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[Zaptruder]

If I'm to be honest... I think a lot of the difference in mindset comes from fear. So much fear.

Like the clinton supporters are all thinking - if you don't vote, then we're doomed.

And I'm sitting here thinking - well, if it comes down to Clinton vs Trump, there's no way that Clinton loses. So why the fuck are Clinton supporters shaming Sanders supporters for not wanting to add more votes to the tally?

Like... this shit's going to be land slide IMO. But if you think that Trump somehow has a chance in hell, then yeah, I can see why you'd be all - "MOTHERFUCKERS GET OUT THERE AND VOTE I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T LIKE CLINTON OR NOT! JUST DOOOO IITTTTT."

But fuck, the polling at this stage for Clinton v Trump is solid. If polling closer to election date proves to be closer, then that'd probably be the time to rally the small percentage of Sanders supporters that are spurning their rational beliefs. Also more effective because the primaries will be long over.

At this point in time, the whole underlying context of this thread is like Clinton supporters rubbing salt in the wound - "Our candidate is the presumptive nominee! VOTE FOR HER IF YOU'RE EVEN HALFWAY RATIONAL YOU FILTHY SANDERS SUPPORTERS!"

It really does come across as assholish as that, even if some of the points been made are solid. The heavily implied (and occasional literal) accusations of racism against Sanders supporters for not wanting to support Clinton is especially fun.

 

[Melkezadek]

Ignorance deserves education. But if you know, and dont care about the fact, then that makes you an asshole.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that his supporters are unfamiliar with his stance on minorities.

No way in hell will I ever believe that.

 

[Cheebo]

If I'm to be honest... I think a lot of the difference in mindset comes from fear. So much fear.

Like the clinton supporters are all thinking - if you don't vote, then we're doomed.

And I'm sitting here thinking - well, if it comes down to Clinton vs Trump, there's no way that Clinton loses. So why the fuck are Clinton supporters shaming Sanders supporters for not wanting to add more votes to the tally?

Like... this shit's going to be land slide IMO. But if you think that Trump somehow has a chance in hell, then yeah, I can see why you'd be all - "MOTHERFUCKERS GET OUT THERE AND VOTE I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T LIKE CLINTON OR NOT! JUST DOOOO IITTTTT."

But fuck, the polling at this stage for Clinton v Trump is solid. If polling closer to election date proves to be closer, then that'd probably be the time to rally the small percentage of Sanders supporters that are spurning their rational beliefs. Also more effective because the primaries will be long over.

At this point in time, the whole underlying context of this thread is like Clinton supporters rubbing salt in the wound - "Our candidate is the presumptive nominee! VOTE FOR HER IF YOU'RE EVEN HALFWAY RATIONAL YOU FILTHY SANDERS SUPPORTERS!"

It really does come across as assholish as that, even if some of the points been made are solid. The heavily implied (and occasional literal) accusations of racism against Sanders supporters for not wanting to support Clinton is especially fun.

Under-estimate Trump at your own peril. We aren't taking anything for granted here. We are fucking DOOMED if he wins. That's why apathetic Sanders butt hurt supporters need to get over themselves and get going. We have a common enemy to take down.

I say this as someone who voted Sanders in MI.

 

[Darryl M R]

All I respond to people when I see "If Bernie doesn't get the nomination then I'll riot yada yada" is lol.

All you can do is laugh and hope people are joke. I like the fact that my friends and family have health care, but you won't vote Dem in the general election because your candidate didn't get picked? I guess. I can't make you vote, I just think you are dumb. Marco Rubio could start a new campaign as a Dem and promise not to repeal the ACA and I would vote for him if he got the recommendation, I like my odds with any Dem as president.

 

[Nipo]

When Trumps ENTIRE campaign message is built around racism towards Hispanics. It is the centerpiece of every single speech he gives. Yeah it's safe to say they are racists. It's like saying "I may support the KKK but that doesn't mean I am racist!".

If you support an open racist you are going to get branded a racist or at the very least a supporter of a racist, and fairly so.

If you are comfortable stereotyping ~6 millions people based on what you've heard in the media great. I haven't taken the time to speak with many Trump supporters personally and wouldn't jump to that conclusion but assuming they are racist and evil makes for a great narrative.

Edit:for example the gay black Trump support on Samantha Bee.I think it would be great to actually talk to him instead of dismissing him as a racist or a joke.

 

[legacyzero]

I find it incredibly hard to believe that his supporters are unfamiliar with his stance on minorities.

No way in hell will I ever believe that.

It is hard to believe, yeah. I dont mean unfamiliar with his stance, but rather unfamiliar with the minority issue in general.

When you're an elderly evangelical Fox News watchin, ill-informed person like my wife's Grandmother, I find her stance on things rather puzzling.

"Muslims are out to kills us!"

Me: "Grandma, where'd you get that information from?"

"Fox!"

Me: "Ugh.. Ok, let's talk this through"

LOL. It takes a while.

 

[Melkezadek]

Not as a minority, but as a member of the lower (middle) class, Clinton and the establishment have done nothing but disenfranchise people like me in the States.

Well then you have to ask yourself an honest question: Which means more to you? The platform of the establishment or that platform that is championing the persecution of minorities for simply being a minority?

I am also a memember of the lower middle class, and the answer is a no brainer to me. A Trump presidency will also ensure that we would never see the vision that Sanders hoped to achieve in his campaign. Even he isn't that short sighted.

It is hard to believe, yeah. I dont mean unfamiliar with his stance, but rather unfamiliar with the minority issue in general.

When you're an elderly evangelical Fox News watchin, ill-informed person like my wife's Grandmother, I find her stance on things rather puzzling.

"Muslims are out to kills us!"

Me: "Grandma, where'd you get that information from?"

"Fox!"

Me: "Ugh.. Ok, let's talk this through"

LOL. It takes a while.

Curious. Did she actually change her mind?

 

[legacyzero]

Curious. Did she actually change her mind?

That's a WIP lol

I'm not giving up, dammit

 

[Melkezadek]

That's a WIP lol

I'm not giving up, dammit

Doesn't exactly instill me with hope. I find that people will latch onto anything negative about a person or people if they already have prejudices against them - even if they are flat out untrue.

I fear you might be fighting a losing battle, but I respect you for trying.

 

[Azzanadra]

Well then you have to ask yourself an honest question: Which means more to you? The platform of the establishment or that platform that is championing the persecution of minorities for simply being a minority?

I am also a memember of the lower middle class, and the answer is a no brainer to me. A Trump presidency will also ensure that we would never see the vision that Sanders hoped to achieve in his campaign. Even he isn't that short sighted.



Curious. Did she actually change her mind?

Why pick either? I have said this many times, I will say it again: a vote is an endorsement, a confiding of confidence in the candidate of choice. I don't take the act of voting so lightly, but I understand in politics you have to compromise - even with Bernie I am compromising a little- but like I said, Hillary is past that threshold I have Its simply too much.. Its like I betraying myself, my principles, my very existence and the qualities that define who I am. I can either vote for my invalidation and disfranchisement while the 1% thrive, or I can have that AND racial discrimination. They both flat out suck, and I can't endorse either of these disgusting ways of life. Therefore, I cannot vote for either Trump or Clinton.

Clinton especially hurts me because the Republicans are the known evil, but Clinton is part of the supposed "progressive" party. We know Trump is evil, but this betrayal of progressive values from a democrat just hurts. Much like being betrayed by a family members as opposed to your arch-enemy. Like she stabbed me with a knife, twisted it, and said I should still vote for her because Trump would twist it harder.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The platform of the Democratic establishment is still for health care reform, increased minimum wages, social safety nets, and against things like systematic disenfranchisement through ID laws...

The establishment and being blanket against the nebulous term as a both sides the same argument is one of the more ridiculous outcomes of this primary.

 

[SheSaidNo]

Yes we can say you aren't for the cause. Not voting Democratic is voting AGAINST the minority and LGBT community. There is only one major political party whose goal isn't to fuck over gay people or minorities. And not voting for them is not doing what you can to help them. If you have any sympathy for their struggle there is only one single option in presidential elections and it shouldn't even be something you need to debate or question if you actually care about this communities like you claim to.

If you live in a swing state and don't vote Democrat it is very safe to say not many African Americans or LGBT people would be very happy with that decision you made as it fucks them over.

You do know that you are more likely to meet a minority who hasn't voted or voted republican during an election than one who voted democrat right? Would you say more than half of minorities fuck themselves over?

 

[royalan]

I've said this every election since I've been eligible to vote, and it's still applicable here:

Feel free to not vote all you want. That's your right. But you do not have the right to have your perceived self-righteousness for not voting confirmed or entertained by me or anyone else.

Go pat yourself on the back in a corner somewhere, and take your excuses with you. Because you won't like what I have to say.

 

[Melkezadek]

Clinton especially hurts me because the Republicans are the known evil, but Clinton is part of the supposed "progressive" party. We know Trump is evil, but this betrayal of progressive values from a democrat just hurts. Much like being betrayed by a family members as opposed to your arch-enemy. Like she stabbed me with a knife, twisted it, and said I should still vote for her because Trump would twist it harder.

I don't mean to downplay your feelings, but you are really taking Clinton's political establishment ties personally. Clinton isn't running a campaign against your very existence. Do you understand how dehumanzing it is to have sit and watch a candidate gain large support from the people with talks of violence against minorities? That I don't deserve a good life simply because the color of my skin or place of origin? Do you know what it's like to have to pull my 2 year old out of daycare because you suspect neglect from one of the teachers who just happens to be a Trump supporter?

You are making a choice whether you accept that weight of it or not. You have decided that your anti establishment values are more important that racial persecution. That is your right, but please forgive me if I don't respect that at all.

 

[God Dayumm]

Please Bernie bros, vote. For anyone but VOTE. Because people died for that right and every time an American votes the British royalty gets mad salty. Vote for Hillary, write in Bernie, vote for Stein, anyone is better than the hag at Windsor.

Do it for the people that were brutalized in conquest and didn't have a say back then. Long live democracy

VOTE

 

[Azzanadra]

I don't mean to downplay your feelings, but you are really taking Clinton's political establishment ties personally. Clinton isn't running a campaign against your very existence. Do you understand how dehumanzing it is to have sit and watch a candidate gain large support from the people with talks of violence against minorities? That I don't deserve a good life simply because the color of my skin or place of origin? Do you know what it's like to have to pull my 2 year old out of daycare because you suspect neglect from one of the teachers who just happens to be a Trump supporter?

You are making a choice whether you accept that weight of it or not. You have decided that your anti establishment values are more important that racial persecution. That is your right, but please forgive me if I don't respect that at all.

No, you're right. I apologize if I seemed rash or insensitive to your issues, seeing as we do come from similar backgrounds. That said, I just can't do it, most times in my life I had prided myself on pragmatism when it was needed, but with this I almost feel trapped- with Clinton, we are still trapped in that cycle. The same cycle that allowed Trump to ascend in the first place.

I do hope Clinton wins in the general. I do. Someone's going to win and I rather it be her. And I would be still exercising a right to vote, just not for either of those candidates. I know write ins are looked at as jokes, but that's honestly what I would do. Blind idealism? Maybe, but it a question of self-worth and integrity at this point.

 

[Anoregon]

You do know that you are more likely to meet a minority who hasn't voted or voted republican during an election than one who voted democrat right? Would you say more than half of minorities fuck themselves over?

Yes? Poor white people do it all the time.

 

[Htown]

That's a WIP lol

I'm not giving up, dammit

lemme know how that goes

the biggest problem is that facts don't change anything, because Fox News has managed to cultivate an audience that honestly believes that any facts or pieces of evidence that don't come from Fox News (or some other conservative place like Drudge) are untrustworthy, because the "liberal media" is out to get conservatives. If you figure out something that somebody that far down the Fox News hole will actually believe, let the rest of us know.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

I feel like everyone who's willing to throw their vote away must be made, right? And you're willing to risk a Trump presidency because your life wouldn't really change that much?

I think I'm fairly lucky. I'm not buried in student or any kind of debt, I'm well into my career, I don't have to worry about healthcare and I'm not being disproportionately incarcerated or shot dead by cops because of my race. So, honestly, my life probably wouldn't change that much under a GOP president. But I don't want to see people in the opposite situation struggle out of some sense of pride for four or, god fucking forbid, eight years. The notion that we let Trump win so we can feel smart predicting the complete disaster that would result is nuts. The fantasy that it will destroy the GOP establishment and usher in an era of strong progressiveness is just that: a fantasy.

 

[exmachina64]

Why pick either? I have said this many times, I will say it again: a vote is an endorsement, a confiding of confidence in the candidate of choice. I don't take the act of voting so lightly, but I understand in politics you have to compromise - even with Bernie I am compromising a little- but like I said, Hillary is past that threshold I have Its simply too much.. Its like I betraying myself, my principles, my very existence and the qualities that define who I am. I can either vote for my invalidation and disfranchisement while the 1% thrive, or I can have that AND racial discrimination. They both flat out suck, and I can't endorse either of these disgusting ways of life. Therefore, I cannot vote for either Trump or Clinton.

Clinton especially hurts me because the Republicans are the known evil, but Clinton is part of the supposed "progressive" party. We know Trump is evil, but this betrayal of progressive values from a democrat just hurts. Much like being betrayed by a family members as opposed to your arch-enemy. Like she stabbed me with a knife, twisted it, and said I should still vote for her because Trump would twist it harder.

No, you're right. I apologize if I seemed rash or insensitive to your issues, seeing as we do come from similar backgrounds. That said, I just can't do it, most times in my life I had prided myself on pragmatism when it was needed, but with this I almost feel trapped- with Clinton, we are still trapped in that cycle. The same cycle that allowed Trump to ascend in the first place.

I do hope Clinton wins in the general. I do. Someone's going to win and I rather it be her. And I would be still exercising a right to vote, just not for either of those candidates. I know write ins are looked at as jokes, but that's honestly what I would do. Blind idealism? Maybe, but it a question of self-worth and integrity at this point.

Are you trolling the fuck out of us? You live in Canada.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198440477&postcount=3886

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198440651&postcount=3917

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198441065&postcount=3990

Therefore, I cannot vote for either Trump or Clinton.

You can't vote for them anyway.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Jesus.

 

[Melkezadek]

Are you trolling the fuck out of us? You live in Canada.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198440477&postcount=3886

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198440651&postcount=3917

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198441065&postcount=3990



You can't vote for them anyway.

Wow. I hope there is an actual explanation for this as I do not want to jump the gun.

If true, it just proves that a lot of people who take the "no vote " stance, really have nothing to lose.

 

[Azzanadra]

Are you trolling the fuck out of us? You live in Canada.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198440477&postcount=3886

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198440651&postcount=3917

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198441065&postcount=3990



You can't vote for them anyway.

I was speaking in a hypothetical sense, hence some of the tense use there, e.g "And I would be still exercising a right to vote, just not for either of those candidates" as opposed to "I will be". I thought my nationality was a known factor at this point considering how much I have posted in this thread?

Though to be fair, living right up here, whatever you guys do there really does impact us. And the rest of the civilized world- scratch that- the world in general.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I was speaking in a hypothetical sense

C'mon.

 

[Melkezadek]

I was speaking in a hypothetical sense, hence some of the tense use there, e.g "And I would be still exercising a right to vote, just not for either of those candidates" as opposed to "I will be". I thought my nationality was a known factor at this point considering how much I have posted in this thread?

Though to be fair, living right up here, whatever you guys do there really does impact us. And the rest of the civilized world.

Are you seious man? You talk about taking a risk with voting Bernie Sanders. How betrayed you feel by Clinton? How she hurts you? Disenfranchising you in the states?

Was that all hypothetical?

 

[NeoXChaos]

Are you trolling the fuck out of us? You live in Canada.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198440477&postcount=3886

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198440651&postcount=3917

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198441065&postcount=3990



You can't vote for them anyway.

Detective GAF strikes again.

 

[exmachina64]

I was speaking in a hypothetical sense, hence some of the tense use there, e.g "And I would be still exercising a right to vote, just not for either of those candidates" as opposed to "I will be". I thought my nationality was a known factor at this point considering how much I have posted in this thread?

Though to be fair, living right up here, whatever you guys do there really does impact us. And the rest of the civilized world- scratch that- the world in general.

Between this and your other posts, you use we to mean progressives/Americans/Canadians interchangeably.

You don't live under racial discrimination in the U.S. and you don't really have any reason to harbor such personal hatred of Trump and Clinton. Presumably, you voted for Trudeau in your most recent elections and are fortunate to live somewhere with a fantastic government.

 

[Azzanadra]

Detective GAF strikes again.

DetectiveGAF would be if they stalked by Facebook profile or something, whereas I have admitted, quite loudly, my nationality in this very thread multiple times.

Are you seious man? You talk about taking a risk with voting Bernie Sanders. How betrayed you feel by Clinton? How she hurts you? Disenfranchising you in the states?

Was that all hypothetical?

Well last I checked leftism isn't limited by country, many Canadians have strong feelings about American politics- and being what will soon be the most powerful person on earth, I think I have a lot of reason to have a strong opinion on the next president of the USA. Heck, I remember my school forced us to watch Obama's swearing in LIVE... we didn't even know about Harper's throne speech.

 

[TyrantII]

I don't see how anyone progressively minded would not see at Clinton-Trudeau NA alliance as a bad thing.

Anyone that lived through Bush-Harper.

 

[Melkezadek]

DetectiveGAF would be if they stalked by Facebook profile or something, whereas I have admitted, quite loudly, my nationality in this very thread multiple times.

Clinton especially hurts me because the Republicans are the known evil, but Clinton is part of the supposed "progressive" party. We know Trump is evil, but this betrayal of progressive values from a democrat just hurts. Much like being betrayed by a family members as opposed to your arch-enemy. Like she stabbed me with a knife, twisted it, and said I should still vote for her because Trump would twist it harder.

I do hope Clinton wins in the general. I do. Someone's going to win and I rather it be her. And I would be still exercising a right to vote, just not for either of those candidates. I know write ins are looked at as jokes, but that's honestly what I would do. Blind idealism? Maybe, but it a question of self-worth and integrity at this point.

So who will you be voting for?

 

[Future]

1. The lot of you are crying about how you can't vote for a politician who doesn't truly represent you. Boo fucking hoo, minorities, LGBT, and women have had to deal with that for decades. There is a political party that is actively trying to fuck their lives up in so many ways. They never get a politician who that truly represents them but you don't see them saying "Fuck the system lololol, I'll vote republican for the lulz!" They still vote for the closest politican they can find.

You don't worry about that because you're a white male, and because of such the policies the right will enact will affect you much less than the non white groups of America. It's white privilege to be able to vote for a repressive party because you didn't get your way. The rest of us don't have such a luxury. We have to vote for whoever is trying to fuck us over the least. Many upon many Americans stand to loss much with Trump/Cruz in office. They stand to lose insurance via ACA, which probably doesn't affect you because you have a decent paying job that provides adequate insurance. LGBT stand to lose the right to get married, again this doesn't bother/concern you because you're a straight white male, you've been able to get married since this country's inception.

2. With number one stated, it's clear that none of you actually ever gave a fuck about Bernie's platform and what he stands for because if you did then you'd have long realized how selfish and arrogant to vote against what he stands for. Hillary is corporate yes but even Bernie himself has acknowledged on more than one occasion that they both have the same goals in mind in regards to making America a place more tolerable for those who didn't hit the genetic lottery to be born middle class, white, and male. Bernie Sanders himself will vote this election and I can promise you he'll vote for Hillary.

Bernie's policies and platform were never the reason you people were voting for him. You were voting for him because most of you are to put it bluntly...fucking hipsters and Bernie Sanders/Feel the Bernie was the newest fad that you jumped on to show all your twitter/Facebook friends that you're "socially woke" and to pretend that you give a damn about the country or the people. It was an shallow act, and now that Bernie has lost you've dropped the fad and are on to the next one. You people heard the buzzword "anti-establishment" and jumped on the hype train, went to your social networks and blogs and posted links and articles about the sad state of America telling your friends to "wake up" like you were this social justice warrior but the entire thing was a damn act. You never gave a damn about the state of America or how it's people are being treated, and I mean ha why should you? It would barely affect you in the end. You're not poor, you're not LGBT, you're not a minority. At most you'll lose a dollar or two because of tax but hey life is still good.

Then when Trump/Cruz is elected and the put some ridiculously conservative judges on the SCOTUS and rollback all the progress America made, you'll sit in your ivory tower of white privilege and go "If only you people voted for Bernie! we could have avoided this!" Not once realizing that you directly contributed to the shit state of affairs when you decided to pout that your politician didn't get elected.

It's like you people don't understand a thing about politics, politics is all about compromising, even voters have to compromise. I personally would like the next 5 Presidents to be socially progressive minorities but I can't get that, but I am presented a politician who while I don't agree with all of her stances on things, she's the closest thing I've got to my ideal politician, and she's also the one who will fuck over us non white males the least and at the very least protect some of the laws that keep us safe and rollback others that hurt us. And that's the crux, you weren't "added" as a clause to be considered equal or worth protecting. We were and we'd like to see the clauses stay as they are and not eroded or removed completely because a segment of America deems us to be lessers.

But hey, take your ball and pout. That's the privilege granted to you. It must be nice.

One of the best posts in this thread

 

[uncelestial]

That said, don't you dare look a racial minority in the eye and tell us you give a shit about us, because you've just shown that's a load of bullshit.

Are you sure? Because I think there are probably less problematic third-party candidates that will be running on that front.

 

[Koodo]

Not as a minority, but as a member of the lower (middle) class, Clinton and the establishment have done nothing but disenfranchise people like me in the States.

It's funny that you briefly called yourself a "minority" by virtue of being lower class before backpedalling, since it highlights an utter ignorance towards the treatment of actual minority lower classes – whom are severely disadvantaged compared to white lower classes.

Even in your hypothetical where Clinton and Trump are both ravaging the lower classes equally (a farfetheched hypothetical at that), the minority segment would come out severely more damaged by the latter's regimen of bigotry.

White privilege must truly be a treat.

 

[Azzanadra]

So who will you be voting for?

C'mon, you're just mocking me at this point. I deserve it too, I should have been more transparent. (though I thought you knew based on how active I have been in this thread, and how many times I have outright said I am Canadian?)

It's funny that you briefly called yourself a "minority" by virtue of being lower class before backpedalling, since it highlights an utter ignorance towards the treatment of actual minority lower classes – whom are severely disadvantaged compared to white lower classes.

Even in your hypothetical where Clinton and Trump are both ravaging the lower classes equally (a farfetheched hypothetical at that), the minority segment would come out severely more damaged by the latter's regimen of bigotry.

White privilege must truly be a treat.

But I am not white. I am too, a minority.

Trudeau is part of the "establishment" so I doubt Azzanadra is a fan.

But our establishment would be filthy commie scum by American standards, they are alright, and I did vote for Trudeau.

 

[Pedrito]

Between this and your other posts, you use we to mean progressives/Americans/Canadians interchangeably.

You don't live under racial discrimination in the U.S. and you don't really have any reason to harbor such personal hatred of Trump and Clinton. Presumably, you voted for Trudeau in your most recent elections and are fortunate to live somewhere with a fantastic government.

Trudeau is part of the "establishment" so I doubt Azzanadra is a fan.

 

[RustyNails]

Like she stabbed me with a knife, twisted it, and said I should still vote for her because Trump would twist it harder.

This is the weirdest occurrence I've seen this election; people outright creating fantasies about how Hillary Clinton is this total neocon, conservative Thatcher bitch trying to destroy middle class with her fake smiles and evil..fakery. There is an important point to be made here: Kool-aid drinking Republicans are made fun of on this board and elsewhere for living in their trickle-down fantasy land. But suddenly the liberals have their own yarn of deceit and a well spun novella of high fantasy and fanfiction. It's being distilled as our very own liberal Kool-aid. If you drink it, Hillary is somehow equally if not worse than Trump and this poor 1% Boy King Sanders is the only hero in the story. Since he is vanquished, the chicanery and deceit of Hillary keeps growing and growing and the only way to stop it is to not vote.

Others have already mentioned but it's probably worth repeating that Hillary's record is to the left of Obama, and Sanders-Hillary voted the same 93% of the time. But that inconvenient truth gets in the way of this emotionally coddling fantasy tale of an evil Clinton empress that's wanting to twist the knife in your back and tell you to vote for her or else...!

 

[Melkezadek]

C'mon, you're just mocking me at this point. I deserve it too, I should have been more transparent. (though I thought you knew based on how active I have been in this thread, and how many times I have outright said I am Canadian?)

I don't stalk all your posts and read everything you say. You engaged me in conversation, so I engaged you.

You have shown me respect, however. I won't keep going at it.

Please understand, though. For me, personally, this election has removed the scales from my eyes. I always raised to believe that most people, regardless of negative stereotypes, were good, decent people. Understand that I live in Tennessee, a red state. Most people who I'm surrounded by are Republican. The stereotype is that most Republicans are racist or apathetic goons. While I still believe that most aren't, it's hard to ignore that many...many are. I have to walk in places like Walmart or the bank, and realize there is a good chance that many of the people there are Trump supporters and either don't give a fuck about me, or wish that I was somewhere else. I have people making judgement of my son, because without seeing me, they might assume he's Arab or Mexican - and given are emboldened his supporters have become, I fear for his safety. These are real fears of mine and I do take them very personal. My family is everything to me. They shouldn't have to face persecution because of the color of their skin.

It's heartbreaking. I apologize if I came off as harsh to you.

 

[Game Guru]

If there is one thing that you can count on Democrats for, it's to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I mean... Just look at the Republicans!

I mean, seriously, look at them. Their party is being torn apart between the Establishment and the Anti-Establishment Factions. Over on the Republican side, there is talk of denying both Trump and Cruz the nomination and putting some Republican Establishment suit as the nominee, subverting the will of the Republicans' voter base. There is actual talk of a brokered convention, which is possible if neither Trump or Cruz gets enough delegates. And even if Trump gets enough delegates to get the nomination, the Republicans might run a third-party Establishment candidate against Trump. And Trump is just crazy enough that he could run third-party if he is denied the nomination. The United States could end up not having a Republican Party by the end of this election. This is an actual, possible future!

If Hillary Clinton still cannot win the Presidential Election with how divided and divisive the Republican Party has become, then the United States deserves President Trump. Meanwhile, I will be assuring that every person I vote for the general will have a D beside their name, even if I have to write in my own name just to choose a Democrat.

 

[Pryce]

Elizabeth Forma will be in her mid-seventies in 8 years. Her state is solid blue. She'd make it a two old white women ticket. She's one of the worst picks floated.

This is an older post, but yeah. Warren as VP would be a terrible pick in terms of actual productivity (she needs to stay in the Senate) and well, just a bad ticket. Two old white women (to be frank here) is not how you win in 2016.

 

[royalan]

This is the weirdest occurrence I've seen this election; people outright creating fantasies about how Hillary Clinton is this total neocon, conservative Thatcher bitch trying to destroy middle class with her fake smiles and evil..fakery. There is an important point to be made here: Kool-aid drinking Republicans are made fun of on this board and elsewhere for living in their trickle-down fantasy land. But suddenly the liberals have their own yarn of deceit and a well spun novella of high fantasy and fanfiction. It's being distilled as our very own liberal Kool-aid. If you drink it, Hillary is somehow equally if not worse than Trump and this poor 1% Boy King Sanders is the only hero in the story. Since he is vanquished, the chicanery and deceit of Hillary keeps growing and growing and the only way to stop it is to not vote.

Others have already mentioned but it's probably worth repeating that Hillary's record is to the left of Obama, and Sanders-Hillary voted the same 93% of the time. But that inconvenient truth gets in the way of this emotionally coddling fantasy tale of an evil Clinton empress that's wanting to twist the knife in your back and tell you to vote for her or else...!

Fucking THANK YOU

I think the most frustrating thing about this primary is that there is a group of people who claim to be on the far left who are so dead set on just hating Hillary Clinton that they've created this monstrous effigy in their minds that doesn't even come close to resembling the real thing. And the sad thing is all it would take is a quick trip to everyone's homegirl Google to find out what Hillary Clinton actually stands for, her voting record, the causes she's championed, etc. But no, to do that would tear down this image of her that they have in their minds and that they desperately want to hold onto.

Trust, when it comes to Hillary Clinton there are PLENTY of legitimate things to criticize without likening her to Satan himself. Hillary's been on the main stage of politics for decades, scrutinized within an inch of her life. It's all out there. Not even her most ardent supporters would say she's perfect. But come on...

 

[equippedwithtowel]

But our establishment would be filthy commie scum by American standards, they are alright, and I did vote for Trudeau.

We have an actual social democrat party. You voted for a neoliberal no less progressive then Hillary (less hawkish I suppose but Canada and US foreign policy isn't directly comparable)

So enjoy you utterly empty self congratulation

 

[AphelionXII]

You might as well have added that she's a US citizen and as such comes from a lineage that supported slavery at one point or that she likes peanut butter or something.

Did you know that Trump's ancestor changed his name from Drumpf, clearly that's reason enough to not vote for Trump!

(and I know I'm going to sound like a completely average racist when I say this.) I hate all the candidates equally. And if Bernie wins the candidacy I will vote for him. Refusal of participation isn't any more short sighted than voting for Hillary imho.

 

[KonradLaw]

Not claiming this is an original thought, but as Clinton has made further strides to securing the nomination over the past week, this has become an increasingly bigger issue among progressives.

Recent poll: "33% of Bernie supporters say they won't vote for Clinton."

This shit isn't funny anymore. We are just about 6 months away from this thing.

Aren;t a lot of Bernie supporters simply anti-establisment? After he's gone Trump is the next best thing

 

[Oriel]

Hillary is not entitled to anyone's vote.

Right now I'm leaning towards not voting at all. Won't vote for Hillary, I refuse to vote for Loebsack after he sided with the GOP to block the refugees, and the Iowa Senate race is essentially irrelevant as Grassley is an immortal invincible vampire.

It was precisely this sort of attitude that allowed Bush to win in 2000.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Aren;t a lot of Bernie supporters simply anti-establisment? After he's gone Trump is the next best thing

Going from Sanders to Trump is such a 180, I don't even know what is going through the heads of those people.

 

[NIGHT-]

So now it has become "either vote for Hilary or you are a racist".

America, everybody.

Yea it's pathetic

 

[NIGHT-]

No, Trump supporters are either racist or apathetic to the racist rhetoric that he's been spewing since the inception of his campaign.

I don't see how that is any better.

Actually, it's been reported that a lot of his supporters don't like a lot of the things he says, but agree that he's the one that'll fix the economy.

 

[Special C]

I hate the word Progressive. It sounds so pretentious. Hey guys im progressive, which means everyone who disagrees with my views is a stupid neanderthal.

 

[tcrunch]

Someone told me this the other day and I informed them that not voting is basically voting for the Republican nominee, as Democratic voters may start out less engaged than Republican voters (due to various circumstances including the new Voter ID laws that exist specifically to keep Democrats from voting) so we always have an "engagement gap" to cover. Resolved his opinion right quick.

 

[Melkezadek]

Actually, it's been reported that a lot of his supporters don't like a lot of the things he says, but agree that he's the one that'll fix the economy.

Sounds very familar...where have we heard that before?

Fuck 'em. Apathy doesn't impress me. The man is inciting violence against minorities. If that doesn't turn you off enough to not vote for him, you are a terrible human being. I don't care if he promises to cure cancer.