StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
So true.
Every TV maker has about 5-6 different models with another 3-4 sizes each. Go to Samsung's website and bet there's at least 30 spec combinations to choose from.
Pretty sure every shopper can figure it out.
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So true.
Every TV maker has about 5-6 different models with another 3-4 sizes each. Go to Samsung's website and bet there's at least 30 spec combinations to choose from.
Pretty sure every shopper can figure it out.
FrostyJ93
Member
Lets just forget it and just wait. No one's listening.
sonomamashine
Member
I don't know where to start now.
bitbydeath
Member
Don’t forget though that people thought Wii U was a controller addon for Wii which resulted in poor sales.
sonomamashine
Member
That's what happens when you call it wii U.
ResilientBanana
Member
Well they’ve been through a lot this week. I get it.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Yup.
That was Nintendo's fault.
All they had to do is call it Wii 2 and show that the games are better looking with a more powerful system right there with 360/PS3.
Instead it's called Wii U and all they seemed to do is show tablet gaming.
sonomamashine
Member
It's like Nintendo targeted the gaming community and forgot the mainstream thinking that every consumer watches E3 and folow gaming websites.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
when i bought my iphone 7, the only difference between the three different versions was the storage. not sure if the cpu or any big features have changed since then.
the ps3 and 360 both shipped with skus that had different storage, but otherwise identical specs.
this will be the first time in console history where a shittier version of a console is getting released simultaneously to scam non suspecting buyers into thinking they are getting a next gen console that no one in this thread including Lockhart's most ardent supporters would be willing to buy themselves.
Negotiator
Member
If Lockhart is a 4TF console, I do not expect it to feature HW RT. Too costly for a $299 console with a sub-$100 ($70-80) APU. There goes your feature parity.
nVidia's weakest RTX-enabled offering only has 6.5TF (RTX 2060).
It should be able to run every game at 1080p60 with traditional shaders, but it may potentially affect HW RT in terms of becoming a baseline feature for game devs.
nVidia's weakest RTX-enabled offering only has 6.5TF (RTX 2060).
It should be able to run every game at 1080p60 with traditional shaders, but it may potentially affect HW RT in terms of becoming a baseline feature for game devs.
FrostyJ93
Member
I hope it has AI upscaling like the new shield tv.
Lone Wolf
Member
Does that actually do something? Any videos on it?
FrostyJ93
Member
Lone Wolf
Member
not bad at all. Shouldn’t be an issue to add to next gen.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Graphics and textures are one thing; geometry complexity, physics systems, AI etc. are another thing and AFAIK, those don't scale nearly as easily as graphical features and textures. The real interesting stuff regarding next-gen games will be in those latter things, but if you have a super physics-intensive game that has to pair down those physics models by magnitudes for a system with lower TFLOPs, it'll almost seem like a completely different game.
This isn't an exact comparison, but picture if something like Red Faction came out on the PS1. Suppose it only looked modestly better than the PS1 version on PS2, so the graphics could be easily scaled in terms of texture, resolution etc. But the physics? Worlds difference. You'd lose out completely on the destructible environmental damage that made the game such an early hit on PS2.
That's kind of more of the worry I have with all the Lockhart talk, this early into next-gen. Graphical features might be easy enough to scale down with no big changes needed to the game's design, physics systems, A.I algorithms etc. won't scale nearly as easily and too much downscaling of those to weaker hardware could result in completely different gameplay experiences.
I'm open to being proven wrong on that worry, though. Does UE4 allow relatively easy scaling of non-graphical components? And in a way where even significant scaling won't have too big an impact on the intended gameplay experience?
EDIT: Also I know that things like physics, AI etc. are traditionally CPU-bound, but wasn't one of the chief benefits of these console APUs supposed to be to open up GPGPU-orientated programming at a massive scale? Utilizing the power of GPU compute for things besides simply graphical effects?
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
So could Lockhart actually be labeled as an Xbox One to replace their current lineup of machines?
Have the same tech as Anaconda to make cross gen games even easier to make?
Sorry if its a bad idea, too many adult beverages this evening.
Have the same tech as Anaconda to make cross gen games even easier to make?
Sorry if its a bad idea, too many adult beverages this evening.
TLZ
Banned
Anything else important past the first 5 minutes?
TBiddy
Member
Forza Motorsport, Forza Horizon, Gears of War, Halo, Sea of Thieves etc etc can be played on PC, so theres that.
They have said themselves they want to be "on every device."
Hell, their slogan is Xbox play anywhere
Again - apologies for being frank, but it does sound like you don't know anything. You can't just take a game and play it on PC, like you're suggesting.
Aceofspades
Banned
What makes your opinion more accurate than mine? elitism much? Are you doubting that PS5 will sell more? Because it will.
What is so confusing about what I said? Its not like I wrote in a different language, I basically said that the two tiers approach by MS can only work (my opinion) if Anaconda will be truly aimed at enthusiasts with outrageous Specs. Otherwise PS5 will outsell both being the bigger brand and the more attractive product.
KlickKlack
Banned
what a liar.... big fat liar.. typical for pc fanboys
only 1 example:
ANTHEM (MINIMUM)
- PROZESSOR: Intel Core i5 3570 oder AMD FX-6350.
- ARBEITSSPEICHER: 8 GB.
- GRAFIKKARTE: NVIDIA GTX 760, AMD Radeon 7970 / R9280X.
- GRAFIKKARTENSPEICHER: 2 GB.
- FESTPLATTE: Mind. 50 GB freier Speicherplatz.
- DIRECTX: DirectX 11.
And to destroy you lie completely i only need to post last steam hardware survey.... and the discussion is over.
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Racer!
Member
Im not suggesting that. No apologies needed, but please pay attention. When I said compatible, I ment in regards to game design, not that you could straight up run it from one platform to another, like backwards compatibility for example.
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TBiddy
Member
Even with your back-pedalling, it still doesn't make sense. The Xbox One is extremely different from any known PC and it's not an issue porting games back and forth. It wasn't this gen and it won't be next gen.
Why do you think that specialized hardware in a console would "f*** up Microsofts plan to be compatible everywhere. PC`s Consoles etc."?
Racer!
Member
Back pedaling? I cleared that up pages ago. I also gave examples in regards to Xbox play anywhere program. Microsoft themselves says this is what they want to do. Not sure what your problem is.
Take Cerrnys example with fast travelling. If you design your game around being able to travel at a certain speed, but your platform is too slow to do that. As a developer you then have two options. Rewrite your game completely, in which makes crossplay difficult. Or design for low min spec.
Also, you need to work on your manners boy.
KlickKlack
Banned
i will be strategically brilliant move from MS to name lockhard = xbox 5
and Scarlett = xbox 6
6>ps5
and Scarlett = xbox 6
6>ps5
Aceofspades
Banned
TBiddy
Member
I'm sure we can agree that the XB1 and any given PC is vastly different, apart from the fact they both run x86. Right? I'm also sure that we can agree that it hasn't hindered neither Microsoft or any of the 3rd party developers when it comes to releasing games on both platforms. Right?
It's not going to change in next-gen.
Racer!
Member
It has absolutely hindered both Microsoft and 3rd party developers. They say it themselves. When you start doing this cross generations, youre in trouble. Thats whats so freeing about starting fresh on a new generation. Pay attention to min spec on PC on cross platform games, its usually around 2x original xbox one spec(because the efficiency in a closed system)/tech from around the start of this generation/2013, and it have guided game design for this whole generation.
This is great for none other than corporate Microsoft. Surprised so many Xbox fans just lined up to give them money, completely clueless about the effects it actually has.
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TBiddy
Member
It hasn't hindered anything. We've seen amazing games on all platforms. That won't change next-gen. Developers are smart enough to be able to handle different specifications. They've done so for decades.
The last part of you post makes no sense and really reveals your motive behind your posts. Heck, even Sony is contemplating releasing 1st party games on to "a wider installed base". I assume you'd call Sony-customers clueless then, as well?
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Racer!
Member
Of course every business is interested in a widest install base possible, but Sony knows when to stop, when it hinders creative prosperity. Its probably because Sony as a cooperation has more of a creative dna than Microsoft. They have had a movie business, and makes both content and hardware. Microsoft was basically founded on creating a monopoly. The reason Microsoft created the Xbox brand was because of money and stopping another company from taking over the living room, not because of games. Unlike Sony/Ken Kutaragi, who had a creative vision.
Guess we will have to agree to disagree. Will be interesting to see if Microsoft launches a 4TF low end Lockart, and what will happen
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KlickKlack
Banned
All PlayStation exclusives for the next 3 year's will be also developed for ps4.....
Imtjnotu
Member
Right...
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Jason Schreier says on the latest Splitscreen podcast that PS5 launch exclusives will be PS5 only and he will do an article in the future about it. Also haven't Bluepoint already said their game is PS5 only in any case? No doubt third-party will be cross-gen for a while out of necessity.
ResilientBanana
Member
I expect the PS5 to sell more units, but it would be suicide to price the Xbox above it regardless of power. Microsoft would be smart to match the PlayStation 5’s price while also having a lower cost entry model.
But here’s another thought, if you look at the Black Friday sales numbers, one of the best selling consoles was the Xbox One SAD as it even outsold the PS4. If a lot of people are more into third-party games such as call of duty or battlefield or fortnite It wouldn’t make sense to pay anymore money Especially when you’re a parent buying for your kid.
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Mattyp
Not the YouTuber
No just back to he's usual channel talk.
There's no way the xbox launches at a higher price, I would even expect no price being announced anytime soon and them willing to take a $50 hit on their on par/similar hardware after Sony announces the price point. Gamepass and subscriptions (Ultimate) are the real money makers, get them on the ecosystem. Collecting $15 a month will recoup any amount they take a hit for with the initial purchase price.
Ar¢tos
Member
That's 2pm PT/UK... Horrible time all around the world this time.
ThaMonkeyClaw
Member
I am not expecting any kind of news at this point, but I can see them announcing a date early next year for some kind of PS Meeting/Announcement, all I know is we now have less than a year before PS5 and Scarlett will be in everyone's hands!
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Apparently not. They have that disclaimer saying no info about their next-gen plans....
Gamernyc78
Banned
They can name it whatever, it won't outsell PS5
PS3 Xbox 360 gen thy were hundreds less and had better multiplats and still were outsold by ps3 world wide almost every single month. The Sony minds hare is intense and thy earned it with their hardware and exclusives.
FrostyJ93
Member
Ah ok. Should see Ghost of Tsushima and RE3 remake at least.
This is probably the last state of play until after PS Meeting I assume.
Negotiator
Member
If the PS5 features ReRAM as its secret sauce, then I don't think that even the most powerful PCs will be able to brute force it.
It will be kinda reminiscent of the PS2/eDRAM era. Maybe Sony doesn't want to be assimilated by PCs, despite using PC-based parts (x86 CPU, GCN GPU).
I don't think so. Only 3rd parties will do that.
Sony is committed to having distinct generations and judging by that, I expect the likes of HZD2 to push the envelope in terms of AI, physics, not just graphics (which are for the most part scalable, minus HW RT).
Keep in mind that HW RT as a baseline feature means less work for game devs compared to pre-baked lighting. More hardware power vs more human labor needed. It's a trade-off.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Yeah I expect something like:
GoT trailer
RE3 reveal
Dreams release date (ShopTo leak?)
Update on WiLD if not pushed to PS5?
Then mostly filler.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I mean, they did outsell them worldwide throughout the gen, but that didn't make much any difference until towards the very end of the generation. Even with those worldwide markets 360 still had a sales lead overall and that was mainly thanks to the U.S and UK markets.
Personally I don't think either strategy is better or worst than the other. They each have their advantages and disadvantages. If you can offer similar manufacturing and distribution capacity to your rival and aim to serve many more markets as priority, you inevitably have to concede to smaller shipments per country to cover minimum amounts of demand. While OTOH, the rival can concentrate the bulk of their manufacturing and distribution for a few key markets and still easily match the demand in those key markets, especially if it'd appear demand is lower in other regions (demand for Xbox is notoriously low in Japan for example).
Sony's strategy eventually helped them pass MS in LTD sales towards the end of that gen, but MS's was the more financially lucrative*. Not just because 360 was cheaper to manufacture but also because priority distribution in only a handful of markets meant dealing with only a handful of country-specific taxes, warehouse stocking fees, and the such. That adds up over time.
*(ignoring the RROD/YLOD though)
Still hope the ReRAM stuff is possible. The cartridge stuff turning out wrong put a temporary dent on that idea, but ReRAM doesn't suffer from the (relatively) limited P/E cycle endurance limits of conventional NAND, so the cartridge idea would've likely been best if they were thinking of trying a SSG-style setup with cheaper QLC NAND, in case endurance limits were reached and they wanted a replacement.
I know that certain storage-class ReRAM can provide speeds of up to 25.6 GB/s, but I don't know what interface they're using. Since they're mainly for enterprise markets I'm assuming they use serial RapidIO, or maybe a modified DRAM interface. Sony's implementation would probably be using PCIe 4.0 since their APU is based on consumer-level AMD tech, and they've been including PCIe 4.0 support in newer processors for a while now.
Could see MS going for an SSG-type solution over NVMe PCIe 4.0, maybe working with Samsung on customized SSD built with that type of support in mind. The user could probably use external 3rd-party drives if they want but they may not be able to fully utilize the speed and bandwidth advantages unless those drives have the firmware support to do so, and that's on the manufacturer's end. This type of approach would have lower bandwidth than Sony's though (at most only half), but trade in the bandwidth & speed advantage for capacity advantage (couldn't see Sony going with more than 64-96GB of storage-class ReRAM due to costs, and using ReRAM would also affect support for conventional SSD drives to a more normalized standard, probably NVMe PCIe 4.0 between 2 GB/s - 4 GB/s maximum read performance).
Personally I kinda hope they both take these different approaches; we need SOMETHING to set the systems apart and it'd be fun to see devs maximize each setup. Sony's would favor more speed and bandwidth (and potentially, DRAM-esque page read/bit and byte-addressable write) but with smaller storage, MS's would favor still decently fast read/write performance with more conventional NAND, trading in the benefits of Sony's approach with sheer capacity advantage (basically however big a drive the Anaconda can support; guessing up to 4-8TB will be the size limits; same with PS5) using an SSG-style setup utilizing the drive as a large texture cache (assuming some portion of the drive would have to be partitioned exclusively for this purpose and not normally accessible by the user, that way that portion can be memory-mapped for game data assets. They'd probably allow devs to set a minimum partition amount but the user can allow more if they wish. Meanwhile the rest of the drive can be used for their own files and still benefit from the SSG-esque speed advantages vs. NVMe drives on PC).
The other benefit of MS's solution would be that it can, in time, be implemented into the PC space with some effort. Sony's OTOH would require storage drive makers to switch over to ReRAM, and that's just one of the big differences there. It'd also make direct PC ports of their games a bit of a challenge, but I don't think they mind that too much if streaming picks up and people can simply use PS Now to stream their games instead.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
This may all be true and we all know PS3 was more expensive to produce and thy took heavy losses but my point given the e.g. was not pointing at some Sony financial success tht Gen bcus there wasnt one as thy lost money most of tht Gen, my point was showing the mindshare and how even with the price, the issues with multiplats, shit even the online went down for months! Ppl still chose ps3. It would literally take the biggest disaster in history for Microsoft to ever outsell Playstation imo and based off facts and history. Tht ground thy gained with 360 thy basically lost. Profit margins for PS4 have been way higher this gen than Microsoft based on Financials and Sony learned their lesson with costly hardware.
World wide ps5 will be in the lead most definitely and thy might trade blows in the USA and one or two countries in Europe but thts about it.
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Darius87
Member
no to the bold part not for major studios not sure why you think so or just spread false rumors.
ResilientBanana
Member
What makes you so sure that this wont happen? Sony makes more money selling games than consoles.
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