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[The Artisan]

i kinda wanted to avatar quote you but that would've been seen as bad taste =(

 

[King Gilga]

They are both problematic but one is clearly worse.

The Spoony Hou and King Gilga have been asked this question and they conveniently ignored it. Not brave enough to express their true feelings... although, The Spoony Hou did drop that "race wars" nonsense on us.

A) Because it's impossible, unless the creator the character comes out and says or anymore than That's like asking me what they should do to prove these Inklings are indian. Unless they state it somewhere or dress them up in something stereotypical it's impossible.

B) I never said they couldn't be black, they could be any dark skinned race/ethnicity/whatever black included. My only problem was matter of factedly stating that they were black like it was the only option and other dark skinned people don't exist. These ambiguously brown characters are to be shared among all dark skinned people.

 

[Kebiinu]

But, that's not me. I see them as black as much as other brown ethnic groups. The white-person-with-tan thing is indeed bullshit. I was against that shit with Lee and Clementine in TWD and in other instances where people pull that crap to be dismissive.

There are two groups here: ones who genuinely see Inklings as widely representative PoC for many minoroties, and others who are using the "lol they're not black" argument to take something away from you as a black person. You're erroneously combining the two into the same malicious group.

Mmm. Alright.

I've been in this topic too long, and I may have lumped you in with the wrong side. I was heated, but your responses show me you're not the guy I pictured you as. My bad for antagonizing you, it wasn't deserved.

I'm just glad PoC are getting representation. Honestly.

 

[Izuna]

A) Because it's impossible, unless the creator the character comes out and says or anymore than That's like asking me what they should do to prove these Inklings are indian. Unless they state it somewhere or dress them up in something stereotypical it's impossible.

B) I never said they couldn't be black, they could be any dark skinned race/ethnicity/whatever black included. My only problem was matter of factedly stating that they were black like it was the only option and other dark skinned people don't exist. These ambiguously brown characters are to be shared among all dark skinned people.

I think I can get to the bottom of this

Would you hate it if someone called you black?

 

[Mega]

I think I can get to the bottom of this

Would you hate it if someone called you black?

Know you're not asking me, but no. I've been called a dozen different things (nationalities, ethnicities) and it never bothers me.

Mmm. Alright.

I've been in this topic too long, and I may have lumped you in with the wrong side. I was heated, but your responses show me you're not the guy I pictured you as. My bad for antagonizing you, it wasn't deserved.

I'm just glad PoC are getting representation. Honestly.

Same. Gerudo City in BOTW was the best. I want a Ganondorf (as the Gerudo Prince) game some day.

 

[The Artisan]

I think I can get to the bottom of this

Would you hate it if someone called you black?

i'm brown too and if someone called me black I wouldn't hate it but going by semantics these days they would be wrong. and, i don't think an actual black person would appreciate me considered to be black let alone someone calling me that.

 

[Izuna]

i'm brown too and if someone called me black I wouldn't hate it but going by semantics these days they would be wrong. and, i don't think an actual black person would appreciate me considered to be black let alone someone calling me that.

They wouldn't give a shit, most likely

 

[King Gilga]

I think I can get to the bottom of this

Would you hate it if someone called you black?

No, more like confused, it'd be like if someone called me white.

If someone told me 'you're not brown.' Then I would hate it, because that's my identity.

All my custom RPG characters are brown and quite a few of them skew towards me considering them black if that helps answer anything, though I don't make characters with race/ethnicity in mind, just brown skin.

That said I might have been too aggressive in my posts in this thread, I felt offended that in someway that non-black brown people had been ignored. Maybe that was hypersensitive of me.

 

[Enzom21]

A) Because it's impossible, unless the creator the character comes out and says or anymore than That's like asking me what they should do to prove these Inklings are indian. Unless they state it somewhere or dress them up in something stereotypical it's impossible.

B) I never said they couldn't be black, they could be any dark skinned race/ethnicity/whatever black included. My only problem was matter of factedly stating that they were black like it was the only option and other dark skinned people don't exist. These ambiguously brown characters are to be shared among all dark skinned people.

I don't think you're being honest here. If they had been given curly or kinky hair would you still be in here complaining that black people are stealing all of the dark Inklings?

i'm brown too and if someone called me black I wouldn't hate it but going by semantics these days they would be wrong. and, i don't think an actual black person would appreciate me considered to be black let alone someone calling me that.

I can assure you it wouldn't bother black people. Why do you think it would bother us at all? I have a feeling this has something to do with your confusion about not being able to say nigga.

 

[The Artisan]

No, more like confused, it'd be like if someone called me white.

If someone told me 'you're not brown.' Then I would hate it, because that's my identity.

All my custom RPG characters are brown and quite a few of them skew towards me considering them black if that helps answer anything, though I don't make characters with race/ethnicity in mind, just brown skin.

That said I might have been too aggressive in my posts in this thread, I felt offended that in someway that non-black brown people had been ignored. Maybe that was hypersensitive of me.

come on, i would be even MORE confused if someone called me white!

 

[Koppai]

I remember when Nintendo added skin color choices to Pokémon Battle Revolution's western release. It was a welcome change when they allowed it in the main Pokémon games too.

 

[The Artisan]

I can assure you it wouldn't bother black people. Why do you think it would bother us at all? I have a feeling this has something to do with your confusion about not being able to say nigga.

i guess just for the simple fact that it's wrong? i mean, if someone really just thought i was because i was dark skinned it might mean they just aren't aware of many other ethnic groups of people..

edit: but when i was a boy, i didn't even distinguish between the two (races). it's only after growing up learning about american history and just human history that i was grasping and developing the thought and concept of race.

 

[King Gilga]

I don't think you're being honest here. If they had been given curly or kinky hair would you still be in here complaining that black people are stealing all of the dark Inklings?

If they'd been given a bindhi and sari would the general consensus still be that they're black?

 

[Izuna]

That said I might have been too aggressive in my posts in this thread, I felt offended that in someway that non-black brown people had been ignored. Maybe that was hypersensitive of me.

I think it's just baffling for this come up. Perhaps, and this is admittedly borne of arrogance, that as a PoC (fuck I hate that term) you'd merely appreciate the ability another to see themselves where they couldn't before. Whatever disagreements you'd have, "no, they are based on people like me!", would be far less important to bring up.

I guess, it baffles me because when Obama got elected, for example, it felt like a win for (here it comes) PoC of all flavours. I didn't know he was half-white until the aftermath (as a Brit teen).

While I don't identify as "black" (my big brother is black, and I'm in between him and a pale person), a win for black people feels like a win for all of us.

Your point that this girl could be representing Indians isn't the issue in and of itself, but why is this important to bring up? After all, the point that black people can't "claim" this inkling means no (one last time) PoC can and none of us are winners.

 

[Enzom21]

If they'd been given a bindhi and sari would the general consensus still be that they're black?

Ah the old answer a question with a question dodge tactic.

No one ignored you as a non-black PoC, that was all you because you seem to have some issue with darker skinned characters being called black.
Someone started a thread because they thought the characters were black and that pissed you off enough to come in and complain about it. Just be honest.

Did you even think about what these darker Inklings in Mario Kart were before this thread?

 

[King Gilga]

Whatever disagreements you'd have, "no, they are based on people like me!", would be far less important to bring up.

Your point that this girl could be representing Indians isn't the issue in and of itself, but why is this important to bring up? After all, the point that black people can't "claim" this inkling means no (one last time) PoC can and none of us are winners.

I'm not saying she is representing indians, I'm saying she just as easily would be seen as such if they got some stereotypical aspects. At a base level these squids could represent any dark skinned person.

And I considered Obama a win too, a non white person in the white house, I considered him a win just like I considered the new Canadian minister of national defense a win. Just like I consider the current mayor of london a win.

Someone started a thread because they thought the characters were black and that pissed you off enough to come in and complain about it. Just be honest.

Did you even think about what these darker Inklings in Mario Kart were before this thread?

A) No it was ctrl+fing brown and not getting a single result on the front page apart from someones username that did.

B) I didn't even know they existed so no.

Not that it matters because you've already convinced yourself of whatever narrative you have of me inside your head.

 

[Professor Beef]

Nintendo isn't as stupid or clueless as some of your guys are making them out to be. They are not trying to represent tanning culture or ganguro, regardless of how committed you get to your faux expertise about japanese culture and societal views; those bits of knowledge are blinding you.

i think some of those squids fell into a vat of chocolate, that would explain their color

 

[sooperkool]

I wanna know from the "They aren't black" people in this thread, what would they have to do for you to see them as black? I have no idea how to see that side of the argument. Like, how do they prove they are black Inklings???

Shuck n' jive.

 

[Frozenprince]

Shuck n' jive.

 

[Enzom21]

Not that it matters because you've already convinced yourself of whatever narrative you have of me inside your head.

There is no narrative inside my head, I am only going by what you've posted and what you've conveniently sidestepped in this thread.
I just find it a bit suspicious that as soon as the "it's a tanned white/Japanese person" nonsense stopped, this "why does it have to be a black PoC" narrative started.

I could be wrong about you and everyone else pulling this crap but none of you even gave these Inklings a second thought until someone had the audacity to call them black.

 

[Messofanego]

I'm not saying she is representing indians, I'm saying she just as easily would be seen as such if they got some stereotypical aspects. At a base level these squids could represent any dark skinned person.

And I considered Obama a win too, a non white person in the white house, I considered him a win just like I considered the new Canadian minister of national defense a win. Just like I consider the current mayor of london a win.



A) No it was ctrl+fing brown and not getting a single result on the front page apart from someones username that did.

B) I didn't even know they existed so no.

Not that it matters because you've already convinced yourself of whatever narrative you have of me inside your head.

Hi, King Gilga. Considering you're one of the most frequent posters in this thread:

I'm guessing you've read most of the thread. So how come you didn't realise little-to-no one is saying that these inklings can only be black and any brown skinned person from a different race/ethnicity would be wrong to claim representation?

A few other POC GAFers who aren't black mentioned they would use this skin tone because it represents them, including me.

It was only you who started this baseless assumption from page 9. Not affording any black person the opportunity to identify/represent themselves with this inkling's skin colour. Getting quite aggressive and snippy at anyone who would say the inkling is black.

They're hardly black, ambiguously brown at best.

Why jump straight to black?

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize the world consisted solely of black and white people.

These inklings could be black, or indian, or Hawaiian or anything in between.

They're ambiguously brown at best.

This is not remotely the same thing.

Lucio has obviously black features.

The only difference these guys have from their 'white' counter parts is slightly darker skin.

I mean they could be anything, they're left incredibly ambiguous for that reason. But going straight to the label of 'black' on something that vague is basically telling every other non white skin tone 'fuck off it's ours'. When it's nobodies and could be for every non pale skinned being.

That squid has ambiguously brown skin and could be anything.

I mean africa has non black ethnicities as well.

I don't really get what you're saying in the second part. Black is only skin color to you? Then what about light skinned black people? Do you tell them they're not black? Because that's kind of messed up man.



Could be, could not be.



Google ambiguously brown.

Oh, I didn't realize this poor squid woman identified as black.

My bad.

I didn't know you guys spoke for them.

What? I never said they aren't a PoC.

Just why they're black when they're literally the most ambiguous dark skinned things possible.

It's like as soon as a character with a tiny bit of melanin shows up people forget about every other non white in the world and jump straight to black.



It's not you or your OP's fault for anything.

I knew about the one drop rule as a principle, but I didn't know it was actually a law, and one put in so recently, is it still in effect? That seems insanely fucked up. But my usage of ambiguously brown was in relation to the trope.

It just annoys me that the instant a non white character shows up it's instantly snatched up as black when there is no identifying feature other than having brown skin like most of the rest of the world.

Buy hey, fuck everyone else these are now black squidlings.

As a brown person, who's hung out with brown people all my life in multiple countries never once in my life have I ever seen black used to identify us or our 'culture(s)'.

That's crazy talk.

Black is not an umbrella term for every non white person, PoC is.

You made up a fight all by yourself.

 

[The Artisan]

Hi, King Gilga. Considering you're one of the most frequent posters in this thread:

I'm guessing you've read most of the thread. So how come you didn't realise little-to-no one is saying that these inklings can only be black and any brown skinned person from a different race/ethnicity would be wrong to claim representation?

A few other POC GAFers who aren't black mentioned they would use this skin tone because it represents them, including me.

It was only you who started this baseless assumption from page 9. Not affording any black person the opportunity to identify/represent themselves with this inkling's skin colour. Getting quite aggressive and snippy at anyone who would say the inkling is black.





















You made up a fight all by yourself.

jeez, I didn't even see all of that lol

 

[foxuzamaki]

Nintendo isn't as stupid or clueless as some of your guys are making them out to be. They are not trying to represent tanning culture or ganguro, regardless of how committed you get to your faux expertise about japanese culture and societal views; those bits of knowledge are blinding you.

If those are tans than they must have been in the tanning salon for a good 3....days

 

[foxuzamaki]

Hi, King Gilga. Considering you're one of the most frequent posters in this thread:

I'm guessing you've read most of the thread. So how come you didn't realise little-to-no one is saying that these inklings can only be black and any brown skinned person from a different race/ethnicity would be wrong to claim representation?

A few other POC GAFers who aren't black mentioned they would use this skin tone because it represents them, including me.

It was only you who started this baseless assumption from page 9. Not affording any black person the opportunity to identify/represent themselves with this inkling's skin colour. Getting quite aggressive and snippy at anyone who would say the inkling is black.





















You made up a fight all by yourself.

Smh

 

[Nepenthe]

You know white people won when even other non-white ethnicities are getting mad at black people for having the gall to identify a dark-skinned humanoid cartoon character as black.

 

[Enzom21]

You made up a fight all by yourself.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I mean, most Nintendo characters (aside from in the Mario universe, Metroid, and the animal characters) are probably supposed to be persons of colour as they're generally Japanese, despite some European influence in say, something like Fire Emblem. As for the Inklings, pretty sure they're all supposed to be Japanese, so those Inklings would be a darker Japanese.

Elma is definitely not black

Spoiler

because she's an alien, and besides, she has blue eyes. She's ambiguously anime/Japanese, though she represent the US in the game so perhaps she's supposed to be white with a tan. Who knows

Don't play a Nintendo game exclusively if you want to identify racially with someone, unless you're Japanese (or in some cases like Mario or Metroid, you are White). They're not Overwatch. Nintendo focuses on cartoony characters of relatively ambiguous ethnicity, anime characters who are supposed to be Japanese even if they don't look it, and animals. You're wasting your time assuming things OP.

She's not black because she has blue eyes and is an alien but she's ambiguiously anime/Japanese who represents America? wha?

The mental gymnastics on display could give Simone Biles a run for her money at the Olympics


Also

Soooo I guess she can be black?

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

What I don't understand is how some people are focusing too much in "the representation must be wanted to count".

Like Birdetta and Poison are pratically trans representation by accident =P
They were not made with good intention towards trans people.... but it is awesome that we have them and people can see represented in them !

And no, having one "main" character and a few of footnotes count as the company not caring because holy shit is the bar THAT low ?

Nintendo history shows that they do not see the inkling as black people.
No, that does not matter in the grand scheme of things since people who need that representation will not know/care about this.

It is almost the "any representation is better than no representation" vs "bad representation is worst than no representation" argument

What a load of pooey lol

 

[Pancake Mix]

She's not black because she has blue eyes

Spoiler

and is an alien

but she's ambiguiously anime/Japanese who represents America? wha?

I feel bad for anyone who read this thread (god forbid) and ever had any interest in the story of Xenoblade Chronicles X.

Enjoy your four-dimensional chess.

 

[Professor Beef]

I feel bad for anyone who read this thread (god forbid) and ever had any interest in the story of Xenoblade Chronicles X.

Enjoy your four-dimensional chess.

God forbid someone sees this thread and questions why people like you care about spoilers instead of a person of color.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I feel bad for anyone who read this thread (god forbid) and ever had any interest in the story of Xenoblade Chronicles X.

Enjoy your four-dimensional chess.

They're your damn words, just because you realize how utterly fucking dumb you sounded doesn't make it some crazy mind game. Besides you're the one who spoiled in the first place in some shit ass attempt at "gotcha".

 

[Frozenprince]

You know white people won when even other non-white ethnicities are getting mad at black people for having the gall to identify a dark-skinned humanoid cartoon character as black.

This shit is exactly what they want. Us all fighting amongst ourselves for the table scraps.

They're your damn words, just because you realize how utterly fucking dumb you sounded doesn't make it some crazy mind game.

Idek why he's getting pissy when he's the one who posted that shit in the first place.

Fourth dimensional chess. Shit ain't that complicated.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I feel bad for anyone who read this thread (god forbid) and ever had any interest in the story of Xenoblade Chronicles X.

Enjoy your four-dimensional chess.

You worried bout the wrong thing

 

[Angelus Errare]

Idek why he's getting pissy when he's the one who posted that shit in the first place.

Fourth dimensional chess. Shit ain't that complicated.

It's crazy, makes argument character can't be black because she has blue eyes. So he is presented with twin black girls with blue eyes and "herp derp, teh spoils 4th checkers!"

 

[pelican]

I think the OP started at A and jumped straight to Z by assuming the characters represent 'black' ethnicity.

Sometimes I sit and wonder why people drag colour in. This is one of those times and there really is no need. Imaginary Cephalopods being used to represent an ethnicity doesn't fit right and I don't understand those saying they will play them due to this representation. Before this thread I never associated the inklings with any race, why would I?

Forced representation is just as bad as none. Life isn't a Benetton advert. Games shouldn't be treated as one.

 

[Nepenthe]

I think the OP started at A and jumped straight to Z by assuming the characters represent 'black' ethnicity.

Sometimes I sit and wonder why people drag colour in. This is one of those times and there really is no need. Imaginary Cephalopods being used to represent an ethnicity doesn't fit right and I don't understand those saying they will play them due to this representation. Before this thread I never associated the inklings with any race, why would I?

Forced representation is just as bad as none. Life isn't a Benetton advert. Games shouldn't be treated as one.

Kindly fuck off with this "forced diversity" shit.

If we can have shitloads upon shitloads of characters who are presumed white for no fucking reason whatsoever, then we can have characters who are presumed black for no fucking reason.

The only thing being forced is gamers' inability to admit they have a goddamn problem empathizing with minorities.

 

[Enzom21]

I think the OP started at A and jumped straight to Z by assuming the characters represent 'black' ethnicity.

Sometimes I sit and wonder why people drag colour in. This is one of those times and there really is no need. Imaginary Cephalopods being used to represent an ethnicity doesn't fit right and I don't understand those saying they will play them due to this representation. Before this thread I never associated the inklings with any race, why would I?

Forced representation is just as bad as none. Life isn't a Benetton advert. Games shouldn't be treated as one.

I too want my gaming white and pure.

 

[AtomskEater]

Forced representation is just as bad as none. Life isn't a Benetton advert. Games shouldn't be treated as one.

What's forced about it?
Life isn't an advert but it is a fact that people come in a wide range of shades and people who are darker shades tend to be passed over and underrepresented in media.
Games are a product with global appeal, can you present a reason why developers shouldn't be open to having more diverse characters?

Like... the whole post is shit but come on dude, it's like you're trying to get bingo here.

I wouldn't be surprised if campaign was entirely American.

One of the nice points about BF1 is multiple nationalities in the SP. I also appreciate the fact that the British troop soundbites in the MP have multiple regional UK accents, not the usual all British = Cockney.

You can appreciate diversity in British accents, but skin color is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

 

[Frozenprince]

I think the OP started at A and jumped straight to Z by assuming the characters represent 'black' ethnicity.

Sometimes I sit and wonder why people drag colour in. This is one of those times and there really is no need. Imaginary Cephalopods being used to represent an ethnicity doesn't fit right and I don't understand those saying they will play them due to this representation. Before this thread I never associated the inklings with any race, why would I?

Forced representation is just as bad as none. Life isn't a Benetton advert. Games shouldn't be treated as one.

You're right.

For people of color life is mostly one long joyless slog full of needless barriers and social castigation.

So.

You can appreciate diversity in British accents, but skin color is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Aaaaaaah

 

[Angelus Errare]

I think the OP started at A and jumped straight to Z by assuming the characters represent 'black' ethnicity.

Sometimes I sit and wonder why people drag colour in. This is one of those times and there really is no need. Imaginary Cephalopods being used to represent an ethnicity doesn't fit right and I don't understand those saying they will play them due to this representation. Before this thread I never associated the inklings with any race, why would I?

Forced representation is just as bad as none. Life isn't a Benetton advert. Games shouldn't be treated as one.

No one is "forcing" you to see them as black/brown/tan or what the fuck ever. Forced representation is bad I agree because I'm tired of being forced to play a white character or is that different somehow? And given white gamers/anime fans propensity for claiming none human/non "earthlings" as white ALL THE FUCKING TIME, why are you people so damn pressed at minorities relating to a handful of characters?

Geralt/The Witcher doesn't take place on earth but that didn't stop a whole bunch of muthafuckas from arguing for 60 pages how the characters are white how the game is made in X country and as such it would be weird to see PoC in the game since in real life there aren't that many PoC in the game developer's region.

This doesn't stop anime fans galore from claiming every single character as "white" when the shows don't take place on "Earth" and even when they take place in Japan.

The OP is sees them as black and is happy with the representation, if you're Hispanic you might see them as such, if you're middle eastern or Indian you might see them as such.

Once again I will say, "white" is the most damn exclusive club in real life, but for some reason when it comes to media representation any and everything is "white" and that's okay but the minute PoC find a character(s) that represent them, suddenly we get dissertation on how it doesn't make sense because they're not humans or "they're not from earth" and how they don't see color and they don't care what color a character is blah blah blah. Gamers constantly say they don't care but then cry like a bunch of whiny entitled bitches when a character isn't a white male always cryin about "forced diversity" and other empty ass words and statements. Talking about "I don't want this <insert none white character here> if they're going to be horribly written", which is complete bullshit because you never hear them levy that argument about the main white character who has about as much depth as 2mm of water.

Like just shut the fuck up and let other people be happy, god fucking damn.

 

[Frozenprince]

This shit is exactly why our hobby is barely considered one step above being grown adults who collect 80's action figures.

And some of y'all wanna say it's "art". This is a "community". Nah it ain't.

 

[Professor Beef]

I think the OP started at A and jumped straight to Z by assuming the characters represent 'black' ethnicity.

Sometimes I sit and wonder why people drag colour in. This is one of those times and there really is no need. Imaginary Cephalopods being used to represent an ethnicity doesn't fit right and I don't understand those saying they will play them due to this representation. Before this thread I never associated the inklings with any race, why would I?

Forced representation is just as bad as none. Life isn't a Benetton advert. Games shouldn't be treated as one.

 

[Mega]

I think the OP started at A and jumped straight to Z by assuming the characters represent 'black' ethnicity.

Sometimes I sit and wonder why people drag colour in. This is one of those times and there really is no need. Imaginary Cephalopods being used to represent an ethnicity doesn't fit right and I don't understand those saying they will play them due to this representation. Before this thread I never associated the inklings with any race, why would I?

Forced representation is just as bad as none. Life isn't a Benetton advert. Games shouldn't be treated as one.

Have you played Splatoon? It's Earth. They're the people of the future, evolving to be near-human after humans went extinct. Inklings are people with different skin tones like their human counterparts.

 

[Frozenprince]

Have you played Splatoon? It's Earth. They're the people of the future, evolving to be near-human after humans went extinct. Inklings are people with different skin tones like their human counterparts.

Ya know o completely forgot about that.

So this whole "argument" was literally pointless.

 

[Bahorel]

I think the OP started at A and jumped straight to Z by assuming the characters represent 'black' ethnicity.

Sometimes I sit and wonder why people drag colour in. This is one of those times and there really is no need. Imaginary Cephalopods being used to represent an ethnicity doesn't fit right and I don't understand those saying they will play them due to this representation. Before this thread I never associated the inklings with any race, why would I?

Forced representation is just as bad as none. Life isn't a Benetton advert. Games shouldn't be treated as one.

"people of color shouldn't be in games! They're squids! They should be white, as anyone rational would expect!"

This is what you sound like bro.

 

[Professor Beef]

I hope there's a squid with the cockney-est fucking accent just for Sizu

is that ok with you, guvna? wot wot tally-ho

 

[Frozenprince]

I hope there's a squid with the cockney-est fucking accent just for Sizu

is that ok with you, guvna

Roit wut wiff u Ave a go innit guvna

 

[Mega]

I hope there's a squid with the cockney-est fucking accent just for Sizu

is that ok with you, guvna? wot wot tally-ho

Like I said, future Earthlings!

 

[Frozenprince]

Like I said, future Earthlings!

Sheeeeeit

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Good god, some of these arguments in the thread.

Im still trying to figure out whats four dimensional chess strategy has to do with one of the arguments.