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[SLoWMoTIoN]

PC being easy or not, or in everyone's home is not really the issue. Most console gamers simply aren't looking to play games on a pc and that's all there is to it. So the whole "xbox has no value because games are also on pc" argument is a very weak criticism. There is some merit to the argument, but not to the scale that would devalue owning an xbox.

The real reason I haven't gone PC is the lack of exclusives, the dependence on Steam and lack of physical media. Also Jim is fucking fat.

 

[MilkyJoe]

come on man, no one is saying you'd do everything on your pc using a tv. I'm sure there's some people that do, there's always an outlier, but his point was that it's fairly easy to play PC games on a tv in front of a couch, and it is.

The cost thing, you know that going in, just like there'll be people arguing you don't need an xbox 1 X because you can play all those games on the XO or the PS4 basic, that you're paying a premium for something you don't need. If you don't want a beast of a pc, if you don't think it's worth it that's fine. And on that note, it sounds like you don't, if you're not going to make use of it no one is forcing you to buy one, if you've already an X1X and are making use of it, it was hardly a bad purchase

Been there, done it, can't be arsed, no time, waste of money, don't want to sit in front of a PC at home, the missus doesn't want all that crap in the living room. There are many reasons. The man being I am not interested, I only need one and the competition doesn't have the exclusives I am interested in.

 

[Thiagosc777]

I've run into literally one major issue running a game. Metal Gear Ground Zeroes

Then you are the exception to PC gamers. The main reason to play games on the PC is the extra performance, and for that you'll need to research components and tweak settings to get the games running with all bells and whistles turned on.

Just playing games on cheap hardware... that's what consoles are for.

 

[JaffeLion]

Obviously if you don't have a PC or don't want to game on PC for whatever reason, then xbox has alot of value to you. Nobody is arguing otherwise...

lol Jim is exactly saying that.

 

[BANGS]

can't be arsed

That's fine, fair enough. You don't have to justify your personal preference by arguing in bad faith against PC. You can just say you don't like it an move on... nobody will argue that you SHOULD like it if you don't...

Then you are the exception to PC gamers. The main reason to play games on the PC is the extra performance

Not true at all. As stated before, the main reason to game on PC is the options. Performance is a plus, and some enthusiasts do play specifically for performance. Most play for options. Choose your controller, your resolution, your mods, etc...

lol Jim is exactly saying that.

Well he is wrong. He owns all platforms so he doesn't know what it's like to be able to choose only one, and if that one cannot be PC for some reason. He's out of touch with those of you who don't like PC gaming but wanna play microsoft games...

 

[Lanrutcon]

The main reason to play games on the PC is the extra performance, and for that you'll need to research components and tweak settings to get the games running with all bells and whistles turned on.

Research components? You mean Google some hardware? like anyone sane does before making a tech purchase?

I swear. You make it sound like a man has to break into the secret library at the Vatican with Tom Hanks to seek forbidden knowledge every time he wants to run The Witcher 3 on a PC.

"No, Tom. I can't just right click the Steam icon and select the game. An Xbox thread on GAF told me so. Now translate this Latin for me so I can learn how to hack the vram on my GPU for 2 extra fps."

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Then you are the exception to PC gamers. The main reason to play games on the PC is the extra performance, and for that you'll need to research components and tweak settings to get the games running with all bells and whistles turned on.

Just playing games on cheap hardware... that's what consoles are for.

Ehhhh or depending on people to fix games that run poorly on pc cause the company did a bad port

 

[Rayderism]

I just like the sarcastic way he says "AAA games".

 

[Thiagosc777]

Research components? You mean Google some hardware? like anyone sane does before making a tech purchase?

In the very least you'll need to look up sites like Tomshardware or Anandtech for benchmarks for the latest GPU models, see what is the best for how much you are willing to spend, do the same for CPUs, read reviews, etc. Then go shopping for the parts you need, etc. That's the "PC experience".

 

[BANGS]

In the very least you'll need to look up sites like Tomshardware or Anandtech for benchmarks for the latest GPU models, see what is the best for how much you are willing to spend, do the same for CPUs, read reviews, etc. Then go shopping for the parts you need, etc. That's the "PC experience".

It's obvious you've never been a PC gamer... or you haven't been one since the 90s/early 2000s...

 

[Hendrick's]

It's obvious you've never been a PC gamer... or you haven't been one since the 90s/early 2000s...

He'e obviously talking about building a gaming PC and not just playing the games. It certainly does take a decent amount of research to determine what GPU/CPU/RAM/MB/HDD/COOLING/CASE combination you want and at least a moderate level of technical aptitude to put it all together. It's second nature for some of us, but by no means anywhere near as user friendly an experience as console. And yes, playing games on PC can sometimes be problematic and there have been times when I have spent hours fiddling with drivers or config files just trying to get a game to run. And even times when the game simply would not work properly at all. That may not be a typical experience, but it still happens.

Sure, you could just buy a pre-built gaming PC and have a mostly seamless experience, but it would still never match that of a console. I am a long time PC gamer, but even I am finding myself less and less motivated to keep playing there, when I can just turn on my console and get a streamlined and predictable experience every time.

 

[BANGS]

He'e obviously talking about building a gaming PC

Oh well if that's the case then that's as simple as spending 5 minutes on https://pcpartpicker.com/ ...It's certainly a hell of alot easier than building your own xbox by comparison...

Sure, you could just buy a pre-built gaming PC and have a mostly seamless experience, but it would still never match that of a console.

I have to disagree on that. It's so incredibly rare to have any issues at all, never mind those that take mere minutes to fix. But I mean, that comes with the territory of a machine that can play almost every game ever created in some form or another... if you stick to regular games, the same ones that are released on consoles, you're gonna have a hard time finding issues installing and running them...

But yes in general, consoles are just overall easier to set up and play on. No question about that, and if that's your preference then more power to ya(literally). But saying that PCs are somehow a "constant headache" or anything else others have implied ITT is just disingenuous.

 

[phil_t98]

He'e obviously talking about building a gaming PC and not just playing the games. It certainly does take a decent amount of research to determine what GPU/CPU/RAM/MB/HDD/COOLING/CASE combination you want and at least a moderate level of technical aptitude to put it all together. It's second nature for some of us, but by no means anywhere near as user friendly an experience as console. And yes, playing games on PC can sometimes be problematic and there have been times when I have spent hours fiddling with drivers or config files just trying to get a game to run. And even times when the game simply would not work properly at all. That may not be a typical experience, but it still happens.

Sure, you could just buy a pre-built gaming PC and have a mostly seamless experience, but it would still never match that of a console. I am a long time PC gamer, but even I am finding myself less and less motivated to keep playing there, when I can just turn on my console and get a streamlined and predictable experience every time.

see this is where consoles win out for me, you buy the thing plug it in and play the game. yes there are updates now and sometimes big updates but its all done with ease. PC's are great and can play games at better resoloution and framerates but at a lot more cost. Not dissing PC gaming but its not for me and there is a lot more hacking/cheating in online pcgames that currant gen games.

 

[phil_t98]

Oh well if that's the case then that's as simple as spending 5 minutes on https://pcpartpicker.com/ ...It's certainly a hell of alot easier than building your own xbox by comparison...

point is you don't build your own xbox though you just buy it as is and plug it in

 

[BANGS]

point is you don't build your own xbox though you just buy it as is and plug it in

Just like a prebuilt PC then... that was the point I was making with that obvious joke lol... you have to compare apples to apples here...

 

[metareferential]

Well, he's right.

I have two xbox one (X sitting on top of the S) just there gathering dust.

 

[bufkus]

The xboxone is just a cheap PC that you hook up to a TV. It's good for budget gamers since not everyone can afford to put together a pimped out gaming PC. In that sense, it doesn't need exclusives.

What MS really needs to do, which I've been saying for years now, is to merge Windows and Xbox. The next Xbox console should just be a Windows 10 console. It can still get traditional disc games but people should be able to load Steam on it and play their existing games.

 

[Hotel Security]

The xboxone is just a cheap PC that you hook up to a TV. It's good for budget gamers since not everyone can afford to put together a pimped out gaming PC. In that sense, it doesn't need exclusives.

Except, "that sense" is total nonsense because no one really sees an Xbox in that way.

But, it's quite clear that exclusives are not as important to them since they put out every exclusive they have on the PC as well. Their business model the last few years has been very unusual.

 

[Elenchus]

He'e obviously talking about building a gaming PC and not just playing the games. It certainly does take a decent amount of research to determine what GPU/CPU/RAM/MB/HDD/COOLING/CASE combination you want and at least a moderate level of technical aptitude to put it all together. It's second nature for some of us, but by no means anywhere near as user friendly an experience as console. And yes, playing games on PC can sometimes be problematic and there have been times when I have spent hours fiddling with drivers or config files just trying to get a game to run. And even times when the game simply would not work properly at all. That may not be a typical experience, but it still happens.

Sure, you could just buy a pre-built gaming PC and have a mostly seamless experience, but it would still never match that of a console. I am a long time PC gamer, but even I am finding myself less and less motivated to keep playing there, when I can just turn on my console and get a streamlined and predictable experience every time.

Exactly. The process of buying a PC is as much a part of the “PC experience” as owning, using, or troubleshooting one. The proposition that a busy parent with a 13 yr old who wants to play Gears 4 will have as an easy a time going to pcpartpicker to research and buy components as they would driving to the Walmart down the street to pick up a console is absurd.

Even if that parent jumps over to Origin’s website to buy a pre-built PC, they still have to have some knowledge of components to determine if they are being overcharged. Despite the diatribe you’ll hear in this thread, the entry price for a decent PC (particularly a prebuilt) tends to be high and that parent would not make a purchase of probably $700-1000 (on the low end) without extensive research (and its irresponsible to advocate that anyone do so frankly).

If I were to explain the PC buying process to that parent and then have you tell them “there is no reason to buy an Xbox because Gears 4 is on PC”, they’d laugh you out of the room. There is a reason Steam machines failed as miserably as they did and if I recall, just about all of those were pre-built right?

Kudos to the PC gamers here who aren’t afraid to speak frankly about the shortcomings (pitchforks be damned). You guys are the real MVPs. For the rest, get a grip.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

I agree with pretty much all of Jim's points, but he's being a little harsh, not taking into account that the One X is a pretty decent console for those that don't want to game on PC for some reason...

Is it really that hard to believe or accept that by and large most people aren't interested in playing console games on a pc? There are people who do, yes, but I believe you and others are still in the minority compared to the overall gaming population/community.

That's great but most people find that redundant...

You find it redundant based on your preferences, but you're painting some really broad strokes, assuming that everyone else shares your preferences/opinions or should share them. I agree, there is no reason for you to buy an xbox because you have clearly made your point again and again, but it's like you keep trying to convince everyone else to be like you, and follow you into pc land.

No, it's bad that people who have a PC have no reason to buy an xbox...

Only people who have a pc, feel comfortable playing games on said pc, and actually want to play games on a pc over a console will agree with you here. This includes you and many others, but still a small segment of the overall gaming population. I feel like the pc master race nonsense is making a comeback. I guess it's unfathomable that someone, anyone, could feel differently.

You guys keep taking valid criticism as complaining. Nobody is complaining that you can play the games on both devices, they are simply saying that there is no reason to buy one device when there's another that does all it can do and more. Are you upset by people who say there's no reason to buy an mp3 player when they already have an iphone? It's the same logic...

No they are saying there are plenty of reasons to have a pc and an xbox, which is actually true. However, you seem more interested in convincing people that they are wrong rather than accepting that not everyone shares your view.

That's fine, fair enough. You don't have to justify your personal preference by arguing in bad faith against PC. You can just say you don't like it an move on... nobody will argue that you SHOULD like it if you don't...

But it feels like this is all that you've been doing in this thread.

 

[Hotel Security]

Exactly. The process of buying a PC is as much a part of the “PC experience” as owning, using, or troubleshooting one. The proposition that a busy parent with a 13 yr old who wants to play Gears 4 will have as an easy a time going to pcpartpicker to research and buy components as they would driving to the Walmart down the street to pick up a console is absurd.

Agreed. Only the guys who play PC games all the time would think that it's just as easy to play on a PC as it is to plug-and-play with a console. I play a few games on PC but it gives me so many headaches at times that I'll always play a console version of a game over a PC version if it's available. Folks who don't use a PC for games all the time will always run into these small issues and it drives them crazy when all they want to do is just sit down and fire up a game.

 

[Elenchus]

Uh. No? Be honest here: when last did you own a gaming pc? Google "Big Picture Mode". It's 2018.



You're dating yourself quite badly here.



We get it: Jim touched your bad place with his terrible, terrible words and you just have to respond. But next time: try repeating "I must not take it personally" to yourself as you type. It might help if you avoid hyperbole and fact check yourself.

How exactly do propose that I navigate to steam after boot up with just a controller? Even if you boot into big picture (which is a hassle to set up and get running properly), you’ll eventually to want to play another game you own outside of steam like like say Witcher 3 or Overwatch. How do I launch those from steam without touching a keyboard again?

Also spare me the juvenile personal insults—unless of course that’s the extent of the discourse of which you are capable.

 

[BANGS]

Is it really that hard to believe or accept that by and large most people aren't interested in playing console games on a pc?

Not at all, everyone has their preferences...

You find it redundant based on your preferences, but you're painting some really broad strokes, assuming that everyone else shares your preferences/opinions or should share them. I agree, there is no reason for you to buy an xbox because you have clearly made your point again and again, but it's like you keep trying to convince everyone else to be like you, and follow you into pc land.

It's redundant in reality, not my preference. I don't care if people follow me at all, and I'm not in PC land. I do more gaming on my Dreamcast than anything, and I love my PS4...

Only people who have a pc, feel comfortable playing games on said pc, and actually want to play games on a pc over a console will agree with you here.

Thank you for clarifying exactly what I just said...

No they are saying there are plenty of reasons to have a pc and an xbox, which is actually true.

Name one other than being able to play with your friends on xbox live, and the 5 or so xbox one exclusives like rare replay...

But it feels like this is all that you've been doing in this thread.

Put aside your fanboyish feeling and just read what I'm writing then. If you have a gaming capable PC, you can play all the same games available on xbox and more. Usually for cheaper. It's that simple. If you don't want to game on PC, you don't have a gaming capable PC, so this wouldn't apply to you. I'm not telling what you should play, I'm just telling you that if you own an iphone, you don't need to buy an mp3 player. Not sure why that bothers anybody...

How exactly do propose that I navigate to steam after boot up with just a controller?

You set steam to automatically boot into big picture mode on startup.

you’ll eventually to want to play another game you own outside of steam like like say Witcher 3 or Overwatch

Witcher 3 is available via steam. Overwatch might be able to be set as boot on startup I'm not sure, you would most likely need a kb+m to launch that. USB wireless keyboards and mouses(mice?) are much cheaper than console controllers. Again, you can say it's your personal preference to avoid such things and that's fair, but you can't claim something as simple as tapping a few buttons on a keyboard is some huge hassle that will ruin your gaming experience. That's just being disingenuous...

 

[Elenchus]

Not at all, everyone has their preferences...


It's redundant in reality, not my preference. I don't care if people follow me at all, and I'm not in PC land. I do more gaming on my Dreamcast than anything, and I love my PS4...


Thank you for clarifying exactly what I just said...


Name one other than being able to play with your friends on xbox live, and the 5 or so xbox one exclusives like rare replay...


Put aside your fanboyish feeling and just read what I'm writing then. If you have a gaming capable PC, you can play all the same games available on xbox and more. Usually for cheaper. It's that simple. If you don't want to game on PC, you don't have a gaming capable PC, so this wouldn't apply to you. I'm not telling what you should play, I'm just telling you that if you own an iphone, you don't need to buy an mp3 player. Not sure why that bothers anybody...


You set steam to automatically boot into big picture mode on startup.


Witcher 3 is available via steam. Overwatch might be able to be set as boot on startup I'm not sure, you would most likely need a kb+m to launch that. USB wireless keyboards and mouses(mice?) are much cheaper than console controllers. Again, you can say it's your personal preference to avoid such things and that's fair, but you can't claim something as simple as tapping a few buttons on a keyboard is some huge hassle that will ruin your gaming experience. That's just being disingenuous...

Never said it was a “huge hassle”. Those are your words and that’s just an exercise of building straw man arguments to attack.

I said the experience is different on PC and I pointed out the need for two input devices as opposed to one as being one of those differences.

I also pointed out that if you want to play a competitive multiplayer game on PC, you’ll be faced with the option of either playing with a wireless keyboard in your lap or using a controller and being at a disadvantage to other PC players using mouse and keyboard.

Do you dispute that to the case?

 

[phil_t98]

Just like a prebuilt PC then... that was the point I was making with that obvious joke lol... you have to compare apples to apples here...

I was joking to but for every argument about Xbox games being on PC there is a counter argument of it being good for gamers and Xbox players

 

[BANGS]

I said the experience is different on PC and I pointed out the need for two input devices as opposed to one as being one of those differences.

I also pointed out that if you want to play a competitive multiplayer game on PC, you’ll be faced with the option of either playing with a wireless keyboard in your lap or using a controller and being at a disadvantage to other PC players using mouse and keyboard.

Do you dispute that to the case?

Not at all, I have agreed to all of those points in this topic already. Again I said PC does everything xbox does and more, I never claimed they were the same experience. Only thing I would add is that you don't need to keep a KB and mouse in your lap if you find it uncomfortable, a traditional snack tray does the job just fine. I used to edit videos using my television that way in my old apartment, it was a lot of fun

My mistake for thinking you were one of the "former PC gamers" ITT claiming such minuscule differences were a "huge hassle" or a "headache"... those were the people I was referring to earlier...

 

[BANGS]

I was joking to but for every argument about Xbox games being on PC there is a counter argument of it being good for gamers and Xbox players

While that is very true, it's not good for Microsoft or the xbox brand, which is what Jim Sterling and others in this topic are trying to say when we bring it up. We're not shitting on the experience, we're just saying that if your goal is to sell xboxes, you're not doing a great job if you're putting all it's games on PC...

I didn't buy my PS4 for multiplats, I bought it for it's exclusives. Since I already had the console, I bought some more multiplats and Sony has made a ton of money off me all because Yakuza series wasn't on PC at the time. That ONE game helped Sony take alot of money from me, and Microsoft needs to keep that in mind. As it stands, I have no reason to buy an xbox...

 

[phil_t98]

While that is very true, it's not good for Microsoft or the xbox brand, which is what Jim Sterling and others in this topic are trying to say when we bring it up. We're not shitting on the experience, we're just saying that if your goal is to sell xboxes, you're not doing a great job if you're putting all it's games on PC...

Again it all depends on the angle you look at it, why do you need an xbox to play those games? you can play them on PC

or

if you have an xbox you can play anywhere and continue your game across pc or play 2 player games xbox vs pc if you own 1 copy

now look at certain games that are available on PC like Minecraft, perfect pc game but sold bucket loads on consoles and mobile devices. just because its available on multiple devices has not hurt games or consoles

 

[Thiagosc777]

it's not good for Microsoft or the xbox brand, which is what Jim Sterling...

You are going in circles with this. We have just established that not everyone wants to play on the PC. It's too much work. The only ones that seem to be affected by it are console warriors.

we're just saying that if your goal is to sell xboxes,

I'd imagine MS goal is to have a profitable business, it's no longer about only selling units of hardware since 2005.

 

[BANGS]

Again it all depends on the angle you look at it, why do you need an xbox to play those games? you can play them on PC

or

if you have an xbox you can play anywhere and continue your game across pc or play 2 player games xbox vs pc if you own 1 copy

now look at certain games that are available on PC like Minecraft, perfect pc game but sold bucket loads on consoles and mobile devices. just because its available on multiple devices has not hurt games or consoles

It certainly has hurt consoles that people can play Minecraft on mobile. That's one less game purchased on a console... That's the point.

As far as play anywhere, that's certainly a plus for people who bought the game, but it in no way compels someone to purchase an xbox.

You are going in circles with this. We have just established that not everyone wants to play on the PC. It's too much work. The only ones that seem to be affected by it are console warriors.

There is no circle. Of course not everyone wants to play on PC. That's not even close to being my point. My point is that if you play on PC, you have no reason to purchase an xbox. However if you play on PC, you still have plenty of reasons to purchase PS4 and switch...

I'd imagine MS goal is to have a profitable business, it's no longer about only selling units of hardware since 2005.

OK, so we can agree that this is bad for xbox console. Not even sure why you brought that up then...

 

[Thiagosc777]

OK, so we can agree that this is bad for xbox console. Not even sure why you brought that up then...

we're just saying that if your goal is to sell xboxes,

No, we can't agree. What is that supposed to mean then? That in 2018 the only way to measure success is to "sell xboxes"? Things like Xbox Live, gamepass, etc, don't count? So if someone buys Gears 4 and plays it on PC, it doesn't count to make the business more profitable?

 

[phil_t98]

It certainly has hurt consoles that people can play Minecraft on mobile. That's one less game purchased on a console... That's the point.

Or people can continue the game they were playing while they are on the train or bus. I honestly think it has done so well on mobile and iPads because of consoles and keep selling. Now adding cross play into the mix has made it even better

 

[BANGS]

No, we can't agree. What is that supposed to mean then? That in 2018 the only way to measure success is to "sell xboxes"? Things like Xbox Live, gamepass, etc, don't count? So if someone buys Gears 4 and plays it on PC, it doesn't count to make the business more profitable?

You're talking about something totally different that I never mentioned. I'm not talking about anything regarding Microsoft's business success or a measure of that. I'm talking about Xbox as a console brand. Xbox is currently in 3rd place this year in large part because they have no exclusives...

Or people can continue the game they were playing while they are on the train or bus. I honestly think it has done so well on mobile and iPads because of consoles and keep selling. Now adding cross play into the mix has made it even better

Yes they can, but most people aren't going to buy a console version when they already paid for a mobile version. You seem to be confusing what's good for the gamer vs. what's good for the brand. I'm not arguing any of what Microsoft is doing is bad for the gamer, I'm arguing it's bad for the xbox brand.

 

[MC Safety]

I think "little bit s-" applies more to the marketing and planning for the Xbox One and not the console itself.

A stronger argument in the "little bit s-" vein might have been the Wii U. There, the console was a failure, as was the support strategy for it.

 

[AgentP]

I'd imagine MS goal is to have a profitable business, it's no longer about only selling units of hardware since 2005.

But they make more revenue and profit in the Xbox ecosystem all things being equal. I imagine they have delusions of grandure and want to move all game sales to the MS store (out of Steam), charge for XBL Gold and Game Pass on the PC. But for now all that is Xbox only. So if they had a choice, they would skip the PC and sell 200m Xbox consoles where they control the peripherals, the store front, online monetization and get SW license fees. It's the walled garden, unlike the wild west of the PC.

 

[AdmiralMikey]

I'm a big fan of Jim Sterling and find him to be right on quite a few issues, but this video reeks of "slow news week" or "I need to take a break from season pass/loot box talk".

I get his point about the lack of exclusives, but as a whole if you somehow don't have a game console yet this gen, there's plenty of good stuff on Xbox One.

 

[phil_t98]

Yes they can, but most people aren't going to buy a console version when they already paid for a mobile version. You seem to be confusing what's good for the gamer vs. what's good for the brand. I'm not arguing any of what Microsoft is doing is bad for the gamer, I'm arguing it's bad for the xbox brand.

I think you will find by the sales numbers that Minecraft is a good example of multi buy. People have got multiple copies and cross play it. Except on PS4 at the Moment which doesn't cross play with other consoles

 

[BANGS]

People have got multiple copies and cross play it. Except on PS4 at the Moment which doesn't cross play with other consoles

Way off topic now but I gotta ask, why would someone buy multiple copies to take advantage of cross play? The whole point of cross play is to be able to play with your friends on a different platform, not to buy 2 copies for yourself on different platforms...

 

[Hendrick's]

Yes they can, but most people aren't going to buy a console version when they already paid for a mobile version. You seem to be confusing what's good for the gamer vs. what's good for the brand. I'm not arguing any of what Microsoft is doing is bad for the gamer, I'm arguing it's bad for the xbox brand.

Microsoft aren't idiots. The Xbox brand is more than a piece of hardware. Their goal is a cloud based service model available on all hardware. Does that mean they will give up on their own hardware? No, certainly not anytime soon, but it does mean that in the meantime, they will be trying to reach as many people on as many platforms as possible with their games and services. Sure, they will still have exclusive content, and have specific partnerships for now, but times are changing. The console war is dying a death of obsolescence. It's time to pack up those exclusive lists, pull up our fanboy pants, and go home.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Way off topic now but I gotta ask, why would someone buy multiple copies to take advantage of cross play? The whole point of cross play is to be able to play with your friends on a different platform, not to buy 2 copies for yourself on different platforms...

Yeah that person seems more confused with cross progression which I am all in favor of. I would gladly buy multiple copies of good games if I progress carried between platforms.

 

[NickFire]

Microsoft aren't idiots. The Xbox brand is more than a piece of hardware. Their goal is a cloud based service model available on all hardware. Does that mean they will give up on their own hardware? No, certainly not anytime soon, but it does mean that in the meantime, they will be trying to reach as many people on as many platforms as possible with their games and services. Sure, they will still have exclusive content, and have specific partnerships for now, but times are changing. The console war is dying a death of obsolescence. It's time to pack up those exclusive lists, pull up our fanboy pants, and go home.

I kind of agree with some of what you said. Like you I believe they are playing a long game and looking to transcend just the console market. But I question / don't share the belief they see no long term hardware future. Rather, I think they want to basically make their console interchangeable with PC gaming to go after Steam and Sony at the same time, while offering a tangible benefit to people inclined to play both console and PC, and reducing the attractiveness of Playstation. And they are doing a good job.

 

[Elenchus]

While that is very true, it's not good for Microsoft or the xbox brand, which is what Jim Sterling and others in this topic are trying to say when we bring it up. We're not shitting on the experience, we're just saying that if your goal is to sell xboxes, you're not doing a great job if you're putting all it's games on PC...

I didn't buy my PS4 for multiplats, I bought it for it's exclusives. Since I already had the console, I bought some more multiplats and Sony has made a ton of money off me all because Yakuza series wasn't on PC at the time. That ONE game helped Sony take alot of money from me, and Microsoft needs to keep that in mind. As it stands, I have no reason to buy an xbox...

Do you or Jim have any actual sales data to support the proposition that Xbox console sales have declined since the announcement of the Play Anywhere program?

And if you don’t (which I suspect is the case since Xbox sales have been up year over year since 2013 as far as I know), why do you believe so doggedly that sales have declined specifically as a result of Play Anywhere?

Also, do you find it as humorous as I do that people on forums lecture MS (a company with a market cap of well over 700bil) about how best to generate revenue when the company these people point to, Sony, has a market cap of only 69bil?

Seems console sales are not their focus and I’m not sure why it should be ours as MS does not appear to need to sell consoles in the numbers that Sony does to maintain the business.

No fanboy intent here but it seems to me that console sales should only matter to a gamer if the sales are so poor that third party support is flagging (as was the case unfortunately with the WiiU). The Xbox obviously does not have that issue, so why should Xbox gamers care?

They should care about more games sure, but should they really care about who gets excluded from playing and how that affects console sales?

Don’t really see much of an argument for that.

 

[Hendrick's]

I kind of agree with some of what you said. Like you I believe they are playing a long game and looking to transcend just the console market. But I question / don't share the belief they see no long term hardware future. Rather, I think they want to basically make their console interchangeable with PC gaming to go after Steam and Sony at the same time, while offering a tangible benefit to people inclined to play both console and PC, and reducing the attractiveness of Playstation. And they are doing a good job.

Possibly, but Microsoft has never been good at hardware from a market-share perspective. Just look at recent financials and you see that their hardware revenue is dropping while software and services is doing better than ever. They are a software company who dabbles in hardware and who is making the most waves in the cloud space. Like I said, I don't think they are necessarily planning to abandon their hardware, but I also don't think they have any long term plan for it ether. That could change, but following the money leads me to think otherwise.

 

[NickFire]

Possibly, but Microsoft has never been good at hardware from a market-share perspective. Just look at recent financials and you see that their hardware revenue is dropping while software and services is doing better than ever. They are a software company who dabbles in hardware and who is making the most waves in the cloud space. Like I said, I don't think they are necessarily planning to abandon their hardware, but I also don't think they have any long term plan for it ether. That could change, but following the money leads me to think otherwise.

I think we essentially agree on 99% or more. When I say they see hardware as a future merged with PC, what I mean is they see a console marketplace as something they want to grow and make interchangeable with a PC marketplace to dominate both markets. I do think they will keep selling consoles to prop up their software sales, and even streaming boxes would be consoles in this respect.

 

[thelastword]

Wow, I only read the quotes in the OP till now. Jim went in, yet all he said was true though. XBONEX debuted with Super Lucky Tales, SLT for crying out loud and they're basically just cycling the same franchises. At least PD tried something new with GT and Sony always has new franchises every gen, and for the old franchises, they mix it up,..... but Forza, Halo and Gears this gen are nothing revolutionary, just more subpar stories and nothing that's transforming these old franchises past the 360 days.....perhaps, just more lootboxes, dlc and microstransactions....

Then you round out their library with SOD2, SOT, Recore, QB, SO etc.....it's just not a great library if you want to invest in a second console. The best second console besides a PS4 is a (Couch PC, Steam BPM rig). You can play all these games at 4k 60fps unlike the XBONEX, like recore, slt etc at max quality...with much better framerates, higher AF and better settings on all the other titles... like QB etc...There's no need for an XBONEX if you have a mid gen PC GPU, because you can get all of MS's games and play it better there. I don't know how hard this is to understand. MS says it has the most powerful console, but since WINDOWS/XBOX is now one platform, the best place to play MS games is on Windows, without the slow OS, the wifi issues and all the hard resets one would have to do on XBONEX hardware. Perhaps now, it may be an ample time to just get an AMD GPU with windows, and you're set, since their GPU's are said the be the most stable by and large atm....

Other than Spiderman what else is coming in 2018/2019? Personally I hate TLOU but knowing it will be mentioned, I guarantee it will be cross gen. This current gen is just about done and I'm looking forward most to RDR2 and BF V. By the time anything amazing past those two comes, next gen will already be here. Until then, the X is where it is at. Best multiplats and Gamepass is fantastic.

So in other words, you esteem that the best games will be multiplat based on what YOU like and are looking forward to, instead of the games that will be unique, not annual franchises for the most part, but games which will be rated the best and sell tonnes to anticipating gamers????

Your personal preference has nothing to do with the market and the games that will impact a shift in what hardware is succeeding or will continue to succeed in the next two years. What Jim is talking about..... is what else do I play, when I want to take a break from the COD's, the BF's, the fortnites, in essence the multiplat games, what quality experiences are there besides. The experience of COD, BF, Farcry is the same 60fps or 30fps on PRO or XBONEX, you're not having a different experience on either console, minus more players on PS. Not even the 30+ million XBOX ONE owners have lapped up the XBONEX in droves, it's a miniscule figure towards the sum of total XBOX ONE owners this gen (maybe 3-5%) if you're optimistic. How is such a small percentage of XBONEX players from 30 million consoles to turn the tide for XBOX in the vein of "it plays better there", where it mostly has a higher resolution; In essense, it's not truthful, it's not realistic and it's not happening......

The truth is this, as a guy who has a PS4 and PC, you look at XBONEX and say...$500.00 for XBONEX????..but I bought a GPU ages ago, when you could have had a Zotac GTX 1070 for $289 on Amazon, some will say, I was able to get a 580 at MSRP ages ago and it's in my PC, my GTX 1060 I got for $200 ages ago is still in my system, I can play all these MS games on that, why spend $500.00....... Some even got the Vega 56 at MSRP at $400.00. The point is, there are a lot of decent rigs out there that performs better than XBONEX...... and you never really had to upgrade your CPU when you bought them, any old i3/i5 would be good enough with those GPU's, the only thing you did was you got a good GPU deal... and you dug in...

So yes, this is a problem for MS and not so much SONY, because Sony has UC, GOW, Detroit, Infamous, GT, Until Dawn, Gravity Rush, SFV and all the good fighters that's not dead online, Yakuza, tonnes of Japanese exclusives. Square's E3 was basically a pre-cursor/extension to Sony's showcase and the list goes on and on.....and as for your statement,...... before PS5 arrives? they have; TLOU2, Tsushima, Spiderman, Days Gone, Dreams, Concrete Genie, Lost Soul Aside, Bluepoint Game and a tonne more are coming, including lots of PC/PS4 only titles. I could name them, but I think I've listed enough, you can do your own research, as there are many exclusive titles still which will further solidify ownership or create demand for a piece of PS4 kit......

Did you miss the part where I said that it matters to me, but may not to others? I don't care about what sells systems. I care about how a machine's capabilities are catered to me. Some of us, and I know it is strange to some of you, like consumer friendly options.

Well, the place I'm standing, I've never seen a more consumer friendly piece of kit than PS4......Shareplay, Sharing games with friends, Game pics and recording on day 1, PS live and streaming on day 1, Free 2 Play is actually Free to play, no paywall. Funny enough, the game I've played the most this gen, almost regularly is crossplay on PS4 (SFV) and there are so many more on PS4, I mean truckloads.....So I personally, have a tonne of crossplay games, Guilty Gear, Blaze Blue etc...and there are much more coming too..

Take a look at this list of crossplay games...PS4 is the king of crossplay at the minute, by a huge margin too....Consumer friendly??... that it is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_that_support_cross-platform_play

 

[Justin9mm]

I have a mid tier gaming PC, One X and a PS4 Pro. I know performance wise my PC is superior. Everyone has their preferences but mine is still the console. I like having my gaming entertainment go hand in hand with my lazy ass on the couch in front of my big 4K TV without any hassles, controller in hand not having to think about anything. I switch between gaming, Netflix, TV and back to gaming some days, it's a more relaxing experience for me.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

It's hard to know how history will judge the X1, but from the perspective of gamers looking forward, it doesn't offer much of what a 'console' needs to offer: games. I'm not talking about exclusives because this is about something much simpler, which is the total number of games.

It is here where X1 loses, no questions asked. People can squabble over which racing game they like more or how they "like the new direction 343 has been taking Halo. It's really not on the decline...", but the reality is the PS4 gets dozens of games every month that the X1 doesn't. It's a numbers game, nothing more than that. Plus, add in the addition PSVR mini-platform of games and you have several dozen games/experiences that aren't even possible on the X1 currently, what with Microsoft dropping VR support and all that.

The X1 certainly serves a purpose as an entry-level PC that can play the best-looking multiplats and a handful of Microsoft exclusives. But that purpose is very much at odds with the old definition of a 'game console'. Yeah yeah blah blah "generations are dead" and Microsoft is leading the way into our all digital future. Whether that really is our future is besides the point, because for now most gamers don't want to go that route, so they've voted with their wallets and went in another direction.

 

[Lanrutcon]

How exactly do propose that I navigate to steam after boot up with just a controller? Even if you boot into big picture (which is a hassle to set up and get running properly), you’ll eventually to want to play another game you own outside of steam like like say Witcher 3 or Overwatch. How do I launch those from steam without touching a keyboard again?

Also spare me the juvenile personal insults—unless of course that’s the extent of the discourse of which you are capable.

You raise some very interesting que...wait. Google. Oh, apparently it's easy. Enable Run Steam at Startup & Start Steam in Big Picture Mode. Add whatever non-Steam game you want to the Steam launcher (found a step by step guide for all the Blizzard games. Thanks, Reddit!) and just launch it through there.

I don't get it. You seem intelligent enough (if your posts are anything to go by). Why make such an easily defeatable argument? Your questions are answered by spending 2 minutes with a search engine, or just opening the Steam settings. Maybe it's time to re-evaluate that hill you've chosen to die on? Or don't. You could slide the goal posts around a bit more, I guess...

"But can I launch the 1998 smash hit Dune 2000 with a controller? HU?! Check and mate, plebeian."

 

[phil_t98]

Way off topic now but I gotta ask, why would someone buy multiple copies to take advantage of cross play? The whole point of cross play is to be able to play with your friends on a different platform, not to buy 2 copies for yourself on different platforms...

I have rocket league on switch and xbox, I like the game. Play it mainly on xbox but if I go anywhere I can play on the switch. Also mykids like to play it and they play each other via switch and xbox. We can get back on topic now lol

 

[phil_t98]

out of interest I wonder what the sales of xbox games such as Gears is between PC and Xbox, now people saying no need to have an Xbox because you can buy the games on PC but are people actualy buying them vs PC