards. Remember SoundBlaster? I mean OG one... I do too... It seems like for people who were growing up with consoles, you can tell them anything. and it would new and revolutionary. It's super extra CRINGE.

To be fair, anyone growing up with a SNES and/or Megadrive would have been well aware of the differences in sound chips of those consoles. It's still a topic of debate even up to the present day.

 

[DeeDogg_]

Nice. Keep it going MS. Thanks for being so open and transparent.

Hope she sees this bro

 

[DoctaThompson]

Jeez, you guys are such buzkills! This new soundchip thing could have opened up a whole new front in the ongoing console warzs, but then you lot come along and pour cold water on the idea. Imagine the fun that could have been had!



To be fair, anyone growing up with a SNES and/or Megadrive would have been well aware of the differences in sound chips of those consoles. It's still a topic of debate even up to the present day.

We're the buzzkills, yet that person started it off by calling me thick, wishing coronavirus on me, etc? You can't defend ignorance, unless your ignorant just like him. All were doing in stating facts. People can debate how they feel, etc. But don't start with insults, cause you'll only get embarrassed.

 

[nemiroff]

So what else has changed in the audio realm for this need for dedicated hardware than?

Realistically and properly calculating how a subject experience multiple sound sources in a constantly changing 3D scene (and keep the sound rich at the same time), and even how the sounds affect eachother, takes processing power. All of this is actually quite similar to calculating ray tracing light bounce. So, "tracing" the sound much like light ray tracing is the "new" aspect here.

 

[V4skunk]

The audio chip increases the sounds gfx, resolution and frames per second to ultra/ 4k60fps.

 

[TBiddy]

I thought they would make audio a subscription based service....

If I was an xbox player, I would be excited about it and think it was the future of gaming...

Are you a joke account or a you really posting for real in this thread?

Your posts in this thread sounds like something from a 14 year old on GameFaq - not a 45 year old (i assume?) on Gaf. It’s embarrasing to witness.

 

[theclaw135]

IIRC the GBA lacks discrete audio, many ports have inferior music to the 16bit consoles it was meant to rival.

 

[Shmunter]

Sound blaster Pro!

 

[Bryank75]

Are you a joke account or a you really posting for real in this thread?

Your posts in this thread sounds like something from a 14 year old on GameFaq - not a 45 year old (i assume?) on Gaf. It’s embarrasing to witness.

It wasn't meant to be taken seriously...
Just a bit of fun.

 

[HolyTruth]

Are you a joke account or a you really posting for real in this thread?

Your posts in this thread sounds like something from a 14 year old on GameFaq - not a 45 year old (i assume?) on Gaf. It’s embarrasing to witness.

he is a console warrior and troll poster.
But it’s ok, he bashes against Xbox, this is fine. If he would bash against Sony, he would be banned long time ago.
just look at the ban List. Only people who bash Sony get banned here

 

[HolyTruth]

It wasn't meant to be taken seriously...
Just a bit of fun.

you mean trolling. And it’s fun as long as it’s against xbox.
if you say something here against Sony you are being instantly banned.
But bashing Xbox is Fine.
Has been always like that here, remember bishoptl?

 

[Bryank75]

you mean trolling. And it’s fun as long as it’s against xbox.
if you say something here against Sony you are being instantly banned.
But bashing Xbox is Fine.
Has been always like that here, remember bishoptl?

Naaa I'm good with xbox players... I love consoles. Its subscription services and cloud gaming I have a problem with. That includes PSNow.

 

[Bernkastel]

Basically copying the PlayStation 5 concept. Wonder if the Xbox one will be any good since they have hardly any experience with audio... and Sony are the king of audio.

LOL the Xbox One X has much better audio than PS4 Pro. They already support Dolby Atmos and DTS X in gaming.

No. PS5 has a dedicated 3D audio chip. Here the dev is only talking about normal audio chip.

3D Audio is a gimmick like Retina display.

 

[Bryank75]

LOL the Xbox One X has much better audio than PS4 Pro. They already support Dolby Atmos and DTS X in gaming.

3D Audio is a gimmick like Retina display.

And dolby atmos!

 

[Bernkastel]

And dolby atmos!

No, its an actual thing not a marketing term like 3D Audio.

 

[M1chl]

Jeez, you guys are such buzkills! This new soundchip thing could have opened up a whole new front in the ongoing console warzs, but then you lot come along and pour cold water on the idea. Imagine the fun that could have been had!



To be fair, anyone growing up with a SNES and/or Megadrive would have been well aware of the differences in sound chips of those consoles. It's still a topic of debate even up to the present day.

Yeah well, MIDI chips are really not a thing anymore.

 

[sonomamashine]

The Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip that will help sound designers considerably, a first-party Microsoft developer confirmed.

Ninja Theory senior sound designer Daniele Galante confirmed that the Xbox Series X dedicated audio chip of the new console will grant sound developers all the power they need without having to fight programmers and artists for memory and CPU power.

We’re going to have a dedicated chip to work with audio, which means we finally won’t have to fight with programmers and artists for memory and CPU power.
We take for granted that graphics are powered by their own video cards. But in audio, we haven’t had anything like that. Now we have some power dedicated to us.

This is the first time that a dedicated audio chip has been confirmed for the Xbox Series X. We learned last month that the console would feature hardware-accelerated audio, but we still did not know how it would be achieved.

Daniele Galante praised the Xbox Series X audio innovations considerably, as the technical limitations will become fewer.

Making games always has you thinking about technical limitations. Eventually, these limitations become less and less the more you evolve with new consoles, but at the same time it’s always a constant thing: These are the maximum number of voices we can have, because otherwise the game is going to lag.

Among the massive improvements coming with the Xbox Series X in regards to audio and sound will be audio ray tracing, as confirmed last month.

With the introduction of hardware accelerated ray tracing with the Xbox series X, we’re actually able to enable a whole new set of scenarios, whether that’s more realistic lighting, better reflections, we can even use it for things like spatial audio and have ray traced audio

The Xbox Series launches later this year worldwide.

Xbox Series X Confirmed to Have Dedicated Audio Chip; Sound Developers "Won't Have to Fight Programmers and Artists for Memory and CPU Power.”

According to Ninja Theory senior sound designer Daniele Galante, the Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip that will help sound designers considerably

wccftech.com

 

[Max_Po]

This isn't 1998, no one fights for resources.

Colossal Bullshit... R O F L anything to make news and headlines...

 

[DoctaThompson]

The sound chip will take up approximately 3.975 terrorflops, unless it's Ray traced audio, which will then add 7 gigawatts to the surrounding layer of atmospheric sound. These very sounds will transform the way that you play your games. The sound is so impressive, your deaf grandpa will regain his sense of hearing.


This shit has got to stop. Having a dedicated audio clip isn't anything new or revolutionary. Again, water is wet...

 

[Max_Po]

The sound chip will take up approximately 3.975 terrorflops, unless it's Ray traced audio, which will then add 7 gigawatts to the surrounding layer of atmospheric sound. These very sounds will transform the way that you play your games. The sound is so impressive, your deaf grandpa will regain his sense of hearing.


This shit has got to stop. Having a dedicated audio clip isn't anything new or revolutionary. Again, water is wet...

 

[M1chl]

What fucking year is this????

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Already a thread

Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip, Ninja Theory engineers reveal

Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip, Ninja Theory engineers reveal Hardware acceleration could enable 3D audio Xbox Series X will have its own dedicated audio chip, which will improve the quality of sound in next-gen games, first-party engineers have told VGC. Hardware...

www.neogaf.com