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This "I'm a progressive but if Hillary is the nominee, I'm not voting" shit is stale

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daveo42

Banned
Congrats on your vote for Trump.

I really hate this logic. It's flat out flawed and voting for someone just to vote against someone else shouldn't be the way you cast ballots. This is why people vote party lines and not actual issues.

You and others who think like this are part of the reason why America's political system is so dysfunctional. "Voting third party is a waste. You're just giving your vote to X. Do you really want X in office?" Do you not understand the other side thinks the exact same way and do that because your side does it too?
 

fantomena

Member
I find the system you folks have absolutely terrible. "If you don't vote Hillary or at all, you will vote Trump". Fuck that shitty nonsense.

America will always be in the same circle as it's always been since you folks never can appreciate a leftist candidate when you get one.
 

Mael

Member
We literally have gay marriage because of SCOTUS and people question if it's really that bad to let Donald Trump stack the same bench of judges with corporation loving conservatives?
You'll have to excuse my French but are people this stupid?
Was June 2015 that far away?

For the record, Trump actually want to shred the 1rst amendment because it's unfair people get to criticize him.

so...did I miss the great argument for allowing Donald "I'm gonna shred the 1rst amendment and now people who lie about me will give hyuuge amount of money" Trump to pick SCOTUS judges?

I asked twice already did someone explain the SCOTUS thing and how it's an issue in this election and why Hillary is unfit to choose SCOTUS judges over Trump (or why it's going to be the same anyway)
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
dont vote for a president then but, please, vote for members of congress and on local initiatives. the worst thing you could do is simply not vote, that's weak as fuck.



we had primaries and the primaries are bearing out the public's opinion on who should be candidates or not. bernie had money and a pretty great political machine behind him and he's not going to be the candidate because the public has spoken. It is what it is.



Seems like progressives have made their choices already. If those who do not feel like the progressives are being properly represented then feel free to start an offshoot. If the Tea Party can do it for the right then why can't progressives do it for the left?

the fact is, progress is often a slow and frustrating thing to watch play out. You can vote for incremental progress or not, it's entirely your call. But not voting for incremental progress is also a sign that you're not interested in true progress at all.

yes. vote vote vote.
If you don't vote, you dont exist, and no one needs to court you.

You define progressiveness based on one policy, the policy you personally think is most important.

If your definition of progressive is "only people who agree with me on issue X" then it shouldn't be surprising that your definition is both out-of-step with and offputting to the rest of the world. That is not how anybody else uses the word!

But your post doesn't explain any problems with Hillary. It's purely a suggestion that people who support Hillary are not as progressive as you. That's the point of my critique.

Now, obviously you got the black swan response of somebody who accepted your dishonest framing and posted "you're right, I am not as progressive as you." So sure, no surprise that you liked that answer. But I don't think you should expect a lot of those!

Now this is unfair, I did not say it was based on a single policy.
Any issue, you name it, we have have a discussion what is the progressive stance.

What is the progressive stance on Healthcare? Education? Recreational Drugs? Death Penalty? Money in politics? Gun Control? Financial regulation? minimum wage? taxes? social security? immigration? etc.

We can have that conversation. Attacking me for being "single issue" is not fair.
 

Future

Member
I really hate this logic. It's flat out flawed and voting for someone just to vote against someone else shouldn't be the way you cast ballots. This is why people vote party lines and not actual issues.

You and others who think like this are part of the reason why America's political system is so dysfunctional. "Voting third party is a waste. You're just giving your vote to X. Do you really want X in office?" Do you not understand the other side thinks the exact same way?

Idealist view. This logic only works if you don't have an absolutely horrible candidate like trump and ignore the circumstances of having a right wing president with a right wing congress for two years.

It's too big a threat to ignore. You swallow your pride, play the game, and prevent bad shit from happening
 
I asked twice already did someone explain the SCOTUS thing and how it's an issue in this election and why Hillary is unfit to choose SCOTUS judges over Trump (or why it's going to be the same anyway)

the best answer anyone gave was OH NO WE MIGHT GET CENTRIST JUDGES!!!!11!!! which is not only completely unfounded but also what do they expect we would get if a republican is voted into office?

They don't have a good answer because to answer the question honestly is to admit that progressives should vote for Hillary, which of course is completely unacceptable because reasons
 

rjinaz

Member
i want sanders. i don't like trump (or any of the repubs for that matter) and i don't like hillary. if it comes down to one of them, why should i vote?

One of the most important issues to you is marijuana. If you want that to keep moving forward in a positive direction (states legalizing it individually) the last thing you want are republicans in office. Which is worst in the hypothetical? Marijuana not being legalized federally tomorrow or marijuana being illegal federally and statewide tomorrow and for the next couple of decades?

It's important to consider the bigger picture with these things.
 

jtb

Banned
Jesus fuck, this rhetoric is getting so old. So as a liberal, the only reasons I have to not like Hillary are either a) I'm old and a misogynist or b) I'm young and ignorant? Really?

Well, if it's a choice between Hillary and Trump...
 

Mael

Member
Where's this confidence coming from that Bernie 2.0 is a sure thing in 2024?

Well, if Bernie is really in it for his ideas and not for himself surely he will prep up people to take the task for the next round (and also at the local level).
 

CrazyDude

Member
I really hate this logic. It's flat out flawed and voting for someone just to vote against someone else shouldn't be the way you cast ballots. This is why people vote party lines and not actual issues.

You and others who think like this are part of the reason why America's political system is so dysfunctional. "Voting third party is a waste. You're just giving your vote to X. Do you really want Y in office?" Do you not understand the other side thinks the exact same way?

It's not flawed, it's reality. A third party will never be viable unless we change the entire governmental system to one that is closer to a parliamentary system. Unless you can tell me a situation were completely rewriting the Constitution is a viable path to take, it will continue to be an impossibility.

I am voting on issues, which is why I am voting for Clinton in election despite me liking Sanders more. People like you make it seem like Trump and Clinton are exactly the same. That a Clinton presidency would be no different from a Trump presidency. Is that what you want to tell me? That those two are the same on the issues.
 

daveo42

Banned
Idealist view. This logic only works if you don't have an absolutely horrible candidate like trump and ignore the circumstances of having a right wing president with a right wing congress for two years.

It's too big a threat to ignore. You swallow your pride, play the game, and prevent bad shit from happening

Fuck the game. Fuck the system. If this is how politics continue to run in our country, we should just flat out riot and overthrow our government, unless people are fine with being 50 years behind every other developed nation through "small steps forward." Don't get me wrong, slow and steady progress is fine, but that progress should have started and continued decades ago. Not fucking eight years ago.
 

jtb

Banned
"Both sides are exactly the same" is just another way of saying you're too fucking lazy to actually research parties' political positions.

Well, if Bernie is really in it for his ideas and not for himself surely he will prep up people to take the task for the next round (and also at the local level).

Big "if."

Fuck the game. Fuck the system. If this is how politics continue to run in our country, we should just flat out riot and overthrow our government, unless people are fine with being 50 years behind every other developed nation through "small steps forward." Don't get me wrong, slow and steady progress is fine, but that progress should have started and continued decades ago. Not fucking eight years ago.

Yes, fuck the voters and the will of the voters. Really, fuck democracy.

Also, it was started decades ago. the New Deal? the Civil Rights Act? What, you think those aren't progress?
 

Steel

Banned
Where's this confidence coming from that Bernie 2.0 is a sure thing in 2024?

Demographics. Young people favor Bernie by a large margin, but young people are less likely to turn out to vote. As these young people get older, they'll be more likely to turn out to vote. So in 2024, a Bernie 2.0 can win the democratic primary. Today he can't.

On that note, Hillary was considered too liberal domestically in 2008. But look where we're at now.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Fuck the game. Fuck the system. If this is how politics continue to run in our country, we should just flat out riot and overthrow our government, unless people are fine with being 50 years behind every other developed nation through "small steps forward." Don't get me wrong, slow and steady progress is fine, but that progress should have started and continued decades ago. Not fucking eight years ago.

We should, we won't, so we work with what we got.
 
Fuck the game. Fuck the system. If this is how politics continue to run in our country, we should just flat out riot and overthrow our government, unless people are fine with being 50 years behind every other developed nation through "small steps forward." Don't get me wrong, slow and steady progress is fine, but that progress should have started and continued decades ago. Not fucking eight years ago.

People aren't going to overthrow the US government. That's an even greater pipe dream than Bernie being elected.
 
I really hate this logic. It's flat out flawed and voting for someone just to vote against someone else shouldn't be the way you cast ballots. This is why people vote party lines and not actual issues.

You and others who think like this are part of the reason why America's political system is so dysfunctional. "Voting third party is a waste. You're just giving your vote to X. Do you really want X in office?" Do you not understand the other side thinks the exact same way and do that because your side does it too?

But it is, sometimes. There's ideals and reality. This is a numbers game, at the end of the day.

Fuck the game. Fuck the system. If this is how politics continue to run in our country, we should just flat out riot and overthrow our government, unless people are fine with being 50 years behind every other developed nation through "small steps forward." Don't get me wrong, slow and steady progress is fine, but that progress should have started and continued decades ago. Not fucking eight years ago.

Nevermind, actually. If "burn it all down" is your way of looking at it, then there's no point in debate.
 
Fuck the game. Fuck the system. If this is how politics continue to run in our country, we should just flat out riot and overthrow our government, unless people are fine with being 50 years behind every other developed nation through "small steps forward." Don't get me wrong, slow and steady progress is fine, but that progress should have started and continued decades ago. Not fucking eight years ago.

Yes, what worth is 240 years of democratic tradition and legitimacy of government when berniebros want to throw a hissyfit?
 
Fuck the game. Fuck the system. If this is how politics continue to run in our country, we should just flat out riot and overthrow our government, unless people are fine with being 50 years behind every other developed nation through "small steps forward." Don't get me wrong, slow and steady progress is fine, but that progress should have started and continued decades ago. Not fucking eight years ago.

ah okay so you're ignoring that other progressive countries aren't dealing with, what, something like 400 million persons and can enact change at a much quicker pace than we can because of it.
 

pigeon

Banned
See the OP.
It is the idea that folks have to vote for her when they feel she hasn't earned their vote.

"Fall in line" is basically the worst thing you can say to convince a Sanders supporter. His entire career has been about fighting for what he thinks is right.

There is a difference between compromise and compromising your principles.

This strikes me as a misunderstanding of the argument. Although, admittedly, the OP is a terrible standard bearer for it since it's just a pile of undifferentiated rage.

I think a certain amount of disconnect here is just about what voting is and what it means. The argument most Hillary supporters are putting forward is based on a model of voting which is something like:

* All candidates put forward a policy platform
* All voters weigh their policy preferences and the perceived likelihood of each candidate achieving their policy goals and rank the policy platforms in order of preference (if you only have policy preferences that don't appear on any platform, you have to do something like rank the platforms based on which one is most likely to create future platforms that do contain your preferences)
* Voters then vote for the candidate with the policy platform they prefer the most or disprefer the least, factoring in success probability
* The candidate that is elected then governs more or less towards that policy platform

In this model your vote is primarily a small opportunity for you to control the policy outcomes of the country. Note that in this model any third-party vote or absent vote is more or less totally irrational because the third-party candidates have approximately zero probability of winning and enacting their policy goals.*

So most of their arguments are basically "if you prefer Bernie's policy platform to Hillary's, then your demonstrated preferences are such that you are likely to prefer Hillary's policy platform to Trump's; therefore doing anything other than voting for Hillary is irrational."

I think this is fine as far as it goes, minus the, you know, rage. But this is not necessarily the election model that a lot of people have, and I think that's creating disconnect.

For example, when I hear people say "why should I vote for a candidate I don't like" it suggests to me an election model that goes something like:

* Each candidate makes an appeal to voters to convince them that they are the best person to run the country
* Each voter chooses whichever candidate has convinced them, or no candidate if nobody has convinced them

In this model your vote is a personal stamp of approval rather than an exercise of your sovereign franchise.

This is probably a pretty common model among a lot of voters, and not an unreasonable one to have -- it sounds a lot like what you would expect a democracy to be. Obviously there are a lot of people who don't agree with it and think it is "not tactical." But arguments based on Hillary being the rational choice don't do a lot for people who are concerned with personal appeal. If you were convinced that Bernie Sanders would do a good job of running the country, and you are not convinced that Hillary Clinton would do a good job, then the argument that her policy platform is preferable to Donald's seems somewhat out of the blue.

There are a lot of other difficulties along these lines as well. For example, there are a few posters who have said something like "Donald Trump has said he will do policy X, but I don't believe him, I think he will do policy Y." These people seem to be applying more or less the rational policy preference model; however, their approach to identifying a candidate's platform is nonstandard for some reason. That is a totally different argument to have!

Anyway, that is more or less why I think these threads go so poorly (along with, like, the fact that this is a dumb point in time to be arguing with Sanders supporters that they should support Hillary). It's not necessarily about the candidates or the policy every time. Sometimes it's just about how we understand democracy and franchise to work.


* I said more or less! I think, for example, the argument that voting Green in California is a mechanism for convincing the Democratic Party to be more liberal is pretty solid and defensible.
 

rjinaz

Member
Fuck the game. Fuck the system. If this is how politics continue to run in our country, we should just flat out riot and overthrow our government, unless people are fine with being 50 years behind every other developed nation through "small steps forward." Don't get me wrong, slow and steady progress is fine, but that progress should have started and continued decades ago. Not fucking eight years ago.

The problem is that it isn't just the government. It's the people that want these things. Almost half of the country are perfectly happy with us being behind 50 years. Are you going to overthrow half of the country as well?

Look I hate small steps forward as well, but I hate steps backward even more.
 
I really hate this logic. It's flat out flawed and voting for someone just to vote against someone else shouldn't be the way you cast ballots. This is why people vote party lines and not actual issues.

You and others who think like this are part of the reason why America's political system is so dysfunctional. "Voting third party is a waste. You're just giving your vote to X. Do you really want X in office?" Do you not understand the other side thinks the exact same way?

I'm sorry that you feel that way, but that's exactly what it is. It's a throw away vote. Unfortunately we do live in a two party system but that isn't going to change with you just writing in someone's name.

We have a candidate whose entire campaign is based on hate and bigotry. The difference isn't a matter of mere political disagreement. The difference between Hilary and Trump is so huge it's hard to wrap one's head around the logic of being so indifferent.

This isn't an election about Democrat v Republican. No, Hilary isn't my favorite candidate and I voted for Sanders in the primaries, but I recognize that given the choice between her and Hilter (not so far from hyperbole anymore) it would be irresponsible of me to do effectually do nothing in response.
 

Cheebo

Banned
Fuck the game. Fuck the system. If this is how politics continue to run in our country, we should just flat out riot and overthrow our government, unless people are fine with being 50 years behind every other developed nation through "small steps forward." Don't get me wrong, slow and steady progress is fine, but that progress should have started and continued decades ago. Not fucking eight years ago.
So you want a dictatorship?

The reason Hillary is the nominee is because the VOTERS picked her. We live in a democracy. The people decide who our leaders are. For better or worse.
 

Cheebo

Banned
healthcare and education as human rights = hissyfit
Proclaiming we should be overthrowing the US government because the voters picked someone else within a democratic voting system is yeah, a hissy fit.

We live in a democracy. Voters decide. Voters decided they like Hillary better than Bernie. Dems the breaks. It's how it works.
 

HylianTom

Banned
In all honesty, are there better reasons to not vote Hillary if she gets the nomination. Why else would you not vote if the election was trump versus Clinton. If you don't value a democratic supreme court nominee, or a government that didn't both have a right president and right congress that can actively repeal progress towards a more liberal point of view..... Then yeah, pretty ignorant if you are a liberal. And I'd guess young too

If, after not getting your candidate from the 2016 primary process, you're willing to basically throw any hope for 2020, 2024, etc into the dustbin, then chances are you're not as serious on the issues as you claim to be.

It'd be nice if these progressive folks would come out and just admit it. For them, bottom line: they're willing to sabotage future Bernies. "Yes, but Hillary is too ______" or "but Hillary did _____ years ago" doesn't undo this fact. They're great examples of whataboutism, but let's not mistake them as some form of argument that justifies blowing the movement up for a generation.

In an odd way, I'd argue that Hillary GE voters are more serious about seeing Bernie's vision eventually fulfilled than the Bernie-or-Bust crowd. At least they'd effectively be voting to keep his vision alive. For folks who like to emote a lot about conscience/purity/etc, I don't understand how they reconcile their stance with this reality.

And they'll dodge this opportunity to explain so yet again. *waves hi*
 
Everyone not voting: if you want a different system and leaders, are you putting in the work to get that, or are you just expecting it to be given to you?

If you want a revolution, make one.
 
I assume that the "sit out the election" crowd don't realize that state and local elections affect them far more than any presidential election ever could, but by not showing up to vote they cut their nose to spite their face.

In other words, the position is pretty intellectually bankrupt.
 
Most of my 'FB' friends are all over Sanders, but I'm pretty comfortable in saying that they would all 'fall in line, behind Clinton' to prevent Trump.

Although we are from Washington, which is a pretty hardcore Blue state.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I mean, do you even understand the political process here? Progressivism isn't something you bandy about for only the most left candidates. It is a very real, defined, political viewpoint that was established by sitting Presidents and the actions they took to achieve it. Real people have already defined this term. It existed before you were even born. You don't get to come along and change it because you aren't happy with the people it lets into the tent.

People need to realize that you can't just swap "liberal" with "progressive". The KKK of the 1920s was progressive. The prohibitionists were progressive. The eugenicists were progressive. There's plenty of bad stuff that's progressive.
 

Pork

Banned
In all honesty, are there better reasons to not vote Hillary if she gets the nomination. Why else would you not vote if the election was trump versus Clinton. If you don't value a democratic supreme court nominee, or a government that didn't both have a right president and right congress that can actively repeal progress towards a more liberal point of view..... Then yeah, pretty ignorant if you are a liberal. And I'd guess young too

Well, if it's a choice between Hillary and Trump...

Whoa, stop. When did I say I wouldn't vote for Hillary? The person I originally quoted was responding to the question, "Why do some 'liberals' seem to dislike Hilary?" Their answers were:

1. Old misogynists

2. Young Bernie-ites who seriously don't understand what 8 years of Bush did to this country.

As if those are the only reasons a liberal can ever dislike Hillary. Even though I don't like her (and no, not because I'm an old misogynist or because I'm a young and ignorant Bernie Bro), I'll still end up voting for her because the alternative is fucking Trump. That doesn't mean that I have to like her though, and insinuating that I MUST be either an old misogynist or a young ignoramus because I'm not enamored with her is entirely unfair. It's bullshit partisan ad-hominem-ing, not to mention a false dichotomy. There are plenty of legitimate reasons not to like Hillary that have nothing to do with misogyny or youthful ignorance. Her voting records on war, her closeness to Wall Street and corporate lobbyists, the whole email deal, etc. To say that those are all moot and that I MUST just hate women or be stupid is facetious and slanderous. Come on, how you do not see that?

I'm just so tired of the "If you don't like Hillary, then you must necessarily be a misogynist" identity politics bullshit.
 

daveo42

Banned
Overthrowing the government is a bit more...radical, though we as citizens of this country need to push for more social and economic change at a faster rate. We are a fucking huge country, but we shouldn't let that size force these changes to be slow and lumbering or we will get left behind in the 21st century.

Also, it was started decades ago. the New Deal? the Civil Rights Act? What, you think those aren't progress?

So we can outright ignore all that violence again Blacks in this country, right? Or discrimination against minorities? Or maybe how some states are still allowed to actively discriminate against LBGT? Progress, btw, isn't just measured in civil liberties, which this country still struggles with.
 

HylianTom

Banned
I assume that the "sit out the election" crowd don't realize that state and local elections affect them far more than any presidential election ever could, but by not showing up to vote they cut their nose to spite their face.

In other words, the position is pretty intellectually bankrupt.
You aren't kidding. In our last local off-year local election, turnout was somewhere under 20%. With even a small bit of organizing, it isn't very difficult to move the margins a few percentage points. And then it isn't difficult to use this as leverage against officials once they're in office later on.

"We made you, and we can take you out!" :)
 

jtb

Banned
Overthrowing the government is a bit more...radical, though we as citizens of this country need to push for more social and economic change at a faster rate. We are a fucking huge country, but we shouldn't let that size force these changes to be slow and lumbering or we will get left behind in the 21st century.



So we can outright ignore all that violence again Blacks in this country, right? Or discrimination against minorities? Or maybe how some states are still allowed to actively discriminate against LBGT? Progress, btw, isn't just measured in civil liberties, which this country still struggles with.

who said anything about ignoring it? who said anything about the current state of things being good enough? of course it's not good enough -- that's why staying home this election is fucking selfish, narcissistic, and idiotic. to not recognize how critically important it is to protect the progress we have made, rather than let Republicans continue to dismantle the Voting Rights Act, is short-sighted and completely counterintuitive.
 

Mael

Member
Voting for Trump if Bernie loses = hissyfit = healthcare and education will be even further from being human rights.

Not that anyone who does the above really cares about what happens.

With Trump free speech won't even be part of human rights.
It's kinda funny to speak of human rights when the USA isn't even bound by basic stuffs like Geneva convention and can do war crimes like Stalin's USSR and never risk any international trial.
 
I feel like not voting at all sends a much stronger message than voting for one of two candidates that you don't like.

"I don't give a shit about minorities being targeted by the rhetoric of Trump and the stagnation of progress in this country should a Republican get into office."

This "fuck this system" romanticizing will be the country's undoing.
 

daveo42

Banned
I'm sorry that you feel that way, but that's exactly what it is. It's a throw away vote. Unfortunately we do live in a two party system but that isn't going to change with you just writing in someone's name.

We have a candidate whose entire campaign is based on hate and bigotry. The difference isn't a matter of mere political disagreement. The difference between Hilary and Trump is so huge it's hard to wrap one's head around the logic of being so indifferent.

This isn't an election about Democrat v Republican. No, Hilary isn't my favorite candidate and I voted for Sanders in the primaries, but I recognize that given the choice between her and Hilter (not so far from hyperbole anymore) it would be irresponsible of me to do effectually do nothing in response.

Im not saying I'm not voting, just not voting for Hillary. Does that mean I'm voting Trump? Fuck no. Also, I'm not dumb enough to write in someone. The majority of the time write-in votes aren't counted unless they are individuals actively running for President. I know people would vote "Micky Mouse" while is actually throwing a vote away.

I'm still going to do my civic duty to vote in my representatives in both this and the mid-term election. And I think you're wrong that people don't view this as a Republican v Democrat election. Far too many people view it in such black and white terms, not only on the national, but the state and local levels.

who said anything about ignoring it? who said anything about the current state of things being good enough? of course it's not good enough -- that's why staying home this election is fucking selfish, narcissistic, and idiotic. to not recognize how critically important it is to protect the progress we have made, rather than let Republicans continue to dismantle the Voting Rights Act, is short-sighted and completely counterintuitive.

I didn't say anything about staying home. Like I said above, I'm still voting in the election.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Overthrowing the government is a bit more...radical, though we as citizens of this country need to push for more social and economic change at a faster rate. We are a fucking huge country, but we shouldn't let that size force these changes to be slow and lumbering or we will get left behind in the 21st century.



So we can outright ignore all that violence again Blacks in this country, right? Or discrimination against minorities? Or maybe how some states are still allowed to actively discriminate against LBGT? Progress, btw, isn't just measured in civil liberties, which this country still struggles with.
Speaking of the Civil Rights Act, the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 last years to gut part of the Voting Rights Acts. It was a 5-4 decision.

Before the Shelby County v. Holder decision came down on June 25, Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act required federal review of new voting rules in 15 states, most of them in the South. (In a few of these states, only specific counties or townships were covered.) Chief Justice John Roberts voted to gut the Voting Rights Act on the basis that "our country has changed," and that blanket federal protection wasn't needed to stop discrimination. But the country hasn't changed as much as he may think.

We looked at how many of these 15 states passed or implemented voting restrictions after Section 5 was invalidated, compared to the states that were not covered by the law. (We defined "voting restriction" as passing or implementing a voter ID law, cutting voting hours, purging voter rolls, or ending same-day registration. Advocates criticize these kinds of laws for discriminating against low-income voters, young people, and minorities, who tend to vote for Democrats.) We found that 8 of the 15 states, or 53 percent, passed or implemented voting restrictions since June 25, compared to 3 of 35 states that were not covered under Section 5—or less than 9 percent. Additionally, a number of states not covered by the Voting Rights Act actually expanded voting rights in the same time period.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/republican-voting-rights-supreme-court-id
But who cares a the Supreme Court? Bernie is not winning the primary so screw everything! You risk going backwards with Republicans as they are now.

Why should leftists vote if there are no leftist to vote for?

To keep rightists out of office.
 
I feel like not voting at all sends a much stronger message than voting for one of two candidates that you don't like.

No, it just means that your voice doesn't get heard. When you don't vote, no one actually hears you, at all. That message you talk about sending doesn't send at all, because no one is actually paying attention to you when you don't do anything.

Either get your ass in that booth and be counted, or sit down and eat whatever dinner you get served, because you sure as hell didn't say what you wanted.
 
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